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Malistaire, Morganthe, and Sylvia

1
AuthorMessage
Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
For those few who read my old post about these 3, think of this as part 2. For those who didn't are interested my old post is called Malistaire, Morganthe, and Sylvia relations, i suggest you search it. I heard a very good thought about why malistaire was so upset when Sylvia died i believe it was on the thread "Malistaire is not evil". As we all know he was blinded by his emotions of the early death of his wife. However, this particular post gave some vague yet fascinating insight about why he tried so hard to bring her back. Perhaps was not just about seeing her again. What i read says that Sylvia's "illness" was caused by a third person or party perhaps an old enemy seeking revenge. Those that read my old post can put 2 and 2 together by now. If you haven't read it stop right where you are as the following will result in the blowing of minds . Malistaire knew his wife's illness was the work of Morganthe... Dun Dun Dun... He was so upset for the very reason that he losing this battle would be adding lots of insults to an already bad injury. There would be 3 very bad things going on.
1. He would have to cope going on without Sylvia
2. He would have to cope with the pain/personal humiliation of losing to who he left
3.He would have to deal with very probably facing morganthe again which he does in an undead form

Then continuing back to building onto my previous ideas, lets say that morganthe had an agenda of her own and that was thrown out a window when Malistaire was removed the picture by us meddling wizards. Thus morganthe is not only crushed by losing him but must also do all of the work herself to reclaim her spell deck to resurect him but also has to go the trouble of doing that. Only to have him meet his fate second fate on xibalba. While she did succeed of getting the comet to hit xibalba she lost her "dark servent" in the proccess. So far luck is not on morganthe's side. So what's next in her chapter?

Scarlet Dragonpetal

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Well you said in your other article that Morganthe and Malistiare dated. But i am still not sure what brings you to that precisely. I mean she is older and she is older and Malistaire was a professor in Ravenwood. Morganthe mentions in the sanctum of the sun that Ambrose is a coward. She also mentions that he would try to stop her but did not expect a child. I believe this means she hates children. So why would she love Malistaire, a professor of children? And revenge could mean anything. It could Cyrus, his brother, who is owed money from Malistaire. It could be that greater undead powers from death come to get Sylvia because she is life.
I believe it is quite suspicious that the death and life professor are in love.

My theory: As death, Malistaire is not one to love the school of life. Malistaire made an elaborate plan to take down the school of life first, then the spiral. He murdered Sylvia. Now, life is no longer a functional without the legendary life professor. I believe that Malistaires actions were not caused by a motive, but the fact that he has a sinful mind. His love for Sylvia was all part of a plan to take over the spiral. Without life, his opposite, he can easily overrun wizard city. He combines the power of the fallen bosses at the end of every world, the krokinomicon, Marleybone's intelligence, the manipulation of the spirits in Mooshu, and the new darkness of Dragonspyre, with his own.
Many claim that death has an unfair advantage in the game because of its power. With all of this, he can take over the spiral. Morganthe has no foul play in this case, there is no connection at all. She is one of the many other who are insecure, scared and unconfident in the fact that they are about to die because of this power.
I also have another theory below.

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 61

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
My second theory: Malistaire and Sylvia are very happy together. One day Mallistaire met Morganthe. The two death magic people were talking and Morganthe's more sinful mind manipulated Malistaire although not against his will. Morganthe described a diabolical plan to overrun the spiral. Malistaire's new evil inside of him took action. Morganthe decides that killing Sylvia would indeed be for the best, considering she is a powerful life wizard. She also opens up the fact that she, indeed, has feelings for Malistaire. Knowing this would scar him and bring out even more of the evil in him. Morganthe's motive for Sylvia's murder is that she loves malistaire and would help the plan work more smoothly.
As expected, Sylvia's struck her husband like a match would a candle. The fire burns his soul and every good thing in his heart. The duo of the two death powers started their elaborate plan to take over the spiral.
Not knowing that children would do something about this, Morganthe and Malistaire work in separate labs in separate worlds for this plan. The children took out Malistaire, knowing nothing of morganthe. Morganthe felt the same grief that malistaire felt when sylvia died. She introduced herself at the end of celestia and continues to avenge Malistaire's death.

I disagree with you, Scarlet that Morganthe is against Malistaire, but Malistaire is definitely not an innocent person. His dying confession was a cover-up of Morganthe's plans to protect her. And what i said about dating is morganthe has feelings for Malistaire not that they did or would have dated.

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 61

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
Your second theory i really really like bunny! Its awesome, your first theory while it does kinda make sense, it just obliterates any chance that fan fictions could be written around that idea unlike others i've heard and your second theory. While not many people do write them those that do write them will be disappointed. Plus your second theory is just better. I just can't exactly put my finger on what i like about it precisely. I never took into account the chance that morganthe came after sylvia, your theory does, its probably the best i've ever heard. Believe me i read a lot of threads about this and similar topics. Do you think KI will ever say anything about if Morganthe is or was ever working with someone? IE: Most people in Azteca already know that Morganthe's Dark Servant is Malistaire.
That leaves me with a lot of unanswered questions now when it didn't really before.

Scarlet Dragonpetal

PS. Just forget my posts. I wish i could them take it down now and just give my threads on this topic to you bunny. You're better at backstories then me. Or least you're better than me.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Aww you are so kind! I know the first one wasn't that good because i never took account into Morganthe's feelings at all. I didn't think it through that much. And considering that my best school is life, i think very poorly about death. It never occurred to me that morganthe could have done this to upset mallistaire. I mean they have a lot in common and that sort have put foggy glasses on my eyes. And, no offense, that mallistaire was morganthe's dark servant is a little spoiler. And to me, doesn't exactly make sense because he was not a dark man at the start. He was a happy professor with a happy life and marriage.

And about KI, somewhat eventually I think that they will eventually let the cat out of the bag (I love idioms!) in the next world they make because we will have to defeat Morganthe at some point. Following the rules of stories, the protagonists (good guys) always defeat the antagonist (bad guy) in happy and fun stories. Unless the entire story is a tragedy story (Usually resulting in the death of a main character) then the pieces should fall into place.

Btw: what level are you scarlet?

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 63

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
Bunny i love idioms too! Sorry about the dark servant spoiler but it just kinda fit in with the topic. I can come up with so much about the teachers possibly because i have 5 other wizards i just don't list them because my fire is my main and my favorite. I have a lvl 7 death who i am currently to get to warlord in ranked pvp (like thats ever gonna happen), plus my life wizard who is currently 3/4 of the way done with mooshu and it was the re-run of mooshu that made me officially stop taking side quests forever, but my life is still kinda over powered. Running more wizards actually helps to get spoilers but it doesn't help with morganthe's storyline, luckily i remember the majority of story. Taking side quests in wizard city helps because they talk a lot about malistaire and sylvia. So the fact that i have an ice that just beat wuzard city, a storm and death in wizard city, plus a balance waiting at level 2. Here i go, blah, blah, blah i have tend to either write really short posts or really long posts and get kinda off topic but anyway. Bunny since your strongest wizard i'm gonna guess is in CL or ZF a lot about morganthe is revealed in Avalon and more of her dark servant in Azteca.

Scarlet Dragonpetal lvl 90

Mastermind
Jun 02, 2013
311
If the game itself says the story... What's the need for theories? Couldn't we just go:

Young Malistaire: I'm going to be the best death teacher ever!
Young Morganthe: Ha! I'm going to rule the spiral!
Young Malistaire: Good luck doing that. I'll join you when I pass away! ( sarcastically)

Later....

Malistaire: Oh Sylvia, isn't this going to be great? Teachers side by side.
Sylvia: Oh, yes!

Meanwhile...

Morganthe: You! Skull-head!
Sgt. Skullsplitter ( or whoever): Huh?
Morganthe: You don't like Malistaire, right? Sicken his wife!
Sgt: Ok...

Later

Malistaire: Why?????? Sylvia no!
Morganthe: Want to help me rule the spiral now?
Malistaire: Ok then.

There ya go.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Your theory is very straight forward. But the entire thing needs a motive don't you think?

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
soupwizard we make theories because KI has yet to actually tell us Morganthe's motives for taking over the spiral or why she had to revive malistaire to be her dark servant in the first place? All we know is that Morganthe is obviously trying to rule over the spiral. These are guess fun guesses about why.

Scarlet Dragonpetal

Explorer
Jun 11, 2009
74
I don't really agree with the idea of Malistaire murdering Sylvia (although it was rather shocking to read about and would be a cool twist for the story) or Morganthe having feelings for Malistaire. That would mean Morganthe is robbing the cradle. There is plenty of evidence that Morganthe is far older than Malistaire.
For one thing, Merle Ambrose fleeing Avalon was caused by Morganthe, who was his apprentice. This is important because this happened before Headmaster Ambrose founded Ravenwood. How do I know that Malistaire and Cyrus are younger than Ravenwood? Some simple myth quest dialogue that stated that Professor Drake found that, when he was young, that the best cyclops minions could be found on Cyclops Lane. Although "young" sounds vague, I prefer to believe that he is talking about his experience as a teenage student at Ravenwood School. Since he and Malistaire are twins, this would mean that it is safe to say that Morganthe would be right in the age group of their mother! One could actually compare the two. They both seem to be long-faced, both have black hair, share very light skin, appear to be the same height, have a similar sense of grandiosity and share a lust for power. But what about this would motivate Morganthe to include Malistaire? My theory is that Cyrus grew up in Wizard City (or at least was educated there), lived with his father, and told nothing or that Malistaire and Morganthe were dead. Malistaire, presumably firstborn, was raised by a nurse in Morganthe's palace and eventually became part of Morganthe's Shadow Web Army (I'm thinking Drake Cavalry :D) but eventually defected to Wizard City, married Sylvia and became a professor at Ravenwood. To bring Malistaire back to the darkness where he was born and raised, she would have to eliminate the light. Once Sylvia is out of the picture, she can lasso Malistaire back to her side of the law. A problem could arise if Malistaire ever learned this. I would say more, but I am out of letters.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
That is a very interesting theory alyahaya! Yeah i kind of take back my first theory. That was pretty rough Yet i looked up a picture of Morganthe compared to Mallistaire and see little resemblance physically. I do not see Morganthe with a long face and a larger forehead. They all have pale, pale skin, but that is about it. Not much other resemblance. But i still am not in Avalon so i don't know all that I need to know yet. But thanks for thinking it was cool! I do see your point on how minions were better when he was young, but was ravenwood founded then? And Morganthe does not seem like a cyclops, troll and minotaur person. She is more of a shadow and undead person. So i don't think that it is very possible to be indeed their mom. A key fact that would make this more believable is if:

1. She had stated her last name
2. Cyrus would have more instruction and information over what is going on.

Love is a crazy thing. It doesn't exactly make it impossible for Morganthe to not have feelings for Mallistaire. Though i do know that Morganthe is older.

Survivor
Dec 19, 2012
9
Um... When you beat Malistaire and Sylvia tells him to "Stop this madness and come home. To me.", Malistaire gives himself up to death and Morganthe brings him back knowing that he can help her, which he did in Xibalba. And Morganthe's reason for taking over the Spiral is that she is a power-hungry sociopath.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Colrey, we like to make theories about this topic and we are discussing the theories for the connection between Morganthe, Mallistaire, and Sylvia. We are all well aware that Morganthe is a power hungry psychopath. And we are well aware that Mallistaire comes back. We are looking at the picture of the past. We are looking for motives and love/family connection in the characters. Plus this whole thing is fun! And i am a little confused at what you are trying to tell me...

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Mastermind
Jun 02, 2013
311
Scarlet Fever on Jul 24, 2013 wrote:
soupwizard we make theories because KI has yet to actually tell us Morganthe's motives for taking over the spiral or why she had to revive malistaire to be her dark servant in the first place? All we know is that Morganthe is obviously trying to rule over the spiral. These are guess fun guesses about why.

Scarlet Dragonpetal
Alright. Expansion time.

Why Morganthe wants to rule the Spiral:

Morgan ( I'll do that for short) was playing with her friends as a very young child. And then her friend Sylvia threw a cupcake at her face. Morgan cried and got angry. Se then vowed to rule the spiral when older.

Why Morgan wants Malistaire:

Morgan and Malistaire ( can't think of a shortened version) were friends, but Malistaire didn't have much want to rule the Spiral. Though he did have a bit of of intrest.

Why Morgan revived Malistaire, and why he decided to go with it:

When Morgan got Sylvia sick for revenge from Kindergarten, Malistaire showed more darkness in his heart and was willing to do evil things to get her. When he failed and was defeated, Morganthe revived him, knowing he wanted to help rule much more, and to get revenge on us.

Done.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
SoupWizard64 on Jul 30, 2013 wrote:
Alright. Expansion time.

Why Morganthe wants to rule the Spiral:

Morgan ( I'll do that for short) was playing with her friends as a very young child. And then her friend Sylvia threw a cupcake at her face. Morgan cried and got angry. Se then vowed to rule the spiral when older.

Why Morgan wants Malistaire:

Morgan and Malistaire ( can't think of a shortened version) were friends, but Malistaire didn't have much want to rule the Spiral. Though he did have a bit of of intrest.

Why Morgan revived Malistaire, and why he decided to go with it:

When Morgan got Sylvia sick for revenge from Kindergarten, Malistaire showed more darkness in his heart and was willing to do evil things to get her. When he failed and was defeated, Morganthe revived him, knowing he wanted to help rule much more, and to get revenge on us.

Done.
Ok, now you are being a little off topic. Although funny, Morganthe is much older that the drakes, and she was Ambrose's apprentice in Avalon at the time, making it near impossible for them to all be in school together. The cupcake thing was funny though!

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
Ok this is a serious comment but if someone stole my cupcake I'd probably hold an eternal grudge against them too...

Scarlet Dragonpetal

Mastermind
Jun 02, 2013
311
bunnyukti on Jul 31, 2013 wrote:
Ok, now you are being a little off topic. Although funny, Morganthe is much older that the drakes, and she was Ambrose's apprentice in Avalon at the time, making it near impossible for them to all be in school together. The cupcake thing was funny though!

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33
Ok. More fixing.

Morganthe was at one time a nanny for Malistaire, and she liked him very much. Morganthe also ended up babysitting Sylvia, and that's when she threw a cupcake at her face. Why she babysat? Before she was Amborse's helper, she had no other jobs to do.

End. I'm pretty sure there are no loopholes now.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
SoupWizard64 on Jul 31, 2013 wrote:
Ok. More fixing.

Morganthe was at one time a nanny for Malistaire, and she liked him very much. Morganthe also ended up babysitting Sylvia, and that's when she threw a cupcake at her face. Why she babysat? Before she was Amborse's helper, she had no other jobs to do.

End. I'm pretty sure there are no loopholes now.
Well, morganthe was never really the child care person do you think? And the drakes had parents you know. We all know you are just fooling around.

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Mastermind
Jun 02, 2013
311
bunnyukti on Aug 1, 2013 wrote:
Well, morganthe was never really the child care person do you think? And the drakes had parents you know. We all know you are just fooling around.

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33
Even more fixing!!

Expanded why Morganthe decided to be a nanny and such:

As I said, there were no other jobs. Though, she did not like it too much. We all know she has a lot of greed, so when she saw an ad made by the Drakes for a nanny to babysit Malistaire and Cyrus ( the parents went on vacation to some Hawaii themed world) the money that would be payed was over the roof! So she took the job. Same thing happened for Sylvia.

Now you see! It's definitely a perfect theory now. Wait! You're tricking me into making me make a theory when I said in the first post we didn't need one! Argh, foiled again by the trickery of flaws.

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Don't get upset. We would like to hear your ideas, but not really like that silly. We want the logic from the game to support what you write. Keep on posting!

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33

Explorer
Jan 12, 2012
59
Ok, we know that Morganthe was around before Ravenwood, and it's likely that at the time before Ravenwood, Wizard City was undiscovered. That mean's that Cyrus' comment about Cyclops lane WOULD make him and Malistaire younger than Morganthe. It also probably took time to build Cyclops Lane and the other streets. So Malistaire and Morganthe could be SEVERAL generations apart if they're related. It could be that Malistaire is Morganthe's distant descendant and we're fighting the original evil now.
Hunter Spellstone lvl 40 Master

Survivor
Jun 10, 2011
27
Malistare and Morganthe? No. Sylvia? Definitely No. She died as a good wizard. Morganthe was the one that started all this evil madness and brainwashed Malistare and brought him to evil. Everyone was good in The Spiral except for Morganthe, Who started all the evil, brought Malistare, who was very sad because of his wife's death, to evil. Almost like Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader in Revenge of The Sith.

Richard AshWeaver Level 28 Wizard

Survivor
Jan 11, 2013
34
XxArcaneVolcanoxX on Jul 28, 2013 wrote:
I don't really agree with the idea of Malistaire murdering Sylvia (although it was rather shocking to read about and would be a cool twist for the story) or Morganthe having feelings for Malistaire. That would mean Morganthe is robbing the cradle. There is plenty of evidence that Morganthe is far older than Malistaire.
For one thing, Merle Ambrose fleeing Avalon was caused by Morganthe, who was his apprentice. This is important because this happened before Headmaster Ambrose founded Ravenwood. How do I know that Malistaire and Cyrus are younger than Ravenwood? Some simple myth quest dialogue that stated that Professor Drake found that, when he was young, that the best cyclops minions could be found on Cyclops Lane. Although "young" sounds vague, I prefer to believe that he is talking about his experience as a teenage student at Ravenwood School. Since he and Malistaire are twins, this would mean that it is safe to say that Morganthe would be right in the age group of their mother! One could actually compare the two. They both seem to be long-faced, both have black hair, share very light skin, appear to be the same height, have a similar sense of grandiosity and share a lust for power. But what about this would motivate Morganthe to include Malistaire? My theory is that Cyrus grew up in Wizard City (or at least was educated there), lived with his father, and told nothing or that Malistaire and Morganthe were dead. Malistaire, presumably firstborn, was raised by a nurse in Morganthe's palace and eventually became part of Morganthe's Shadow Web Army (I'm thinking Drake Cavalry :D) but eventually defected to Wizard City, married Sylvia and became a professor at Ravenwood. To bring Malistaire back to the darkness where he was born and raised, she would have to eliminate the light. Once Sylvia is out of the picture, she can lasso Malistaire back to her side of the law. A problem could arise if Malistaire ever learned this. I would say more, but I am out of letters.
ok, and who's to say that morganthe's not malistaire's mother? it never stated her last name, maybe that was to hide something. their appearances seem to be very similar.

Defender
Jul 03, 2012
126
Hey guys its me Time warped who started the forum- Malistaire is not evil!
I just wanted to say that the spiral seems more like a hateful love story.

Malistaire, Sylvia, and Morg. were probably all friends when they were younger, Morg admitted her feelings to Mali, Mali rejected her and started dating Sylv. and Morganthe started to study more into Death magic and became the "Umbra Queen"
As we all know, Spiders poison their prey...
Morganthe is a Death student, She is a spider person, Death and spiders have poison...
Morganthe more then likely poisoned Sylvia and killed her hoping mali would love her due to the loss of his wife. But after realizing what she had done, she fled the scene. As described by my post- Malistaire is not evil! -he had gone through a mental breakdown and tried to push it off on the dragon titan to bring his wife back. That failed, then at Xibalba he helped Morgy just to get revenge on us for destroying him. Then he failed again. And I'll say the rest after the next chapter.

- Time

Explorer
Mar 10, 2010
79
Very interesting hunter! Just one little thing. If cyrus is a descendent of Morganthe, then Cyrus would know what is going on, don't you think?

Amber Rainbowstone - - level 64

Sierra Hex - - level 33

1