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Feedback Friday 7-26-13

Another Friday means another Feedback Friday, so let's get to it!

This week, let's talk about combat tactics. We have been examining some of our behind the scenes data, and one thing that surprised us was the amount of passing in combat. This Friday, we would like to ask everyone out there for their thoughts on that specific subject.

How often do you pass in combat? Only when all your cards are greyed out, or for other reasons?

If not only when you have no other options, why?

Have a great weekend all!

Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Game Director!)
Sep 02, 2010
I usually pass in combat when I have no blades, or if I am fighting alongside people, I usually pass when they make kill-shots.
Also, I pass when I'm stunned...though I think everyone does that

Jan 11, 2012
For me, I'm passing for 3 reasons:

1) building pips (the most common)
2) don't have a spell I want to use and am discarding (much less common)
3) when somebody asks to make the killing shot and I can't buff them (rarely)

Community Leader
For me, all of my cards are rarely greyed out, but I pass for a few reasons:

1. I am in PvP and waiting for the precise moment to use a spell or spell combination after the opponent makes a move.

2. I've been stunned. No sense is using anything here.

3. My deck has become too cluttered with options, and I simply no longer need the cards in my hand.

Swordroll's Blog
Sep 01, 2009
Many Reasons, rofl.

1) Accidentally Dispelled the Card I was going to use.
2) Unwanted Cards in Hand
3) Timer ran out (25% of the time this is the reason)
4) Not enough Pips.
(and my favourite)
5) Accidentally pressing the Pass button then realising it's too late.

Apr 25, 2010
I pass probably 25% of the time, mostly because I am deleting all cards in my hand to get what I need. There have been times I wished we could view more cards at one time.

Mar 15, 2010
It depends on what's happening. If there's a multi-round spell already in effect and it will kill the boss...why bother?

Sometimes, I'm looking for something in my treasure deck (especially if I'm fighting something that is *my* school and my treasure deck has something the boss is vulnerable to.) I know, I know, we've got those little transformer trap-thingies, but if they don't pop up in my deck, I need to do something else. (I like to plan for contingencies.)

Sometimes, whoever I'm fighting with (usually my sister) has a new spell they want to try out and I'm willing to sit back and let them play. (It's just a game... right?)

Occasionally, I am just waiting for pips, but sometimes I'm hoping that a trap or blade will pop up to help intensify the spell. Especially for my higher level characters, that really becomes important. If you don't trap it and blade it and it's got eight million hit points you might as well try to fire elf it to death.

I think those are all the normal reasons I pass.

Lenora StormEyes (who is actually , which never fails to confuse everyone .)

Jul 26, 2011
I will pass if I need pips to cast the spell I wanted or if I don't get any attack spells come up. Some times I will pass to let a less experienced wizard get the kill and better XP for them ( most of the time I will set traps and blades for them to use ).

Nov 10, 2009
I pass if I'm waiting for a particular spell I have up to come into play (as in I don't have enough pip's to cast it yet). I also pass if I am waiting for a spell to come up, like a trap if I'm setting my opponent up. I will ditch all my other cards (unless there are others in my hand I want to use later) and wait for that particular card. In cases like that where I'm setting them up, I tend to use a smaller deck so I get the cards I want quicker rather than having to drop loads and wait for what I want.

Feb 11, 2012
#1- I pass because of unwanted cards.
#2-BecausE I am looking for something in particular.
#3-I just want to pass to see my enemy rage over absorb.
#4-I am bored.
#5-I accidentally press pass...

Mar 11, 2009
Usually I pass to build up power pips for a big spell since we only get to start with 2 and the baddies get to start with lots of pips, it takes time to get ours up high enough to hit. I might also pass if someone after me wants to put a blade on me or remove a weakness. Or if I am waiting for the spell card I need to come up.

**Please consider giving us more pips at the beginning of our battles. Maybe a shield with extra power pips or some other gear to help us out. It does not seem fair that the higher we get the more pips the baddies get but we dont increase at all.**

Nov 09, 2008
I generally just find that my deck tends to be a bit bloated.

I'm a level 89 Myth Wizard and I probably use less than 20% of all available Myth spells. Even then, on any given turn, majority of the cards in my hand are probably not ones I want to use that turn.

It doesn't help that there are about 10 spells alone for dealing with minions and the last minion Myth received was Talos, who at level 90 really doesn't cut it.

Every school has their own gimmick and I assumed that as Myth, I'd have more minion options. Myth seems like the closest thing in the game to a traditional MMO "pet class" but it seems like the design of the class doesn't fully commit to that concept.

It's a tough situation to deal with because if Myth becomes reliant on a minion, then Myth will be at a major disadvantage when running in 4-player groups.

Honestly, I just think that the biggest problem at this point is the bloating of the number of spells people have to choose from. I know that the next major update does not raise the level cap, but I'm assuming the following one will move the cap to 100. I think that is a great time to reflect on all the spells that are in the game and maybe reduce the spell bloat players have.

Jul 19, 2010
First off I hate to pass, it just bugs me. But when I do pass its because I am building pips for better hit...tempest, heck hound or judgement. I am dumping cards to get the spell i want up cause my deck isn't cooperating. The I am stunned reason. Or I am waiting for the right time to use a spell.

Jan 18, 2009
As a storm wizard i'm generally trying to get the one shot knock out, so i pass whenever my blades and traps are expended. I also pass if i'm trying to cast a feint but all i have is power pips, and I pass when i clear my hand in search of the sun spell I need

Mar 20, 2011
My main reason for passing is because I am saving up for a major damage shot and have no zero pip cards to cast. The only other reason I really do is when I have discarded a lot of bogus cards from my hand and need them to shuffle new ones out.

Feb 21, 2009
Typically it is just that. I will only pass when I need to. When in doubt it is always good to do things like blade or tower shield but in most cases if my cards are all grey or just not useful in any way I will discard and pass for better spells. I also pass when looking at my pip count. If I see that I have two turns until I could do something like Efreet, but a blade like elemental which would use a pip even though I have all power pips, I will most likely discard it and hope I get a better blade/trap next round. It really just depends on the scenario. It is more likely to pass during PvE than PvP since with all the new changes to PvP, you need to use up as many turns to the fullest before you get destroyed by a mega siren, super efreet or just a heavily bladed spell.

Mar 07, 2011
I very rarely pass. In my mind, I've failed if I cannot play a card, except in a few certain instances.

Passing in PvE is usually a sign of an imbalanced deck, that is, too many spells that cost pips and not enough zero pip spells. One thing I've noticed is wizards tend to use a "One Size Fits All" approach to their deck construction and do not customize or change out cards from fight to fight. Whether they are fighting storm mobs or a death boss, they use the same deck for every fight. This would lead to not having an optimal deck set up and lead to more passing.

The only time I'm happy to pass is when I only need one more pip/power pip to cast my next attack spell. Or I might pass if the player next to me has a better attack to utilize the traps that have already been placed. And of course, I pass when all my cards are greyed out.

I try to play a card every turn if possible. And if I cannot play a card, I discard one or more cards so I can get a new card next round. I think many wizards never discard which would also lead to more passing.

May 17, 2012
are we talking about PVP or just any combat in general?

there are very few times i pass, if i have a wand shot i will use it on a minion as to not kill feints or traps on a boss that i am setting up for a kill. the number one reason i will pass is because i am just not getting the spells i am looking for. weather it's a farming deck that only has mass hits in and all i get is gear and wand shots in my hand or i am waiting for a prism before i can use any traps i need to kill. I have tried several deck setups and it does get frustrating when all i can do on a turn is just discard and pass.

Jan 08, 2012
I really try not to "have an open hand" and don't pass very often. I often solo, so I am usually quite busy at the beginning of a fight.

At Zafaria and beyond I face foes starting with six to ten pips, so i know i will need shields, stun shields (vs. Ice, Storm, Myth), preliminary blades, traps, prisms, and other zero pip spells while I am building pips to repair inevitable damage from the pip heavy foes. I am also building buffed situations to take timely advantage of opportunities to do big hit damage.

Later, especially during Boss fights after the minions are dealt with, I may pass if i don't have a full set of pips and don't have a usable zero pip spell handy.

I may pass to let someone steal a ward or otherwise take out shields before I launch a big hit.

I may pass to let someone downstream buff me before I launch a big hit.

I haven't run the numbers, but i would guess my pass rate is much less than 25%.

With regards to khorne's comment:
**Please consider giving us more pips at the beginning of our battles. Maybe a shield with extra power pips or some other gear to help us out. It does not seem fair that the higher we get the more pips the baddies get but we dont increase at all.**

I agree there is something disheartening about having to endure longer and longer sieges before we can regroup and mount an effective counter attack.

Feb 08, 2010
Most of the time, I pass when I don't get what I want. For example, sometimes I don't get sharpen blade so I have to keep passing until I get it.


Jan 14, 2012
I don't very often, when I do it's usually because I don't have anything to cast. If I have a zero rank and as long as I don't have an traps on I will use it. Otherwise I don't often pass. I've noticed that I pass more when I have a lower level Wizard. Maybe because you have less spells available to cast and normally I pass to save and earn pips, but when your a higher level you have power pips so there's less having to wait on pips. I don't think that anything needs to be changed with the passing system.Lvl:55

Jul 29, 2011
If you're talking about in ranked PvP, people on both sides repeatedly pass when both are out of cards, or when the person going first is turtling and the person going second can't kill them. This started to happen after the Reshuffle update. Before, people would discard cards freely, safe in the knowledge that they could reshuffle to get their cards back. But now, in stalemate situations where neither side can take down the other side, both sides pass. So it's a competition to see who has more time to waste (usually the turtle). The "loser" ends up disconnecting or fleeing.

Turtles are a type of bully. They wear the full set of jade gear from the Keeper's Lore Pack, together with a pet that has the talents spell-proof, spell-defying, spritely, fairy and unicorn. Their entire deck consists of things like earthquake (to remove blades), sanctuary and/or time of legend (to counter doom-and-gloom), guardian spirit, heals, shields, fortify, and so on. It is practically impossible to kill them from second. Their goal is to make the opponent run out of cards or flee out of frustration, all the while verbally abusing their opponent (but always in such a way that you can't actually report them because they aren't swearing, just being rude). Sometimes people flee, but sometimes they just stand there and pass.

Jan 22, 2011
Most of the cards in my deck are useless unless applied to a specific situation so I have to delete them to get to the only good cards in the deck.
If you're looking for good feedback, what I would draw from this is that high level wizards can hardly use any of the spells we got as beginners. As a fire wizard who took secondary in storm, I can no longer use the storm spells I have for obvious reasons (pips required, less boost, etc.) I feel as though the training points I used on storm were wasted because I can't continue training past stormzilla. Is there any way to open it so high level wizards can continue to train in their secondary schools?

May 11, 2011
Reason 1: Not enough pips. This is more of an issue once you start to come against bosses that start off with 4 or more power pips. (help us out a bit by getting higher starting pips to higher levels, please?)

Reason 2: Someone in the group is stacking blades and traps, and I don't want to break them.

Reason 3: Its unnecessary to hit. Example: Minion has 13 health left, and the person before me is using a wand spell.

Sep 05, 2011
I pass because most of the time I am playing solo, and I use the largest deck I can get. I also carry three reshuffles.

So if the type of card I am looking for doesn't show up, I will ditch most of my entire hand, to pull up more possibilities, knowing that I can reshuffle them later if needed.

With blades, auras, global bubbles, and trap stacking, getting that power hit takes a while, and I need to have the right cards to come up in the right order, while healing and shielding of course.

So if that last type of blade isn't up yet, and I have no shields, I dump the cards I don't want and pass.