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How important is it for you to go first in battle?

Super important! I would make sure that I go first at all costs.
15% [20]
Pretty important, if I could tip the odds in my favor, I would.
34% [45]
If it happens, great. If not, no worries.
40% [52]
I like to go LAST!
9% [12]

Feedback Friday 1-29-16

1
AuthorMessage
Administrator
Happy Friday, everyone! And... since it is that wonderful day, let's discuss a new topic, shall we?

This week, we'd like to take a poll - it's been a while for one of these, hasn't it? Vote on the poll and jump in on any further discuss below - how important is it to you to go first in a battle? Super important? Not really? Inquiring minds here at Ravenwood want to know...

Have a fabulous weekend, Wizards!


“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Producer!)
Survivor
Nov 11, 2010
12
Hmmm is it just me or i just dont know why should i go first in the battle? Does it have better loot or something?

Survivor
Aug 02, 2010
3
This has been a very hot topic of debate in the community lately, and for good reason. Going first in a PVP match provides a very large edge over your opponent and in some cases it can outright hand you a free match. That being said, it's not impossible to win from second and it's very possible to lose from first. One of the suggestions I've seen made regularly to change this system is an alternating switch between who goes first/second. The person that went first last round will go second this round, and then it'll change again. I'm personally not fond of this system as it means the person going second has two moves instead of one. It'll require a lot testing and tweaking for sure. That being said, I personally feel that some kind of change is necessary, because as it stands, going first can make all the difference.

Mastermind
Apr 13, 2011
395
Professor Falmea on Jan 29, 2016 wrote:
Happy Friday, everyone! And... since it is that wonderful day, let's discuss a new topic, shall we?

This week, we'd like to take a poll - it's been a while for one of these, hasn't it? Vote on the poll and jump in on any further discuss below - how important is it to you to go first in a battle? Super important? Not really? Inquiring minds here at Ravenwood want to know...

Have a fabulous weekend, Wizards!

I thinks it extremely important that I go first because that way I feel less pressured on when to put on blades and stuff and I can better coordinate what's going to happen. When I go first I feel like I have a better chance of having a nice, fun battle.

Survivor
Jul 07, 2009
4
I usually like to go 2nd or 3rd, but if it happens, cool.... I guess... but if not, no big deal.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
the only place it really seems to matter is PvP and occasionally, some boss fights, other than that, who cares? They die the same if they strike first or last :)

Champion
Jul 09, 2010
482
I know I'd have an advantage if I did go first - but I never worry about it.

Survivor
Apr 27, 2011
17
For max level PvP - if you go first your chances of winning are close to 95%. Please do something to balance the game a bit more. Right now, it is very luck based. If this continues, the game probably will last 2 more years, before 99% of the most active players quit.

Survivor
May 16, 2009
32
I don't really care if I go first or not. I don't really tank (being Fire and Myth), I prefer to play more supportive or offensive if the situation calls for it. My favorite spot is actually the third one (star) if that adds to the answer. Conveniently enough, I chose the third option in the poll .

Survivor
Nov 08, 2015
1
it really don't matter to me . if it gives me more rewards such as coins and Treasure cards , then yeah it might be more important but , then again i don't know if being First in a battle will matter anyways lol

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
749
Being first has a few disadvantages. There are plenty of times that i'm really glad I went last, because what I do undoes what the enemy team just did. So while I like to go first sometimes, it's not a requirement.

Besides, with all the cheating critters at the higher levels, who get to do stuff out of turn, I'm not sure first and last is really even a concern at all any more.

Survivor
Jan 02, 2012
11
This question is somewhat open ended. To begin with, people just might misinterpret it as first position in a team fight vs your team going first turn with the turn based system. There's a huge difference between PvE and PvP contexts.

To begin with, PvE doesn't matter much except for fast strategies, cheating bosses, and annoying Earthquake/Sirens/Enfeeble spammers and whatnot.

PvP is totally different. I've done so much PvP and anyone that knows me knows that I'm obsessed with it. The turn based system gives defense control to the player going first, and it's very, very advantageous. They can shield or even worse, dispel, right when you hit and they don't expect it while the player going first has the opportunity to remove dispels or debuffs before they hit. They also get to hit first, and have the opportunity for direct reaction.
What is direct reaction? The player going first can react directly to the second-going player's spell cast. Right after they cast it, they can respond to it and choose their card. The player going second can't do the same, they can only react to what the player did a round before, so its delayed. This requires more skill on player two's part for prediction, and essentially, leads to an imbalance where a less skilled player wins a match simply because they went first, have the opportunity to defend and react first, and get to hit first. I can't describe the hundreds of matches I've done where this has happened so often in ranked PvP. The starting pip is a one round difference but the spells that are cast each round overrride the single pip. Matches go too fast and one round makes big difference. The starting pip isn't enough. In a Twitter Poll currently 85% of voters said that going first in PvP is a major advantage, with the other 15% saying mild advantage and no one with the opinion that going first vs going second is a little or no advantage scenario. Overall, the advantage gap needs fixes.

Hero
May 02, 2009
787
Your question is unclear. People are getting confused as to whether you mean first in terms of turn order or first in terms of place/position in the fight/team (i.e. you're in the second battle slot on your team rather than the first battle slot on your team), so because of this some clarification on what it is that you mean exactly by this question would be great, thanks.

Survivor
Dec 31, 2011
9
It is really only important if you are going to be the tank or if you are boosting the others.

Survivor
Mar 09, 2014
1
Depends on the wizard I'm using. For purposes of a team. If I'm using my Jade Life then I want to go first. But if I'm using my Myth I'd rather go 3rd or 4th. For Death I like to be second, so I don't draw the agro as much, and I can feint and blade the hitter.

Explorer
Dec 15, 2009
69
It's funny because I remember a time when no one wanted to go first. Still see it with some bosses.

Survivor
Dec 27, 2009
11
I prefer to go first. Then, if I am low on life, I can heal myself without worrying that my opponent will defeat me first. Also, if you go second, you may cast a super powerful spell with all your pips, and your opponent casts a 80% shield and you don't do nearly as much damage to your opponent.

Delver
Mar 29, 2012
233
I think you need to clarify your question.
If you mean go first as in, we as a team get first cast against the baddies? Because some teams of wizards have been known to restart a battle as many times as needed to go first against someone like Shane Von Shane. It was this scenario I was thinking of when I voted.
If you mean go first as in, order of wizards into the battle circle. Id have to say that really depends on the wizard I am playing. My storm would never want to go first, but my support wizards get pretty annoyed if they dont get to protect the team from first. Blading, healing, and shielding are so much more effective if you are ahead of the damage wizard in the casting order.

Amber (Raven Song)

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
152
It depends on the fight. Usually it doesn't matter too much in PvE

There are some fights where it helps to be first -- like Loremaster, where at least you know you won't be hit with a -40% on the attack round, or avoiding Yvengy's stuns. There are a few fights where it's better to be second, like dispelling Lord Ombra.

In PvP, first is usually good, though I have seen some players use the extra pip to advantage.

As long as it's pure chance, and 50/50 odds, the current system is fine. I'd never want any stat or mechanism that affected turn order. Keep it luck-based please, but make sure the luck is really balanced. Some of the "random" game events don't seem as random as they should be.

Thanks.

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
Shadowblader21 on Jan 30, 2016 wrote:
This question is somewhat open ended. To begin with, people just might misinterpret it as first position in a team fight vs your team going first turn with the turn based system. There's a huge difference between PvE and PvP contexts.

To begin with, PvE doesn't matter much except for fast strategies, cheating bosses, and annoying Earthquake/Sirens/Enfeeble spammers and whatnot.

PvP is totally different. I've done so much PvP and anyone that knows me knows that I'm obsessed with it. The turn based system gives defense control to the player going first, and it's very, very advantageous. They can shield or even worse, dispel, right when you hit and they don't expect it while the player going first has the opportunity to remove dispels or debuffs before they hit. They also get to hit first, and have the opportunity for direct reaction.
What is direct reaction? The player going first can react directly to the second-going player's spell cast. Right after they cast it, they can respond to it and choose their card. The player going second can't do the same, they can only react to what the player did a round before, so its delayed. This requires more skill on player two's part for prediction, and essentially, leads to an imbalance where a less skilled player wins a match simply because they went first, have the opportunity to defend and react first, and get to hit first. I can't describe the hundreds of matches I've done where this has happened so often in ranked PvP. The starting pip is a one round difference but the spells that are cast each round overrride the single pip. Matches go too fast and one round makes big difference. The starting pip isn't enough. In a Twitter Poll currently 85% of voters said that going first in PvP is a major advantage, with the other 15% saying mild advantage and no one with the opinion that going first vs going second is a little or no advantage scenario. Overall, the advantage gap needs fixes.
Absolutely right. In PVE I usually don't care which position I am in, but in PVP it's sooo much easier when I go first. And facing a from second, in PVP, is HORRIBLE. Like, PLEASE. Can we raise the Pip cost of Unbalance to 3 or 4? Everyone spams this spell so much it's not even funny.

So, from second, not only do I have to assess the potential of a next-round shadow enhanced spell, but the potential of a stun, as well as the potential of a dispel, as well as the potential of hitting into a shield, as well as the potential of a shield removal + buff TC like Icebird / Fire Beetle, etc. being cast on me.

I really don't like complaining, but can we make things just a bit easier for the wizards going second? It's a wonder I can win at all from second as a Balance, and that only because I have Mana Burn + Loremaster and don't hit until I have 2 of the same shield on anyway, but even then if they cast Shrike it can be darn near impossible to tank with the insane amounts of damage wizards can crank out in this meta. And yes I trained Stun Block, etc, but getting the opportunity to cast it from second without getting a third or more of my health sliced away is just one of the many problems that arise from going second, unless you're Ice.

Adrian
PVP Overlord

Explorer
Dec 15, 2009
69
Ok, when I voted in this poll I thought the question meant first as in the position on your team. If you mean being on the team that goes first, then yes it is very important.

Survivor
Dec 09, 2012
34
Do you mean first in a battle as in going first turn wise, or position wise like in darkmoor where the storm typically goes in the last spot when the battle is about to begin

Geographer
Apr 29, 2012
861
I answered this poll quite mindlessly but I just read the whole thing through again and... Professor Falmea? Are these 'inquiring minds' suggesting a new statistic for such a thing?

Administrator
flash33 on Jan 30, 2016 wrote:
Your question is unclear. People are getting confused as to whether you mean first in terms of turn order or first in terms of place/position in the fight/team (i.e. you're in the second battle slot on your team rather than the first battle slot on your team), so because of this some clarification on what it is that you mean exactly by this question would be great, thanks.
Great insights either way. However, my intention with the question was that your TEAM goes first, not second. I wasn't refering to the order you play ON your team (first, second, third, or fourth). Is that clearer?

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Producer!)
Survivor
Oct 01, 2011
2
In PvP against 2 skilled players, namely in central tournaments, it is almost always crucial that you go first for a win.

Those in second have an inherit disadvantage:
1. Blindly hitting to shields
2. Blindly healing to infect/doom
3. Unless they blindly predict correctly, have a huge bubble war disadvantage
4. Opposing minions ALWAYS have at least 1 chance to attack, and can get shielded by the opposing wizard
5. Blindly team healing/attacking to beguiles (hint: it doesn't work from second)
6. They can't feint since the opponent can immediately react
7. In fact, they can't use ANY single hit without the fear of a shield (only exception: medusa follow-ups)
8. BLINDLY HITTING INTO DISPELS
And many, many more

So yes the first advantage matters to PvPers a lot, and some PvEers in places like Darkmoor.

Please KI, this was probably the most potentially constructive feedback thus far.
Please take the a revamp to the turn system into consideration.

1