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Schools losing their meaning?

2
AuthorMessage
Delver
Jul 21, 2009
224
Heather824 wrote:
I'm sorry but if you cant kill storm in one shot with around 2200 to 2500 health then you may need to rethink your strategy. I play storm and balance. In pvp I don't heal or plan to because If I don't kill first I usually die in a one shot. So storm using rebirth is no big deal. I've used it twice and I'm level 70 and have a amulet and it was in pve. Only time is really is useful to storm in my opinion and most of the time we kill before we even need to heal. So if storm is using rebirth in pvp then they probably need to rethink their strategy too... lol

AstroStorm wrote:
Shiningfantasia wrote:
Trying to explain myself here, along on some 'other' topics, is so taxing, I don't know how else to explain myself than I already did. I agree with the OP, that is all I will say.

I will say this again. This has nothing to do with criticals, blocks, power boost, resist, power pips, and whatever else anyone can think of.

If anyone were to simply think about what the OP was saying, they would understand where he was coming from, whether they agreed or not. I agree with him, and others don't. I'll leave it at that.


Thank you for not including any stat factors, this post was all about spells. Seriously is it really ok for a storm to be using rebirth? I bet everyone loves to see that.


100 percent right Heather there is no big deal with storm using rebirth , Healing TC's have been around in game from the start so i don't see there big deal with it. Maybe they need to find something else to do in game other then pvp like maybe farm bosses , Craft things. Make a other wizard ?

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
watsupdog111 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Shiningfantasia wrote:
OP, I would assume, as well as me, were not talking about being able to match storm's power, or anyone's power.

I am not even sure where the heck people managed to pull that from.

GOOD GRIEF!

Anyway. Life's specialty is Life spells. Sure, there are some life spells right now that only the Life school can naturally cast. But the fact that anyone cast pick up those cards if they happened to obtain them and fire them off as cheaply as a Life wizard, then what is so special about the Life wizard?

And yes, mastery amulets CAUSED this whole ruckus, or the majority of it. Darthjt, you say our perception is the reason why we think this and that about the whole sub-- oh crap, I replied to Darthjt. Better stop it right here while I am ahead.


So, you think anyone can cast life spells as well as life can, just because of a life mastery amulet?

How often does life critical heal? 1/3 or more often? Is a critical heal not double the normal heal?

Now, how often does any other school critical heal? 1/10 if they even have a chance to critical heal.

Sorry, but life can heal better than any other possible school... Where has life lost their identity or what makes them special?
Who cares about critical!, people that have wintertusk rings and athames that make satyr heal 1500! healing boosts matter as well. There is no need for critical as long as you have healing income and outcome.


Who cares about critical? The whole point of this post, is that people are saying any school can heal as well as Life can.

While a 1500 satyr is nice, since all schools can train Satyr, does it compare to Life's 3000? No, sorry, but 3000 is a better heal than 1500.

Sorry, but life is still, and always will be, the best healer in the game. You cant prove otherwise.

Delver
Aug 12, 2009
260
I agree with the OP and will take it a step further. I would like KI to remove the secondary core school spells entirely.

What I see is the dilution of the schools. Storm with a life mastery amulet no longer NEEDS a Life wizard and vice versa. Wizard101 is losing the aspects that make it a MMO. You can group up if you want, but you don’t need to. And that is the crux.

Unfortunately, the removal of secondary spells will never happen because it is too hard to find another wizard with the same quest, at the same server, at the same time. KI’s solution is to waterdown the schools so that they can more easily solo. It worked.


Devin Darksong – lvl 62 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong – lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong – lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong – lvl 60 Myth
Dolan Darksong – lvl 60 Ice


Champion
Feb 03, 2012
406
darthjt wrote:
watsupdog111 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Shiningfantasia wrote:
OP, I would assume, as well as me, were not talking about being able to match storm's power, or anyone's power.

I am not even sure where the heck people managed to pull that from.

GOOD GRIEF!

Anyway. Life's specialty is Life spells. Sure, there are some life spells right now that only the Life school can naturally cast. But the fact that anyone cast pick up those cards if they happened to obtain them and fire them off as cheaply as a Life wizard, then what is so special about the Life wizard?

And yes, mastery amulets CAUSED this whole ruckus, or the majority of it. Darthjt, you say our perception is the reason why we think this and that about the whole sub-- oh crap, I replied to Darthjt. Better stop it right here while I am ahead.


So, you think anyone can cast life spells as well as life can, just because of a life mastery amulet?

How often does life critical heal? 1/3 or more often? Is a critical heal not double the normal heal?

Now, how often does any other school critical heal? 1/10 if they even have a chance to critical heal.

Sorry, but life can heal better than any other possible school... Where has life lost their identity or what makes them special?
Who cares about critical!, people that have wintertusk rings and athames that make satyr heal 1500! healing boosts matter as well. There is no need for critical as long as you have healing income and outcome.


Who cares about critical? The whole point of this post, is that people are saying any school can heal as well as Life can.

While a 1500 satyr is nice, since all schools can train Satyr, does it compare to Life's 3000? No, sorry, but 3000 is a better heal than 1500.

Sorry, but life is still, and always will be, the best healer in the game. You cant prove otherwise.


Again i restate my title, it should be spells not meaning, specialty, stats, or critical.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
I give up, some people just can't grasp the obvious, no matter what shape or form you put it.

1+1 will always = 2

No matter how you try and make your arguement, 1 + 0 will never = 2

How is that a hard equation?

Champion
Feb 03, 2012
406
darthjt wrote:
I give up, some people just can't grasp the obvious, no matter what shape or form you put it.

1+1 will always = 2

No matter how you try and make your arguement, 1 + 0 will never = 2

How is that a hard equation?


What point is this equation representing?

Defender
May 29, 2011
134
I just wish myth got a minion for there utility spell...really bummed me out.

Anyway, there are training points you know, its not always treasure cards. I dont really think schools are losing there meaning, at least not anything to be concerned about.

I think each school should get a diverse spell for once though, like a spell that would only really be most useful to that school.

Like each school gets 1 spell for the same amount of pips that really expresses that school.

Hero
Sep 08, 2008
712
Well, some people just can't seem to grasp what the heck we really trying to talk about.

Eh? Don't try to dumb us down because you the one that thinks is the most correct one here. Or whatever you seem to be implying here.

But I am NOT giving up. :P

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
AstroStorm wrote:
darthjt wrote:
I give up, some people just can't grasp the obvious, no matter what shape or form you put it.

1+1 will always = 2

No matter how you try and make your arguement, 1 + 0 will never = 2

How is that a hard equation?


What point is this equation representing?


Well, people are not looking at the full equation when stating that schools are losing their meaning, that is the point of my simple equation.

People state that spells are offered as treasure cards, that people can train life spells, that people can get rings and athames to increase heals, etc.

Yes, this is fine and dandy, but you can do the exact same thing for every school, not just life.

However, when you look at the full equation, School, pips, gear, critical, resistance, health, critical block, damage boost, etc, nobody can take or replace the role of Any school, it is just not possible.

When you truly look at the entire picture or the whole equation and not a small fraction of the equation, it clearly shows that 1+1=2 and that no school is losing their meaning, identity, or what makes them unique.

Pretty simple, not very complicated if you ask me. But, like most people on the message boards, they use small fractions to try and justify their complaints and say they are facts, when this is false. When you look at the full equation, who else can mass triage, critical heal, has the health of life, as many heal spells as life, the life damage boosts of life, the resistance life has with waterworks gear, etc? Nobody can do it like life can, nobody!

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
this is not happening.

My storm can heal himself but always welcomes a life wizard by his side when questing.

My life wizard can deliver decent damage but nowhere near like my storm can.

My ice wizard can do both decently but never reached the healing prowess of the life wizard nor the teeth that bite chunks of damage on an enemy like my storm can. But only he can stand one attack after another because of his defense and life points.

Mastery amulets gives flavor to a schools strength and gives ease in doing so but still one school cannot cast the strongest spells of another with it. My Life can throw a nasty Lord Nightshade wearing a death mastery amulet but can only do so much compared to a pure Death wiz.

Nothing is lost i can still see clearly each schools strengths and weaknesses

Ronan Lionhand - Archmage Storm
Fiona Stardust - Archmage Life
Jose Winterbane - 72 Ice

Defender
Feb 23, 2010
163

While I don't think amulets and treasure cards have hurt many schools, I do think that it has taken away some of the importance of life wizards. For the other schools, it's still best to focus almost solely on one's own school. The exception being the acquisition of things like shields, healing spells, and traps like feint. I still believe that since the boosts gained from gear and the blades and traps that can only be learned by members of that school (yes, some blades and traps can be found in the bazaar, but the school specific ones are in very short supply) boost those spells in a way that no non-school member can. Yes, you can get gear that boosts two schools, but you do so at the cost of reduced boosts in both schools. So, the best policy is to stick with your own school's attack spells and master the strategies that make the best use of them.

There is one exception to this rule, however. Life school. What's the difference? Simple, healing boosts aren't a part of hats, robes, and shoes. Well, there is some now, but it's a rather small boost in the best gear. You can find nice boosts in the rings and athames (especially some of the crafted ones), but anyone can use those. In other words, the healing spells that make life magic so important are the one major kind of spell that has no (or very little) life school gear boost. Life wizards get attack boosts like everyone else. So, there's no natural superiority when it comes to healing aside from the fact that you can do it for half the cost with power pips...only that's not the case if a wizard from another school has a life mastery amulet. Oh, and I'm sorry, but critical healing is not a sufficient argument against the initial complaint. As someone who has a life wizard now progressing through Avalon (decked out in decent gear), I can tell you that while critical heals aren't rare, they don't approach a 1 out of 3 rate. Additionally, if you take a look at your wand, you'll notice that the critical boost there is universal. The same is true of some gear, and there is other gear that boosts two schools (although at a somewhat lesser rate). So, while healing spells won't likely critical as often for a non-life wizard, they will get critical heals. How often depends mostly on the gear they wear. Besides, slap a morganthine ring and (if your willing to give up the possible attack boost) a comparable athame, and your healing boost will be big enough that it won't really matter if you get a critical heal.

So, while the other schools aren't really affected all that much by the addition of mastery amulets, the same is definitely not true of the life school. Hopefully not too many people use them. To this point, the biggest benefit of being a life wizard is that pretty much everyone is more than willing to let them join their group...assuming there's room. If everyone is sporting a life mastery amulet, however, life wizards could find themselves left out in the cold. Think about it. Why bring along a life wizard if you can bring along a storm wizard who can heal almost as well as a life wizard? You get the ability to unleash some serious damage, while also having the ability to deal out some serious health if the need arises. I'm not some life wizard complaining that I can't join a group. I currently have wizards in five different schools. Three of them in Avalon and two in Zafaria. As for my life wizard, I normally solo with him, and I've never had any problem finding partners when I need them. So, I'm not complaining because I'm having problems. I simply think that if this gets to be too wide spread of an issue that the usefulness of life wizards will lessen. That's unfortunate for those life wizards who have adapted their playing style to maximize their effectiveness as a group healer.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
705
Shiningfantasia wrote:
Well, some people just can't seem to grasp what the heck we really trying to talk about.

Eh? Don't try to dumb us down because you the one that thinks is the most correct one here. Or whatever you seem to be implying here.

But I am NOT giving up. :P


LOL, the original argument is one of aesthetics, and the literal-minded have tried to force it into a mathematical formula. Art and math generally don't mix in conversation, nor do the human characteristics that go with each type of mindedness. Hence the griefing here in this post. It's a shame, isn't it?

I don't care about the math.

I do care that the School of Theurgy has been particularly degraded by the influx of previously rare or unavailable spells: Rebirth, Regenerate, Dryad, etc., into the spellbooks of non-Theurgists.

I do care that non-Theurgists are able to use spells that I, Iridian Shadowweaver, spent time and effort to EARN from arduous quests, efforts I made out of dedication to my school of magic. Spell quests are meant to reinforce the roles all schools of magic play in the larger story line of the Great Spiral. They are special.

I do not agree that the ability to BUY a spell, amulet, etc. gives a person the right to use those spells. This is an ETHICAL and AESTHETIC idea; wealth does not equate effort. As I interpret it through my own personal set of filters, that's the crux of the problem set forth in the OP's observation. I think this problem comes down to entitlement versus effort.

I am frustrated by the disrespectful and belittling tone present in some of the respondents' posts here. It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable. It it really necessary to make a competition out of a conversation, an observation, a statement of aesthetic and ethical value?

GOOD GRIEF!

Warmest Regards,

Iridian Shadowweaver, Transcended Theurgist

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
stanklepoot wrote:

While I don't think amulets and treasure cards have hurt many schools, I do think that it has taken away some of the importance of life wizards. For the other schools, it's still best to focus almost solely on one's own school. The exception being the acquisition of things like shields, healing spells, and traps like feint. I still believe that since the boosts gained from gear and the blades and traps that can only be learned by members of that school (yes, some blades and traps can be found in the bazaar, but the school specific ones are in very short supply) boost those spells in a way that no non-school member can.


First off, all school blades can be gotten very easily as treasure cards, by simply gardening Honey Sickle Seeds. Not a very short supply and quite easily get hundreds of each school, with very little effort and in a very short period of time. Also, pets have school blade cards, there is a life blade card, an ice blade card, storm blade card, fire blade card, balance blade card, there are also may cast school blade talents. Not to mention dragonblade pets. So, it is quite easy for any school to sufficiently boost for any other school. Also, you can get just about any attack from any other school and use crafted gear for the same power and critical rating, with the loss of resistance only.

Yes, you can get gear that boosts two schools, but you do so at the cost of reduced boosts in both schools.

I will state again, the crafted gear that boosts 2 schools, do not lose power or critical boosts, that gear only loses resistance value.

So, the best policy is to stick with your own school's attack spells and master the strategies that make the best use of them.

I do agree, it is easier to keep health, resistance, damage boost, critical, block and other boosts from waterworks gear and be efficient in your own school, than it is to have dual school gear. However, the option is out there.

There is one exception to this rule, however. Life school. What's the difference? Simple, healing boosts aren't a part of hats, robes, and shoes. Well, there is some now, but it's a rather small boost in the best gear.


Actually, I have seen boots with a high amount of incoming/outgoing heal boosts, but as for Waterworks gear, it is only incoming heal boost.

You can find nice boosts in the rings and athames (especially some of the crafted ones), but anyone can use those. In other words, the healing spells that make life magic so important are the one major kind of spell that has no (or very little) life school gear boost. Life wizards get attack boosts like everyone else. So, there's no natural superiority when it comes to healing aside from the fact that you can do it for half the cost with power pips...only that's not the case if a wizard from another school has a life mastery amulet. Oh, and I'm sorry, but critical healing is not a sufficient argument against the initial complaint.

It's not? Why? Because it does not support your claim? Because you can't argue the fact that Life has over 120 critical rating and can critical heal at least 1/3 of the time, if not more. While no other school has that option without giving up resistance. This is your objection to omit such a fact?

As someone who has a life wizard now progressing through Avalon (decked out in decent gear), I can tell you that while critical heals aren't rare, they don't approach a 1 out of 3 rate.

Well, pet heals are not included. We are talking about the Wizard actually casting the spells.

Additionally, if you take a look at your wand, you'll notice that the critical boost there is universal.

Ah yes, the possible 42 universal critical points from a wand, yes! Add that to life's already high critical point value. Hmm, so you are going to add this value to other schools and not to the life wizard?

The same is true of some gear, and there is other gear that boosts two schools (although at a somewhat lesser rate). So, while healing spells won't likely critical as often for a non-life wizard, they will get critical heals.

Ah yes, but at what expense? Does life not have high health? Does life not have high resistance? Does life not have almost 100% power pip chance? Does life not have high critical rate? While every school will have to sacrifice a lot to get what Life is naturally given. How is it, everyone misses this point?

How often depends mostly on the gear they wear. Besides, slap a morganthine ring and (if your willing to give up the possible attack boost) a comparable athame, and your healing boost will be big enough that it won't really matter if you get a critical heal.

Ah yes, the stellar signet and cosmic kris! Yes, that will lose your wizard critical block and damage boosts. However, you can use guiding light, brilliant light, so that maybe criticals might not be needed, but how many rounds are you going to use to possibly get what life has?

Also, there are new spells that life has and Life does not have to even bother with treasure cards, it has a plethora of these spells at it's beck and call. Without spending tons of gold or a huge amount of time farming to get rare treasure card drops.


So, while the other schools aren't really affected all that much by the addition of mastery amulets, the same is definitely not true of the life school. Hopefully not too many people use them. To this point, the biggest benefit of being a life wizard is that pretty much everyone is more than willing to let them join their group...assuming there's room. If everyone is sporting a life mastery amulet, however, life wizards could find themselves left out in the cold. Think about it. Why bring along a life wizard if you can bring along a storm wizard who can heal almost as well as a life wizard? You get the ability to unleash some serious damage, while also having the ability to deal out some serious health if the need arises. I'm not some life wizard complaining that I can't join a group. I currently have wizards in five different schools. Three of them in Avalon and two in Zafaria. As for my life wizard, I normally solo with him, and I've never had any problem finding partners when I need them. So, I'm not complaining because I'm having problems. I simply think that if this gets to be too wide spread of an issue that the usefulness of life wizards will lessen. That's unfortunate for those life wizards who have adapted their playing style to maximize their effectiveness as a group healer.


Ah yes, and the other Huge factor that people here on these posts are omitting, is the fact that a life wizard, is free to use any mastery amulet that it so desires. It can use myth mastery for shatter, earthquake, medusa. It can use storm mastery amulet for tempest, levy, or triton. It can use Balance mastery amulet for Chimera, Judgment, helping hands, availing hands. Life is entirely free to use whatever amulet it so desires, while every other school must wear a life mastery amulet to heal as life does. Which requires a huge purchase or tons of farming in order to get that super rare drop. Yeah, what exactly was the complaint again and how is it so unfair to life?

Hero
Sep 08, 2008
712
I just had an enjoyable 5 minutes of trying to find out from whom the GOOD GRIEF originated from. Lol.

Heather! :]

I see what you mean Heather, I am sorry if I seemed too oblivious to notice your reply the very first time. I understand where you are coming from.

Survivor
Feb 28, 2009
45
Did you know that there is a special spell for each school that only students of that school can get??? i.e. for myth it is basilisk. No one else besides a school's students can get those spells. As for the mastery amulets, I don't own one but I think they're convenient. And as for the regular amulets...I think they're pretty useful. I am a lvl 44 wizard and I like my absorb shield thank you very much. The point is, I don't think the schools are losing their meaning at all. The items are there just to help you with your secondary and tertiary schools. Well, I hope this helps!

Sabrina Goldendust
lvl 44 conjurer

2