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A change to stun in PVE - This would be more fun

AuthorMessage
Defender
May 02, 2015
120
Posted this in PVP, but thought it might get better reception here:

I can understand why this would not go over well in the pvp areana, however for pve:

I think it would be quite fun if you could get inherent stun resistance in pve as you level up. Like with the power pips and how you get +1% every level from 10 up to 50? (I think) I think you should be able to get the same thing for stun resistance from say level 50 to level 90.

And inherent stun resistance would add some variety to pve play. I can't tell you how annoying it is to just be stunned out of no where, let alone your entire party. When I see frost giant come out, I think it would be a lot more fun to have just a CHANCE at not getting stunned rather than just knowing it's going to happen. It makes things a little different and significantly less monotonous.

In addition to that, KI could you also maybe please fix how stun block works? I noticed this running darkmoor: When players have the same % to block a stun, if that stun goes through, they ALL get stunned. It's like it's one role for that percent rather than per player. When I get stunned in the first battle with conviction up, fine. But when everyone does with conviction up? That's a problem. It's clearly one role rather than one per each player.

This would also need to happen should pve get that inherent stun resist. If no one has any other stun resist on besides that and they have the same resistance, if that first person is stunned or not stunned, that shouldn't tell me what will happen to the others. It should be stun, resist stun. Stun, stun, resist. Resist, stun, stun. Or even stun, stun, stun, provided any of the previous outcomes could happen.

Would just make the game more fun. I would much prefer variety beyond just "well, my team is just set back a turn now." Because otherwise, stun is pretty much nothing but a nuisance in pve.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
Anyone else think this is a good idea to break up some of the tediousness of the game?

Defender
Dec 05, 2013
156
Yes, it's a nuisance, but that's part of the game. I don't see, considering it's a stat, how they could only allow it in pve. It would be almost impossible. Stunning is just another obstacle we have to get over, and when someone has a pet, gear, or jewels with stun resist they worked for it. Stun Resist is not a necessity like power pips, if it was I could see this happening. When you have stun resist you feel special, unlike power pip chance. Plus, only about 1 out of 20 battles do you get stunned on a regular basis (no dungeon farming). I see no need for this.

Sorry,
Alexander Dragondreamer 110
Alexander Stormdreamer 67

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
They could probably program it so that it worked for pve only if they worked at it.

As far as someone having gear with stun resist that they worked for, this is only relevant to pvp. If you're purposely running stun gear in pve, you're doing it wrong.

And as far as pets, gear, and jewels being something people worked for and how they wouldn't mean as much should the inherent stun resist be applied, I say that's one huge nullified argument. The same thing could have been and was said with this last update with critical in pvp: Pet talents and jewels having anything to do with critical or block have become obsolete (mostly pets). And these were things that players worked really hard to get but then just became worthless overnight.

I know it's not the same kind of change comparison, but I'm just saying - what's fair or not fair in regards to what players have done to adapt to the present meta doesn't matter to the people upstairs.

Defender
Dec 05, 2013
156
luckguy93 on Sep 19, 2016 wrote:
They could probably program it so that it worked for pve only if they worked at it.

As far as someone having gear with stun resist that they worked for, this is only relevant to pvp. If you're purposely running stun gear in pve, you're doing it wrong.

And as far as pets, gear, and jewels being something people worked for and how they wouldn't mean as much should the inherent stun resist be applied, I say that's one huge nullified argument. The same thing could have been and was said with this last update with critical in pvp: Pet talents and jewels having anything to do with critical or block have become obsolete (mostly pets). And these were things that players worked really hard to get but then just became worthless overnight.

I know it's not the same kind of change comparison, but I'm just saying - what's fair or not fair in regards to what players have done to adapt to the present meta doesn't matter to the people upstairs.
Nobody was happy about what the did to critical and block, that includes me. If they add the stun resist too it will royally screw up this game, there would be no point in using stuns in pvp, people will just wear stun resist gear on top of the stun resist the have (based off your suggestion) and be completely immune!
You also failed to comment on how stun resist is not a needed thing. Getting stunned is a strategy for the other player, having this would ruin their strategy much like with what came after last years critical update.

Sorry, still don't like it

Alexander Dragondreamer 110
Alexander Stormdreamer 76

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
XaZeRs on Sep 23, 2016 wrote:
Nobody was happy about what the did to critical and block, that includes me. If they add the stun resist too it will royally screw up this game, there would be no point in using stuns in pvp, people will just wear stun resist gear on top of the stun resist the have (based off your suggestion) and be completely immune!
You also failed to comment on how stun resist is not a needed thing. Getting stunned is a strategy for the other player, having this would ruin their strategy much like with what came after last years critical update.

Sorry, still don't like it

Alexander Dragondreamer 110
Alexander Stormdreamer 76
Stun resist is not a needed thing for pve is what I was saying. Anything that gives stun resist is trumped by other increases in damage/resist in place of said resist. You are always either taking damage or dealing it, you aren't always being stunned.

And if you are being stunned, it is just boring and lazy. You're just set back a turn. Mob or boss, they're going to die, it's just been needlessly delayed now. It would just be more fun/interesting if there was just a chance for that to not happen. And a max of 30% or 40% is still pretty low as to not have the problem of stun be completely removed, but it adds some chance that makes the game more fun. But hey, there are a lot of things that could be done to the game that would make it better/less bad, but KI will probably here maybe a tenth of those suggestions and consider them. Like my post on the cancerous nature of drops. I hope that was a sufficient comment?

And you either missed my point about it not being for pvp or ignored it: They could code to be just for pve if they really wanted to. If they can code a 100% mana decrease for pvp gear used in pve, they can do the reverse for an inherent stun. It's just code.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4163
I don't really see the need for it. There is already stun resist gear, pets and spells available. Conviction already gives you 90% resist, 95% with TC. That's plenty for the handful of PvE boss fights where stun is truly an issue because of cheat casts.

Squire
Oct 29, 2011
578
I actually really like the idea of stun block build up as you level.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
seethe42 on Sep 27, 2016 wrote:
I don't really see the need for it. There is already stun resist gear, pets and spells available. Conviction already gives you 90% resist, 95% with TC. That's plenty for the handful of PvE boss fights where stun is truly an issue because of cheat casts.
Stun resist gear and talents are completely useless for pve though. The alternative is resist and damage, the two most useful status boosts. The health/critical/block/accuracy/pierce/etc that comes along with those boosts on said gear just happens to go along with said damage and resist. Pips and item cards are what I would call the tier 2 attributes (off the top of my head). Everything else is just a bonus.

And I'm not trying to say that the handful of fights that include problematic stuns can't be taken care of through those mean. They can.

What I'm suggesting is just a way to make a tedious quality of the game actually fun, interesting and enjoyable.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
frostednutella on Sep 27, 2016 wrote:
I actually really like the idea of stun block build up as you level.
Thanks. Tell your friends. lol xD

Delver
Mar 13, 2010
299
luckguy93 on Sep 28, 2016 wrote:
Stun resist gear and talents are completely useless for pve though. The alternative is resist and damage, the two most useful status boosts. The health/critical/block/accuracy/pierce/etc that comes along with those boosts on said gear just happens to go along with said damage and resist. Pips and item cards are what I would call the tier 2 attributes (off the top of my head). Everything else is just a bonus.

And I'm not trying to say that the handful of fights that include problematic stuns can't be taken care of through those mean. They can.

What I'm suggesting is just a way to make a tedious quality of the game actually fun, interesting and enjoyable.
I don't understand why this makes it more fun or interesting, though.

The element of "surprise"? I don't think hat it's more fun to hit through a mantle than not, because, hey I might fizz.

I don't think it's a bad idea, just unnecessary and not likely adding enough to justify the development effort required to retro this.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4163
luckguy93 on Sep 28, 2016 wrote:
Stun resist gear and talents are completely useless for pve though. The alternative is resist and damage, the two most useful status boosts. The health/critical/block/accuracy/pierce/etc that comes along with those boosts on said gear just happens to go along with said damage and resist. Pips and item cards are what I would call the tier 2 attributes (off the top of my head). Everything else is just a bonus.

And I'm not trying to say that the handful of fights that include problematic stuns can't be taken care of through those mean. They can.

What I'm suggesting is just a way to make a tedious quality of the game actually fun, interesting and enjoyable.
I'm saying that it's not a necessary addition to the game. If you are getting stunned so much that's it makes the game tedious, maybe you should rethink your game play. How hard is it to carry conviction or stun block? They are 0 pip spells so cost you nothing in battle. Your suggestion is akin to asking that resistance and damage goes up every level naturally. Your attack, resist, critical, block... NONE go up naturally. No battle stats do, why would stun resist be different? You make choices with gear. If you want the highest stats in one, you sacrifice something else. Your assertion that stun resist is a single roll is completely false also. I've seen plenty of battles were one wizard's conviction TC fails and no one else's does. It's just a bad roll for that wizard.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
PaigeGoldenspear on Sep 28, 2016 wrote:
I don't understand why this makes it more fun or interesting, though.

The element of "surprise"? I don't think hat it's more fun to hit through a mantle than not, because, hey I might fizz.

I don't think it's a bad idea, just unnecessary and not likely adding enough to justify the development effort required to retro this.
Interesting argument. Hadn't considered how, say, black mantle does pretty much the same thing as what I'm suggesting. But then again, a lot of the problematic stun comes from storm lord, frost giant, medusa, etc - attacks that stun are far more prevalent than attacks that also debuff accuracy.

I just think this kind of change would just add more diversity to the game. But I think I've made about all of the points I can on it. Glad that you don't think it's a bad idea.

Would be nice to see happen is all now.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
seethe42 on Sep 28, 2016 wrote:
I'm saying that it's not a necessary addition to the game. If you are getting stunned so much that's it makes the game tedious, maybe you should rethink your game play. How hard is it to carry conviction or stun block? They are 0 pip spells so cost you nothing in battle. Your suggestion is akin to asking that resistance and damage goes up every level naturally. Your attack, resist, critical, block... NONE go up naturally. No battle stats do, why would stun resist be different? You make choices with gear. If you want the highest stats in one, you sacrifice something else. Your assertion that stun resist is a single roll is completely false also. I've seen plenty of battles were one wizard's conviction TC fails and no one else's does. It's just a bad roll for that wizard.
95% of stun battles (the other 5% being cheat casts and a significantly high pool of stun attacks) are just a risk of a stun attacks being cast. So - take a turn to use a conviction to have 4 turns of a 95% stun resist that may or may not be cast? Makes no sense. Even stun block - You're taking a turn to cast a spell that only might come in handy. Both options take a turn. Without using them, if you did get stun, that's the same turn lost. And then you get the stun mark protecting you from the next. Unless you're getting medusa'd or are in a fight that has you getting stunned a lot, niether of those strategies make sense. Those are the 95% of stun risk battles.

Of course I am speaking from the place of a guy who one shots everything and has sped through the game on two occasions after my first play through.

By your logic, people should carry and use aegis against all myth fights/bosses because of the risk of earthquake. Granted, you can't get that spell till late game, but you get the comparison.

This idea and other ideas I've posted about are really all just about making the game less of a monotonous grind. Identifying those elements and working to take them out/change them are the steps that take a good game with a ton of short comings and revamp it into just a good game period. Even a great game.

In any event, I'm less confident in my idea now, but still think it would be a welcome change.

As far as 1 roll for stun, I guess I would respectfully disagree. Unless of course it's just the first boss in Graveyard that has this issue? Because every single time someone gets stunned with conviction up, everyone else who would be subjected to a stun roll with conviction up Also gets stunned. Every time. That's not multiple rolls - statistically impossible. That's 1 roll for that turn for that percent. Maybe it's something glitchy with the blade counter cheat, but I'm pretty certain that it happens with frost giant too. Perhaps you are right, but I'm certainly not wrong.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4163
luckguy93 on Sep 28, 2016 wrote:
95% of stun battles (the other 5% being cheat casts and a significantly high pool of stun attacks) are just a risk of a stun attacks being cast. So - take a turn to use a conviction to have 4 turns of a 95% stun resist that may or may not be cast? Makes no sense. Even stun block - You're taking a turn to cast a spell that only might come in handy. Both options take a turn. Without using them, if you did get stun, that's the same turn lost. And then you get the stun mark protecting you from the next. Unless you're getting medusa'd or are in a fight that has you getting stunned a lot, niether of those strategies make sense. Those are the 95% of stun risk battles.

Of course I am speaking from the place of a guy who one shots everything and has sped through the game on two occasions after my first play through.

By your logic, people should carry and use aegis against all myth fights/bosses because of the risk of earthquake. Granted, you can't get that spell till late game, but you get the comparison.

This idea and other ideas I've posted about are really all just about making the game less of a monotonous grind. Identifying those elements and working to take them out/change them are the steps that take a good game with a ton of short comings and revamp it into just a good game period. Even a great game.

In any event, I'm less confident in my idea now, but still think it would be a welcome change.

As far as 1 roll for stun, I guess I would respectfully disagree. Unless of course it's just the first boss in Graveyard that has this issue? Because every single time someone gets stunned with conviction up, everyone else who would be subjected to a stun roll with conviction up Also gets stunned. Every time. That's not multiple rolls - statistically impossible. That's 1 roll for that turn for that percent. Maybe it's something glitchy with the blade counter cheat, but I'm pretty certain that it happens with frost giant too. Perhaps you are right, but I'm certainly not wrong.
The first boss in the graveyard is the one that I see it on frequently. Conviction will fail on just one wizard on occasion. I've personally never seen it fail on all. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I've had it where I'm the only one stunned and also the opposite. I'm certainly not saying you should use Conviction in everyday deck, but if you are fighting something that clearly has lots of stun attacks, throwing up a Stun Block will save you a lot of trouble. And one "wasted" round at the start will save 2 future stuns, and in the case of Medusa that's 4 rounds saved to 1 round lost.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
seethe42 on Sep 29, 2016 wrote:
The first boss in the graveyard is the one that I see it on frequently. Conviction will fail on just one wizard on occasion. I've personally never seen it fail on all. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I've had it where I'm the only one stunned and also the opposite. I'm certainly not saying you should use Conviction in everyday deck, but if you are fighting something that clearly has lots of stun attacks, throwing up a Stun Block will save you a lot of trouble. And one "wasted" round at the start will save 2 future stuns, and in the case of Medusa that's 4 rounds saved to 1 round lost.
Wel, with a stun block, you'll net just one turn assuming you would be stunned twice. Because a stun gives you a block after you're stunned. And with medusa, you'd net an extra turn for the same reason as before. Not two.

As for graveyard, It's been a while since I've been but not too long? It's been a god two months probably since I've been there, they could have fixed it. when did you see someone get stunned last?

If it's been longer than that, then idk, something screwy with the code from player to player/run to run. Because I've always only ever seen everyone stunned if there's a stun that goes through.