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All I Feel The 2nd Arc Needs...

AuthorMessage
Historian
May 06, 2009
630
There's all this debate and hate over the 2nd Arc. The story doesn't make sense to some or the difficulty is too much or both. KI has done a great job with the 2nd Arc, in my opinion. Some players can make it, but we should push for more to experience this , instead of those few who can. Plus, with the rate of difficulty, where can we go for the 3rd Arc? Tri-pips on mobs doesn't sound entertaining. Mobs with +10K and bosses with +50K still using 7-pips shows no mix-up and simply longer battles. You don't leave many options for us to play.
Redoing gear is time consuming as there's more gear than mobs. Adding 2-Pip is great, but, seeing as how KI runs gear, that would have an adverse effect on PvP (when doesn't it?) or decrease the power of our wands. Redoing the 2nd Arc is not an option (what a waste of 4 years that would be).

All the 2nd Arc needs is a gradual rise in difficulty. This leaves more players to go through the arc and plenty of difficulty to use later on. The community has proven to me that we can handle mobs starting off with 5 power pips at the max. Taking that into consideration, here's my idea:

In Celestia, all mobs and bosses from the Survey Camp to the Grotto would start off with 1 Pip to better flow off of Dragonspyre, then 1 Power pip everywhere else. The preview quest to Celestia would be readded to take a slow start to Celestia. The warehouse would be like Big Ben: 2 mobs will appear for the first few floors. Then 3 as we near the top. Cheating bosses came in way too strong and need to back off. The set up of the first and last cheating boss is good, but need tweaking. I'll explain this later. No one will have Crit. or Block in or before Celestia. Period.

Elites will be more offensive, as in attacking more, throughout the entire 2nd arc.

In Zafaria, all bosses and mobs from Baobab Market, Savannah, and Zamunda would still start off with 1 Power Pip with no Crit. or Block. Going forward, mobs will start off with 1 Power pip and 1 pip. All Bosses will start off with 2 power pips forward. Belloq will no longer cast Ra when not hit a round, but a regular Power Nova instead. Bosses and mobs will begin to use Crit. (about +50?) but have no Block.

In Avalon, all bosses and mobs from High Road to the Wild will start off with 1 Powr Pip and 1 pip and Crit. but not Block. Everywhere else, mobs will begin to use 2 Power Pips and have hightened Crit. as well as have Block. Bosses will start with 2 Power Pips and a Pip. Most cheating bosses here are on par with the change in Zafaria. Jabborwock's Meteor strike would be tone down to 1000. Collect quests would be slightly easier.

In Azteca, all bosses and mobs from Three Winds to Saltmeadow Swamp will start off with 2 Power Pips (one extra for Bosses). Crit. and Block is hightened slightly. Everywhere else, they will start off with 2 Power Pips and 1 pip (3 Power pips for Bosses). The 2nd Floor of all major Pyramids will be replaced with a puzzle. Collect quests are slightly easier.

Historian
May 06, 2009
630
Cunning Finnigan S... on Sep 1, 2013 wrote:
There's all this debate and hate over the 2nd Arc. The story doesn't make sense to some or the difficulty is too much or both. KI has done a great job with the 2nd Arc, in my opinion. Some players can make it, but we should push for more to experience this , instead of those few who can. Plus, with the rate of difficulty, where can we go for the 3rd Arc? Tri-pips on mobs doesn't sound entertaining. Mobs with +10K and bosses with +50K still using 7-pips shows no mix-up and simply longer battles. You don't leave many options for us to play.
Redoing gear is time consuming as there's more gear than mobs. Adding 2-Pip is great, but, seeing as how KI runs gear, that would have an adverse effect on PvP (when doesn't it?) or decrease the power of our wands. Redoing the 2nd Arc is not an option (what a waste of 4 years that would be).

All the 2nd Arc needs is a gradual rise in difficulty. This leaves more players to go through the arc and plenty of difficulty to use later on. The community has proven to me that we can handle mobs starting off with 5 power pips at the max. Taking that into consideration, here's my idea:

In Celestia, all mobs and bosses from the Survey Camp to the Grotto would start off with 1 Pip to better flow off of Dragonspyre, then 1 Power pip everywhere else. The preview quest to Celestia would be readded to take a slow start to Celestia. The warehouse would be like Big Ben: 2 mobs will appear for the first few floors. Then 3 as we near the top. Cheating bosses came in way too strong and need to back off. The set up of the first and last cheating boss is good, but need tweaking. I'll explain this later. No one will have Crit. or Block in or before Celestia. Period.

Elites will be more offensive, as in attacking more, throughout the entire 2nd arc.

In Zafaria, all bosses and mobs from Baobab Market, Savannah, and Zamunda would still start off with 1 Power Pip with no Crit. or Block. Going forward, mobs will start off with 1 Power pip and 1 pip. All Bosses will start off with 2 power pips forward. Belloq will no longer cast Ra when not hit a round, but a regular Power Nova instead. Bosses and mobs will begin to use Crit. (about +50?) but have no Block.

In Avalon, all bosses and mobs from High Road to the Wild will start off with 1 Powr Pip and 1 pip and Crit. but not Block. Everywhere else, mobs will begin to use 2 Power Pips and have hightened Crit. as well as have Block. Bosses will start with 2 Power Pips and a Pip. Most cheating bosses here are on par with the change in Zafaria. Jabborwock's Meteor strike would be tone down to 1000. Collect quests would be slightly easier.

In Azteca, all bosses and mobs from Three Winds to Saltmeadow Swamp will start off with 2 Power Pips (one extra for Bosses). Crit. and Block is hightened slightly. Everywhere else, they will start off with 2 Power Pips and 1 pip (3 Power pips for Bosses). The 2nd Floor of all major Pyramids will be replaced with a puzzle. Collect quests are slightly easier.
Other changes to Azteca would include:
-Within those major Pyramids (Black Sun, Storm Eye, Mother Moon, and Falling Sky), with the change in the 2nd floor to being a puzzle, answer the puzzle incorrectly, and the original minions that guarded the floor will appear
-The Pyramid of the Storm Eye will loose 2 mobs per floor as having 4 mobs per floor is not conssitent with the 2 mobs per floor in all other Pyramids.

The Fifth World-knowing KI will follow with the current difficulty rise (in this case first few mobs start off with 6 pips then 7 half through the world. Most bosses would start off with 7 pips throughout the whole arc with health as low as possibly 15K to as high as 30K), I'm considering a pre-suggestion on the world before it's release (as I already know what some of the difficulty will be like based off of past worlds). So this world too would be changed from the anicipated challenge to the one I'm suggesting. The first 2 combat areas would have mobs starting off with 2 Power Pips (2 Power Pips and a Pip for Bosses). Every else of that world, mobs would start of with 3 powerpips while Bosses will have 3 power pips and a pip.

Health of mobs and bosses have definitely sky-rocked from what was found in the 2nd Arc. In my mind, after beating Malistaire who only had 10,000 health, I always thought the 2nd Arc would end with a villian with only 20,000 health, twice what was found in the 1st Arc. However, the health of mobs and bosses is almost 3x that amount (Cronus, Gladiator Dimachaerus, and Eirikur Axebreaker (Tier 5) with 30,000 health, which leads me to believe that the next world will hold some bosses similar to this caliber (minus the cheats)). I would suggestion that the health of all enemies in the 2nd Arc be adjusted so the final world can have bosses (especially our sneaky friend Morganthe) to have health closer to the 20,000-25,000 range.

Critical and Block have been the subjects of causing the reason for the game "going-down" (with Wizard's 5th Birthday and all that's hard to believe) because a lot of players don't get the concept. If you don't get all technical with it, it's very simple to understand, imo. Critical just makes your spells do double damage after all the buffs have been calculated (that just means once your spells have been powered with any buff you put on (blades, traps, etc,) then you critical for twice the expected damage) Block just gets rid of that double-trouble power and makes the spell regular. Think of these as damage and resist. The more, the better.

This is just my suggestion for the arc itself, because I know there has been a lot of...unsatisfactory feedback from a good number of players. After Aquila was released, I'm rather possitive this is the challenge KI wants for this (and possible future) arcs as they would have just gone gradual with the arc anyway. I sort of cross my fingers the next big update this late fall will hold some kind of challenge rebalance, but hey, it's their game.

Survivor
Nov 14, 2008
38
If all of these ideas are put into the game, it cease to be any challenge whatsoever and people would get bored with the game very quickly. The difficulty has been a challenge for the casual SOLO player, though it's nothing a team of 2 (casual players) can't handle. I agree that when bosses have 50k health and more, the game will get very tedious, but they can't change the difficulty of past worlds now. The only they can (and should) do, is introduce better gear, and create worlds similar in difficulty to azteca.

Historian
May 06, 2009
630
Jacob IronEyes on Sep 16, 2013 wrote:
If all of these ideas are put into the game, it cease to be any challenge whatsoever and people would get bored with the game very quickly. The difficulty has been a challenge for the casual SOLO player, though it's nothing a team of 2 (casual players) can't handle. I agree that when bosses have 50k health and more, the game will get very tedious, but they can't change the difficulty of past worlds now. The only they can (and should) do, is introduce better gear, and create worlds similar in difficulty to azteca.
"they can't change the difficulty of past worlds now. "

This is incorrect. KI is able to change anything from past updates or current updates as they please if they see fit or if time and money allows them. In a previous update (April 2013 under Quest and Dungeon Updates of update notes), KI made collect quests in Celestia and Zafaria (worlds finalized years after this update) to be easier than what they used to be. This is a sign that they can change their past quest lines (and why wouldn't they? If there is a proble, they have to come in a fix it wherever it is in the game).

I know this game like the back of my hand, and currently none of my ideas are already in the game. Bosses gain 2 more pips than what mobs start off with (my ideas is they only gain 1 more pip than mobs). As soon as you hit Celestia, Mobs start off with 2 pips equal to our 2. Red Elites start off with 3. In Zafaria, the first mobs you fight start off with 3 pips, Bosses with 2 more than that (5 Pips), and Elites with 3 or 4 if I remember. Both Avalon and Azteca's the first mobs and throughout both worlds start off with a full 4 pips (regular and elite), while the bosses have 2 more than that (6 pips).

What some players have pointed out is that difficulty is leaping. Whether you're in a group or going solo, it's noticable that things have increased faster than what came previously. I have, literally, no problem with the challenges that have been set now. But that's only my opinion. A lot of players are displeased with this jump and has caused conflicted view-points and a seperation of the players. My idea is to simply have these go gradually off of the 1st Arc. I'm not trying to avoid challenge. I'm extremely open to more challenges and I want and expect things to get harder. But they don't have to come as fast, soon, or hard as what's present today, niether to they need to come slower.

I wanted to present a way where we can find a balance. No one really complained about the way the 1st Arc went (aside from a Weakness abuse by the mobs). So had the 2nd Arc still got harder, but remained gradual, many doubt that divides, or complaints would happen. I wanted to explain an idea off of that.

"The only they can (and should) do, is introduce better gear, and create worlds similar in difficulty to azteca."

I absolutely love Azteca. However, I feel like you're only saying this because of Aquila. Aquila was designed as a challenging area to expand on the popularity of the Waterworks as well as give players some pretty wicked gear. No foul in that. But what stopped KI from improving Azteca's gear? I see it as they wouldn't make much of a profit by doing that rather than building a new area, with a new adventure, and new prizes. That's how I see it on the buisness side of that.

I expect worlds after Azteca that raise the level cap to get harder (I think we'll be pretty constant with difficulty going forward), but how many should we force to stay behind and never see these worlds?

Mastermind
Jun 30, 2009
339
Cunning Finnigan S... on Sep 16, 2013 wrote:
"they can't change the difficulty of past worlds now. "

This is incorrect. KI is able to change anything from past updates or current updates as they please if they see fit or if time and money allows them. In a previous update (April 2013 under Quest and Dungeon Updates of update notes), KI made collect quests in Celestia and Zafaria (worlds finalized years after this update) to be easier than what they used to be. This is a sign that they can change their past quest lines (and why wouldn't they? If there is a proble, they have to come in a fix it wherever it is in the game).

I know this game like the back of my hand, and currently none of my ideas are already in the game. Bosses gain 2 more pips than what mobs start off with (my ideas is they only gain 1 more pip than mobs). As soon as you hit Celestia, Mobs start off with 2 pips equal to our 2. Red Elites start off with 3. In Zafaria, the first mobs you fight start off with 3 pips, Bosses with 2 more than that (5 Pips), and Elites with 3 or 4 if I remember. Both Avalon and Azteca's the first mobs and throughout both worlds start off with a full 4 pips (regular and elite), while the bosses have 2 more than that (6 pips).

What some players have pointed out is that difficulty is leaping. Whether you're in a group or going solo, it's noticable that things have increased faster than what came previously. I have, literally, no problem with the challenges that have been set now. But that's only my opinion. A lot of players are displeased with this jump and has caused conflicted view-points and a seperation of the players. My idea is to simply have these go gradually off of the 1st Arc. I'm not trying to avoid challenge. I'm extremely open to more challenges and I want and expect things to get harder. But they don't have to come as fast, soon, or hard as what's present today, niether to they need to come slower.

I wanted to present a way where we can find a balance. No one really complained about the way the 1st Arc went (aside from a Weakness abuse by the mobs). So had the 2nd Arc still got harder, but remained gradual, many doubt that divides, or complaints would happen. I wanted to explain an idea off of that.

"The only they can (and should) do, is introduce better gear, and create worlds similar in difficulty to azteca."

I absolutely love Azteca. However, I feel like you're only saying this because of Aquila. Aquila was designed as a challenging area to expand on the popularity of the Waterworks as well as give players some pretty wicked gear. No foul in that. But what stopped KI from improving Azteca's gear? I see it as they wouldn't make much of a profit by doing that rather than building a new area, with a new adventure, and new prizes. That's how I see it on the buisness side of that.

I expect worlds after Azteca that raise the level cap to get harder (I think we'll be pretty constant with difficulty going forward), but how many should we force to stay behind and never see these worlds?
Cunning,

I like all of the ideas you have about gameplay, save one. In most of the worlds where we are asked to collect x-number of items, I have noticed that some areas (like Krokotopia for example) have dramatically changed from 10 to 6.

While that shouldn't be a big deal, in my opinion it takes away from causing the wizard from exploring the area he/she is in.

Timothy Pearlflower, L90

Btw, was your thread on the 2nd Arc your suggestion, or was it something that KI had as "set in stone"? Also, I made a comment on your thread about tying up many of the loose ends in the 2nd Arc, as well as introducing an idea of a 3rd Arc boss like Malistaire and Morganthe.

I have the thread watched, and would like to see what you think about the comments I made.

Historian
May 06, 2009
630
Promethean oxnhors... on Sep 19, 2013 wrote:
Cunning,

I like all of the ideas you have about gameplay, save one. In most of the worlds where we are asked to collect x-number of items, I have noticed that some areas (like Krokotopia for example) have dramatically changed from 10 to 6.

While that shouldn't be a big deal, in my opinion it takes away from causing the wizard from exploring the area he/she is in.

Timothy Pearlflower, L90

Btw, was your thread on the 2nd Arc your suggestion, or was it something that KI had as "set in stone"? Also, I made a comment on your thread about tying up many of the loose ends in the 2nd Arc, as well as introducing an idea of a 3rd Arc boss like Malistaire and Morganthe.

I have the thread watched, and would like to see what you think about the comments I made.
The post "2nd Arc Finale; Things KI Should Consider" was started by me and includes my ideas. You can see who started it by looking just right of the thread name and you should see it. KI has made a reply there stating they will make more stories after this. I was just posing ideas KI could consider as the story comes to a close. I'll take a look at your suggestions.

See You in the Spiral!