Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Tempest is Overrated

1
AuthorMessage
Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
I am a max level Storm wizard, and this is my opinion on Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • Tempest does 80 damage per pip.
  • Storm Lord does 99 damage per pip, 19 more than Tempest.
  • Sirens does 98 damage per pip, 18 more than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • At 7 pips, Tempest does 560 damage. At 7 pips, Storm Lord does 690 damage, 130 more damage than Tempest.
  • At 8 pips, Tempest does 640 damage. At 8 pips, Sirens does 880 damage, 240 more damage than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You might say "but at 14 pips Tempest does 1120 damage". First, you'd need a good power pip chance for this. Second, I will explain why using Storm Lord is still better. To start, with gear that gives good damage and a few blades/traps placed while building up to 7 pips, Storm Lord can easily surpass 1120 damage. You can blade and trap Tempest, but Storm Lord, doing more damage, has a head start.

Also, a Storm wizard has low health. Waiting to get 14 pips to cast Tempest is inefficient and slow, as you'd have to heal in between, thus losing pips. You would also be losing pips through certain blades and traps. It would take a while to cast a good Tempest at the maximum 14 pips. You would kill off the enemies faster with a Storm Lord, and even faster with a Sirens or Glowbugs. You would also be able to cast these non-Tempest AOEs more often as you wouldn't be waiting to get maximum pips.

Also, if you are on a team, using the maximum pip Tempest would hold them up. Even if it wasn't maximum pips, if it wasn't still slow, you would be wasting pips that could've gone to a superior AOE.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here are the cases when Tempest is useful:
  • Before getting Storm Lord
  • When you need to do low damage, such as finishing off enemies or abolishing shields
  • When someone who knows nothing about the Storm school refuses to quest with you unless you put Tempest in your deck

In conclusion, please stop obsessing over Tempest. Tempest is useful in limited situations, but not very many. That's the objective reality.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
To people who disagree with me, please keep in mind to not let the frustrated tone distract you from my arguments and that this post was written because of something that has happens a lot: me teaming up, then my teammates leaving because I don't use Tempest, and oh look I have team-up penalty now. It's frustrating to no end.

Mastermind
Apr 13, 2011
397
Fable Finder on May 26, 2018 wrote:
I am a max level Storm wizard, and this is my opinion on Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • Tempest does 80 damage per pip.
  • Storm Lord does 99 damage per pip, 19 more than Tempest.
  • Sirens does 98 damage per pip, 18 more than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • At 7 pips, Tempest does 560 damage. At 7 pips, Storm Lord does 690 damage, 130 more damage than Tempest.
  • At 8 pips, Tempest does 640 damage. At 8 pips, Sirens does 880 damage, 240 more damage than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You might say "but at 14 pips Tempest does 1120 damage". First, you'd need a good power pip chance for this. Second, I will explain why using Storm Lord is still better. To start, with gear that gives good damage and a few blades/traps placed while building up to 7 pips, Storm Lord can easily surpass 1120 damage. You can blade and trap Tempest, but Storm Lord, doing more damage, has a head start.

Also, a Storm wizard has low health. Waiting to get 14 pips to cast Tempest is inefficient and slow, as you'd have to heal in between, thus losing pips. You would also be losing pips through certain blades and traps. It would take a while to cast a good Tempest at the maximum 14 pips. You would kill off the enemies faster with a Storm Lord, and even faster with a Sirens or Glowbugs. You would also be able to cast these non-Tempest AOEs more often as you wouldn't be waiting to get maximum pips.

Also, if you are on a team, using the maximum pip Tempest would hold them up. Even if it wasn't maximum pips, if it wasn't still slow, you would be wasting pips that could've gone to a superior AOE.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here are the cases when Tempest is useful:
  • Before getting Storm Lord
  • When you need to do low damage, such as finishing off enemies or abolishing shields
  • When someone who knows nothing about the Storm school refuses to quest with you unless you put Tempest in your deck

In conclusion, please stop obsessing over Tempest. Tempest is useful in limited situations, but not very many. That's the objective reality.
the useful reason you yourself stated are the reasons its a keeper. I always have one in my deck to finish off the enemies if there is no other option and in that sense its versatile because you can wait a few rounds it builds up damage. also at max level, heck even level 100 most wizard should have gear that puts them at or over 100% power pip chance so power pips aren't much of an issue. by the way just figured I would mention that sirens is 9 pips not 8 so your math was wrong.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
Fable Finder on May 26, 2018 wrote:
I am a max level Storm wizard, and this is my opinion on Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • Tempest does 80 damage per pip.
  • Storm Lord does 99 damage per pip, 19 more than Tempest.
  • Sirens does 98 damage per pip, 18 more than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  • At 7 pips, Tempest does 560 damage. At 7 pips, Storm Lord does 690 damage, 130 more damage than Tempest.
  • At 8 pips, Tempest does 640 damage. At 8 pips, Sirens does 880 damage, 240 more damage than Tempest.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You might say "but at 14 pips Tempest does 1120 damage". First, you'd need a good power pip chance for this. Second, I will explain why using Storm Lord is still better. To start, with gear that gives good damage and a few blades/traps placed while building up to 7 pips, Storm Lord can easily surpass 1120 damage. You can blade and trap Tempest, but Storm Lord, doing more damage, has a head start.

Also, a Storm wizard has low health. Waiting to get 14 pips to cast Tempest is inefficient and slow, as you'd have to heal in between, thus losing pips. You would also be losing pips through certain blades and traps. It would take a while to cast a good Tempest at the maximum 14 pips. You would kill off the enemies faster with a Storm Lord, and even faster with a Sirens or Glowbugs. You would also be able to cast these non-Tempest AOEs more often as you wouldn't be waiting to get maximum pips.

Also, if you are on a team, using the maximum pip Tempest would hold them up. Even if it wasn't maximum pips, if it wasn't still slow, you would be wasting pips that could've gone to a superior AOE.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here are the cases when Tempest is useful:
  • Before getting Storm Lord
  • When you need to do low damage, such as finishing off enemies or abolishing shields
  • When someone who knows nothing about the Storm school refuses to quest with you unless you put Tempest in your deck

In conclusion, please stop obsessing over Tempest. Tempest is useful in limited situations, but not very many. That's the objective reality.
The option to cast it no matter how many pips you have is a huge bonus though! Plus you can hit multiple times in the time it takes to get 7 pips for one hit, which means you can enchant it multiple times.

At level 30 you likely start with 3 pips (1 single and 1 power pip) - temp plus monstrous tc = 415
Depending on your power pips you will have between 2-4 more rounds to hit them again with more monstrous added.

If you get white pips then your 7 pips to cast storm lord could have been used to hit for 1435; with power pips it would still have been 1085.

Temp is totally OP!

Explorer
Jan 12, 2013
63
80 per pip + 300 epic = 380 attack all for 1 pip. Plus huge attack boosts and critical storm gets = 1000-2000 attack all for 1 pip. Tempest is very good for small pip attacks once you add on the epic. Epic adds more % to low pip spells than high pip spells. And you don't always want to be saving 7 pips+ for attacks. Two tempests with low pips > 1 storm lord with high pips because you get two epics as well. Tempest is like many spells - very powerful if you use it right.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
the awesome pyroma... on May 27, 2018 wrote:
the useful reason you yourself stated are the reasons its a keeper. I always have one in my deck to finish off the enemies if there is no other option and in that sense its versatile because you can wait a few rounds it builds up damage. also at max level, heck even level 100 most wizard should have gear that puts them at or over 100% power pip chance so power pips aren't much of an issue. by the way just figured I would mention that sirens is 9 pips not 8 so your math was wrong.
The thing is, KingsIsle foolishly decided to let graphic space keep our decks stuck at 60 slots (starting at now old Dragonspyre!) despite how outdated that is, especially considering new schools. I made a post called "Deck Reform Now" on this forum. Any space Tempest takes up is a wasted opportunity to use our extremely constrained deck slots on a more useful spell. Because of this, I can only afford to include Tempest in my mob deck. My other decks can't afford it because they need a larger spell variety than a mob deck.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Michael Bluestone on May 27, 2018 wrote:
80 per pip + 300 epic = 380 attack all for 1 pip. Plus huge attack boosts and critical storm gets = 1000-2000 attack all for 1 pip. Tempest is very good for small pip attacks once you add on the epic. Epic adds more % to low pip spells than high pip spells. And you don't always want to be saving 7 pips+ for attacks. Two tempests with low pips > 1 storm lord with high pips because you get two epics as well. Tempest is like many spells - very powerful if you use it right.
I wish that is how it worked. But alas, when you enchant Tempest it adds it onto the end of the spell, not the 80 damage per pip. So if you enchant Tempest with 300 and cast it at 7 regular pips, it will do 860 damage.

Math Correction: At 9 pips, Tempest does 720 damage. At 9 pips, Sirens does 880 damage, 120 more damage than Tempest.

Sirens would beat out Tempest in this situation.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Victoria FireHeart on May 27, 2018 wrote:
The option to cast it no matter how many pips you have is a huge bonus though! Plus you can hit multiple times in the time it takes to get 7 pips for one hit, which means you can enchant it multiple times.

At level 30 you likely start with 3 pips (1 single and 1 power pip) - temp plus monstrous tc = 415
Depending on your power pips you will have between 2-4 more rounds to hit them again with more monstrous added.

If you get white pips then your 7 pips to cast storm lord could have been used to hit for 1435; with power pips it would still have been 1085.

Temp is totally OP!
You can hit multiple times, but the hits will be inferior to what a Storm Lord or Sirens could have done. I've tried the Tempest strategy, blades, enchants, gear, and all. The hits don't compare to other AOEs because the other AOEs have a head start. You must also remember these AOEs can also be enchanted.

It is a bonus that you can cast Tempest whenever (which is why it is useful for the things I listed), but if you want the Tempest to deal decent damage you will have to build up pips. And by the time you've built up pips you may as well use Sirens or Storm Lord instead. You may say that Tempest can kill over time, but it will take longer than killing over time with a Storm Lord. By the time you get Storm Lord, you'll probably have decent power pip chance after all.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2412
Tempest, like every other spell, has it's uses. It is NOT for every situation. I keep one in my deck because it's a great cleanup spell. That's the biggest usage for X-pip spells; cleaning up after a big hit to kill the enemies. I never used heckhound this way because it was a single target spell, but I used judgement that way. Keep in mind when I was on my fire I solo due to lack of partners, and now I have a partner so my strategy changed.

NOBODY likes being told how to pay the game, and I feel for you there. it's nobody else's business to tell you how to kill things. If you agreed on it BEFORE going into the fight, and you didnt do something, then i'd be on their side, but if they jsu ASSUMED you were going to do something, then to bad, so sad for them.

Explorer
Oct 01, 2011
71
For me Tempest is a spell that never leaves my deck, its just too versatile.

The way I quest and play is all about efficiency, how can I defeat mobs/bosses the fastest with the highest chance of drawing what I want when I want. To that end my Mob killing deck consists of 1 Bugs, 1 Storm lord, 2 Tempests, 3 Epics, 2 blades, 1 sharpen blade, 1 Pet blade and 1 amulet blade. TC: 1 blade, 1 cleanse charm and 1 pierce.
(for mobs like pre nerf mirage/some Empyrea I also carry 2 Windstorm and 1 potent trap due to high health/block)

For example with my current set up I have 118 damage and 100% critical, a straight tempest does 3048 (critical) or something very close and most mobs have just about 3200 or more HP.
So I usually blade once then hit with storm lord (unless i got a shadow pip then i just hit) which will often kill everything IF they dont block. If they do block then it is a waste of time to pass for 2-3 rounds to use another storm lord or bugs when I could use a 2 pip (very rare I will not have a power pip with 96% power pip) enchanted tempest which can do up to around 2000 damage with a critical OR just blade (buffing the tempest with +35% AND a free 160 damage)
Then if i am unlucky enough that they block again i just tempest a second time and if they SOMEHOW survive that i admit defeat and pass until I can bugs

Boss fights its just nice to have, often if I have bladed and feinted up then I simply need a hit to kill (anything more than a storm shark will kill kinda thing) then it can be used at any point. Didn't get that power pip at 5 pips? no problem.
Just survived your 9 pip sirens? why put in a thunder snake when you could simply have a tempest
Overestimate your damage and all you have left is a shark? with tempest you can pass and gain a storm lord or sirens while also not needing to carry a smaller annoying hit

I don't draw it in boss fights when I don't need it because my boss deck is my Mob deck with 2 feints and a potent trap added

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
Fable Finder on May 27, 2018 wrote:
The thing is, KingsIsle foolishly decided to let graphic space keep our decks stuck at 60 slots (starting at now old Dragonspyre!) despite how outdated that is, especially considering new schools. I made a post called "Deck Reform Now" on this forum. Any space Tempest takes up is a wasted opportunity to use our extremely constrained deck slots on a more useful spell. Because of this, I can only afford to include Tempest in my mob deck. My other decks can't afford it because they need a larger spell variety than a mob deck.
When I responded there was literally only the first post showing. I can now see the second post plus subsequent posts including the one quoted.

There seems to be 3 different yet linked issues:
1. Teams leaving because you don't have Temp
2. 60 card decks being 'extremely constrained'
3. The pros and cons of Temp V Storm Lord/Sirens

1. The only way your team would know you do not carry Temp would be if there has been a moment in battle where Temp would have been useful and you told them you don't carry it. If there was no moment it would have been useful they wouldn't have any way of knowing you were not choosing a superior hit instead.

2. I don't know of anyone who fills a 60 card deck or struggles because it is 'extremely constrained'. The biggest deck I use is for solo battles where no-one else is affected or even knows whether I am being efficient but I don't need 60 cards. For Mobs and Teams we don't need to carry everything because our team will have things covered for us if we trust them to

I suspect (forgive me if I am wrong) that the real issue here is an over-filled deck that leads to inefficiency which causes frustration in the team resulting in them leaving...which naturally leads to you feeling frustrated and rejected (exactly how any of us would feel btw) which leads to number 3; wanting to justify the exclusion of Temp in the over-filled deck.

If this is the case then the problem we should perhaps be looking at solving is negative reactions from teams that causes upset. The cause of this is inefficiency due to the over-filled deck. We can make suggestions to help you reduce your deck so you are more efficient, more confident and more likely to have positive team interactions if you would like us to

If you're up for that just let us know what spells you have in your team deck, the pet/item cards you have and the TC you carry then we can work with you by suggesting some ways we'd change it up that work for us and might be great for you too

Explorer
Jan 12, 2013
63
Fable Finder on May 27, 2018 wrote:
I wish that is how it worked. But alas, when you enchant Tempest it adds it onto the end of the spell, not the 80 damage per pip. So if you enchant Tempest with 300 and cast it at 7 regular pips, it will do 860 damage.

Math Correction: At 9 pips, Tempest does 720 damage. At 9 pips, Sirens does 880 damage, 120 more damage than Tempest.

Sirens would beat out Tempest in this situation.
You misread my post. My point is that the epic changes the maths dramatically. Lets assume for simplicity that a storm has 100% attack boost and criticals for effective 4 times damage.

If you cast tempest with 1 pip it does (80 + 300 epic) * 4 = 1520 damage for one pip
If you cast tempest with 2 pips it does (160 + 300) * 4 = 1840 (920 per pip)
With 4 pips its 2480 or 620 per pip
By the time you get to 7 pips it does 3440 or 490 per pip
By the time you get to 10 pips it does 4400 or 440 per pip

Clearly the epic makes it much more efficient to cast at low pips. Much more damage per pip.

So two tempests with 2 pips does 3680, which is much more than one tempest with 4 pips (only 2480), and still more than one tempest with 7 pips (3440).

Your pessimistic scenario for tempest is based on one scenario where you blade stack and go for one big hit. Makes sense in some situations and no one is arguing tempest is best for all scenarios. But lets look at situations where tempest is useful.

1) Attacking minions with <5k health in groups (e.g. secret tunnel). Everyone hits with blizzard, meteor, tempest, etc first round and you can often kill. If not, storm is the only school that can do strong attack all second round without waiting for 4 pips (or ice if they get dark pip).

2) cheating bosses that don't let you blade stack or are spamming shields / negative charms. Sometimes many small hits more feasible strategy than one big hit.

3) Very versatile for team PvP where opponents don't generally let you blade stack or you need quick kills or clean ups.

No one is arguing tempest is best for all purposes, but it is certainly a useful spell, especially at low pips for reasons outlined above (extra efficiency after adding epic on)

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
dayerider on May 27, 2018 wrote:
Tempest, like every other spell, has it's uses. It is NOT for every situation. I keep one in my deck because it's a great cleanup spell. That's the biggest usage for X-pip spells; cleaning up after a big hit to kill the enemies. I never used heckhound this way because it was a single target spell, but I used judgement that way. Keep in mind when I was on my fire I solo due to lack of partners, and now I have a partner so my strategy changed.

NOBODY likes being told how to pay the game, and I feel for you there. it's nobody else's business to tell you how to kill things. If you agreed on it BEFORE going into the fight, and you didnt do something, then i'd be on their side, but if they jsu ASSUMED you were going to do something, then to bad, so sad for them.
Usually they assume. The purpose of this post was to make a point that you don't need Tempest to be a good Storm wizard (the point is not to get people to stop using Tempest, idc if you use it).

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Stealthhawk129 on May 28, 2018 wrote:
For me Tempest is a spell that never leaves my deck, its just too versatile.

The way I quest and play is all about efficiency, how can I defeat mobs/bosses the fastest with the highest chance of drawing what I want when I want. To that end my Mob killing deck consists of 1 Bugs, 1 Storm lord, 2 Tempests, 3 Epics, 2 blades, 1 sharpen blade, 1 Pet blade and 1 amulet blade. TC: 1 blade, 1 cleanse charm and 1 pierce.
(for mobs like pre nerf mirage/some Empyrea I also carry 2 Windstorm and 1 potent trap due to high health/block)

For example with my current set up I have 118 damage and 100% critical, a straight tempest does 3048 (critical) or something very close and most mobs have just about 3200 or more HP.
So I usually blade once then hit with storm lord (unless i got a shadow pip then i just hit) which will often kill everything IF they dont block. If they do block then it is a waste of time to pass for 2-3 rounds to use another storm lord or bugs when I could use a 2 pip (very rare I will not have a power pip with 96% power pip) enchanted tempest which can do up to around 2000 damage with a critical OR just blade (buffing the tempest with +35% AND a free 160 damage)
Then if i am unlucky enough that they block again i just tempest a second time and if they SOMEHOW survive that i admit defeat and pass until I can bugs

Boss fights its just nice to have, often if I have bladed and feinted up then I simply need a hit to kill (anything more than a storm shark will kill kinda thing) then it can be used at any point. Didn't get that power pip at 5 pips? no problem.
Just survived your 9 pip sirens? why put in a thunder snake when you could simply have a tempest
Overestimate your damage and all you have left is a shark? with tempest you can pass and gain a storm lord or sirens while also not needing to carry a smaller annoying hit

I don't draw it in boss fights when I don't need it because my boss deck is my Mob deck with 2 feints and a potent trap added
You see the first usage you listed falls under the category of finishing enemies off, which is something Tempest is useful for. You said you used Storm Lord first then used Tempest to finish them off. As for boss fights you implied that you used it the same way, to finish enemies off. ("Just survived your 9 pip sirens? why put in a thunder snake when you could simply have a tempest")

Also, you have Thunder Snake in your deck?

I include Tempest in my mob deck because I don't need a big deck or a variety of spells to kill mobs, since they are easy, so I am able to include Tempest. But I don't in my other decks because they are more specialized and due to the very limited deck space, if I included Tempest in these decks their utility would be hampered.

But if Tempest works for you go for it, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play the game. I just want to end this stigma against Storm wizards who don't use Tempest. And even if you think Tempest is a great spell, can you really deny that it's overrated if people leave dungeons just because I don't use the spell?

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
657
Its true there are other spells that bring more damage at higher pip levels. However, Tempest is my max storm's go to spell. I just find it too useful at ending battles quicker.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2412
Fable Finder on May 28, 2018 wrote:
Usually they assume. The purpose of this post was to make a point that you don't need Tempest to be a good Storm wizard (the point is not to get people to stop using Tempest, idc if you use it).
no, you absolutely dont need tempest, or any other attack spell to be a good storm (or other school) wizard. This is something that has been talked about many times, how each class gets pigeonholed into the "you MUST do this for me". For life it's healing, death it's feint, etc etc

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Michael Bluestone on May 28, 2018 wrote:
You misread my post. My point is that the epic changes the maths dramatically. Lets assume for simplicity that a storm has 100% attack boost and criticals for effective 4 times damage.

If you cast tempest with 1 pip it does (80 + 300 epic) * 4 = 1520 damage for one pip
If you cast tempest with 2 pips it does (160 + 300) * 4 = 1840 (920 per pip)
With 4 pips its 2480 or 620 per pip
By the time you get to 7 pips it does 3440 or 490 per pip
By the time you get to 10 pips it does 4400 or 440 per pip

Clearly the epic makes it much more efficient to cast at low pips. Much more damage per pip.

So two tempests with 2 pips does 3680, which is much more than one tempest with 4 pips (only 2480), and still more than one tempest with 7 pips (3440).

Your pessimistic scenario for tempest is based on one scenario where you blade stack and go for one big hit. Makes sense in some situations and no one is arguing tempest is best for all scenarios. But lets look at situations where tempest is useful.

1) Attacking minions with <5k health in groups (e.g. secret tunnel). Everyone hits with blizzard, meteor, tempest, etc first round and you can often kill. If not, storm is the only school that can do strong attack all second round without waiting for 4 pips (or ice if they get dark pip).

2) cheating bosses that don't let you blade stack or are spamming shields / negative charms. Sometimes many small hits more feasible strategy than one big hit.

3) Very versatile for team PvP where opponents don't generally let you blade stack or you need quick kills or clean ups.

No one is arguing tempest is best for all purposes, but it is certainly a useful spell, especially at low pips for reasons outlined above (extra efficiency after adding epic on)
Actually, you misread my post. Your math is wrong.

Let's say you have 4 regular pips, meaning your Tempest will do 320 base damage. When you enchant Tempest with Epic, it does not add the "300" onto the damage per pip, it adds it onto the total amount of damage the Tempest will do. So say you have 4 pips, and you enchant a Tempest. The game will in a way calculate how much Tempest would do without the enchant (320), then assuming it's Epic, add on 300 damage. So, a 4 pip Tempest with Epic and no other damage boosts would do 620 damage.

This is supported by what happens when you enchant Tempest. When you enchant Tempest with Epic, it will not say "380 damage per pip", it will say "80 damage per pip + 300". It's an important distinction.

To be continued...

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Michael Bluestone on May 28, 2018 wrote:
You misread my post. My point is that the epic changes the maths dramatically. Lets assume for simplicity that a storm has 100% attack boost and criticals for effective 4 times damage.

If you cast tempest with 1 pip it does (80 + 300 epic) * 4 = 1520 damage for one pip
If you cast tempest with 2 pips it does (160 + 300) * 4 = 1840 (920 per pip)
With 4 pips its 2480 or 620 per pip
By the time you get to 7 pips it does 3440 or 490 per pip
By the time you get to 10 pips it does 4400 or 440 per pip

Clearly the epic makes it much more efficient to cast at low pips. Much more damage per pip.

So two tempests with 2 pips does 3680, which is much more than one tempest with 4 pips (only 2480), and still more than one tempest with 7 pips (3440).

Your pessimistic scenario for tempest is based on one scenario where you blade stack and go for one big hit. Makes sense in some situations and no one is arguing tempest is best for all scenarios. But lets look at situations where tempest is useful.

1) Attacking minions with <5k health in groups (e.g. secret tunnel). Everyone hits with blizzard, meteor, tempest, etc first round and you can often kill. If not, storm is the only school that can do strong attack all second round without waiting for 4 pips (or ice if they get dark pip).

2) cheating bosses that don't let you blade stack or are spamming shields / negative charms. Sometimes many small hits more feasible strategy than one big hit.

3) Very versatile for team PvP where opponents don't generally let you blade stack or you need quick kills or clean ups.

No one is arguing tempest is best for all purposes, but it is certainly a useful spell, especially at low pips for reasons outlined above (extra efficiency after adding epic on)
Some people actually do argue Tempest is best for all purposes, namely most of the people who leave dungeons because of me not having Tempest. Now I will go over the scenarios you say where Tempest are useful in.

2 & 3) I already acknowledged Tempest is useful for abolishing shields. I am not arguing that Tempest is never useful.

1) Whenever I cast Tempest at low pips it does like 400 damage, and I have +80% Storm damage from gear. It will even do low damage when I enchant it. Tempest simply cannot kill in one hit unless you build up pips and stack. You would have to use it multiple times, and using Storm Lord would be much more efficient especially considering by the time you get him you'll probably have decent power pip chance.

Also, if you read my posts closer I address more than one scenario.

Explorer
Oct 01, 2011
71
Fable Finder on May 28, 2018 wrote:
You see the first usage you listed falls under the category of finishing enemies off, which is something Tempest is useful for. You said you used Storm Lord first then used Tempest to finish them off. As for boss fights you implied that you used it the same way, to finish enemies off. ("Just survived your 9 pip sirens? why put in a thunder snake when you could simply have a tempest")

Also, you have Thunder Snake in your deck?

I include Tempest in my mob deck because I don't need a big deck or a variety of spells to kill mobs, since they are easy, so I am able to include Tempest. But I don't in my other decks because they are more specialized and due to the very limited deck space, if I included Tempest in these decks their utility would be hampered.

But if Tempest works for you go for it, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play the game. I just want to end this stigma against Storm wizards who don't use Tempest. And even if you think Tempest is a great spell, can you really deny that it's overrated if people leave dungeons just because I don't use the spell?
Ah I made my point a bit convoluted and missed answering you original issue. My point was simply that a tempest can be used as a hit in ALL situations and while I will say the primary use for it is clean up, if I happen to not draw a bigger hit or I have bugs but my Shadow pips are hiding it often will do the same job . It may not be the best hit but often it will get the job done if it is all I have.

Hey now don't hate on my thunder snake, I have killed Malistaire with it before

As far as tempest being overrated, I would say its overused (man am I sick of seeing it while questing) I have never seen someone complain if I am in a dungeon and simply don't have a hit available or if I ran out of hits or something. I simply say "dang my hits are hiding :/" and most people understand.
The only way I can see the situation that happened(s?) to you is if there is somewhat of a misunderstanding or circumstances unknown to you like them having a really bad experience with another player and all it takes is one little thing not to line up with what they want. everyone gets frustrated at some point.

On the topic of limited deck size, you seem pretty happy with how you play but if you are looking for advice on how to make it more efficient I'm happy to provide an opinion.
EG
If you are doing fights that take AGES like Darkmoor, halving your deck size and simply putting in 1 or 2(or more if you want) reshuffle tc can make it so that you can have a smaller deck (thus draw more efficiently and discard more freely) but still have access to more cards should the battle run longer than expected.
Plus being able to offer others a reshuffle when they run out is a great way to get people enjoying dungeon runs with you

Explorer
Jan 12, 2013
63
Fable Finder on May 29, 2018 wrote:
Actually, you misread my post. Your math is wrong.

Let's say you have 4 regular pips, meaning your Tempest will do 320 base damage. When you enchant Tempest with Epic, it does not add the "300" onto the damage per pip, it adds it onto the total amount of damage the Tempest will do. So say you have 4 pips, and you enchant a Tempest. The game will in a way calculate how much Tempest would do without the enchant (320), then assuming it's Epic, add on 300 damage. So, a 4 pip Tempest with Epic and no other damage boosts would do 620 damage.

This is supported by what happens when you enchant Tempest. When you enchant Tempest with Epic, it will not say "380 damage per pip", it will say "80 damage per pip + 300". It's an important distinction.

To be continued...
Please re read my posts carefully. I’m not saying your maths is wrong – it is exactly the same as mine. If you take your 620 and multiply it by 4 (100% damage boost and critical like I said to get approximate realistic numbers) you get 2480 - the figure I gave. No one in this thread has suggested tempest does 380 per pip for anything other than a one pip tempest - that is just your misinterpretation. My point is that adding epic onto a 1 pip tempest (80 + 300 = 380) gives it a 375% boost, whereas adding it onto a 4 pip tempest (320 + 300 = 620) is only a 94% boost. Tempest is most efficient when cast at low pips – but your initial comparison only considered tempest as a big pip attack spell. 2 small tempests can do more damage than one big tempest or lord because of the extra epic.

As for your tempest only doing 400 damage – something is wrong there. Even a one pip tempest with 80% attack boost should do 380 * 1.8 = 684 damage– but this would be a weak storm wiz. Even my ice has 89% attack boost and 80% critical on its attack gear, and storm is much stronger. Most max level schools in secret tunnel / Halfang Bristlecrown etc can hit for 1000+ first round or 2000 if they critical, and they usually do critical if they have attack gear on. Add this over 4 wizards and you are looking at 6-8000 damage first round – much more efficient than waiting for 7 pips to lord. If I was farming with a storm who was trying to lord instead of tempest I would be frustrated too because they would be making battles last longer than they need too.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Victoria FireHeart on May 28, 2018 wrote:
When I responded there was literally only the first post showing. I can now see the second post plus subsequent posts including the one quoted.

There seems to be 3 different yet linked issues:
1. Teams leaving because you don't have Temp
2. 60 card decks being 'extremely constrained'
3. The pros and cons of Temp V Storm Lord/Sirens

1. The only way your team would know you do not carry Temp would be if there has been a moment in battle where Temp would have been useful and you told them you don't carry it. If there was no moment it would have been useful they wouldn't have any way of knowing you were not choosing a superior hit instead.

2. I don't know of anyone who fills a 60 card deck or struggles because it is 'extremely constrained'. The biggest deck I use is for solo battles where no-one else is affected or even knows whether I am being efficient but I don't need 60 cards. For Mobs and Teams we don't need to carry everything because our team will have things covered for us if we trust them to

I suspect (forgive me if I am wrong) that the real issue here is an over-filled deck that leads to inefficiency which causes frustration in the team resulting in them leaving...which naturally leads to you feeling frustrated and rejected (exactly how any of us would feel btw) which leads to number 3; wanting to justify the exclusion of Temp in the over-filled deck.

If this is the case then the problem we should perhaps be looking at solving is negative reactions from teams that causes upset. The cause of this is inefficiency due to the over-filled deck. We can make suggestions to help you reduce your deck so you are more efficient, more confident and more likely to have positive team interactions if you would like us to

If you're up for that just let us know what spells you have in your team deck, the pet/item cards you have and the TC you carry then we can work with you by suggesting some ways we'd change it up that work for us and might be great for you too
1. Actually, we all go into the battle and they assume I have Tempest. Then they ask me to spam Tempest, or use Tempest even when there's no good reason to. When they hear the news, some of them leave.

2. Without the Astral and Shadow schools, 60 would be decent. But with those schools, it's not. Kingsisle used to increase deck size every world, they should understand this. I only use a small percentage of my astral and shadow spells because of small decks, so sometimes I wonder why did I train in so many only to use so little of them? I could add less of each card but that makes things less flexible. I can't X out cards as much, and stuff like that.

Note: Since you stopped using numbers after this I will just pretend each paragraph after this has a number.

3. Well, I wouldn't consider my deck over-filled, because there aren't any spells in there that I never use. I usually use them all over the course of a few battles. However, not enough deck space is part of the issue, and the deck being larger could potentially help (depending on how much larger). Nevertheless, my opinion on Tempest is not solely based on this. After I got Storm Lord, I eventually stopped using Tempest because I didn't find it useful.

4. First you should define efficiency. Depending on who you are, what school you are, etc..., you might define efficiency differently. So before we see if I am inefficient, we should know what type of efficiency you speak of first.

Hero
Nov 22, 2015
798
Victoria FireHeart on May 28, 2018 wrote:
When I responded there was literally only the first post showing. I can now see the second post plus subsequent posts including the one quoted.

There seems to be 3 different yet linked issues:
1. Teams leaving because you don't have Temp
2. 60 card decks being 'extremely constrained'
3. The pros and cons of Temp V Storm Lord/Sirens

1. The only way your team would know you do not carry Temp would be if there has been a moment in battle where Temp would have been useful and you told them you don't carry it. If there was no moment it would have been useful they wouldn't have any way of knowing you were not choosing a superior hit instead.

2. I don't know of anyone who fills a 60 card deck or struggles because it is 'extremely constrained'. The biggest deck I use is for solo battles where no-one else is affected or even knows whether I am being efficient but I don't need 60 cards. For Mobs and Teams we don't need to carry everything because our team will have things covered for us if we trust them to

I suspect (forgive me if I am wrong) that the real issue here is an over-filled deck that leads to inefficiency which causes frustration in the team resulting in them leaving...which naturally leads to you feeling frustrated and rejected (exactly how any of us would feel btw) which leads to number 3; wanting to justify the exclusion of Temp in the over-filled deck.

If this is the case then the problem we should perhaps be looking at solving is negative reactions from teams that causes upset. The cause of this is inefficiency due to the over-filled deck. We can make suggestions to help you reduce your deck so you are more efficient, more confident and more likely to have positive team interactions if you would like us to

If you're up for that just let us know what spells you have in your team deck, the pet/item cards you have and the TC you carry then we can work with you by suggesting some ways we'd change it up that work for us and might be great for you too
Also, sorry for the late response but the first 2 times I attempted responding to you my computer crashed and I put it off.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
Fable Finder on May 31, 2018 wrote:
1. Actually, we all go into the battle and they assume I have Tempest. Then they ask me to spam Tempest, or use Tempest even when there's no good reason to. When they hear the news, some of them leave.

2. Without the Astral and Shadow schools, 60 would be decent. But with those schools, it's not. Kingsisle used to increase deck size every world, they should understand this. I only use a small percentage of my astral and shadow spells because of small decks, so sometimes I wonder why did I train in so many only to use so little of them? I could add less of each card but that makes things less flexible. I can't X out cards as much, and stuff like that.

Note: Since you stopped using numbers after this I will just pretend each paragraph after this has a number.

3. Well, I wouldn't consider my deck over-filled, because there aren't any spells in there that I never use. I usually use them all over the course of a few battles. However, not enough deck space is part of the issue, and the deck being larger could potentially help (depending on how much larger). Nevertheless, my opinion on Tempest is not solely based on this. After I got Storm Lord, I eventually stopped using Tempest because I didn't find it useful.

4. First you should define efficiency. Depending on who you are, what school you are, etc..., you might define efficiency differently. So before we see if I am inefficient, we should know what type of efficiency you speak of first.
I'm not sure how I can respond with anything that might be useful or interesting to you because I still have no clue what spells you have filling a 60 card deck for team battles.

My notion of efficiency for a storm is killing as quickly as possible.

My perspective was from a max level storm player (since that is most similar to your character).

Explorer
Jan 12, 2013
63
Victoria FireHeart on Jun 1, 2018 wrote:
I'm not sure how I can respond with anything that might be useful or interesting to you because I still have no clue what spells you have filling a 60 card deck for team battles.

My notion of efficiency for a storm is killing as quickly as possible.

My perspective was from a max level storm player (since that is most similar to your character).
I'm the same. I rarely fill a 60 card deck unless I am soloing bosses. If you have too many cards in deck, the ones you want most hide from you.

If I am farming in a team I only have about 8-10 cards in deck. ~3-4 epic, ~3-4 hits including 4 pip and some 1-2 pip cleanup hits, and a wand strike. <5k health and the team should just spam meteor, tempest, blizzard, leaf storm, sand storm, frog, deer knight, morganthe etc for quick kill. I will sub in 7 pip hits for 4 pip hits if health is above 10k or so, and use blades, but still only ~10 cards in deck, and still have the 1-4 pip hits for cleanup as well.

If you save up for lord and it fails to kill, what do you do if you don't have tempest or 1-2 pip hits? Be forced to save up 7 pips again?

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1112
This is what I think about Tempest: It's useful for a cleanup spell. It doesn't matter to me if it's overpowered or not. I rarely cast it for the purpose to have a few extra pips just in cast I need to heal myself a couple of times in between time allowing me to have pips leftover to cast Storm Lord or Siren for a kill. I don't analyze spells by tier or dpp compare to others. To me it's the same as questing my boss's doings and checking his work to see if he's doing it right and it's fair which is a good way to get fire. I just sit back, relax and enjoy the game and use the spells I have. I play: Sloan StormCatcher lvl 125, Seth StormStalker lvl 125, Tanner StormRider lvl 114. Those you read this post and if i'm on your friends list, all I want is PLEASE don't tel me what spells to cast and when to cast specifically Tempest. Just because I play my Storm does not mean I wil cast that spell. We all have our own strategy.

1