Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Losing to Progress the Story?

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 19, 2010
34
I've been playing Wizard101 for quite a while now and I must say it is a wonderful game! One thing I particularly enjoy about the game are the story arcs. I feel as though the story arcs have been increasing in quality with every new world; however, I think there might be a way to make the stories even better. In my opinion, the fact that our wizards, according to the story of the game at least, defeat every single foe they come up against without ever tasting defeat is a bit unrealistic, especially considering how much more powerful and older their enemies are. I think if being defeated in a duel was a requirement of the story in order to progress, that would add quite a twist to the game. Besides just being realistic, I think there are a few interesting potential plot twists that KI could create that would just make the story of the game even better.

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
968
That is an interesting suggestion.

I'm not sure how it could be implemented with the current way the game is structured.

How many times has a boss threatened to eat, enslave, or do something vile to our wizard if we do not defeat said boss in a battle? Courageously our wizard runs headlong into the challenge only to face the wobbly nausea of defeat and the teleportation to the commons area of that world.

Once we've regained our health we head back to that boss fight and keep trying until we do defeat him. That's the way the mechanics are set. It's a linear game.

For there to be a boss that would require us to be defeated to advance, the boss would have to be weak enough that losing is the challenge. The duel would have to be set up in such a way that we could NOT lose simply by refusing to cast any spells. Coding something like that would be a challenge.

So although it's cool idea, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Steven Ghoststalker
97

Defender
Dec 26, 2016
132
I agree. I found it kind of odd that a (based on the appearance of our character models) 13 year old could defeat Morganthe, a woman who at 1% of her power was able to drain a whole lake and then use magic she barely understood to redirect a comet, so easily.

I mean we did kind of lose at the end of Azteca, but it barely counts because we still beat three of the minions and the fourth one just fell through the hole.

It would be interesting if this is how the fight with Grandmother Raven goes down and this is what leads to Arc 4. Also would make sense considering that she's the creator of the Spiral, assumingly at full power unlike Grandfather Spider.

Survivor
Jan 19, 2010
34
Area51Alien on Jun 20, 2018 wrote:
That is an interesting suggestion.

I'm not sure how it could be implemented with the current way the game is structured.

How many times has a boss threatened to eat, enslave, or do something vile to our wizard if we do not defeat said boss in a battle? Courageously our wizard runs headlong into the challenge only to face the wobbly nausea of defeat and the teleportation to the commons area of that world.

Once we've regained our health we head back to that boss fight and keep trying until we do defeat him. That's the way the mechanics are set. It's a linear game.

For there to be a boss that would require us to be defeated to advance, the boss would have to be weak enough that losing is the challenge. The duel would have to be set up in such a way that we could NOT lose simply by refusing to cast any spells. Coding something like that would be a challenge.

So although it's cool idea, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Steven Ghoststalker
97
Yeah I think it would be tricky to add this feature, but I can think of at least three ways it could become a game mechanic.

The first possibility is, like you said, to make losing to the boss a challenge. This, of course, would be very hard to do, and probably creates a dead end if our wizards win. I think most people would not enjoy having to face a boss again because they won.

The second option I'm thinking of is to simply allow our wizards to achieve victory over their opponent in the duel, and then to cut to some sort of cinematic where our wizards are defeated.

The third possibility is to make the enemy impossible to defeat. The boss fight would go like any normal fight, you deal damage to the boss, heal yourself, cast blades and traps etc. However, the boss could just have too much health and deal too much damage so that our wizard has no chance at victory. Maybe after our opponents reaches below a certain amount of health they begin a cheat that swiftly defeats our wizards. Another way of accomplishing this is to allow the wizards to "defeat" the boss, but the boss respawns, and proceeds to begin a new cheat, or cast far more powerful spells. Similar to how Undying Malistaire respawns with more health after you "defeat" him, only difference is the boss would have to become too powerful and literally impossible to defeat once our wizards reach that point in the battle.

Delver
Oct 18, 2009
244
The closest thing we have to this that I can think of is when we manage to "defeat" grandfather spider but then he just kinda nopes out of there with Melori. And there has been two times where the villain has just fallen into the void because plot convenience (still expecting to see Morganthe smack into an Arcanum window one of these days, who knows maybe she's part of the solution to the whole end of the spiral issue)

Delver
Mar 10, 2015
218
I don't think the game can handle the nemesis system. It would be nice but knowing the game is 10 years olde (see what I did) I don't think the game could handle it.

Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1266
Haven't you heard of the idea of a "Chosen One"? They tend to be a bit Over powered by nature. That being said- there are times where we have lost. If you lose in your duel against the Rat- the entire Spiral is doomed and the Borealis Golem destroys the Sky Anchor. Kinda sucks to think that because you were unable to make the cut it's the end of the world- your punishment? You get the wonderful privilege of having to complete Rasputin again and again in some sort of Team Up Purgatory posting in the message boards asking for help, but ultimately just stuck repeating that horrifying instance over and over.

Also we lose in Azteca- it's doomed. They comet is going to strike; the world is at it's end. Your punishment is shards of the Comet will continue to rain down upon Azteca because you were unable to alter it's course. How many Aztecosaur lives will suffer because you were unable to defeat the challenge presented to you?

Explorer
Dec 08, 2010
81
**Warning: This reply contains spoilers**

There is at least one part in the second story arc where you ARE somewhat defeated. In the final dungeon of Azteca, Xibalba, the final fight has an enemy (who I shall not name as I do not wish to spoil ALL of this to those who do not know) that survives the encounter perfectly intact, and swears to destroy you right then and there. However, they get carried away on a rock that broke off of the comet just before their spell can be cast. This could still be considered a victory, as you were not defeated, but there's more to this. Late in the dungeon, you find out that the comet cannot be stopped and Azteca will be destroyed. Upon exiting, you realize that this is true; the world is beginning to burn around you as an unstoppable force slowly obliterates it. You lost.

Survivor
Nov 12, 2012
12
It might be kinda cool to end up losing a battle, and the story goes on. Like how some bosses cheat cast -90% tower shields, except they do that before you attack every time, or how Macdeath has a -100% aura.

Also, having some sort of world experience heavy destruction because of this would add a different element to the game, and add to the lore of the story. Feeling like you need to rescue (for example) Wizard City from an enemy that is sinking buildings into the ground and making grass decay makes you want to continue to battle, and want to continue in the story