Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Balance School is Unbalanced.

2
AuthorMessage
Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on May 6, 2015 wrote:
There is very good reason for it. If everyone gets everything the same at every level, it pretty much makes all schools the same. The game play is balanced to allow for different playing styles for every school. It also makes replaying the game with different schools a different challenge and experience. Each school is unique and one strategy will not work for all. Every new school you play is a unique game, not just repeating it with a different name/class.
Umm...nope. I think there's been some sort of misunderstanding here.

Getting blades and traps and such at the same level wouldn't make all schools alike.

There would still be a very large difference between each school-
life with heals, death with drains, storm with highest damage, fire with dot and hot,
etc. etc. we've been over this.

You already know all this,
so I'm genuinely confused as to why you would make that claim.

I think one major part that is being overlooked here is that each school has it's own mechanic
(again, heals, drains, etc.)
and for balance, that mechanic is being able to use a weaker version of the other schools spells.
Weak shields, but shields of every type. Weak attacks, but attacks of every type, and so on and so forth.

it's very possible I'm misunderstanding something so I'm just trying to clarify,
You say by giving balance wizards a learnable spirit blast the game will be made unbalanced-
and that's where I get a little confused.

Taking advantage of type weaknesses is balance's primary mechanic-
just like healing is life's mechanic, and drains are death's mechanic.

That's what they excel at, and by bemoaning about their ability to do that,
you might as well be saying death shouldn't have drains, and life shouldn't have heals.

At least, that's how I perceive it, please just assume there's an implied IMO at the end of every claim I make.

Also- since balance mobs are basically a little bit of everything,
just like balance wizards, should they be resistant or vulnerable to spirit or elemental damage?

Mobs are weak to spells that are their opposite, correct?
but balance has no opposite.

Logically speaking, balance mobs should be resistant to balance spells,
and vulnerable to nothing, in other words, no boost with spirit spells or elemental spells.

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
Mister Peanut on May 6, 2015 wrote:
Umm...nope. I think there's been some sort of misunderstanding here.

Getting blades and traps and such at the same level wouldn't make all schools alike.

There would still be a very large difference between each school-
life with heals, death with drains, storm with highest damage, fire with dot and hot,
etc. etc. we've been over this.

You already know all this,
so I'm genuinely confused as to why you would make that claim.

I think one major part that is being overlooked here is that each school has it's own mechanic
(again, heals, drains, etc.)
and for balance, that mechanic is being able to use a weaker version of the other schools spells.
Weak shields, but shields of every type. Weak attacks, but attacks of every type, and so on and so forth.

it's very possible I'm misunderstanding something so I'm just trying to clarify,
You say by giving balance wizards a learnable spirit blast the game will be made unbalanced-
and that's where I get a little confused.

Taking advantage of type weaknesses is balance's primary mechanic-
just like healing is life's mechanic, and drains are death's mechanic.

That's what they excel at, and by bemoaning about their ability to do that,
you might as well be saying death shouldn't have drains, and life shouldn't have heals.

At least, that's how I perceive it, please just assume there's an implied IMO at the end of every claim I make.

Also- since balance mobs are basically a little bit of everything,
just like balance wizards, should they be resistant or vulnerable to spirit or elemental damage?

Mobs are weak to spells that are their opposite, correct?
but balance has no opposite.

Logically speaking, balance mobs should be resistant to balance spells,
and vulnerable to nothing, in other words, no boost with spirit spells or elemental spells.
I have to admit, when I first discovered Balance mobs' weakness to Spiritual spells, I was a little confused. I just assumed that, because they weren't "original" schools, and were created from Balance only "brings to Balance" the Elemental schools. However, I think that theory is debunked, as Balance wizards can learn Spiritual Blades, Traps, Shields, Spears, and Chimera. And also, for those who remember the start of Krokotopia, after you defeat Biti Nirini and reclaim his tablet for Professor Winthrop, he states that the Krokonomicon is the most powerful source of the balance between Life and Death. The only "missing" school here would be Myth, but Storm has it covered by being opposites. In case you're wondering how a storm counters a myth, it's that in real life Storm would be science and Myth would be history. Science is all about studying the future, while Myth is about studying the past. Also, Storm relies in facts, while Myth relies on just that: myths. Back on topic though if the Order of the Fang are all Balance Kroks, and they created the Krokonomicon, they have found a way to balance both Elemental and Spiritual schools. So IMO, the only reason why Balance would be weak to Spiritual schools is game mechanics. The only schools Balance mobs should be weak to IMO are . However, there are no "direct" attacks for as far as I know, and I'm unable to comment on because I have yet to unlock Shadow Spells.

In conclusion, the only reason I can think of, why Balance mobs are weak to , are game mechanics.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
Max Sterling on May 6, 2015 wrote:
I have to admit, when I first discovered Balance mobs' weakness to Spiritual spells, I was a little confused. I just assumed that, because they weren't "original" schools, and were created from Balance only "brings to Balance" the Elemental schools. However, I think that theory is debunked, as Balance wizards can learn Spiritual Blades, Traps, Shields, Spears, and Chimera. And also, for those who remember the start of Krokotopia, after you defeat Biti Nirini and reclaim his tablet for Professor Winthrop, he states that the Krokonomicon is the most powerful source of the balance between Life and Death. The only "missing" school here would be Myth, but Storm has it covered by being opposites. In case you're wondering how a storm counters a myth, it's that in real life Storm would be science and Myth would be history. Science is all about studying the future, while Myth is about studying the past. Also, Storm relies in facts, while Myth relies on just that: myths. Back on topic though if the Order of the Fang are all Balance Kroks, and they created the Krokonomicon, they have found a way to balance both Elemental and Spiritual schools. So IMO, the only reason why Balance would be weak to Spiritual schools is game mechanics. The only schools Balance mobs should be weak to IMO are . However, there are no "direct" attacks for as far as I know, and I'm unable to comment on because I have yet to unlock Shadow Spells.

In conclusion, the only reason I can think of, why Balance mobs are weak to , are game mechanics.
but that's just it-
let's review game mechanics here.
Actual game mechanics.

When struck by an offensive spell of the opposite school, the damage done is boosted.
(Ice and Fire, Myth and Storm, Death and Life)
Higher rank enemies have higher resistance.

But balance is without argument a school without opposite.
Hence the lack of balance prisms.

So in actuality, in accordance with the rules of the game-
balance should not be weak to spiritual attacks or elemental attacks, nor sun, moon, star or any other school.
No opposite = no boost.

When struck by an offensive spell of the same school, the damage done is reduced.
Higher ranks have higher resistance. So it fits that balance mobs are resistant to balance spells.

Balance is inarguably a school that draws on both spiritual and elementals schools.
There's plenty of definite evidence, but I don't feel like digging for it and presenting it.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Mister Peanut on May 7, 2015 wrote:
but that's just it-
let's review game mechanics here.
Actual game mechanics.

When struck by an offensive spell of the opposite school, the damage done is boosted.
(Ice and Fire, Myth and Storm, Death and Life)
Higher rank enemies have higher resistance.

But balance is without argument a school without opposite.
Hence the lack of balance prisms.

So in actuality, in accordance with the rules of the game-
balance should not be weak to spiritual attacks or elemental attacks, nor sun, moon, star or any other school.
No opposite = no boost.

When struck by an offensive spell of the same school, the damage done is reduced.
Higher ranks have higher resistance. So it fits that balance mobs are resistant to balance spells.

Balance is inarguably a school that draws on both spiritual and elementals schools.
There's plenty of definite evidence, but I don't feel like digging for it and presenting it.
Boosts are not just opposites. That's only true at low levels. At upper levels creatures boost to multiple schools.

boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on May 8, 2015 wrote:
Boosts are not just opposites. That's only true at low levels. At upper levels creatures boost to multiple schools.

boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
boosts to &.
Interesting. I was not aware of that.
I wonder what the logic behind those match ups are...
this game just keeps me guessing :P

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
Mister Peanut on May 8, 2015 wrote:
Interesting. I was not aware of that.
I wonder what the logic behind those match ups are...
this game just keeps me guessing :P
Of course Seethe42 ! I remember boosting on Myth dudes in Celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon. I'll try to explain the logic behind those Mister Peanut. This is at least how I see it:

boosts because if people are frozen, or enter a state of stasis, they can live for a LONG time. So if Ancient Myths, like the Minotaur, were to be frozen in its time, and unfrozen at present time, it would make a Myth real. Hence ". . . and myths, are the shadowy form of thoughts made real."

boosts because if you have a nice garden you have personally plant and loved, and then comes a freaking Hurricane Category 5 it will totally wreck your garden. Not only that but people and animals (well, people are animals but whatever) alike are left homeless.

boosts because . . . umm . . . storms have water on them? And Fire and Water rivalry? And Dragons hate Tritons?

boosts because the Life School is about preserving AND creating Life. So if a wildfire were to burn a forest to ashes, a friendly Life Wizard could heal it up.

boosts because unnatural cold is related with Death. And I'd say Frost Giant cold is a very unnatural cold. *spine shivers*

boosts because . . . umm . . . Myths . . . always end in killing? I mean think about it: Trojan Horse, the Minotaur, Earthquakes, trolls, Medusa, King Midas. All these things are in the Myth School, and in their stories they are at least very hostile.

Hope this helped

Survivor
Dec 19, 2010
2
Well I've been looking at this and I can see from the Darkmoor gear that balance has pretty good stats. I've also looked at this boost thing you guys are talking about even though balance "doesn't" have a opposite school it technically does because isn't balance a combination of and ? Or have I missed something here because I've been in a few fights where those schools have boosted a balance mob and when the mob were to attack minion, henchman [when it was balance]. The 6 elemental and spirit schools didn't boost them.
I don't know maybe I've just made this situation worse and too confusing.
-Tristan Skullflame
Sorry in advanced.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
Max Sterling on May 8, 2015 wrote:
Of course Seethe42 ! I remember boosting on Myth dudes in Celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon. I'll try to explain the logic behind those Mister Peanut. This is at least how I see it:

boosts because if people are frozen, or enter a state of stasis, they can live for a LONG time. So if Ancient Myths, like the Minotaur, were to be frozen in its time, and unfrozen at present time, it would make a Myth real. Hence ". . . and myths, are the shadowy form of thoughts made real."

boosts because if you have a nice garden you have personally plant and loved, and then comes a freaking Hurricane Category 5 it will totally wreck your garden. Not only that but people and animals (well, people are animals but whatever) alike are left homeless.

boosts because . . . umm . . . storms have water on them? And Fire and Water rivalry? And Dragons hate Tritons?

boosts because the Life School is about preserving AND creating Life. So if a wildfire were to burn a forest to ashes, a friendly Life Wizard could heal it up.

boosts because unnatural cold is related with Death. And I'd say Frost Giant cold is a very unnatural cold. *spine shivers*

boosts because . . . umm . . . Myths . . . always end in killing? I mean think about it: Trojan Horse, the Minotaur, Earthquakes, trolls, Medusa, King Midas. All these things are in the Myth School, and in their stories they are at least very hostile.

Hope this helped
No...
no, not in the slightest.

However, I very much appreciate the effort.
So thank you.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
Just for the record, despite all the interesting and somewhat valid arguments made against this change-I still think a balance between spirit and elemental spells is called for and would be most appropriate.

I'm not expecting it- but I do think it would be a nice, non game breaking change and would be delighted to see it implemented in the future.

Perhaps there is a way to make this happen and change a few other things without really upsetting the perceived "gameplay balance" that I don't really understand apparently.

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
Mister Peanut on May 19, 2015 wrote:
Just for the record, despite all the interesting and somewhat valid arguments made against this change-I still think a balance between spirit and elemental spells is called for and would be most appropriate.

I'm not expecting it- but I do think it would be a nice, non game breaking change and would be delighted to see it implemented in the future.

Perhaps there is a way to make this happen and change a few other things without really upsetting the perceived "gameplay balance" that I don't really understand apparently.
Yes, I still think balance between and spells is necessary. And maybe some decent spells. Most people think Balance spells above lv. 50 or lv. 60 (not sure where the complaints are coming from) are useless, so they enchant old ones like Judgement and Sandstorm. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I myself like most things to remain the "old way". .

Survivor
Apr 25, 2009
6
OK i would like to point out that balance does gain the myths share of minions
as balance gets spectral minon thats three minions right there also i would really want to point out as and unrelated two cents that.

I wish myth minions are more useful at higher lvls on the fact that when you get high up there they almost become a waste when fighting people as there health becomes minascule to that of enemeies also this is a little much of a habit of game mechanics as myth could freely use there minions vs a player but it annoys me that i can't use vassanji in pvp battles

and i'm a lvl 79 so i know the basis of my arguments but i can always be proved wrong

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
pony knight on May 23, 2015 wrote:
OK i would like to point out that balance does gain the myths share of minions
as balance gets spectral minon thats three minions right there also i would really want to point out as and unrelated two cents that.

I wish myth minions are more useful at higher lvls on the fact that when you get high up there they almost become a waste when fighting people as there health becomes minascule to that of enemeies also this is a little much of a habit of game mechanics as myth could freely use there minions vs a player but it annoys me that i can't use vassanji in pvp battles

and i'm a lvl 79 so i know the basis of my arguments but i can always be proved wrong
spectral minions are hun.
balance doesn't get a minion spell.

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
Mister Peanut on May 29, 2015 wrote:
spectral minions are hun.
balance doesn't get a minion spell.
I may be mistaken, but I think Pony Knight means that Spectral Minion () counts as 3 different minions, and that along with the minion you get at a high level, it would make 4 minions, while gets 5 minions. However, I think I may be mistaken and just have made it unclear.

On another note, I'm bored so I'll invent a new spell:

Spiritual Minion - 3 pips - Summon Random , , or minion.

Helpful Satyr
Health: 5,000
Function: Healing
Spells: Centaur, Forest Lord, Life Shield, Death Shield, Sprite, Fairy (life version) Satyr, Guiding Lig, Triage, Sanctuary

Restless Wraith
Health: 4,800
Function: Blade-Stacked Attacks
Spells: Death Shield, Life Shield, Wraith, Skeletal Dragon, Doctor Von's Monster, Death Blade, Death Trap, Feint, Infection, Pacify (or whatever death version is called)

Charmed Minotaur
Health: 4,500
Function: Ward/Charm Removal
Spells: Cleanse Charm, Cleanse Ward, Steal Charm, Steal Ward, Minotaur, Earthquake, Orthurs, Myth Shield, Storm Shield

Well, agree, disagree, and feel free to modify as you see fit.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Max Sterling on May 31, 2015 wrote:
I may be mistaken, but I think Pony Knight means that Spectral Minion () counts as 3 different minions, and that along with the minion you get at a high level, it would make 4 minions, while gets 5 minions. However, I think I may be mistaken and just have made it unclear.

On another note, I'm bored so I'll invent a new spell:

Spiritual Minion - 3 pips - Summon Random , , or minion.

Helpful Satyr
Health: 5,000
Function: Healing
Spells: Centaur, Forest Lord, Life Shield, Death Shield, Sprite, Fairy (life version) Satyr, Guiding Lig, Triage, Sanctuary

Restless Wraith
Health: 4,800
Function: Blade-Stacked Attacks
Spells: Death Shield, Life Shield, Wraith, Skeletal Dragon, Doctor Von's Monster, Death Blade, Death Trap, Feint, Infection, Pacify (or whatever death version is called)

Charmed Minotaur
Health: 4,500
Function: Ward/Charm Removal
Spells: Cleanse Charm, Cleanse Ward, Steal Charm, Steal Ward, Minotaur, Earthquake, Orthurs, Myth Shield, Storm Shield

Well, agree, disagree, and feel free to modify as you see fit.
Those seem a bit overpowered for 3 pips. I'd like to see them more support oriented if they did this idea. Death could use, Dark Pact, Empower, & Sacrifice as well

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
seethe42 on May 31, 2015 wrote:
Those seem a bit overpowered for 3 pips. I'd like to see them more support oriented if they did this idea. Death could use, Dark Pact, Empower, & Sacrifice as well
Well, when I post ideas for new spells, I normally look at the list of spells for each school, but I didn't this time. So, maybe about 5-6 pips and those 3 spells for the Death minion?

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on May 31, 2015 wrote:
Those seem a bit overpowered for 3 pips. I'd like to see them more support oriented if they did this idea. Death could use, Dark Pact, Empower, & Sacrifice as well
Yeah, I had the same impression-
then again, to date, the spirit spells have always been more potent than the elemental ones.

I was just thinking it would summon a low level spirit minion at random,
like the fairy guardian sprite or whatever,
the minotaur or the
4 pip death minion (the x death minion that appears with 4 pips)

Explorer
Jan 15, 2013
55
Mister Peanut on Apr 29, 2015 wrote:
Elemental Shield- Fire, Ice and Storm -50% damage
Spirit Shield- Life, Death and Myth -50% damage

Elemental Diffuse- Dispel next outgoing Fire, Ice and Storm spell
Spirit Diffuse- Dispel Next outgoing Life, Death and Myth spell

Notice how both of these sets of spells involve all 6 schools?
3 on each side- perfectly "balanced"

Now look at these:

Spectral Minion- Summon (at random) a fire, ice or storm minion.
Spectral Blast- Deal (at random) fire, ice or storm damage.
Hydra- Same as spectral blast but stronger and all three instead of random.

See the problem?
The "spectral" spells are "elemental" and there's no "spirit" counterpart to make it even.

Does this make anyone else go OCD crazy?
Just feels so wrong to me...
Like many others have said, there is a Spirit Blast and Chimera, but what bugs me is this:

thing in Balance: Helping and Availing hands
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Maybe Hydra and Chimera attacking not all at once to break a tower shield?
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Elemental shield and Spirit shield
thing in : Nothing.

Okay, so is supposed to be every school balanced, yet it is only balanced in 3 schools, ,, and .
I hope that gets 1 Dot to match , 1 drain spell to match , and I don't know what to match storm...

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
ChrissyFlower on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Like many others have said, there is a Spirit Blast and Chimera, but what bugs me is this:

thing in Balance: Helping and Availing hands
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Maybe Hydra and Chimera attacking not all at once to break a tower shield?
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Elemental shield and Spirit shield
thing in : Nothing.

Okay, so is supposed to be every school balanced, yet it is only balanced in 3 schools, ,, and .
I hope that gets 1 Dot to match , 1 drain spell to match , and I don't know what to match storm...
I'll try to answer those questions:

: Well having high damage spells isn't an option, so maybe a spell involving chance?

: As of now Death is still the only school with drains, so maybe something healing-preventing?

: You're right on that. No DoT on Balance yet. However thre have been people that have suggested a Balance DoT that does random () damage.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
ChrissyFlower on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Like many others have said, there is a Spirit Blast and Chimera, but what bugs me is this:

thing in Balance: Helping and Availing hands
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Maybe Hydra and Chimera attacking not all at once to break a tower shield?
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Elemental shield and Spirit shield
thing in : Nothing.

Okay, so is supposed to be every school balanced, yet it is only balanced in 3 schools, ,, and .
I hope that gets 1 Dot to match , 1 drain spell to match , and I don't know what to match storm...
I agree- Balance is supposed to be all in one-
I personally think it needs a total rehaul so that it encompasses tactics from every school, in addition to a spiritual and elemental balance, but still having an equal footing with other schools- the problem?

That would be a very, very big change and would freak people out,
not to mention that would be some serious fine tuning, wouldn't be easy at all I imagine...

but yeah, I agree.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
ChrissyFlower on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Like many others have said, there is a Spirit Blast and Chimera, but what bugs me is this:

thing in Balance: Helping and Availing hands
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Maybe Hydra and Chimera attacking not all at once to break a tower shield?
thing in : Nothing
thing in : Elemental shield and Spirit shield
thing in : Nothing.

Okay, so is supposed to be every school balanced, yet it is only balanced in 3 schools, ,, and .
I hope that gets 1 Dot to match , 1 drain spell to match , and I don't know what to match storm...
thing in : Negative damage charms
thing in : Negative accuracy charms
thing in : Spectral Blast & Accuracy charm

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
seethe42 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
thing in : Negative damage charms
thing in : Negative accuracy charms
thing in : Spectral Blast & Accuracy charm
Yup, sometimes people think the only Death thing is draining, the only storm thing is damage, Life is healing, so and so on.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
thing in : Negative damage charms
thing in : Negative accuracy charms
thing in : Spectral Blast & Accuracy charm
Aww...yes, that is indeed true.
Not the main selling point of death, storm or fire-
but among them.

2