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Feedback Friday 1-28-11

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Nov 07, 2008
1
I feel that going second makes you think one step ahead of your opponent. I think it is fair as long as the lower levels/ranks have a bigger chance of going first.

Survivor
Apr 06, 2010
22
I'd guess a computer decides who goes first even if you have the toughest spells.

From Wiki:

A computer is a programmable machine that receives input, stores and automatically manipulates data, and provides output in a useful format.

Mechanical examples of computers have existed through much of recorded human history. The first electronic computers were developed in the mid-20th century (1940–1945). Originally, they were the size of a large room, consuming as much power as several hundred modern personal computers (PCs).

Modern computers based on integrated circuits are millions to billions of times more capable than the early machines, and occupy a fraction of the space. Simple computers are small enough to fit into mobile devices, and can be powered by a small battery. Personal computers in their various forms are icons of the Information Age and are what most people think of as "computers". However, the embedded computers found in many devices from MP3 players to fighter aircraft and from toys to industrial robots are the most numerous.


Delver
Aug 10, 2009
224
I think everybody will agree with this, PVP ranked matches would be a whole lot more fun if you were paired up with a wizard(or witch) that is the same rank and level as you are.

"The fire burns brighter and hotter in the dead of winter."
-Alexander Dragontamer-
Level: 28
1st School: Fire
2nd School: Balance

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
Stormycloud123456 wrote:
I'd guess a computer decides who goes first even if you have the toughest spells.

From Wiki:

A computer is a programmable machine that receives input, stores and automatically manipulates data, and provides output in a useful format.

Mechanical examples of computers have existed through much of recorded human history. The first electronic computers were developed in the mid-20th century (1940–1945). Originally, they were the size of a large room, consuming as much power as several hundred modern personal computers (PCs).

Modern computers based on integrated circuits are millions to billions of times more capable than the early machines, and occupy a fraction of the space. Simple computers are small enough to fit into mobile devices, and can be powered by a small battery. Personal computers in their various forms are icons of the Information Age and are what most people think of as "computers". However, the embedded computers found in many devices from MP3 players to fighter aircraft and from toys to industrial robots are the most numerous.



Um what does this have to do with the question at hand, "what would you do to fix the disadvantage of going second in PVP?"

Everyone already knows that going first or second is a random process. However, the argument proffered is that the player or team going first have a distinct advantage over the player or team that is going second. The producer of Wizard101 would like to hear what you think is a viable solution to have some sort of balance. In other words, what can KingsIsle do to take away the disadvantage of going second in PVP?

In my opinion, there's nothing that can be done to fix this. I do concur that going second put you at a disadvantage in most cases but it does not handicap you in a duel. it doesn't matter what we say; someone will have to go first because it's not a combat game where you jump in and do hand-to-hand combat, it's a card based game. hence, one person or team will get to make the first move, I don't see any way around that.

let us not dwell on who goes first and who goes second in PVP because that is not the major problem that we face. Where are all the dire-hard PVP duelists who have been complaining about PVP? Now is the time to let Falmea hear what you think is best? Do you guys really think that randomizing the 'turn process' is gonna stop players from Chain stunning you or putting up a dispel? Players have gone second and still chain stun the team who went first and won the duel.

people please don't let this golden opportunity pass; the producer herself is asking us what can she do, and here we are belaboring the point of who goes first lol.

Professor Falmea, it is my contention that problems in PVP goes way beyond who gets the first turn. let me try and list a few problems and possible solution.

1. Low levels vs high levels- sometimes people are match up with players who are far more stronger than they are, even though they have the same rank, eg., a Magus wizard vs a legendary wizard and both are privates or a legendary private vs a legendary Knight.

Solution: let the player know who they are match up against before they enter the match! When that screen pops up for you to go to the arena, it should show your opponents rank, class and level. Can you imagine going into a duel with 5 storm shields only to find that your opponent is a myth wizard?

2. One of your team members got ported to the arena late and cannot enter the match!

Solution: everyone gets ported back otthe lobby immediately without loosing any points or let it be a draw and everyone gets arena tickets but the match will not go. it just says "DRAW" and everyone gets their tickets and go back to the lobby.

3. Chain stunning- Sad to say but it is still very much prevalent in PVP because earthquake removes the stun shields AS IT SHOULD.

Solution: activate a stun resist aura instead of shields.

4. Dispels and beguiles

Solution: limit their use to two per match and should not be used consecutively. And I meant ONLY 2 per match not per person.

5. Teams being wiped out in one round- i.e. they attacking team all use high level DAO spells that just wipe out their opponents in one go, eg., 4v4 one team uses Storm lord, Fire dragon, Frost giant and RA. There is no way the other team can survive this.

Solution: ???? hmm only 2 high hit DOA per round? Could still be effective in 2v2 and 3v3 but won't necessarily obliterate your opponent.

6. Spamming tower shields.

Solution: only Ice wizards are allowed to take 7 tower shields into a duel because it's a school spell. For everyone else, only 4 whether it is trained or treasure. I'm tired of seeing people just towering for like several rounds and build up their pips and use consecutive high ranking spells to defeat you.

7.Ranking down- some warlords rank down to get arena tickets and God knows what else and so you find a warlord battling a private because said warlord has ranked down to private status!

Solution: Cap the rank down; Warlords should not go beyond Captain! It is not fair to a newly arrived private to be up against someone who have been a warlord several times over! Not fair. Another solution is to match them up with Captain rank players and above, they system should know that they have already achieved the warlord status or add a few more ranks!

8. Excessive use of treasure cards

Solution: maximum amount of each different type of treasure card to the side deck is 4. So that way no one can have 20 tower shields in their side deck! only 4 of each spell, after all we can only stack 4 out of school spell in our main so why not side deck as well?

9. Players with multiple accounts team dueling against single account players, i.e. the same person controlling all the wizards on one team while the other teams' wizards are being controlled by different persons.

Solution: ??? can't think of anything right now

10. Going second!

Solution: one extra power pip! (per round?)

Side note: storm need a DOT spell please, it's hard to win in 1v1 with all those shields and we got low health.


Survivor
Aug 29, 2008
13
This is a great feedback topic.

I have been playing the game since opening week, and have been a member of the wizard101central community since then as well.

I have been very involve in the PvP aspect of the game since the arena came out, and a problem that has always been present and affected matches has been who goes first or second.

No matter what other people would like to believe and say that going second is not that bad, that it all comes down to skill and what not, the disadvantage of going second is too big to ignore.

Let's face it. If you face a really good duelist in PvP these days, if they go first, your chances of winning are close to nothing. You would have to get extremely lucky and hit a few criticals here and there in order to win. Duels should come down on who has better skill and can use their decks the most efficiently, it should not come down to how lucky you got you went first.

There are two possible solutions to this problem.

1. A chess based system. The way it is now, going 2nd is such a problem because you don't get time to change your mind depending on what the opponent casts. So you can blindly cast your Helephant into a shield, while the opponent going first can see you have a shield and use a Fire Elf to get rid of it before using their Helephant.

By making the turn based system the way Chess' system is, it would fix this problem. One chooses a spell, then it's cast. Then the other player gets to choose a spell, and then it's casted. And so on.

Not only would it increase the skill involved in duels, but it would make it fairest for all. Players will be winning based on their skills, and just not luck.

2. The second solution is more complicated than the first, and it's more confusing. The best way to understand it is to take a look at this post from Central:
http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1055423&postcount=24

Is like adding quickness factor to cards, just like they have accuracy. Make it so if the card has a higher quickness, it gets casted first. So if a shield has 100% quickness, it will come before an attack that as 90% quickness, allowing wizards from second to successfully block attacks the same way wizards from first do.

Survivor
May 28, 2009
3
forgetno4 wrote:
I think everybody will agree with this, PVP ranked matches would be a whole lot more fun if you were paired up with a wizard(or witch) that is the same rank and level as you are.

"The fire burns brighter and hotter in the dead of winter."
-Alexander Dragontamer-
Level: 28
1st School: Fire
2nd School: Balance


Honestly I agree this is a bigger problem in PVP then who goes first. It is really hard for a lower level wizard commander or not to win against a grand or legend. These pair ups happen all the time. Another thing that would lessen the losses if you did not loose 20 plus points when you loose and only gain 3 when you win. I can remember when used to win and constantly got 10 points no more now I see 3 for wins. A loss should not be so large an amount.

Survivor
Apr 05, 2010
49
I'd say the best fix to the 'going 2nd' issue would be implement the 'chess' turn idea. Instead of both players deciding what cards to play at the same time, they would alternate, giving the player in second the chance to react. It would also help to take a page from other CCG's, such as in Magic: the Gathering, the first player is restricted to playing only a land and zero cost cards in their first turn. For Wizard101, the first player shouldn't receive a pip on the first turn. Wands could still provide their pips, the first turn, but the player going first would actually be put at a disadvantage as well. I think both of these solutions together would level the playing field and make going first much less of the advantage that it is now.

Survivor
Nov 01, 2009
2
Defender
Dec 01, 2010
153
Well I notice if you go first you need to play more on offense If you go second you need to play more on defense.

When we go second if you could give us a defense advantage that should make the fights more fair.

Like maybe give us -20% damage for 3 rounds or something like that in the beginning. Then the rest of the battle will be up to skill etc.


Survivor
May 12, 2010
1
Going second is not a problem in 1v1 or 2v2.

The problem manifests in 3v3 and 4v4 when the first team can deal out more cumulative damage in Rounds 1 & 2 than the second team can defend against (ie: garg sandstorms, garg tempests, garg meteors, etc).

The suggestion earlier (7th post) of each team resolving its move before the other team selects their cards is an excellent idea for 3v3 and 4v4 play.

I wouldn't change a thing for 1v1 and 2v2 - all duelists need to learn to play both sides to earn the warlord badge.

Nice ideas by NicoUzumaki, especially limiting sideboards to 4 of the same card (similar to main deck limits), limiting dispels and beguiles, and activating a stun resist aura.

Survivor
Jul 23, 2009
25
That is a very hard question to answer. I had considered simutanious casting, but what if one player casted a, for example, storm type dispel while the other wanded? Because it happens neither after nor before, how would the spells react? Also, the animation would look awkward. Then I thought about a system that would work so that player 1 attacks, then player 2 gets 2 turns, followed by another turn for player 1. This 4 turn cycle would repeat, but the 2 consecutive turns is a bad idea. That would make feint judge/colosus/leviatan etc. much to easy to pull off. I don't think there is a solution, but that it is fine as it is. If you prepare for always going second, you should have no problems.

Defender
Dec 01, 2010
153
Another idea I had is instead of making on team or the other go first maybe make it random for everyone involved so in a 4 v 4 situation it would look like this..

Team One A B C D
Team Two E F G H

Player A goes 3rd
Player B goes 5th
Player C goes 7th
Player D goes 8th

Player E goes 2 nd
Player F goes 4th
Player G goes 6th
Player H goes 1 st

Just a thought

Survivor
May 21, 2010
20
i think going second has disadvantages but at times it doesnt. i am a big pvp player have had characters reach over 3,000 rank. sometimes going second has advatages like over time heals i think pvp should be left the way it is. if anything how about changing people with critical getting low levels?


Survivor
Nov 01, 2008
9
um, how bout you switch it each time? on normal battles, toss up on who goes first, then just switch it! its perfect! i've died SO MANAY TIMES in battles because ofthis darn thing just please make it better for us all, thank you

Ethan Firebringer
lvl 53
Pyromancer

the burning flames, rejoyce re joyce!
they swriling pyro, rejoyce, rejoyce!
us weilders of the flames, HELP THEM ALL
REJOYCE< rejoyce

Survivor
Nov 20, 2010
2
I think that once you're really good at PvP's you should be able to buy something with arena tickets that increases your chances of going first!

Survivor
Aug 08, 2009
5
I think the answer is quite simple. I ran a few mock tests at home and it worked out great. to fix the advantage in PVP. Give the player playing second either an additional pip. or an additional spell in hand.

another fix would be to allow the seccond player to play twice on his or her turn. just on the first turn.

thanks and keep up the good work.

Survivor
Jan 04, 2010
14
Thanks finally something about this :D i recently posted that i was miserably cheated 3 times in 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 they get a low level which has a low rank to make a 2v2 with a legendary! me and my friend i'm 28 and she is 31 i'm balance she's ice o. o we were captains now we are veterans because people keep getting legendary myth fire storm we couldnt win please let it check the entire level of the team then make the match not just the creator Thanks :)

Gabriel Deathforge: 60 Necromancer

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
Firestarter75 wrote:
I think the simplest solution would be to go from a turn based system to a 1/2 turn system like chess. In other words instead of each wiz choosing a card and the the spells take effect, wizard one would cast a spell and it would activate. Then the second wiz would make his move having seen wiz #1's move.
It would still give an advantage to the wizard going first, but not so much as now. It would also require a shorter countdown to choose your spell as you would efectivley be doubling the number of turns in each match.
This idea is already growing more and more popular and I love it! And I LOVE chess!

Survivor
Dec 21, 2010
1
All these ideas have their own merits, but think of this small solution.

If the team going second is defeated during team 1's turn allow team 2's cards to be cast giving them a fair and equal number of rounds played. If none of team 2's players have either healed or any players remain alive on team 1 then the match is over.

Seems fair and maybe simple enough just an idea from an old man who has played pvp is many different games.

Ethan LightCaster
Legendary Sorcerer

Explorer
Feb 25, 2010
67
Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
What I think would make PvP more fun, fair, and enjoyable for everyone is to make it to where you don't lose points from your rank for losing. After spending so long ranking up I find it VERY discouraging to spend so long ranking down back to veteran. At least I managed to get back to knight.

Explorer
Feb 07, 2010
51
There should be a card picking the player that picks the most highest ranked spell that player gets to go first.

Survivor
Mar 20, 2009
24
I say before the duel have a coin flip in the middle of the screen to see who goes first. And after the flip give them about a minute to a minute and 30 seconds to prepare there deck the best way they can.

Survivor
Nov 08, 2009
8
i think that on the first turn there would be a bunch of numbers instead of spells.It's going to be a what number is wizard 101 thinking of?You know.Which number is the closest kind of thing.So people won't be sad not angry but super happy!

From: Jason Anvil Eyes level 52 necromancer.A.k.a jakerspd

see ya!

Survivor
Dec 22, 2010
2
for PvP you could have a kind of rock paper scissors thing to decide who goes first