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What happened to the old crown gear?

AuthorMessage
Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Was it merely made no longer obtainable? Or was it changed, and more to the point, nerfed, to be more in line with the new crown gear? The new level 45 crown boots are better than the old level 35 ones were.

But for the robes and hat, if you just made the best gear in the game no longer obtainable, that could be a really, really bad thing to do for PvP purposes. And make no mistake: the level 35 crown robe and hat were the best gear for their slot in the game. For the remainder of this post, I'll assume that the stats on items that existed before the patch were left unchanged; please correct me if that's mistaken.

Let's stick to robes, since the analysis for hats is similar. For a storm or ice wizard, the robes that Malistaire drops are fairly comparable to the level 35 crown gear, and maybe a little better. For a life or death wizard, the robes that Malistaire drops probably aren't as good as the old level 35 crown gear, but one could at least make a case for them being comparable. For fire or myth, arguing that the level 35 crown robe wasn't the best in the game is just laughable. Let's go with myth for the comparison.

Old level 35 crown gear:
+240 health
+4% power pip chance
+3% all accuracy
+7% all damage
+10% all defense

New level 45 crown gear:
+129 health
+3% power pip chance
+2% all accuracy
+7% all damage
+7% all defense

As you can see, the damage boost is left unchanged, while all the rest of the stats are weaker on the new level 45 crown gear. So what about other gear? Let's take the robes that Malistaire drops:

Malistaire Drake's Unhallowed Tunic:
+300 health
+4% myth accuracy
+10% myth damage
+17% myth defense

Let's start by noting that the Malistaire robe only affects your primary class, while the crown robe affects all, which gives it an advantage. For accuracy and damage, let's ignore that distinction, as if you use your own class spells, it doesn't matter.

For defense, on the other hand, the distinction is huge. A myth wizard may use solely myth spells, but his opponents won't. If we assume that opponents use each school of magic with equal probability, then 17% myth defense is roughly comparable to 17/7 ~ 2.43% all defense. For the sake of skewing the analysis away from the old crown gear, let's round up to 3%.

Malistaire's robe then gives an extra 60 health, 1% accuracy, and 3% damage. The old level 35 crown gear gives an extra 4% power pip chance and 7% defense. 4% power pip chance is a lot better than 1% accuracy. +3% defense is marginally better than +3% damage. +4% defense is better than +60 health. Therefore, the old level 35 crown robe is better.

Some might quibble about those last two comparisons, so perhaps I should elaborate. A level 50 myth wizard has 1500 health, plus whatever he gets from gear. 4% defense means he takes 1/.96 times as much damage to defeat. 1500/.96 = 1562.5 > 1560. If he has some additional health or additional defense gear, the comparison is considerably more lopsided in favor of the 4% defense.

Let's do a bit of algebra and make the comparison to how much health with no defense the gear would be comparable to. Suppose that a player has an extra +x health from other gear and +y% defense from other gear. The health equivalent with Malistaire's robe is (1560+x)(100/(100-y)). With the old level 35 crown gear, it is (1500+x)(100/(96-y)). The advantage of the latter over the former is

(1500+x)(100/(96-y)) - (1560+x)(100/(100-y))
= [100/((100-y)(96-y))][(1500+x)(100-y) - (1560+x)(96-y)]
= [100/((100-y)(96-y))][(150000+100x-1500y-xy) - (149760+96x-1560y-xy)]
= [100/((100-y)(96-y))](240+4x+60y)

It is clear from this last line that increasing either x or y makes the advantage of the old crown gear over Malistaire's robe larger, not smaller.

So what about comparing +damage to +defense? That +defense is better might surprise some people, but it very easily drops out of the algebra. Suppose that one player has +x% damage and another player has +x% defense. Suppose that they fight each other. Who wins?

The latter player will do normal damage to the former player. The multiple of normal damage that the former player will do to the latter is (1+x/100)(1-x/100) = 1-(x^2)/100 < 1. The latter player has the clear advantage.

The intuition is very easy to grasp. Suppose that x = 100. One player does double damage. The other player takes no damage at all. The former player cannot scratch the latter, while the latter player does normal damage to the former.

One could argue that I've ignored the card. Malistaire's robe gives an earthquake card. The old level 35 crown robe also gave the identical earthquake robe. The old level 35 crown gear had other choices for a card, too, in case a player preferred that.

So is there some other gear that is better than the old level 35 crown gear? Let's look at the level 45 pvp gear for a comparison.

Coif of the Gladiator
+132 health
+3% myth accuracy
+7% myth damage
+13% myth defense

As you can see, all stats on it are less than that of Malistaire's robe. That's certainly not an upgrade. That's pretty typical of all of the other boss drop robes, so I won't copy down their stats here.

So one could ask, why is this such a bad thing? The answer is that it means that someone who wants to obtain gear after the patch can never catch up to someone who obtained gear before the patch.

Suppose, for example, that you were to give every player in the game right now a free pet that makes you do double damage. That pet is unobtainable to future characters that will be created. What happens if a player with the pet fights against one without the pet? If the battle should have been remotely close, the one with the pet will win, and easily.

That's a bad thing, right? But it differs only in degree from making the best gear for a particular slot no longer obtainable.

What's the solution? Probably to nerf the old crown gear down to the stats of the new crown gear of the same level. The patch notes don't mention such a change.

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Are you really thinking that KI would cut back on already sold goods paid for with hard earned cash after the item was bought? That is like buying a dozen eggs at the store and after paying the store taking a few of them back...

The items were bought with the stats in mind, many people probably discarding a Boss Drop item fairly similiar but not quite in favor of the itme they bought. They may have even bought knowing they could in the future had down the items so that multiple characters of different schools could benefit.

As an aside, if KI sees no one buying crowns to purchase crown items because they are worse than in game drops, they will change them back. Crown items are supposed to be a little bit more...otherwise why pay for them?

Mastermind
Sep 20, 2008
336


I agree with you in principle, Quizzical; The new "Curse Gear" (and even the stuff that doesn't give a de-buff) is stupid and an insult to KI's players..... But since none of us owns Wizard 101, I seriously doubt they will ever change the situation...

As I have stated elsewhere, .... I will not purchase Crowns or pay a penny more than my monthly subscription rate as long as those items stay on the Shelves....


Mastermind
Sep 20, 2008
336
MikeStrath wrote:
Are you really thinking that KI would cut back on already sold goods paid for with hard earned cash after the item was bought? That is like buying a dozen eggs at the store and after paying the store taking a few of them back...

The items were bought with the stats in mind, many people probably discarding a Boss Drop item fairly similiar but not quite in favor of the itme they bought. They may have even bought knowing they could in the future had down the items so that multiple characters of different schools could benefit.

As an aside, if KI sees no one buying crowns to purchase crown items because they are worse than in game drops, they will change them back. Crown items are supposed to be a little bit more...otherwise why pay for them?




Great minds think alike, I see .... Stop buying Crowns; and let's see how fast they change out the stuff, since such behavior hurts KI in its wallet. As despite all illusions otherwise, KingIsle is a business.

They need to pay their Executives, hmm?

Scarlet SkullHammer (Death 35, Black Cat Pet, "Shadow")


Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Another solution would be to give the new level 45 crown gear identical stats to the old level 35 crown gear.

Defender
Oct 19, 2008
108
I am going to stop buying crowns as a protest until the old crown gear comes back, I liked the old originals! And also explained in Qizzicals message says that the originals were better! Please, we do not want the new stuff to go, just add the originals so we can choose.

Survivor
Mar 08, 2009
5
I appreciate the argument that overall the old crown gear is better than the newly introduced gear, in particular the hat and robe.

However, if I play devil’s advocate for a moment, I’m hoping where King’s Isle is heading with their periodic refreshes of crown gear is to introduce richness into the kinds of equipment combinations that are available to players. If that is the case then I would not be surprised to see a number of different combinations of various generations of crown gear and drop gear ending up being the “best” depending on circumstances. I would also not be surprised if reworked versions of particularly popular generations of crown gear either reappeared as drops or new crown gear. It’s a young game and there is a lot of time to bring out all kinds of interesting new gear. It’s quite possible that we will see gear with set bonuses, gear from crafting, gear that can be enchanted, or even gear with new types of bonuses (like evasion, % damage reflection, or chance of added effect etc…).

From a purely business perspective I can see the benefit in refreshing the crown gear, but only if people are willing to purchase it. So, although I appreciate your disappointment over the current unavailability of the 1st generation crown gear, I’m pretty certain that King’s Isle will do whatever they think is necessary to keep the crown gear interesting in the long run.


Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
You were given fair warning and even access to the new crown gear on the test realm to see the changes. You should've bought the old gear while you had the chance. There WAS no level 45 Crown Gear so when it was added it reflected the change to the Crown Gear that KI implemented. Yes the prepatch three 35lvl Crown Hats and the three 35lvl Crown Robes are now arguably the best gear in the game. For now anyway. I'm not terribly concerned with the old gear giving players an advantage because eventually it will all even out as players quit the game and new ones join. That old Crown Gear will ultimately filter itself out.

There was an outcry that Crown Gear was too powerful so KI fixed it. I honestly DON'T see them nerfing the old crown gear as that was purposely bought with real money.

Crown Gear has always had the best defense and basically still does when compared to drops or PvP gear simply for the reasons you stated. It has defense against all schools while the other gear is only for one school. This is nothing new. The only thing new is the PvP aspect of it all and trust me...that will NEVER be evened out to everyone's satisfaction.

Beta Testers received a pet called the Pioneer Dragon. It gives a balance blade card with a 30% damage increase I think. This pet is not available to anyone else and never will be. It's the large dragon pet that is striped or has stars and moons on it or whatever. So you see, the "pet" thing has already happened and it hasn't upset the game balance.

MMO's change over time. Stuff gets added, buffed, nerfed, and changed again and again. Just accept it and move on or quit. Pretty simple actually.

You seem to have put alot of effort into your post to prove something that is not only easily discernible with just a glance at the different stats of the different gear, but a widely known gripe from players that KI is trying to address with the downgrading of the Crown Gear.. Perhaps that effort is better spent in adjusting to the new playing environment.

Explorer
Feb 21, 2009
66
This new crown gear needs to go, the old stuff needs to come back. I thought they really went over the edge when they added crown gear that reduces a certain stat! Also, the new crown gear's stats are far below that of the old crown gear, but they cost about the same price. Example, the new boots in Marleybone that give Satyr, as well as a few weak stat bonuses, costs about the same as the old boots that gave over double the stat boosts, as well as a MUCH better card (Judgment).

I would very much like the old crown gear back (even though I purchase it with gold).

Administrator
I'm closing this thread and pointing our players to the main post about the new items here:
https://www.wizard101.com/site/posts/list/4566.ftl
Please post any further comments on that thread, and thank you for your feedback.

{o,o}
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