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Early AOE spells for Death and Life schools

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Aug 27, 2014
7
I'm not sure if this topic has been addressed before, but I'd really like the members of KI to consider giving Death and Life a spell that hits all enemies earlier on in the game like the other schools. I am fully aware that it is possible to make it through the game without any until around Dragonsypre for Death and halfway through celestia for life, however, it doesn't seem fair. Fire gets 3 AOE spells 1st being meteor, scald, then Fire dragon. Ice gets a variant of meteor aka blizzard and Frost Giant. Myth gets the frog and then Earthquake later on. Storm gets tempest and then storm lord. Balance has sandstorm and maybe something else, but Life doesn't see an AOE damage spell until level 58!!!! That is a long time to go through the entire original story. Death is an exception because it gets scarecrow at lvl 48, but still. I think it would only be fair to make Nature's Wrath an AOE spell that hits all enemies and maybe make Vampire or Skeletal Pirate do the same.

It would be great and make death and life wizards not struggle so much in the beginning of the game. Most of all it would just be fair.

Survivor
Nov 14, 2012
3
I agree with you 100%! I am a Life Wizard and have completed the game. I got the new spell for Life but although it is good; again, it hits only one monster and is not a multi-hitter. We got shortchanged on that. The only multi-hit spell I have is my gorilla but even with blades, traps and feints, he simply is not a big hitter. Does anyone from Wizard really read our concerns--I wonder? Maria Willowglade

Mastermind
Feb 29, 2012
323
My first wizard was a death wiz. It was really rough going until you get Scarecrow. Then things kinda got easier.
When I crafted Deer Knight, it changed everything. That spell was the most influential death spell you could add. The only downside is that one it is crafted.
To craft it you have to have amber, which is dropped by plants available in DS.
But, you have to be a crafting level for zafaria and that crafting quest only opens after you do a storyline quest.
To boot, the recipe is in Avalon and I think that one is also in the middle of storyline quests.
So in reality, if you don't farm the spell at the Loremaster or buy packs, Death has one AoE until 3/5 through the second arc.
They should make Deer Knight available in MS with the other crafted spells and leave Lord of Night for Avalon.

Champion
Mar 27, 2011
405
Naw, all the schools have some strong and weak things. Life and death wait longer for an AoE, but get two of the best in the game. Only Death has drains. Only Life has team heals and a trained healing boost. It's fair enough. We shouldn't all be the same.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
To recap what is already known about trainable AoE hits:
  • Balance gets Sandstorm at 16.
  • Fire gets Meteor Strike at 22.
  • Myth gets Humongofrog at 22.
  • Ice gets Blizzard at 26.
  • Storm gets Tempest at 28.
  • Death can get Deer Knight at any level, but gets Scarecrow at 48.
  • Life gets Forest Lord at 58.

While I can appreciate that the developers want to keep the schools distinct, I also think it's a bit absurd to introduce Life & Death AoE hits so much later than the other schools. A little later? Ok, that's fine. But no, it's frankly draconic to insist on that kind of disparity.

So, two suggestions:

1) Give each school a unique Transmute card that they can train. Similar to existing transmutes, if you use the enchant on the appropriate spell (e.g., Kraken) it changes it into a new attack (e.g., Inferno Kraken). However, unlike existing Transmutes, the spell would not change school. New Transmutes for Life and Death could be AoE spells. If the resulting spells are Transmutes, no one can go adding Gargantuan or Colossal on top of it and disrupt the balance of PvP, and yet the hit could still be useful.

example- Transmute Unicorn --> Vigorous Ponycorn, AoE hit
example- Transmute Ghoul --> Morbid Bonekeeper, AoE hit

2) New craftable Transmutes should be introduced at each school's Tree for Adept Crafters and above who are also Level 36 and up. If recipes for the spells are sold at the trees, off-schoolers can't learn them. This way, everybody gets something, there's no favoritism. On top of that, we can address a long-standing problem in the game.

Survivor
Aug 27, 2014
7
If you think about it some of the spells for different schools are kind of the same. Fire is supposed to specialize in damage over time spells, but ice has frostbite and death has poison which both do damage over time.

The only thing I'm trying to get across is that every school should have access to an AOE damage spell earlier in the game and not just 5 out of the 7 schools. We are all well aware that Life is a support and the reason it has healing spells that heal all players is because it is expected for life wizards to team up with other players in the game. That's great!!! However, for the sake of fairness life and death school should have at least one AOE damage spell before scarecrow(lvl 48 death) and forest lord(lvl 58 life).

This has nothing to do with my wanting the schools to be similar. Think about it like this: a ten year old kid starts playing wiz with their friends and chooses death or life because it sounds cool. Now let's say that kid sees their friend cast meteor, blizzard, humongofrog, sandstorm, or even tempest. They wonder when they will get a spell like that because it comes in handy when doing quests that have you facing 2 enemies or like the side quest that I struggled with on my death in krok where you fight this boss and his 3 bodyguards in the storm tomb or whatever its called. Not having an AOE damage spell will cause most life and death wizards to depend on their friends who have access to one at earlier levels. Now the question becomes is their friend or are their friends players who play everyday or when they get a chance? The answer: we don't know. Someone might suggest buying scarecrow or forest lord treasure cards but think of the other thousands of players who might be buying those same cards. It is a struggle and maybe after seeing how long it would take to get a spell that hits all the child decides to delete their death or life wizard because of that fact and choose something else.

Survivor
Aug 27, 2014
7
Bookmouse1063 thank you and no I'm not sure if anyone reads our concerns but if enough of us come together maybe we can change that.

Pods1973 that's another thing crafting for a really useful spell like deer knight would helpful earlier on as well

Explorer
Jun 13, 2009
99
I absolutely agree death and life need earlier aoe attacks. Frankly its not fair and balanced with the other schools.The life spell should be searaph updated so she hits all enemies. . By the new life aoe for level 108 should be Mother Nature she attacks all enemies dealing 1350 to 1500 damage to all enemies and places a -50 percent weakness on all targets and one life dispel on all targets that would be An epic addition to the life aoe attack for new levels.

Mason Greenbane exalted

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
DarkWIZard98x on Jan 28, 2015 wrote:
I absolutely agree death and life need earlier aoe attacks. Frankly its not fair and balanced with the other schools.The life spell should be searaph updated so she hits all enemies. . By the new life aoe for level 108 should be Mother Nature she attacks all enemies dealing 1350 to 1500 damage to all enemies and places a -50 percent weakness on all targets and one life dispel on all targets that would be An epic addition to the life aoe attack for new levels.

Mason Greenbane exalted
getting an AoE at L108 does NOT solve the problem. Adding in a lower level AoE would solve the problem. Rolling back seraph to an AoE like it's been talked about before, or adding in Potboiler would work as well.

Ultimately, the issue at hand, is that Life and Death have to wait a LOT longer in order to get a guaranteed, school taught spell (which leaves Deer Knight out of the discussion). I've always thought that death could convert Skeletal Pirate to be an AoE, 5 pips, 350 damage, no life sap. I feel this would be a nice spell that wouldnt be OP and be the answer that Necromancers are looking for

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
415
On top of having to wait till level 58 for their AOE spell, life wizards are have the weakest attacks. Makes me feel like Jet Li in the Expendables. "It's difficult, my life, I have to work harder then the rest..... because I'm smaller"

Survivor
Aug 27, 2014
7
Exactly!! However, the only way this will happen is if everyone who views this post comments and agrees to what has been said. It doesn't matter if you aren't or don't have a life or death wizard. This is about a community standing together to get KI to consider this change for the benefit of all players.

Note: If there is anyone who believes life and death wizards should not have an AOE damage spell earlier on in game think about how you could have made it without one (to , , , , & wizards who may disagree)

If you are a life or death wizard who doesn't think this is an issue please state why

Survivor
Jul 14, 2013
1
To be honest, I think death and life do get the short straw on the AOE hits. There are a few solutions. There is a life AOE hit that is low pip and seems to be what I would consider fair. This is the treasure card that was available in the B.O.X.E.S limited time quest. I cannot remember the name of it, but it was teh pot belly stove guy. It was four pips and low damage compared to the other classes AOE hit. I do think a deer knight like spell for death would also be a good help. However, I would not make it a draining attack.

Now the other way that this could be fixed is simply by using training points and choose to study balance or myth up to their AOE hit. While you wouldn't get the full bonus of your classes damage bonus, you could still learn the spell and use an enchantment on it to increase the damage.

I do have another recommendation reguarding spells. I think that maybe some of the tc only spells be made regular cards (like fire/ice shark, fire/ice Kraken, Life minotaur, etc) as well as maybe the Death and Life class AOE spells by placing them as a reward for doing Wysteria. As it stands, Wysteria really doesn't offer much to wizards. Unlike Grizzlehiem which overs a spell on completion or Wintertusk which offers another spell as well as some of the best gear next to waterworks that can be crafted. Wysteria only gives you a spiral cup that you can put in one of your houses. Also, it has similar but different schools. This is the perfect excuse for them to have a spell of your class that fits into your school, but not offered by the Wizard City instructors. I think it would be cool to get them even if you have to use a training point to get them regardless of school.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Dakota Death on Jan 26, 2015 wrote:
Naw, all the schools have some strong and weak things. Life and death wait longer for an AoE, but get two of the best in the game. Only Death has drains. Only Life has team heals and a trained healing boost. It's fair enough. We shouldn't all be the same.
My sentiments exactly! If all the schools were similar what would be the point. As things are now there's just enough variance in the types of spells that a certain degree of strategy is required. The spell structure also promotes cooperation within the game. I have a maxed Life wiz and it wasn't easy getting there but it wasn't impossible. One of the great things about this game is the diversity of the different schools. Once you learn the strengths and weaknesses of the other schools then dueling becomes second nature and you learn to work with what you have. Sure, it would be nice to have an attack-all spell at an earlier level but bottom line is it's not necessary and would add an element of "sameness" that in my opinion would detract from the balance of the game.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
TucsonWizard on Feb 3, 2015 wrote:
My sentiments exactly! If all the schools were similar what would be the point. As things are now there's just enough variance in the types of spells that a certain degree of strategy is required. The spell structure also promotes cooperation within the game. I have a maxed Life wiz and it wasn't easy getting there but it wasn't impossible. One of the great things about this game is the diversity of the different schools. Once you learn the strengths and weaknesses of the other schools then dueling becomes second nature and you learn to work with what you have. Sure, it would be nice to have an attack-all spell at an earlier level but bottom line is it's not necessary and would add an element of "sameness" that in my opinion would detract from the balance of the game.
so then why have MOST schools work "the same" and get them "at the same time"? Why give any school healing other than life? Why give schools DoTs other than fire? Why give minions to schools other than myth? For that fact, why give ANY school beyond the one that gets it first, an AoE? This can be applied to a NUMBER of things. We will have to agree to disagree on the whole "sameness" concept you're talking about.

A+ Student
Dec 11, 2010
1626
Death also can potentially (key word potentially) get an aoe at level 1. (Although it is a fifth pip spell but I have a point)

Life needs the aoe a little bit more, we have zero options for aoe until level 58. Death at least CAN get one before 38 (with a little patience)

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
945
dayerider on Feb 3, 2015 wrote:
so then why have MOST schools work "the same" and get them "at the same time"? Why give any school healing other than life? Why give schools DoTs other than fire? Why give minions to schools other than myth? For that fact, why give ANY school beyond the one that gets it first, an AoE? This can be applied to a NUMBER of things. We will have to agree to disagree on the whole "sameness" concept you're talking about.
I agree with you, but I have a correction: Death isn't the DoT school, Fire is.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
lewski on Feb 4, 2015 wrote:
I agree with you, but I have a correction: Death isn't the DoT school, Fire is.
lol yes, I corrected it after I posted it... silly brain working faster than my hands could type :)

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
dayerider on Feb 3, 2015 wrote:
so then why have MOST schools work "the same" and get them "at the same time"? Why give any school healing other than life? Why give schools DoTs other than fire? Why give minions to schools other than myth? For that fact, why give ANY school beyond the one that gets it first, an AoE? This can be applied to a NUMBER of things. We will have to agree to disagree on the whole "sameness" concept you're talking about.
As far as schools working "the same" and getting spells "at the same time", there are certain aspects of the game that from a programming standpoint are probably greatly simplified by incorporating these time-line similarities. Basically however, this is merely a tool to allow for equality in leveling. By your argument regarding schools other than life getting healing spells you might as well be stating "why does Life get attack spells?"
I understand your point and as a Life wizard player it would be nice to have the AoE at an earlier level but I still don't think the OP's argument is strong enough for Life and Death AoE spells... so you're correct, I agree that we'll have to disagree lol!
One thing I'll have to say about AoE spells... my first wizard was a Life. I played that wizard exclusively until about lvl 65 before I even started a wizard of a different school. That being said, I really had no concept of how much easier things might have been if I'd had an AoE spell prior to Forest Lord. Actually it gave me a greater sense of accomplishment knowing I'd come as far as I had with that limitation. I still agree it would have been nice to have one but Life (and Death) can be played efficiently without one and that's my main argument.

Defender
Aug 04, 2014
147
Death is an amazing school and an early AOE would just make it too over powered. It is already the most popular school so people can obviously work around it. Life is also an amazing school but is not made for hitting. Life is made for healing. I've never seen a life wizard being the main hitter in a group.

Survivor
Jan 27, 2012
37
SamanthaWillowdrea... on Feb 7, 2015 wrote:
Death is an amazing school and an early AOE would just make it too over powered. It is already the most popular school so people can obviously work around it. Life is also an amazing school but is not made for hitting. Life is made for healing. I've never seen a life wizard being the main hitter in a group.
You clearly haven't seen me fight.
Life is made for doing whatever those who use it want to do, and don't insinuate that you know better than any Theurgist what their purpose is.
The way I have it set up right now, I have 65% damage boost, as opposed to having a ton of resistance, and virtually 100% power pips. That means I fancy myself co-healer and Supreme Forest Lorder of any multiplayer battles I take part in, because since I have enough pips to do a ton of magic, I hit hard and can heal hard.
FYI, I would absolutely support a POWERFUL AoE added to Life earlier in the game, I feel like we deserve one and to make up for the fact that we haven't had one for so long, KI should make it extra strong.

Survivor
Jun 08, 2013
21
Not sure how many storms or other schools would appreciate not having a aoe early. It's the time it takes to run a battle, unless you waste power pips on off school tc's. A lot of the answers sound like people expect a life wizard just to follow around someone else healing them. Sometimes you need to actually do your own questing. Not just following someone around.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
tesla3phase on Feb 8, 2015 wrote:
Not sure how many storms or other schools would appreciate not having a aoe early. It's the time it takes to run a battle, unless you waste power pips on off school tc's. A lot of the answers sound like people expect a life wizard just to follow around someone else healing them. Sometimes you need to actually do your own questing. Not just following someone around.
unfortunately, Life school has been pigeon-holed into nothing more than a wandering medic (just as balance is a buffing school and not one to do anything other than support, storm is the ONLY hammer allowed, ice is the ONLY defender allowed, etc). Those of us who have actually played a life wizard, with the right gear, know they can be butt kickers in their own right

Hero
Sep 07, 2011
761
Mr Talon on Jan 29, 2015 wrote:
On top of having to wait till level 58 for their AOE spell, life wizards are have the weakest attacks. Makes me feel like Jet Li in the Expendables. "It's difficult, my life, I have to work harder then the rest..... because I'm smaller"
Life can hit very hard. At high levels it's one of the best hammers.

If you want an early AoE train myth to frog or farm Loremaster for Deer, but really you don't need it. Once you get Forest Lord you are golden.

Survivor
Jun 08, 2013
21
There's a lot of good storms out there who can make it on their own. But there are a lot what probably couldn't make it past Marleybone unless they have a support team following them around. If you would give early aoe's to death and life wizards the support team for storms would dwindle.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
Gemma Luna on Feb 10, 2015 wrote:
Life can hit very hard. At high levels it's one of the best hammers.

If you want an early AoE train myth to frog or farm Loremaster for Deer, but really you don't need it. Once you get Forest Lord you are golden.
the complaint is GETTING to forest lord and scarecrow spells, not that those two arent great spells. Not only that, but when you figure death's AoE is 7 pips and Life's is 8 pips, yes, you get it, but that's a long wait in pips (before we can use the new pip decks too) before we can finally hit. Yes, we can blade up etc, but still, it's a long wait to hit

1