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Wizard101 Pricing Model

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jul 16, 2008
17
grandmaster wrote:
Oh great, here we go again, "I want to play for free!" Well, I want to eat for free but for some unknown reason, McDonalds keeps thinking that I have to pay for their food! Can you believe it?!


lol

Survivor
Jul 16, 2008
17
Kilajula wrote:
grandmaster wrote:
Oh great, here we go again, "I want to play for free!" Well, I want to eat for free but for some unknown reason, McDonalds keeps thinking that I have to pay for their food! Can you believe it?!
Hahahaha, that made me laugh. On a side note I would thing McDonalds should pay us to eat their food, but that's my stomach ache talking.

I don't know, I assumed from the interviews that the free model had more content than half of wizard city. At most I was thinking a level cap around 20 or so. But I guess we know what happens when one assumes, lol.


ya :)

Survivor
Jul 16, 2008
17
Gregoryn95 wrote:
grandmaster wrote:
Oh great, here we go again, "I want to play for free!" Well, I want to eat for free but for some unknown reason, McDonalds keeps thinking that I have to pay for their food! Can you believe it?!


Yeah, but not this buggy of a game for that high of a price. I demand more content before paying closer to ToonTown, which has far more content.


i think i understand what your saying but toon town (in MY opinion) is nowhere near as good as w101.
i know from personal experience b/c it got boring in under a week (MY opinion)

Survivor
Aug 12, 2008
5
I don't think many people here are expecting the game's developers to work for free.
The issue lies with the value for money the games provides. Realistically this game has to compete with other similar games in terms of value for money. As of now compared to subscription games like WoW, LOTRO etc at the mature end and Toontown and so on at the younger end the game comes off very badly. It also needs to compete with non subscription deals, Steam offers a $5 game most weekends and once you've paid that fee you have the game for life.
Additionally there are further issues, the game is aimed at younger teenagers who are dependent on parents to pay the subscription fee but may not want or be able to put the money in to the game regularly (I am not in this age range but fall into this category). Games with item shops appeal to these players because they can pay when they can afford to but when they can't they don't loose access to the game. It also allows them to set a budget of how much they think the game is worth.
Finally the really fun part of this game is working as a team, I enjoy teaming up with my wife, I read of plenty of families who like to play together. For these people it is not a matter of one $9.99 subscription it could be four or five of them. A family of four would end up paying $480 for a year of the game. I can think of a lot of other things to do with that ammount (they could buy themselves a Wii, a few controllers and several games) and there is that threat that the moment they stop paying the game stops for them.
I know there will be a free option letting you in "half of Wizard City" but given that less than two days after the wipe I have completed every single quest in Wizard City apart from the one instanced zone that isn't a lot of gameplay. The future offer of PvP duels adds little as a player limited to Wizard City (and persumably limited to the equipment you can buy there) would be incapable of competing with a subscriber.
The model also takes away from the experience of subscribers; many later zones need more than one player. This was hard enough in Marleybone and Mooshu during free beta, with the drop in player numbers a forced subscription will bring it will become even tougher to progress in these zones. I expect plenty of players will cancel after their first month if they reach the last too worlds and discover them to be wastelands.

Survivor
Jul 15, 2008
2
MidnightMisstress wrote:
2.Work with other Companies or Sponsorship to INVEST: This option is very easy to do, get other companies involved so they can help support this game and help it grow. Nearly all good games have sponsors from other companies, and guess what? They can help pay for workload and content.


Investors demand returns. They might provide a short term shot in the arm, but they are a net drain on the companies they invest in. They want their initial money plus interest. They are only temporary assets at best. The only way investors help in the long run is if you can use their money to make enough money (via your business model) to pay them back, including interest, and still make a profit.

Unless what you meant was "charity donors" instead of "investors", recommending that King's Isle look to "investors" is recommending debt, which is not a viable way to run a business for the long run.

Survivor
Aug 12, 2008
4
I feel like a lot of people are over reacting to this announcement. Yes, there are issues with the game, and perhaps the pricing model is skewed too far upwards.

That being said, when people complain about content I think they need to keep in perspective the type of player that W101 is trying to attract may not necessarily be the type of player you yourself have been.

I admit my character is at the end of Wizard City right now as well. Sometime today I'll probably duo SC with my girlfriend and the move on to Krokatopia. That being said, I can step back and realistically say that I spent about 8+ hours in front of the computer this weekend than I would normally not spend because I wanted to see how quickly I could level up. I've gotten the quests in WC down to a pretty good science, so I don't think people would be able to do it too much faster.

My normal schedule, on a normal weekend would probably be less than 2, perhaps one hour a day playing. I'm sure that the age range of most of the people that are and will be playing are the same. One of the things you learn from other MMO's like WoW and LoTRO is that the forum audience is not always indicative of the game audience as a whole. If anything, the forum audience tends to skew very much more hardcore. That's why I feel you see so many complaints about price and of people blowing through content.

Furthermore, we have no idea about what kind of content release schedule they may have, or any endgame plans. The announcement of a PvP system sounds fun, and a possible way to pass the time at level cap. Also, an aggressive expansion model of new worlds might mean that the level cap is farther than most people think.

If all these remain untrue, then, well, the hardcore gamer has 1 month, probably 2 needed to subscribe to a game and then unsubscribe to it. That's still only 20 dollars maximum, which isn't so bad. I somehow doubt this is the case, though, most MMO's have a long term plan to keep subscribers in place.

I do sympathize with people that are about to pony up for multiple accounts, however, since I am in the same boat. Perhaps the staff still has a trick up their sleeves, hopefully, regarding the announcement of a family plan of some sort. I'm also not saying that 10 a month may or may not be too expensive. However, please keep the content complaints in perspective.

Explorer
Aug 25, 2008
52
MasterForm wrote:
Wait, so you are saying that if we play for free, we can't even get passed Wizard City?

That's right. What of it? It'll be free, after all, and as they say: you get what you paid for".

Except in this case, you're getting more than you pay for: you pay nothing, and get something. Just not everything.

TANSTAAFL

Explorer
Aug 25, 2008
52
nanoentity wrote:
I dont see people paying monthly fee,but who know...

I'll be paying two of them. Plus, likely, the occasional influx of purchased Crowns.

Explorer
Aug 25, 2008
52
Gooberosity wrote:
I'm ok with SOME kind of monthly fee, but for my wife, my son, and myself, that's $30/month, or is there account linking or family accounts available? $30 is a bit too much. You should offer household discounts really.

Honestly, sir? Look at it this way: how much would it cost for you, your wife, and your son to go to a theater, and see a movie? Let's use prices near me; I'll even go so far as to assume Matinee pricing - otherwise, slap another $5 or so on top of this:

Tickets for two adults and one child (I assume your son is under 13) ... $25
Three drinks ... $15
Three snacks (popcorn, candy, whatever) ... $15

Well, that looks like $55 to me. For, what, about two hours ... right?

Even if you only played one night a week, for one hour ("Family Wizard101 night" or whatever), you're getting twice as much entertainment time, for less than 1/2 as much money.

Or, put another way: you can spend about $20 on each of you, your wife, and your son to get two hours of entertainment at the theater ($10/hour/person) ... or you can spend $10 apiece for 4 hours as a bare minimum estimate ($2.50/hour/person).

And the odds are, you'd be playing Wozard101 for mroe than just one hour per week. Two or three hours is probably quite a reasonable estimate ... at which point, you're talking a dollar and some change, per hour and per person, for entertainment.

Survivor
Jun 26, 2008
1
if ur only gonna be able to get through wizard city on free play im probably not gonna play

Survivor
May 29, 2008
42
A lot of people are saying a lot of, what I consider to be, one sided reasoning. "Toontown has way more content for the same price." "Wizard*101* just doesn't have as much content as games already on the market." "Wizard*101* should have discounted prices."

First of all, consider the fact that a new company does not profit immediately. Right now, they are in the negative. How long do you think this game has been in development? How many people do you think work at KingsIsle? How much is KingsIsle paying its employees? And how much has KingsIsle made from their first project? I can't answer the first three, but I can say that the last question has a quite obvious answer. What's funding them? I would imagine loans. Loans must be payed back. And Wizard*101* hasn't received a dime from its players.

Now, for the people comparing this to World of Warcraft: what kind of logic is that? First off, different genres. Second, consider that Blizzard had plenty of games under their belt before WoW. The subscription prices are different (being that Wizard*101* is $5 cheaper on month to month) . The game has been on the market longer, so of course there is more content. Furthermore, much of the current content has been released after the game itself. Same with any other MMORPG out there. And no, Wizard*101* shouldn't lower their price simply for the fact that your paying for other games. Target doesn't offer discounts to customers who just finished shopping at Macy's...

Upon release, you can't expect a game to have extended content. That is aside from the fact that it has been announced, many times, that there will be added content once the game is launched. A lot of arguments here would be more valid if the game was already released, but it isn't.

Survivor
Jul 15, 2008
3
I only briefly scanned the first page of this, but as to the initial post, i think that the proposed plan would be a little overwhelming for the majority that the creators wish to target.

I can completely understand a) a monthly fee with no crowns or b)crowns with no monthly fee.

The "powers-that-be" must understand that the target demographic (which i believe is tweens) might have some trouble dishing out ~$120 a year, PLUS more money for crowns so that they can have the cool equipment they see other people have.

Yes, a business is, first and foremost, a business, but I think that many kids would be hard-pressed to continue playing this when they can play another game that they would only have to pay for one thing.

One of the things that I believe may work is having both pay services (monthly fee and crowns); HOWEVER, if one pays monthly, they should get a certain amount of crowns per month. Thus, if people choose not to pay monthly, you can still make money off of selling crowns. In addition, if people choose to pay monthly, then they do not have to spend more money on crowns.

Survivor
Jun 24, 2008
1
gmpax wrote:
MasterForm wrote:
Wait, so you are saying that if we play for free, we can't even get passed Wizard City?

That's right. What of it? It'll be free, after all, and as they say: you get what you paid for".

Except in this case, you're getting more than you pay for: you pay nothing, and get something. Just not everything.

TANSTAAFL


You are now my friend.

Yes, you're getting more than what you payed for, which is nothing.

Survivor
Jul 20, 2008
1
i play 4 other games ( won't mention the names), but you pay for a mmembership one time then if you want you can buy the money that is used in member only shops. as a non-member you have access to most of the game.

Survivor
Jun 07, 2008
5
make this game cash shop only for crowns, and let people access the whole game.

People be willing to buy a lot of crowns then pay monthly.

Anyways that's how I see it.

Survivor
Aug 02, 2008
8
I'd pay for this game, but I think that $9.95 per month is too much for what this game offers. It's linear and non-explorative. Granted it's creative and all, but this game isn't worth much more than $7.99 for it's value, and that would be pushing it. It would probably be amazingly successful at a $5.95 to $6.95 price point. $9.95 will be a death knell for this game.

At $9.95 it will reverse hockey-stick on $$$ intake quickly with a downhill ride of initial subs falling off immensely within 6 months because there's really only enough content for 3-4 weeks of play tops for the casual-plus gamers, and the game has little re-playability (there's not enough diversification between the play of the schools and the mobs you fight later on - how many elves/sharks/storms of each element can a person really stand).

Families will stick to their Wiis at those prices.

Survivor
Aug 22, 2008
7
9.95? lol, you guys really need to rethink that - try compare your price/content to all the other endless MMOs out their and wizard 101 really falls short, your aiming for one of the highest pricing brackets (ala WoW) for a game that can be finished within a month - with literally no end game content at all to speak of yet.

Take a look at any other mmo that costs 9.95 and you will see almost endless content for serious endgame powergamers or casual social players.

Just take a look at these forums, its pretty empty - your player base is small and mostly cant even speak to another, ive seen plenty of unreleased random crappy japmmorpg forums have more posts per day than this has in a week and looking around on other MMO listing/forum sites shows that wizard101 is barely talked about or noticed.

Should have just went with a full item shop, or a subscription service that provide crowns/vanity/even enchanced xp and drop rates.

I tend to play a LOT of mmo's, i am subscribed and seriously playing 5 of them atm and taking part in 10+ other betas

Sadly i think wizard101 will either perish under its pricing plans or have to seriously cut them - espically if you want to attract NEW players, since 3/4 of us here were beta players, theirs just noway someone looking for a new mmo to play and assesing content/price is going to think wizard101 looks like a great idea unless they already have had contact with the game.

Q.Q

Survivor
Aug 10, 2008
2
Kilajula wrote:
A lot of people are saying a lot of, what I consider to be, one sided reasoning. "Toontown has way more content for the same price." "Wizard*101* just doesn't have as much content as games already on the market." "Wizard*101* should have discounted prices."

First of all, consider the fact that a new company does not profit immediately. Right now, they are in the negative. How long do you think this game has been in development? How many people do you think work at KingsIsle? How much is KingsIsle paying its employees? And how much has KingsIsle made from their first project? I can't answer the first three, but I can say that the last question has a quite obvious answer. What's funding them? I would imagine loans. Loans must be payed back. And Wizard*101* hasn't received a dime from its players.

Now, for the people comparing this to World of Warcraft: what kind of logic is that? First off, different genres. Second, consider that Blizzard had plenty of games under their belt before WoW. The subscription prices are different (being that Wizard*101* is $5 cheaper on month to month) . The game has been on the market longer, so of course there is more content. Furthermore, much of the current content has been released after the game itself. Same with any other MMORPG out there. And no, Wizard*101* shouldn't lower their price simply for the fact that your paying for other games. Target doesn't offer discounts to customers who just finished shopping at Macy's...

Upon release, you can't expect a game to have extended content. That is aside from the fact that it has been announced, many times, that there will be added content once the game is launched. A lot of arguments here would be more valid if the game was already released, but it isn't.


I think in your enthusiasm, you're rather losing sight of reality here.

Of course Wizard is going to be compared to WoW et al, they're all paying MMOs and people will choose where to spend their money.

WoW on release had hundreds of hours of playable content including plenty of end game stuff. Wizard has NO end game content. Do you really think people will choose to pay for a game that they can't play because there's literally nothing for them to do?

To say more content will be released and base a buying decision on that is putting a lot of faith in the words of a marketing department and none in what your eyes are telling you. If there's no end game content now that will keep you coming back night after night, what makes you think some will suddenly appear?

You'll probably realise this when you've paid for a six month subscription which then lays dormant for four months because you have nothing you want (or indeed can) do in the game.

Survivor
May 30, 2008
1
I do not like this one bit. Toontown had far more content on it. I completed every quest in this game for about a month. There needs to be higher levels. With harder combat and tasks. More Worlds to make things balanced: TT takes about 6 months to fully master and get to the max level of 137.

I am dissapointed. It should be lowered to around 5 dollars or 3-5 UK POUNDS due to lack of content and how easy it is to master the game.

Survivor
Aug 16, 2008
3
gmpax wrote:
Gooberosity wrote:
I'm ok with SOME kind of monthly fee, but for my wife, my son, and myself, that's $30/month, or is there account linking or family accounts available? $30 is a bit too much. You should offer household discounts really.

Honestly, sir? Look at it this way: how much would it cost for you, your wife, and your son to go to a theater, and see a movie? Let's use prices near me; I'll even go so far as to assume Matinee pricing - otherwise, slap another $5 or so on top of this:

Tickets for two adults and one child (I assume your son is under 13) ... $25
Three drinks ... $15
Three snacks (popcorn, candy, whatever) ... $15

Well, that looks like $55 to me. For, what, about two hours ... right?

Even if you only played one night a week, for one hour ("Family Wizard101 night" or whatever), you're getting twice as much entertainment time, for less than 1/2 as much money.

Or, put another way: you can spend about $20 on each of you, your wife, and your son to get two hours of entertainment at the theater ($10/hour/person) ... or you can spend $10 apiece for 4 hours as a bare minimum estimate ($2.50/hour/person).

And the odds are, you'd be playing Wozard101 for mroe than just one hour per week. Two or three hours is probably quite a reasonable estimate ... at which point, you're talking a dollar and some change, per hour and per person, for entertainment.


That's a fallacious argument. You're assuming all entertainment has the same value per time unit. They don't. A movie may only be 2 hours long, but those 2 hours may be worth more entertainment than 2 hours of Wizard101. Also, $55? I never buy any food or drinks in movie theaters. They're way too overpriced.

Survivor
Aug 16, 2008
3
BTW, personally I'm a fan of Puzzle Pirate's (www.puzzlepirates.com) hybrid system.

They actually have two types of servers. One is subscription ($10/month, $6.25/month for 12 months) and one uses something called doubloons. The two servers are the same except for one thing.

On Subscription servers, you can't get certain higher-end clothing/equipment and play certain puzzles unless you pay.

On Doubloon servers, you can still get those items, but you need Doubloons. You also need to buy badges to actually play certain puzzles (though they have rotating free puzzles for people who don't pay).

The thing is, you can buy Doubloons off other people who bought doubloons with real money (there's actually an in-game doubloon exchange where you can post buy/sell offers). That way everyone can get access to everything on a Doubloon ocean, it just essentially costs them more in-game money vs. someone who buys doubloons on a monthly basis. Also, people who are willing to spend more real money can get in-game money by basically buying more doubloons and selling them off (I see Wizard101 already has this sytem in play with Zeke, but it's only one-way).

It doesn't unbalance the game because 1) All items including badges eventually decay in 1-3 months depending on the item (more expensive items tend to last longer). 2) Items don't affect the game that much. Most are cosmetic. "Dominating" in the game (winning ship battles) is more dependant on the crew's ability to do the ship puzzles.

Survivor
May 29, 2008
42
Velete wrote:
Take a look at any other mmo that costs 9.95 and you will see almost endless content for serious endgame powergamers or casual social players.
Now let's compare how long any other MMO that costs 9.95 has been on the market with Wizard*101*. OOPS! Wizard*101* isn't on the market yet. They will be adding content on release too. And continually added content after that. People need to stop acting like what's on the table now is as good as it gets. At least wait to see what is offered in the game at release, then your argument of comparisons might carry some weight.

Survivor
May 22, 2008
3
Just adding my response to the initial pricing post.

I agree that the post was too unclear on the specifics of how much content will be available at each level of play.

I don't like item Shops and won't use them.

I don't like PVP. Its addition adds nothing useful to me.

And finally, the big one.

The flat rate fee of $9.95 is too expensive. I understand that KI needs to make money. They have put a lot of time and money into Wizard101 development and have done a great job. But it comes down to simple economics. There are 4 people playing in our house. The main player is my 7-year old son. My wife and I play because we enjoy it, but mainly to have a game to play with him (we both play WoW regularly). Our 4 year old daughter also has a Wizard. But she mainly runs around Wizard City, and occasionally teleports to us to "help" in fights. But she has slowly been getting better and started to understand the basics of Quests. Her brother has been a great help (and we have been loving the cooperation it has been fostering between them). But from what I can tell the only way to accomplish all of that after Release is to have 4 full accounts. And as fun as it has been, $40/month is just too much money.

If they had a Family Account for $20/month, we would do it no question.

If the F2P account could get to any location but have limited access to certain items, that could work.

If the Full Access account was $5/month, we'd be in.

But unless they implement some combination of these, we just can't do it. And I fear that there are a LOT of Families (a large part of the target audience) that will be in a similar situation.

Good Luck, and thanks for the change to try it out.

Explorer
Jul 12, 2008
75
I doubt I'll be playing after the game goes live. I've said all along that I wouldn't mind paying a monthly fee or paying for cash shop items, but BOTH? So you are telling me that I pay 9.95 a month and then I still have to pay more to get the cool crown-related items? I can understand paying 9.95 a month. I can also understand a cash shop to get the cool stuff. I'm not about to pay for both. Perhaps when the "really exciting things come down the pipe" I will reconsider, as long as I'm not paying more than $10 a month. I've enjoyed my time as a beta tester.

Survivor
May 29, 2008
42
buckeye wrote:
I think in your enthusiasm, you're rather losing sight of reality here.

Of course Wizard is going to be compared to WoW et al, they're all paying MMOs and people will choose where to spend their money.

WoW on release had hundreds of hours of playable content including plenty of end game stuff. Wizard has NO end game content. Do you really think people will choose to pay for a game that they can't play because there's literally nothing for them to do?

To say more content will be released and base a buying decision on that is putting a lot of faith in the words of a marketing department and none in what your eyes are telling you. If there's no end game content now that will keep you coming back night after night, what makes you think some will suddenly appear?

You'll probably realise this when you've paid for a six month subscription which then lays dormant for four months because you have nothing you want (or indeed can) do in the game.
I agree, people will choose where to spend their money. But to do so because they have already invested in another game is no reason to want KingsIsle to lower their price. I'm not saying Wizard*101* is better or worse than WoW, just that you shouldn't tell a company to lower their price for the simple fact that you're playing another game. One that has been out for years and has had the time to develop the content it has. What will keep me coming back day after day? I enjoy it. I don't enjoy WoW... But you don't see me going on their forums and telling them to lower their price, do you?

And that's quite a bold statement of yours to assume that after paying for a subscription, it would go dormant for 4 months. We already know that a new world will be released with the game. You have no idea what I enjoy or why I play. Furthermore you don't know how long it takes me to get through one world. I do happen to know myself better than you know me. So no, you're wrong there.