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This one is a bit tricky because I don't know how it would work. I recently attempted a tartarus run on a storm wizard only to be severely dissapointed... The group I was with left one by one.. fleeing when something went wrong only to never come back.. Someone got hit by efreet, fled! and when we got to hades and killed both him and zeus the remaining others also fled! For no reason! And the punishment? You can't use team up for a few minutes. Wasting a complete hour of everyones time with no punishment. The same thing happens in darkmoor, mostly with the Shane Von Shane fight. (Please note I did 4 Tart runs that day and every one ended with everyone fleeing.)

I understand how this can be a problem when everyone knows each other and they need to flee to grab a potion / tc of some sort, although I have not come up with an idea to tell who is simply helping or ruining someones day.

I'm sorry if I got anything wrong, feel free to reply if the same has happened to anyone else.

MentalScars, it's not you. Others have the same problem. The same thing happened to me too often when I do Darkmoor, Waterworks, Tower of elephants, Atlantea or Tartarus. It's irritating to spend hours trying to do a guest or get the gear I want realizing I just wasted my time because someone or half the party fled for who knows why with some dumb excuse. That's the reason why I no longer do those dungeons if I can help it. I don't play with quitters. People, It's not difficult to plan ahead to get your tc, potions, gear together and judge your time. I always aloud some extra time to do dungeons like those listed above just in case battles don't always go as plan and many time they don't.

What I don't understand is why we're punished the same as the first one who quits the dungeon, some of us want to finish but can't due to the quitters. I think the punishment should only fall on the first quitter.

A-men SparkleTube. I also agree that somethings can't be helped like lost connection or family matters but too many people just don't care and think it's cute to be darn right mean. Like SparkleTube said in his post; "It's not a good sign" I admit, I fled dungeons on a team a few times only because the way players were acting by trolling one another and fighting and pulled me into that mess. To me that's a turn off. Who can enjoy a battle when that goes on. If people really care enough to work in a team, they will be team. Like the The Three Musketeers once said. "one for all and all for one" it does work.

Patrick Ravenbane on Mar 8, 2017 wrote:

A-men SparkleTube. I also agree that somethings can't be helped like lost connection or family matters but too many people just don't care and think it's cute to be darn right mean. Like SparkleTube said in his post; "It's not a good sign" I admit, I fled dungeons on a team a few times only because the way players were acting by trolling one another and fighting and pulled me into that mess. To me that's a turn off. Who can enjoy a battle when that goes on. If people really care enough to work in a team, they will be team. Like the The Three Musketeers once said. "one for all and all for one" it does work.

Thanks!

Well said.

I fled one dungeon because I had tried it on my own. I knew it was a tricky one. I was trying to talk to the person who called for the team up before we started. (I was the only one who answered the team up request.) I wanted to just warn them about this one point in the dungeon where there was an unexpected, extra fight, that could kill, if they did not stand really far back when they went up to talk to this one character.

I couldn't even finish my first sentence before they ran away. I caught up and again tried to talk. I tried to tell them why (I wanted to warn them about this one spot.) They again interrupted and said in so many words that they did not care and "let's just do this." Well it was not the type of dungeon you could "let's just do." It required sticking together and avoiding the pitfalls by having some type of an agreed upon plan for at least parts of it.

I like to have some sort of agreed upon plan (even if it's "do whatever you want" in which case at least I'm warned I am on my own), and if the others won't even talk to me, I know from experience it will be 45 minutes of frustration.

Then there are those times people just port out and quit without telling anyone.
The other day I answered a team up in which the person had no chat ability (I don't know why, and they didn't let on if they could read my text or not), I tried to 'mime' to them to follow me in some points and they went the other way. That happened repeatedly. It was easy enough I decided I would just finish it myself and if they were still around they'd benefit and if not, not, but at least I wouldn't be penalized.

They showed up toward the end. By then I didn't much care either way. I couldn't tell if they were confused or just letting me do the work and I had decided I didn't much care. I was bored and took the risk.

But on tricky dungeons or frustrating ones when people act up, or won't be Musketeers, it's not worth it.

The best advice I can give you for this is to do what I did and make reliable trustworthy friends on the game that will help you with those tough dungeons. That way you know who your playing with and don't have to worry about stuff like that happening.
If you don't have the proper in game chat to make friends, you can always make friends on the message boards to help you in game.
Also helping others with their quests is always a good way to make a friend.
Find someone that has the same quests as you and stick with them as long as you can for mutual benefit.

Also be friendly, be a team player and be as knowledgeable about the game as you can.

Me and my friends have let random people join our questing from time to time and what makes us not want to ditch you is if you are a valuable team member and not always trying to go for the big kill all on your own even though we exist in the fight too.
90% of the time we only flee if you are rude to us.
Commanding that we do the fight your way, etc.
The other 10% is accidental or issues with fight, time etc..
Usually we wont start a dungeon unless we are sure we can finish it but life does happen regardless.

I don't believe anyone should be punished for leaving a fight because there are more good reasons you might have to leave a fight than bad ones.
Yes it does stink when it happens but there are things you can do to limit the amount of times it happens.

How can KI determine a punishment for the reasons why people flee? I agree with a couple of people. There should not be a punishment for someone fleeing a dungeon because what if the one who fled and didn't come back for a reason beyond his control such as, what if the player lost connection and can't come back? Is it his or her fault? Is it his or her fault if the parent ask their kid or teen to do something like; time to do your chores or come here and watch your little brother/sister for a while etc... or the parent needs the computer for who know how long? That player should be punched for that? That's not fair. This is a family entertainment game for those to have fun not a police action. One the other hand if players act up and causes a corruption by trolling, making people flee, then maybe that troublemaker should be punished not the one who fled.

Then instead of 90% reduction to stats put a debut for minus 90% drop rates to any person who is a deserter but instead of fleeing could be a dungeon filter like report player. If a player does this without an acutely reason they can be banned for this.

Dr Von on Mar 10, 2017 wrote:

i've been in the op's situation, and it's extremely annoying... but how to tell if someone had a legit reason for quitting (ie connection failure, power outage) or just fled to be a pain, and avoid punishing innocent people?

here's an idea... back when i was much younger, i played games etc. on a site called neopets. there was a multiplayer game called keyquest~ depending on what place you finished in, you received either a gold, silver, bronze, or lead key, which you could then use to unlock vaults of the corresponding colour in exchange for prizes (site items, of course). the prizes were all random, though rumours started that only the gold keys gave out good prizes... and people quitting to avoid "losing" became such a huge issue that staff eventually decided to consider it cheating and it became a reportable/bannable offense.

"but von, what does that have to do with anything?"

oh, i'm getting to the good part... when people joined the keyquest lobby, there was a smiley face beside each person's name that indicated how reliable s/he was. basically something like:

perfect record, finishes all matches that s/he starts;
solid player, fairly reliable~ maybe left the odd game due to an emergency or connection issue;
not bad, disconnects occasionally but not enough to warrant suspicion;
shaky, definitely cause for suspicion here;
perpetual quitter, has quit more matches than s/he has completed.

now, if we were to implement a similar system with team up, we'd be able to clearly see who's reliable and avoid getting into situations with people who have a reputation for ditching- saves everyone a ton of time, stress, and headaches.

(better yet, reputation could be per world, so we could know what kinds of dungeons they were bailing on)

-von

I like making quitting a reportable offense ( but only in those cases where it's obvious they quit to be a troll. )
And I especially like the "Reliability Meter"
Usually I'm against asking KI to do extra coding for their games, but this is a benefit for every player who uses Team-Up!
It should be implemented in both games.

Gemma Luna on Mar 11, 2017 wrote:

If any of these things were implemented, I'd stop using the kiosk.

.

speak for yourself~ i use team up on occasion, though i tend to steer clear because the risk isn't worth the reward. most of the time, i'll just try to solo the instance or, if i can't, wait for my friends to log in later.

if something like a reliability meter were implemented, more people would be inclined to use team up as the feature would reassure them that they aren't wasting their time.

@anecorbie i that quitting should be reportable but only if it's obvious that the person is trolling and i like @lukeskywalker1313's idea re: -90% to all drop rates as well. however, there would need to be a system implemented to keep innocent people with legit issues safe from the punishments given to true offenders.

-von

I think most people have suffered this, however, I think if there was a punishment, it should be time based not who fled first. Mostly because, the flee and return technique is used a lot; especially if someone left and your a man down on your party. To punish all fleers right off the bat would kill the flee and return technique completely. And let me tell you, I have won battles with just me and one other that others couldn't win with a full group due to that technique. Also, sometimes you have the wrong deck on or you need to go buy some cards or a potion real fast, you flee and return.

I suggest a time base punishment. If you don't return before your dungeon port closes your stats are reduced for the next hour or two. Yes, I know that gives you a 30min window in most cases, but depending on the dungeon, some like tart and darkmoor's graveyard take a hour minimum and if they flee after the first battle. This would work out for people who had to go somewhere or do something, because they likely would be gone a hour or two anyway.

A solution to punishment would be to have a special box or idk where you could write what you want out of a team up. Do you just want to fight Cronus, the plant key boss, the first guy in the graveyard for the athame? Another solution would be to have multiple team ups going for the same dungeon. Pet rally practices and pvp have multiple groups, why not team up? Couple that with the description box and it might weed out a lot of these fleers.

Also, maybe make fleeing and not returning a reportable offense of repeat offenders. If enough people report the same person, Ki could look into and if they find the person is a troll or just highly immoral, they inact a punishment of some kind. Maybe reduced stats for a whole day or say a temporary suspension of membership. (The membership would be 'paused' so the person wouldn't lose their money's worth, but they just wouldn't have it for a day or two.) Like being expelled from school I suppose.

Gemma Luna on Mar 12, 2017 wrote:

"Speak for myself"? who else would I be speaking for?

I've helped hundreds of players via the kiosk. I've never asked anything in return, and never trolled anyone or gone in with the intent of ditching. I have however been disconnected, had a real life emergency, and left a couple dungeons where a player or players were being rude, crude, or demanding. I've had to flee to reset gear or a deck, and in more than one case either been unable to recall or had another player summon a minion, locking me out. Such is life, and the occasional glitches in complex games.

The system has no way of knowing why someone left, so a more serious penalty would not be fair. If that becomes a risk, I will not be willing to team up randomly anymore. I understand that some players feel entitled to help, but everyone who joins a fight does so voluntarily and has the right to leave.

it's not a matter of entitlement; sure, you have the right to leave. but do i not also have the right to protect my time investment?

even if the system itself can't tell why someone left, the reliability meter would be a good indicator. the odd disconnection might indicate the odd connection issue or emergency, but someone who leaves every match s/he's ever entered is obviously doing it for other reasons.

i don't start an instance if i have no intention of finishing it, because doing that is disrespectful to your teammates, as well as their time and effort. and people wonder why i can't be bothered with long dungeons like darkmoor... i'm simply protecting my time from those who have no respect for it.

anecorbie on Mar 12, 2017 wrote:

Personally, I don't know how many of these innovations could be implemented - although it's nice to dream as to what we would like to do to the ( REDACTED ) troll who thinks it's funny to abandon a team in mid dungeon. ( Or the arrogant "You're not good enough for MY team up" jerk who backs out of a dungeon because your stats doesn't meet with his "high standards". )
Now how to report some troll who leaves and doesn't return? S/He's not there to click on and if s/he's said nothing, then you can't click on her/his name.

My biggest concern would be how this system could be used by trolls to harm people, if it comes down to reporting people in some way.

Say for example you team up with someone and they don't do anything. They got you to be the muscle and do all the heavy lifting. They don't care about the drops, all they want is someone to clear the dungeon for them so that they can get the XP or questing progress. You want to leave and stop wasting your time? Sure, go ahead. They'll just report you.

Or you team up with someone who's being rude and belligerent, but within the confines of the rules. They're not swearing around the filters or anything, just being jerks. Now they're holding you hostage in this dungeon, subjecting you to their "torture", because if you leave they'll report you. Do you stay and put up with it, or leave and suffer the consequences of an action they bullied you into taking?

It doesn't matter if you report them back and sanctions against you are eventually lifted, or reputation restored, you've still suffered at least a temporary punishment in the interim while the case is reviewed when you didn't do anything bad in the first place. That is assuming all punishments being discussed are instantaneous, and not sent in for review first like other instances of reporting.

If it's not instant, then that means KI has all of these extra cases to review. And how do they prove intent? Is it a unilateral decision? "We've assumed you did wrong, therefore you did, and you shall be punished." Or does the "offender" have an opportunity to state their case? If they fled on purpose and lie saying they had a valid reason, then what?

People who want to cause chaos will do so with whatever tools they have available to them. I see something like this being twisted to those ends. You're creating a new problem and not necessarily solving the old one.