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Adult Avatars

AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
Hi staff.

Can we please have adult avatars? Most players seem to be at least 18 so I'm sure most of us would prefer to play as an adult. I don't want to play as a little kid because to me, it looks silly; and I don't agree with child soldiers. You wouldn't have to change the storyline at all. We can still be 'Young Wizards' but not THAT young. We would be fully grown young adults.

If you just add some height to all the avatars and maybe some adult proportions, it would be done :)

What do you think?

Daniel

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1555
That has a few assumptions to it which I don't think are necessarily true.

1. Just because someone "seems" 18 doesn't mean they are
2. Because you see more "18" level characters that must mean that kids are not playing the game.
3. Not all adults want adult avatars and may want to play a kids game.

I see your confirmation bias and raise you skepticism!

It would be a nice feature for some, but I just don't think its a priority (there are lots of other things I personally would rather see come first.)

Explorer
Mar 04, 2018
62
BanPlastic on May 12, 2021 wrote:
Hi staff.

Can we please have adult avatars? Most players seem to be at least 18 so I'm sure most of us would prefer to play as an adult. I don't want to play as a little kid because to me, it looks silly; and I don't agree with child soldiers. You wouldn't have to change the storyline at all. We can still be 'Young Wizards' but not THAT young. We would be fully grown young adults.

If you just add some height to all the avatars and maybe some adult proportions, it would be done :)

What do you think?

Daniel
I didn't know that a lot of players were that age!

Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
Magic101850416 on May 13, 2021 wrote:
I didn't know that a lot of players were that age!
Most of the friends I made whose age I know of have claimed to be over 18. It could just be that older people are better communicators so they chat more often. Maybe staff can share what the average age of players are.

But regardless of that, I think it's unethical to encourage child soldiers. The game is based on a powerful old man sending small children to fight his battles. How sick is that? KingsIsle Entertainment is very protective of young players via censorship so they should be consistent by not encouraging child soldiers which is currently a huge problem in the real world.

Having adult avatars would also attract more adult players which would boost the total number of players in this game. Also, adult players are more likely to spend on the game :)

Daniel

Defender
May 27, 2013
112
As an adult who has to deal with adult responsibilities and adult issues in the adult world, I relish the chance to not be an adult while I am in the W101 world. I personally don't need to add the extra level of hormones created by the addition of adult avatars, because it would ultimately legitimize more sexual references by the players. Even if the avatars are not sexual in nature, the very fact that they would be more adult opens the door for more adult conversations…and this is a game for everyone, not just adults.

There are plenty of more adult games on the internet; we don’t really need to alter the nature of this one.

Survivor
May 07, 2010
38
while i don't think we should have explicitly adult avatars, i do wish our player models looked a bit more "mature," more teen-aged. however, i think this comes down less to making them look a definitive age and more about making them not look a definitive age. this is something the old models did perfectly, in my opinion: their visual simplicity made it so their "age" was easily perceived as "young" but still in a vaguer sense; players could look at the old models and say they were anywhere from age 12 to 25. what's important about this, which i think the OP of this thread implied, is that it makes it easier for ALL players to project, or "fit," onto their own characters. that's why i think OP asked for "adult" models -- because they themselves are a more mature age and want their player model to reflect that. i know many, MANY other players feel the same (including me).

the new models unfortunately don't allow for this, as they look much more baby-ish than the old ones -- except for the weird instances of excess wrinkles and overshaded detail (like on the girls' faces and on everyone's necks) that make them look both too young and too old at the same time, which is uncanny. but if these visual issues were polished out, and some new customization options like more mature face shapes were added (or just change the default face to be more mature and less bubble-rounded), i think that would achieve the effect that OP wants, without alienating those who do enjoy young, simple character models (as i do).

i hope that all made sense! thanks for hearing me out

Delver
Jun 10, 2012
204
Hi,
I'm an adult (the laws of my country tell me I'm an adult so I guess that's true)

I don't agree with the need of adult avatar for our wizard and witches,the game already give us more mature intrigues for 3rd and 4th arcs.

I agree with fandango, i play wizards and witches and no one ever asked me if i'm in couple on my wizards.
I have ignored the few ones who lost their way and though wizard city was a dating place but thats the point, they are only a few.

Another problem with grown up characters is in the story most of the boss underestimate us because we are child.

And finally, i asked once if we could choose to be a non humanoids forms or half humanoids and no cuz that will be too much rework to review all gears to a new form (+8000 non school specifics maybe 40 000 or 50 000 total)

I agree if Erin could look like the ultra sexualized angels from other games (mercy/furia/any unnaturally curved woman with wings) or Seth has the possibility of a viril or/and tough paladin guy appearance (too much exemple to be listed) well i would be tempted but thats all.

A beard and mustach face paint in the mirror shop maybe, few more hairstyle and the possibility to recolor the aura, goat horn, snow crown, ..., and new transformation potions (bought in gold plz)

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1472
To me the wizards just look kind of indiscriminate, meaning they could be about any age. I have seen many use silver hair and that is supposed to designate the human behind the wizard is "older." (It's not obligatory.)

Actually at least the male wizards look grown to me. Kids don't have shoulders that are that wide.

But overall they don't look like kids, grownups or anything in specific. They look like cartoon avatars.

I like that the art is kind of "cute."

Defender
Aug 16, 2014
121
Ok wow. First, I disagree with this. There is no proof wizards are children or adults. all of the text says "Young Wizard" Technically, that could be anywhere from 12-30. Also if you must, look at some of the gear, it isn't made for kids or adults. On top of that, I know plenty of wizards below 15 and plenty more who like the models as they are. Also, we have no size comparisons, for all we know, wizards as they are now are full grown adults and everything around them is larger than us. I mean, look at Mooshu and Wysteria, pigs are smallers than mice from khrysalis. Not to mention eels and crabs from Celestia. But this is an opinion ok bye.

-Zachary SpiritLeaf

Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
Fandango739 on May 19, 2021 wrote:
As an adult who has to deal with adult responsibilities and adult issues in the adult world, I relish the chance to not be an adult while I am in the W101 world. I personally don't need to add the extra level of hormones created by the addition of adult avatars, because it would ultimately legitimize more sexual references by the players. Even if the avatars are not sexual in nature, the very fact that they would be more adult opens the door for more adult conversations…and this is a game for everyone, not just adults.

There are plenty of more adult games on the internet; we don’t really need to alter the nature of this one.
I get your point, but there are pedophiles in this game who sexualize the child avatars they encounter and try to engage in sexual chats or obtain personal information. Using adult avatars would probably reduce this. So while it's true that sexual chats overall may increase with adult avatars, pedophilia may decrease. I would rather have adult sexual chats than encourage pedophilia with child avatars.

Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
DemonHunter157 on May 24, 2021 wrote:
Ok wow. First, I disagree with this. There is no proof wizards are children or adults. all of the text says "Young Wizard" Technically, that could be anywhere from 12-30. Also if you must, look at some of the gear, it isn't made for kids or adults. On top of that, I know plenty of wizards below 15 and plenty more who like the models as they are. Also, we have no size comparisons, for all we know, wizards as they are now are full grown adults and everything around them is larger than us. I mean, look at Mooshu and Wysteria, pigs are smallers than mice from khrysalis. Not to mention eels and crabs from Celestia. But this is an opinion ok bye.

-Zachary SpiritLeaf
Thanks for your feedback :) If you look at the guards in Wizard City though, they are twice the height of your wizard. We know they're not a different species.

Explorer
Mar 25, 2021
58
BanPlastic on May 25, 2021 wrote:
Thanks for your feedback :) If you look at the guards in Wizard City though, they are twice the height of your wizard. We know they're not a different species.
this is true, the guards are humans as well, cyrus and malistaire are humans, merle is a human, the only difference between them and us is which world we come from. cyrus and malistaire are humans from dragonspyre, merle from avalon, and so on.

Survivor
Jun 06, 2011
23
Hello!

I think this might look odd in practice and I don't see how it would work without creating a "parallell game". In W101 you play as a young student wizard at a magical school. Because of this, to me, adult avatars don't seem relevant? Unless you have a different role in the game, like a teacher maybe? I personally love feeling something like Harry Potter when he goes to Hogwarts even though I technically am an adult. I'm also worried it would exclude younger players if the adult avatar becomes similar to a badge for 18+ players?

Squire
Jan 21, 2010
565
The premise of the game isn't child soldiers, it is that kids want to go on adventures. I believe the young wizard is performing tasks and being compensated by being taught spells at an accelerated rate. None of it is compulsory, you aren't being threatened by the staff. You could quit, and learn spells via lecture over a period of weeks.
You are doing important things and helping adults, which is a childhood fantasy. Eventually the professors seem to view you as an equal (considering that you surpass them in their own fields that makes sense). Being treated like an adult is another childhood fantasy, and is why children often wish they were older "right now." My ten-year old self would have loved to be able to go where I wanted, whenever I wanted. Explore places and find interesting things. Earn money, beat up bad guys, be called a hero. Receive praise and rewards for doing a good job. The game isn't child soldiery, it's child wish-fulfilment.

If the story were about the adult cast, then they would all be horribly irresponsible. However, the story is about a child wizard, and the adults are merely plot devices to provide direction and encouragement.

Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
chrissi marissi on May 27, 2021 wrote:
Hello!

I think this might look odd in practice and I don't see how it would work without creating a "parallell game". In W101 you play as a young student wizard at a magical school. Because of this, to me, adult avatars don't seem relevant? Unless you have a different role in the game, like a teacher maybe? I personally love feeling something like Harry Potter when he goes to Hogwarts even though I technically am an adult. I'm also worried it would exclude younger players if the adult avatar becomes similar to a badge for 18+ players?
Hello.

In the real world, 18 - 21 year olds are likely still students. In the last Harry Potter movie, Harry was 17. It's possible to still be a student without being a 12 year old - which is exactly how old our avatars look. Our avatars are clearly prepubescent.

Survivor
May 01, 2021
10
Zebulous Newt on May 27, 2021 wrote:
The premise of the game isn't child soldiers, it is that kids want to go on adventures. I believe the young wizard is performing tasks and being compensated by being taught spells at an accelerated rate. None of it is compulsory, you aren't being threatened by the staff. You could quit, and learn spells via lecture over a period of weeks.
You are doing important things and helping adults, which is a childhood fantasy. Eventually the professors seem to view you as an equal (considering that you surpass them in their own fields that makes sense). Being treated like an adult is another childhood fantasy, and is why children often wish they were older "right now." My ten-year old self would have loved to be able to go where I wanted, whenever I wanted. Explore places and find interesting things. Earn money, beat up bad guys, be called a hero. Receive praise and rewards for doing a good job. The game isn't child soldiery, it's child wish-fulfilment.

If the story were about the adult cast, then they would all be horribly irresponsible. However, the story is about a child wizard, and the adults are merely plot devices to provide direction and encouragement.
It's both child soldiery and child wish-fulfillment I would say. Just because a child volunteers to go to war, doesn't mean it's okay. Just as children can't consent to sexual activity, they cannot consent to fight in a war. Also, Merle does say at one point that your studies will have to wait because he has a task for you so he's basically forcing a child to fight.

But you raise a good point that children may enjoy playing the role of a child, but I also think many children would like to be an adult so I'm not sure about which most children would really prefer... A survey might be in order! Staff?

Daniel

Defender
Aug 16, 2014
121
BanPlastic on May 31, 2021 wrote:
It's both child soldiery and child wish-fulfillment I would say. Just because a child volunteers to go to war, doesn't mean it's okay. Just as children can't consent to sexual activity, they cannot consent to fight in a war. Also, Merle does say at one point that your studies will have to wait because he has a task for you so he's basically forcing a child to fight.

But you raise a good point that children may enjoy playing the role of a child, but I also think many children would like to be an adult so I'm not sure about which most children would really prefer... A survey might be in order! Staff?

Daniel
But is it war? I like to think of it as duels, like in fencing. You don't kill your opponent you "defeat" them. In fact many boss battles you can see an NPC walk off while giving dialogue. I don't know about anyone else but to me war is being forced to fight and kill other beings, often for purposes that don't directly affect you. In wiz, wizards choose to fight. If you want, you can go to side quests or just garden the whole game. Even if the quest line says its of the utmost importance, you can still leave for as long as you want. Very little of this game is timed. The only thing I can think of is the end Polaris fight. Also again, look at the gear and weapons wizards can hold. They don't seem tailored for a child nor adult. But this is all my thoughts, I won't try to speak for other players.

-Zachary SpiritLeaf

Geographer
Sep 19, 2013
961
DemonHunter157 on Jun 9, 2021 wrote:
But is it war? I like to think of it as duels, like in fencing. You don't kill your opponent you "defeat" them. In fact many boss battles you can see an NPC walk off while giving dialogue. I don't know about anyone else but to me war is being forced to fight and kill other beings, often for purposes that don't directly affect you. In wiz, wizards choose to fight. If you want, you can go to side quests or just garden the whole game. Even if the quest line says its of the utmost importance, you can still leave for as long as you want. Very little of this game is timed. The only thing I can think of is the end Polaris fight. Also again, look at the gear and weapons wizards can hold. They don't seem tailored for a child nor adult. But this is all my thoughts, I won't try to speak for other players.

-Zachary SpiritLeaf
I think you're mistaking the wizard showing mercy and some gameplay needs with "no one is trying to kill anyone" and "no urgency."

In terms of the story, yes, very few characters die (you do actually kill malistaire and I think krokhotep in just the first arc), but that doesn't mean that no one wants your wizard dead. You might choose to hold back, but I have no doubt Morganthe would gladly mount your wizard's head on a pike outside the Shadow Palace should you lose to her. Of course, restarting from scratch would be a poor gameplay decision, so if you lose the fight that didn't actually happen in terms of the narration. Canonically, your wizard hasn't lost yet.

As for the lack of timers, that's also a gameplay issue. It's like reading a book, the world inside there doesn't progress until you come back and open it up again. If you stop playing wiz for the night or the month, the world is effectively "frozen" until you come back to the story. Narrative time runs differently than real time.

As to the original question, why not just let us choose our own heights at character creation/the Magic Mirror? Problem solved.

Champion
Mar 19, 2009
426
I think comparing the player character to a child soldier is a pretty bad faith argument. The game makes no real attempt to portray the horrors of war and the player character is never in any mortal danger. There isn't really any extant war to speak of in the main storyline, except in Grizzleheim and Arc 3, in both cases you are explicitly not a soldier. They're an adventurer, through and through.

IMO on adult avatars, even though the game undeniably has a majority adult playerbase nowadays and I think Kingsisle should do more to cater to their aging playerbase, adult avatars is not something I'm on board with. Either they'd have to keep an option between child and adult avatars, (something that feels very creepy to me), or they'd have to fully commit to the game no longer being targeted toward children, which is not a good idea either.