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Feedback Friday 6-21-13

AuthorMessage
Administrator
Professor Falmea on Jun 21, 2013 wrote:
Friday again! Alright! Time for another Feedback Friday!

This week will be part 6 of 7 asking about specific school spells. This week, it's death. I promise we'll get to everyone eventually, (almost there!!!) so if you don't have a death wizard (or an opinion on the specific spell), please be patient and we'll circle around!

Death Wizards: How would you improve the Death spell Beguile?

Happy weekend all! ::grin::

***
Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!
Friday again! Alright! Time for another Feedback Friday!

This week will be part 6 of 7 asking about specific school spells. This week, it's death. I promise we'll get to everyone eventually, (almost there!!!) so if you don't have a death wizard (or an opinion on the specific spell), please be patient and we'll circle around!

Death Wizards: How would you improve the Death spell Beguile?

Happy weekend all! ::grin::

***
Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Producer!)
Mastermind
Feb 07, 2010
387
Are you asking for improvements to the animation, or the way the spell works? Never mind I'll do a suggestion for both.

There seems to be this thing where if you cast it in a battle where you get the first turn, the monster will help you both that turn and the one after. You can fix that, and maybe have some treasure card versions that work for two rounds no matter who goes first.

As for the animation, the beguiled monster could have a big heart floating over it's head while the spell is in effect, and it would break in half when the spell wears off.

Survivor
Jul 10, 2010
4
Improve Beguile? Hmm.

Keep in mind this is my opinion, please do not be offended or have any averse emotional reaction.

I believe Beguile is slightly expensive for what it does.

In my opinion, Beguile should be able to be played off a power pip. Reduce the cost of Beguile to 2 pips. That's the first option.

Option 2: Make it an over time effect. It casts itself each round with no additional cost, but with 75% of the cast chance each round, rounded down to the nearest 5 or 0. 85%>60%>45%>30%>20%>15%>10%>5%>0%. Since it casts itself, cast chance only affects the initial cast, not the rest of the casts.

Third Option: Make Beguile an X number of pips. The number of pips ÷ 2 is the amount of rounds the target can be beguiled for. The total is 7 rounds, and the minimum is 1 round (standard rounding in calculations)

And lastly,

Fourth Option: Make Beguile work for two rounds.

Any of these would make Beguile much better in my opinion. Read the disclaimer at the top if these do not seem like ones you want.

Survivor
Feb 17, 2010
1
Make it help for more rounds, and when it becomes evil again, it automatically dies.

Defender
Jul 03, 2012
127
Well I would make it last for 3 rounds like the poisoning spells we have. It comes in handy in dungeons so I would definitely make it last for 3 rounds instead of 1.

Rylee SpiritBlood
Lvl 82 Necromancer

Delver
Oct 30, 2011
230
Finnaly death.They should improvae beguile by adding a mass beguile as the next side spell for death.

Delver
Feb 28, 2012
232
There are waaaaay too many things that the beguiled character/person can do that make this feel like a "wasted" spell. I almost never used it after learning this, just once in a great while just for kicks and giggles. Make it so that the beguiled person/character MUST do an attack, and it cannot fizzle. Also I think the hearts are a little too cute for a death spell. Trade them out for the death symbol.

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
774
The Beguile spell is to confusing and seemingly inconsistent because it behaves differently if you cast first or second. It also forms an effective shield around the beguiled target... while beguiled you can't cast an offensive spell on the target.

Beguile is currently a useless spell in PvE. It's a gamble casting the spell in the hopes that the target enemy might do something (ie attack) making the spell cash worthwhile. And anyway with enemy attack spells performing relatively little damage compared to our own... It's a waste of our pips just to get the enemy to cast a small hit on his own team mate. And as a death wizard... Do I really want an enemy acting like a mindless minion blowing away the traps and feints being setup on another enemy?

My recommendation... Either trash the spell or redesign it completely. I can't imagine a minor tweak will make this a useful spell.

Idea for revamping the spell: make Beguile 'stick' to the enemy and have it function on the next attack spell. Similar to the Weakness spell. And allow us to continue offensive spell casts on the beguiled.

RottenHeart, Lvl 90

Survivor
Jan 14, 2012
15
I don't use Beguile very often and I've never been sure on what it exactly does. Maybe it needs to be completely redesigned and or even removed. If I had to make a suggestion I would say definitely and new animation and way better one. And lower the pip cost. Maybe include Beguile into a new spell. A spell that would do damage and then cast the effect of Beguile onto one enemy. Perhaps this spell could come from Dworgyn (not sure if I spelled it right) at level 47. It could do somewhere around 375-425 damage and cost 3-4 pips. But I would most like to see a new animation for it.

Survivor
Dec 01, 2012
8
I think that these spell should stun people after it wares of.

Geographer
Mar 12, 2013
925
grahambhg on Jun 22, 2013 wrote:
There are waaaaay too many things that the beguiled character/person can do that make this feel like a "wasted" spell. I almost never used it after learning this, just once in a great while just for kicks and giggles. Make it so that the beguiled person/character MUST do an attack, and it cannot fizzle. Also I think the hearts are a little too cute for a death spell. Trade them out for the death symbol.
Agree totally, it's basically a wasted slot in anything but minion street fights.

It would be interesting to have a spell that lets you see that person's hand for their planning phase, and pick what spell they use and how they use it. You could even discard their entire hand. Rather than just changing the targeting restrictions for that player for one round.

As for appearance, the beguile hearts are okay but it would be interesting to see the affected player's eyes glow the same color as the caster's school color, until the effect wears off. Just have the eyes glow R, G, B, C, M, Y, K depending on the source's school. For instance, I'm fire but use death ninja pig polymorph to cast beguile on someone. Their eyes glow red.

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
I think you should make it redirect the target of a single spell. It's not fair when they cast an attack on just you and they still get it and you end up getting nothing out of it. That's why I never use it.

Historian
May 06, 2009
633
Yay! Finally Death.

Ok, so you've asked how to improve Beguile. It does seem to have been left out of our strategies after a while. Here's I'd improve Beguile, spell-wise:

Like many have said, I think Beguile should last for more than 1 Round. If you guys are planning to make an upgraded version of Beguile for a side world (similar to Wintertusk's release), I think that should last for more rounds, at least 3 Rounds.

Also, currently, Beguile is subjected to become Immune or Stun Resisted. While it is technically a stun, because the enemy will not really attack for a while, I think it needs to be able to, or have an updated version to bypass stun resistance and work as intended. That way, since you're spending 3 pips on it currently, you would not have wasted pips and mana on it. Lowering the Pip cost would be nice, but if Elucidate and Simplify are going to be making a return, this isn't necessary. Also if the Beguiled opponent uses an AoE it will always attack the team he/she is on. If the enemy is Beguiled, he/she will always cast a Negatvie Warm, Charm, or attack on his/her team and postive ones (heals) on the opposing team.

As for the animation, I think it works as it is now, but I think it would interesting to change the red hearts to black ones. Also the number of hearts that fly around the enemy seem to be inconsistant. Sometimes it's a swarm of hearts, other times it's just a few. I think the swarm of hearts should be the set animation for Beguile. People have said to have a little heart float around the enemy while the spell is active. I would agree this should be done.

If the animation were to be updated, I would leave the swarm of hearts as is but add two, glowing, flaming red hearts to slowly swirl upward from the ground around the enemy while the swarm goes on. When the hearts reach the top of the enemy, they would shoot arrows at the enemy. The hearts would vanish in a flash of light, ending the spell.

Explorer
May 17, 2010
92
RottenHeart on Jun 22, 2013 wrote:
The Beguile spell is to confusing and seemingly inconsistent because it behaves differently if you cast first or second. It also forms an effective shield around the beguiled target... while beguiled you can't cast an offensive spell on the target.

Beguile is currently a useless spell in PvE. It's a gamble casting the spell in the hopes that the target enemy might do something (ie attack) making the spell cash worthwhile. And anyway with enemy attack spells performing relatively little damage compared to our own... It's a waste of our pips just to get the enemy to cast a small hit on his own team mate. And as a death wizard... Do I really want an enemy acting like a mindless minion blowing away the traps and feints being setup on another enemy?

My recommendation... Either trash the spell or redesign it completely. I can't imagine a minor tweak will make this a useful spell.

Idea for revamping the spell: make Beguile 'stick' to the enemy and have it function on the next attack spell. Similar to the Weakness spell. And allow us to continue offensive spell casts on the beguiled.

RottenHeart, Lvl 90
I've been playing a long time and this spell still befuddles me. It just doesn't seem to work sometimes and they still attack me or help their own team. I just don't get it. My thought of how it is supposed to work is that Round 1 you cast the spell on the opponent and then in Round 2 what ever they cast will be forced to work for my team (i.e. any attack would attack their team or it could shield or blade me or members of my team). I see what spell the beguiled player is casting in that second round but I have experienced all kinds of weird results and can't figure what is going on. Maybe someone can explain exactly how it does work.
As for fixing it, I like RottenHeart's suggestion that it would act as a negative charm like weakness and would affect the next outgoing attack spell. That would be great in PvE and at least a little better in PvP. Sure in PvP they can have a work around or minimize its effects by casting a remove negative charm spell (i forget the correct name) or only use a wand spell, but that is a lot better than the present in which the work around is a pass or using a shield or blade on themself.
As for lowering the pip cost or lengthening the duration, I don't like because it would make it too easy to spam.

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
774
I hope KI doesn't mind, I'm copying this from a much older post I made. This may help people understand the current spell. This is how it currently functions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After hours of battling the Restless Soldier and Undead Wizard in the Necropolis I finally figured this out. I found it quite confusing, especially case1 because you would expect the beguile to take effect immediately, not the next round.

Case1: You Cast First Each Round
- on the same round that you cast, beguile has no effect. The enemy may attack you. Absolutely for sure.
- on the next round the beguiled enemy shows what they are going to cast. You can not cast an offensive spell on the beguiled enemy (attack, trap, or feint). The enemy gets to cast first. (spell casting order changes!) If the beguiled performs an attack it will be on an enemy.

Case2: Enemy Casts First Each Round:
- On the next two rounds the beguiled enemy shows what they are going to cast. You can not cast an offensive spell on the beguiled enemy. The beguiled enemy casts last (spell casting order changes!) If the beguiled performs an attack it will be on an enemy.

Beguile is quite useless in PvE. The chances of casting it such that it 'redirects' an enemy attack is a gamble, and the fact that you can't perform any offensive spell casts on a beguiled enemy makes it fantastic shield for the enemy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~ RottenHeart, Lvl 90

Survivor
Mar 30, 2009
4
I used beguile once on a boss. Obviously it was resisted. Whatever the case, I never used it again. I survive street fights without it, and once I defeat minions in a boss battle, it's useless :p
It also costs a lot of pips. If it was a 1 or 0 pip spell, I might use it without any other tweaks. But if I have no guarantee that the enemy will attack at all while it is on, then it is certainly not worth 3.

I like the idea of it sticking until the enemy attacks or heals or does something for the other team. I don't want to cast beguile only to highlight the baddie casting a blade for himself for the storms ills he'll cast once beguile wears off :p

Survivor
Jan 11, 2013
34
i would make it so in pvp, the beguiled wizard should not know that they are being beguiled. this would require there to be no animation,or the animation of the caster fizzling. if they choose an attack spell, the beguile wears off, but is not in effect until then. also, make the attack direct towards the person casting so it's useful in 1v1.

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
864
I'm not a death wizard but here goes. Make it hit for 400, then a glow appears over enemy then they have to help you for 2 turns. -Jasmine FireBlade, level 86 pyromancer.

Explorer
May 17, 2010
92
RottenHeart on Jun 25, 2013 wrote:
I hope KI doesn't mind, I'm copying this from a much older post I made. This may help people understand the current spell. This is how it currently functions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After hours of battling the Restless Soldier and Undead Wizard in the Necropolis I finally figured this out. I found it quite confusing, especially case1 because you would expect the beguile to take effect immediately, not the next round.

Case1: You Cast First Each Round
- on the same round that you cast, beguile has no effect. The enemy may attack you. Absolutely for sure.
- on the next round the beguiled enemy shows what they are going to cast. You can not cast an offensive spell on the beguiled enemy (attack, trap, or feint). The enemy gets to cast first. (spell casting order changes!) If the beguiled performs an attack it will be on an enemy.

Case2: Enemy Casts First Each Round:
- On the next two rounds the beguiled enemy shows what they are going to cast. You can not cast an offensive spell on the beguiled enemy. The beguiled enemy casts last (spell casting order changes!) If the beguiled performs an attack it will be on an enemy.

Beguile is quite useless in PvE. The chances of casting it such that it 'redirects' an enemy attack is a gamble, and the fact that you can't perform any offensive spell casts on a beguiled enemy makes it fantastic shield for the enemy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~ RottenHeart, Lvl 90
RottenHeart, thank you for the detailed explanation. The basics of it acting the next round is what/how I expected the spell to work but I have still been surprised or confused during the game that it didn't seem to behave correctly. BTW you say in case 2 that you see the upcoming cast for 2 rounds but you don't clarify about if they are beguiled both rounds or only the first of the 2 (I just tested it last night and found out they are beguiled for both rounds).

Survivor
Jun 09, 2012
12
you need to do another special code week. it has ben a long time and I never got anything the last time
I am asking if you could do this one more time. people have started talking about it again. they want you to do another.

Administrator
Wizards, thanks for all the great feedback. I'll have to discuss with Dworgyn and the crew, but there are some great ideas here to improve this spell.

One more week of spell feedback! It's coming up shortly...

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Producer!)