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Levels beyond grandmaster

May 23, 2009
Daany2 wrote:
What about after Grandmaster is Professional at level 60 then at level 70 Professor and at level 80+ is Legendary

I'm just curious. Do you really see a Professional, or Teacher (Professor) of Martial Arts (Usually where you find "Grandmasters") Higher then the one and only Grandmaster of that particular discipline?

Apr 26, 2009
Most of you had some great things to say. Although I agree new content should be more difficult, I also agree there should be no cap on lvling at all. Part of any game is to have a goal or an objective. If goal or objective is met, game is over. Putting a cap on lvling and reaching that goal, in essence, ends the game for most people. Reaching higher lvls is an objective for most people and is also rewarding. I don't believe that should be the sole objective for the game but needless to say when I reach a new lvl (at the moment I'm capped) there is a feeling of success. If PvP, and the fairness of that is of an issue, it should be a simple matter to match with close levels so that all does not seem unfair. Besides, we've fought bosses solo with lots more HP than we had and succeeded why could that not be the case in PvP.

This is just my opinion, but I would like to see the lvl cap raised or taken away altogether.

Scarlet Song
Grandmaster Sorcerer

Jul 17, 2008
i am a lvl 50 storm wizard and i think that there should be higher lvls like lvl62 warlord in grizzleheim

Jan 23, 2009
mg9189 wrote:
I don't think you need more levels. You can get more powerful without leveling up. I think that KI could release more worlds faster if the level caps remained the same and just got more creative with the spells we already have. Adding higher level spells must delay development on the grounds of what is fair, etc.

Okay might i add that if you are not allowed to go beyond grandmaster level, you have no reason to play beyond DS. Honestly you can not earn new training points because you can not level up. Any grandmaster who has been a grandmaster for longer than a day knows this. The only thing you can do is acquire drops and gold. So new spells are out of the question. And even if you can buy new equiptment with higher health you can never be more powerful than any other grandmaster that has just reached that level and with a few crowns can buy the same equiptment.

That is not fair.

I find that many of the people claiming that there should be a level cap are NOT grandmasters and therefore can know what being stagnate as one means. The object of any game is challenge. If this game just offers new ways to fight again it is a new version of tick tac toe. It gets old quick as did the housing. A nice idea but only until you have run out of things to farm.

Otherwise you have a trophy case full of stuff and nothing else that is practical. You have all the swords, all the best equiptment and you still are forced to repeat the same quests once you are done.

I am not sure why this appealing to anyone but apparently there are those who find new quests to fight without reward a good thing.

However, I would never work anywhere when there is no opportunity to grow. Hence if caps are not lifted I would find another challenge in another game. Period.

If KI wants to spend time trying to get new wizards to make up for the ones that leave due to boredom, then fine. However, eventually the shine will wear off.

I will say this for the last time. A permanent level cap may please those who have not reached Grandmaster yet. But they too will eventual become bored with fighting for no experience points.

You can leave the title but the levels can not simply freeze or there is no reason to continue after that.

Dec 21, 2008
Quizzical wrote:
(second post made necessary by the 10000 character limit)

To address the comments on this thread more specifically:

kobekopy86 wrote:
If you believe that, Quizzical, then what would be the sense of getting any more experience if you can't even level after being a grandmaster?

Why should there be a point to getting more experience? If you don't like the content, but only play for the sake of getting experience points, then you don't like the game and are wasting your time leveling up in a game you don't like.

I never said I didn't like the content. I enjoy learning about the storyline and doing the quests.

Feb 15, 2009
The problem is with Grizzlehiem and levels beyond grandmaster is, well you defeated Mallistair right? Well he was defeated so where is the trouble? Wouldn't everything be over? Will there be a new evil villian of some sort? I dont get the purpose of any of this. But what the heck do I know? I am only a magus pyromancer!!

Dec 15, 2008
well heres my opinion. i used to play Toontown but the problem with that game was that once you did your last task it ended and you couldent do any tasks to move ahead. so i think that an online game should keep moving or else the players will have nothing to do and stop playing like i did. think about it. would you like to do something for no reason? on toon town your reward was some thing like having a big head. thats why i like wizards. it keeps you on your toes.

Apr 24, 2009
See Quizzical my whole post was in a sarcastic mode if you had not figured that out but of course why would you want to go past 50 when you are content with being Grandmaster and not getting much of anything at that level? Yes, you can get housing stuff but eventually sooner or later you will fill all three houses and your dorm up and then what next? You cant level and you cant get any more spells or training points so once you hit 50 and finish DS than what next? We dont much more about Grizzleheim than what they have talked about in the announcement. They need to give us more info on what the storyline is going to be for GH like is are we going to save them from the Ghost of Malistaire or what? What exactly are we getting more of for GH? Besides the obvious: quests, housing stuff, houses, etc. People have been asking certain questions about GH on the message boards but KI has not gone into any more further details on GH than what they have already put in the news.

Dec 15, 2008
I agree with Daany2. I'm only a level 29 almost 30 and I would love to be legendary. It will take a long time for me though :-D

Sep 19, 2008
Actually it's a good opportunity for KI to have the best of both worlds. Since they now have a very large subscriber base, it's possible to produce multiple worlds that can be solved in parallel yet still act as gateways to new content.

You NEED a throttle to new content because exposure to new content keeps the gaming experience fresh and that keeps the monthly subscriptions pouring in. You DO NOT want to allow your players to be able to complete too much content in parallel because it will dampen the engagement. New content DOES NOT EQUAL new meshes and skins (although they represent a big portion of "New").

Also, those optional zones are among the coolest things you can do in the game. They add an of suspense that many other areas are lacking.

Also, the point of leveling up is to show off :D . I WANT to look awesome and powerful as I stroll around with level 45+ equipment. I want to inspire other players with more and more awesome spell effects.

Basic game theory demands the player get tougher and tougher obstacles with bigger and better rewards. In fact, this can NEVER end. I expect in 4-5 years to be seeing level 100 wizards and it won't effect balance at all. So I can single shot a 15th level elite when I'm 100th level? So what? The rewards for doing so will be so minuscule that I wont' be bothering, unless I'm interested in the story or some nice trinket for the house.

So yes, let's make sure level cap is moved up while also branching out with more content that is optional / hard.

And yes, KI could release 2-3 worlds in each band of max range. For example, the next two releases would be level 45+ but releases 3-6 would allow for 55th levels.

But if they intend to keep the level cap at 50th, well then I'm afraid we're gonna see subscriptions peak in just a few more months and eventually taper off.

May 25, 2009
How about every time you fully complete a world, your personal level cap gets raised by ten levels?

Feb 24, 2009
The problem with this is what about the wizards who finished the extra quests in ds getting no extra experience. But i also do think this is a good idea.

Dec 31, 2008
plz ppl reply to this

this is my and my cousins idea

there should be levels up to lvl 60 and the 60th level should be called teacher of (type of wizard you are right here)and you get all the spells in your class and you can teach everyone your spells like a lvl 41 storm wizard doesnt want to go all the way back to wizard city when he's about to lvl up and fight malistare with his friends he could text his friend thats a teacher of storm and you can teach ppl the storm spells and stuff i think that should be your last teacher quest spell and your last teacher quest spell gives you a spell called teaching and you can use it outside of battle and it puts the teaching icon above your head and there should be a new button thats says (learn spells) when you click on them and the teacher that gives you this quest is merle ambrose and to finish this quest you have to beat all the teachers in ravenwood the balance teacher in krokotopia and the death teacher in nightside this should give you at least 2 housing items 700 gold and 3,000 experiance but no spell when you talk to merle ambrose to turn it in he gives you the one that the reward is the teaching spell and it says you have to beat merle ambrose in the arena he tells you to meet him in grizzleheim and to the commons in grizzleheim and then you have to beat merle ambrose then when you do go back to wizard city commons and he gives it to you and 3,845 experiance the teaching spell and 2 housing items and 1,000 gold and another quest and a special hat called the hat of the past the next quest he gives you is to teach at least 5 new students and when you do he tells you to talk to bratleby but when you go to bartleby his mouth is gone and there is stairs leading to his past eye and your hat lets you go inside his past eye socket and when you do you go back in the past when malistare was taking the eye and when you beat him a second time when you go back to merle ambrose he give you 1 housing item 3,500 experiance and 400 gold with your final school staff

thats the end of my idea

taylor windpetal
master of storm
lvl 48

Dec 28, 2008
In response to Quizzical's idea that leveling shouldn't be raised, I already know I won't buy the game again if I don't get any XP in the new world.

I mean, pointless much?
Learning about the game and it's past is fun and all, but it's a GAME, and I do it for ENJOYMENT. And I want enjoyment by leveling up my character to level 60, 70, 80, 90, even 100. It'll just be a lot more fun getting new spells and leveling up then just getting new spells and not seeing that number rise.

Besides, if games would never raise the level cap we would all be stuck at level 1 getting every kind of gear.

Lvl 50+ gear goes to 50+, Lvl 35+ goes to Lvls 35+, etc,. If we were stuck at lvl 1 we'd all have the same EVERYTHING because gear wouldn't be restricted to lvl *insert #*. So basically from the point when you started you'd be stuck as you were for the entire game.

Which would be the same for DS. I don't want to be stuck at lvl 50 for the remainder of the game. From the beginning of the world I would autmatically have access to ALL the clothes and other gear that I shouldn't have access to and that I didn't earn.

And there would be NO motivation. If you don't get xp what's the point of the game? Do stuff for other people for free? Save the world and get nothing back as thanks or gratitude?

The storyline is amazing, but a story ceases to be amazing when it takes something that was core to it's success. With a story, if you decide you're not going to use Grammar or anything remotely correct with punctuation, capitalization, or coherence, well, obviously it's not going to make any sense and you're not going to sell any of it.

Same with a game. Cut out something essential such as leveling and XP, all of a sudden you're not selling anything and the game will cease to exist.

It's just not good buisnes sense to cut something that was a major part of the game. Besides, if I ONLY wanted to do the game for it's stroyline I would just go on the FORUMS and look it up.

Part of a game is that you get to experience things, such as learning new things and getting STRONGER.

Some people play to get stronger, some people play to save the world, some people play to get famous for dueling and fighting. All 3 of these options involve getting stronger so you can be better at fighting.

Plus, everytime you level up you get more health. I don't want to be stuck at 2,500 whilst facing (on a regular basis, I'm sure) a monster with 10-20k+ in health.

/really long post

Jan 20, 2009
I started reading this thread with the mentality that the elvel cap should be raised, because that's what games I'm familiar with have done in the past (Everquest and WoW, primarily).

I've come to agree with everything that Quizzical has said (in both threads), however, and I find no fault in any of his arguements.

Aug 30, 2008
Quizzical wrote:
Sojourna wrote:
Really I don't understand your logic.

However, for as long as your post was I beleive that you have one main reason to keep the level the same. So that you can some day be equal to and posibly but king of pvp.

Instructions for sensible online forum posting:

1. Read the post to which you're replying.
2. Understand the post to which you're replying.
3. Type and post your reply.

Do not skip steps 1 and 2, as you just have.

I've made, by my count, ten arguments against increasing the level cap. Seven are in the other thread to which I linked, one new one in my first long post here, and two new ones are in replies to other posts. Of those ten, one is a pvp argument, one is something abstract that most people probably wouldn't appreciate but I would, and eight are mostly or purely PvE arguments.

Perhaps the most important argument is to allow for challenging PvE content. I've made that one in considerable detail both on this thread and the other one to which I linked, and either you think it's a purely PvP argument or else you skipped it twice and would skip it again if I rehashed it here, so I won't.

The next most important argument is that leaving the level cap untouched makes grouping much easier. Suppose right now that you want to group for Counterweight West. In order to find someone else who also needs that instance, out of the hundreds of quests in the main quest lines, you need to find someone who has done exactly as many of them as you have. Someone who has done one main storyline quest fewer than you won't have access to the quest for it. Someone who has done one such quest more than you has already done it. The only other way to get a group is dragging someone along for an hour and a half instance who doesn't need it, has no interest in doing it again, and is really only coming along to help you out.

Compare that to how grouping works out in Guild Wars. Let's suppose that I want to do Nundu Bay in hard mode. A large fraction of the players who have played the game very long will have access to the mission. A large fraction of the players will not have done that particular mission in hard mode, or if they have done it on one character, will have another character that hasn't done it. Thus, a large fraction of the players in the game could group with me for that particular mission and gain from it just like I would. If, rather than saying, I want to do this particular mission in hard mode, I instead say, I want to do some mission in hard mode, but don't particularly care which one, if I can find someone else interested in doing hard mode missions, there's probably one that we both still need. This makes it easy to find a group, without having to drag someone along with no interest in the mission at hand.

What's the difference? In Wizard101, you have to do the main storyline quests in a fixed order. In Guild Wars, there are a lot of ordering restrictions on content in easy mode, but once you've beaten everything in easy mode, you can do stuff in hard mode in whatever order you like. It's not something peculiar to Guild Wars, either, but rather, is common to games that don't put an implied order on the content. When I played Puzzle Pirates and wanted to go pillaging, people wouldn't say, I don't have access to that area of the ocean yet, or I've already done it. A ship captain needs to have maps to where he wants to go, but apart from that, anyone can freely go pillaging anywhere in the ocean, and without worrying about repeating content.

If you leave the level cap alone, there doesn't have to be an implied order of the content that assumes you're at the level cap. If you constantly raise the level cap so that nearly everything assumes you are below the level cap, then there is a strongly implied order on the content. Even if you got stuck on Krokotopia and the game let you skip to Marleybone, you'd only be immediately stuck on Marleybone, because you're too low level for it. It will take a while to build up a lot of content at the level cap, but it's best to start now.

So if you think that I only care about PvP, then could you please explain what that has to do with PvP? The two most important reasons to leave the level cap alone aren't even relevant to PvP. That a fixed level cap produces better PvP is a good side effect, but not the main reason.


I think you're confusing "don't change the level cap" with "don't add new content". They're two very, very different issues. I'm all in favor of adding new content as it is ready. Add new worlds with new spells, new types of mobs, new equipment, new quests and so forth. Just leave the level cap at 50 when you do. The new content can and probably will be better that way.

really i think you should stop trying to look smart you aren't gonna win against all the millions of people who play this game your so called logic makes sense to nobody here and we already know why the cap should be raised levels,difficulty etc

ps seriously you need to learn to get to the point nobody likes page long posts

Jul 19, 2009
i just think they need to add more worlds is all and add more mission although i find it sad that we no longer get any more spells i always looked forward to another spell why not add new spells for grandmasters to achieve

Jun 08, 2008
just my 2 crowns.
i have been playing since the beta days, and have been a grandmaster for over a year, i for one would love to see the lvl cap raised, there are quests i haven't done because of the cap. there's no point in doing them when all i get is some gold [ i can get that just opening chests ]. new worlds need to come out so the cap can get raised, Not new houses or mounts, they're not any type of challenge for a wizard, the way its set up now once you make grandmaster, you've pretty much finished the game with nothing left to do but the same old boring stuff [farm,make a new wizard, etc.] over and over. Raise the lvl cap so i can get rid of that solid green xp bar, i'd rather be able to work at filling it up and gaing to a new lvl then trying to decide which house or mount i want,
i for one am becoming very bored with the game, the challenge and fun of the game is fading away, we need to be challenged and houses and mounts are not.

Oct 21, 2009
Jun 29, 2009
wizardq32 wrote:
really i think you should stop trying to look smart you aren't gonna win against all the millions of people who play this game your so called logic makes sense to nobody here and we already know why the cap should be raised levels,difficulty etc

Not quite as rehearsed as Quizzical’s arguement, but certainly voiced the opinion of many within the game that may not come to the forum to voice an opinion. They just win the game and park their subscriptions until KI levels the game up.

On the Side: Quizzical - From your argument, the world should only offer a 6th grade education and then off to work and marriage we go. Just eliminate all that unnecessary education beyond 6th grade, this way we are all on even footing. While that is a perfect plan for some, it is not a good recipe for all, and does not it work for any society‘s future or well being. Nor will it work for KI.

My vote goes to leveling up the game. Quit catering the Sniveling PVP Society. Tell them to make grands in the school they "think" is so strong (as you did numerous crafters wanting to make cards in other schools) so they learn that all schools have strengths and weaknesses. Bring back stun to those that quested and earned this spell (vs. the wholesale elimination of its effectiveness in the game). And, where is my gear that protects me from my own school spells. Even monsters on the streets of Wizard City have better shielding than a grand master! Boy that cheapens the grand master standing. While fun to wear, but not too fun to battle against the Warlord's 35% overall shielding, come on KI get real here and stop catering to this group.

Mar 15, 2009
steveheffner wrote:
Quizzical, very interesting points you made. (yes it takes time to actually OMG read, man who reads anymore... /sigh).

Although I would say that in time not today not tomorrow not the next addons but eventually they will increase the level cap. How much, and when no one knows but it will eventually happen. If I was to guess I would say in a year at BEST because like you pointed out the more levels there are the more of a grind it is to get to the top and that isn't what most folks call fun. As it is now I am really enjoying this game, the quests are really funny (even going through 2nd time). The only thing I really HATE about this game is simply that I have to grind bosses to get a drop, and I don't mean kill then 3 or 5 times, I mean kill them over 30 times to get one item and Oh please don't mention about the bosses that have a gauntlet of mobs to go through before you can even get to him to find out you have to do it again.
Yeah, it's like the labyrinth. You want vladimir's sword but first you have to spend about 2 hours just getting through the other bosses. That just makes the sword not worth it.

Mar 15, 2009
Quizzical wrote:
Why should there be levels beyond grandmaster? Raising the level cap opens all sorts of cans of worms, and there's no need to go there. It's better to just add additional content that assumes that players are already at level 50 and will stay there.
There should be an increase in lvl cap. I mean take me for example, i am already a grandmaster but i liked the content and want to level up more. If you just became a grandmaster there is really no point in going on if KI won't increase the level cap. It would get boring and nothing to do except PvP and some people rarely do that. So what point is there?

Jun 11, 2009
May 09, 2009
kobekopy86 wrote:
I've got an idea for levels beyond grandmaster.
I think that there should be ranks like rank 1 grandmaster or something. The ranks could go up to rank 10 grandmaster.
Each rank is a few levels long and at each rank, you get a higher max pips.
So a rank 1 grandmaster would have a limit of eight pips in battles, rank 2 would get nine and so on.
Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

YA that would be a awesome thing to do! but i think that in pvp even rank 10 grandmasters should only have the standered 7 pips to make the game fair.

Aug 29, 2008
conorjak7 wrote:
kobekopy86 wrote:
I've got an idea for levels beyond grandmaster.
I think that there should be ranks like rank 1 grandmaster or something. The ranks could go up to rank 10 grandmaster.
Each rank is a few levels long and at each rank, you get a higher max pips.
So a rank 1 grandmaster would have a limit of eight pips in battles, rank 2 would get nine and so on.
Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

YA that would be a awesome thing to do! but i think that in pvp even rank 10 grandmasters should only have the standered 7 pips to make the game fair.
I don't like this way it should be continuing levels like 50 to 60 and so on one by one not ranks we already have an arena system we need something for our wizards