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Overpowered schools

1
AuthorMessage
Delver
Aug 10, 2010
213
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Different schools different playstyles each with thier own strength.

As for powers of schools it's not only dmg and you are completly off specially when it comes to ice.

Pve doesn't really matter as it's so easy anyways that any school can do anything in the game no problem.

As for pvp Ice and fire are currently and utterly dominating pvp very closely followed by myth.

Survivor
May 19, 2010
43
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched


Your right, the numbers dont lie.

af6at wrote:

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24


I'm not saying that your method is wrong but the way the schools are designed is for a purpose, not to be torn asunder by people with nothing better to do than disect a family game to numbers to which most people either dont care or the few that dont understand why anyone would bother wasting there time.

af6at wrote:

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


This is the only section to which I have an issue on. Based on your assessment of the schools that have spells that have an average of 100+ per pip, you gave life a 0. I would give life 6 based on the fact that you are not including that healing is still a spell and it follows under the criteria of the section as there is no criteria other than average 100+ per pip.
You also mentioned that Ice is the most underpowered school, to which i have to strongly disagree with. You fail to take into account all the utility spells the Ice has as well as combining there attack spells with blades, traps, second schools, etc.

If this sounds like I'm pouncing on you, I'm not. I'm just sick and tired of all those people that come up with pointless posts about how overpowered storm is or how underpowered life and ice are, etc. No one really cares, its a family game and lets just leave it at that. Cause the more I go on this the worse it will get and then it wont get posted. :P

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
Phoenix2891 wrote:
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched


Your right, the numbers dont lie.

af6at wrote:

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24


I'm not saying that your method is wrong but the way the schools are designed is for a purpose, not to be torn asunder by people with nothing better to do than disect a family game to numbers to which most people either dont care or the few that dont understand why anyone would bother wasting there time.

af6at wrote:

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


This is the only section to which I have an issue on. Based on your assessment of the schools that have spells that have an average of 100+ per pip, you gave life a 0. I would give life 6 based on the fact that you are not including that healing is still a spell and it follows under the criteria of the section as there is no criteria other than average 100+ per pip.
You also mentioned that Ice is the most underpowered school, to which i have to strongly disagree with. You fail to take into account all the utility spells the Ice has as well as combining there attack spells with blades, traps, second schools, etc.

If this sounds like I'm pouncing on you, I'm not. I'm just sick and tired of all those people that come up with pointless posts about how overpowered storm is or how underpowered life and ice are, etc. No one really cares, its a family game and lets just leave it at that. Cause the more I go on this the worse it will get and then it wont get posted. :P


You're completely right, but I think you did pounce on him to be honest.

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1706
I think that you should adjust this for the blades/traps available to each school. Some have a +40% blade, others less, and this does affect things.

When I play my storm character, I burn through mana just blading and tossing spells before I get killed, on the other hand, my death characters I stack up and hit hard once (or if necessary to heal).

Heck, you might even through in the health issue, and determine things based on player base health also...

But, as an informal observation, having a whole bunch of characters over several accounts, the classes are different (otherwise why have differences???) but, and it is a big but, the classes play pretty much the same as far as 'power level'.

Defender
May 17, 2009
144
Dude, you forgot to factor in this fact:

All the weaker schools have much more health and ice has a ton of much better resist and shields. They also have the best level 58 spell and storm doesn't have any DoT spells, and they changed useless bolt.

Mastermind
Sep 11, 2010
369
School accuracy has a huge hand on balancing the spells - sure, a Storm might be able to take out the entire field with one spell, but by the time they manage to avoid fizzling, another person has managed to bring down the monsters with their own spells.

As has been said before, blades and traps have different powers - the Ice blade, for instance, gives +40% to damage, whereas the Fire blade only gives +35%. But you also have to take into consideration the bonusses given by gear.

Storm gear generally offers a lot of accuracy, but it's not common to see high amounts of bonus damage on them. In reverse, Life gear has huge amounts of bonus damage while only adding little accuracy (if any).

Once you hit the very high levels, where gear is almost more important than what spells you use, you'll find that many schools come out even when it comes to damage.

In the end, we're not so different after all.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
260
I have Life, Death and Storm wizards. I can do serious damage with any of them. Last night did close to 3000 damage with Forest Lord. I used Life Blade, Spirit Blade and Gargantum. My friends were amazed how much damage was done.

Numbers don't lie but, they also don't tell the whole story. While Storm appears numerically to have a huge advantage, it also has a huge disadvantage called fizzle rate. My Storm is a lesson in patience. I fizzle, oh how I fizzle.

Megan

Survivor
Apr 05, 2010
49
The numbers don't lie. I did all this break down on a spreadsheet a long time ago. Now let me tell you something you totally missed. You have to take a long hard look at the gear each school has access to. Right now Ice has ABSOLUTELY the BEST gear for the Arena. Their level 58 gear gives huge health and resist bonus with decent critical and block ratings. No other set of gear comes close to doing all this. Every other wizard has to mix and match to get mediocre stats (at best). Ice having a good minion, DoT's, AoE's, and a cheap damage boosting bubble means that it is exceedingly well equipped to dominate the arena, which it is currently doing. Your numbers don't lie, but your conclusion doesn't take into account the most valuable variables.

Survivor
Mar 21, 2009
28
im a storm wizard and ur wrong about storms accuracy. storm probably has the worst accuracy of all. my spells fizzle all the time. storm isnt over powered. it has its weak points to.

-Fallon Thundercatcher ;)
Level 24, Storm Wizard

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
I would place storm rather low on the list in terms of pvp cause with all the shields and resistances and storms low health storm gets killed easier than storm kills anyone else.

Survivor
Sep 20, 2009
16
sure, numbers don't lie, but you can't really compare averages or means just by looking at them. I'm sure that if you would perform a student's t-test or an anova using your averages, there probably wouldn't be any significant difference between them, even between your highest and lowest averages.

Explorer
Mar 03, 2009
63

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice
wha-wha-wha-what??!?!?!? snow angel hits hard about 600 per turn plus like 350 on first hit with blade elemental blade, bubble, attack, plus resist ice is really hard to kill, seasnake's conpliants(sp) are off the charts in pvp fourm and here

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
398
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)


Numbers can lie. But only if applied improperly.

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

Lo and behold... they are.

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

The "Problem with the Problem" alarm just went off. You're forgetting that there is only one School with Damage as it's shtick: Storm. Life Heals, Ice Shields, Myth plays Minions, Death messes with Healing (don't believe that "Drains" are the point. Doom and Gloom and Sacrifice indicate otherwise), etc.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!


Having already proved your method incorrect, I will now settle for telling you that the difference between Death and Storm in your data is 35.4, not 35.

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Do you think that could POSSIBLY be due to the fact that Life's shtick is Healing and surviving, not Attacks?

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24


If the original data is flawed, anything you draw from it will be also.

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0


You conveniently forget two things:

1: NOT ALL SCHOOLS FOCUS ON ATTACK!!!!!
2: DoT Spells cannot count, as they take multiple rounds to deal all their Damage.

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95,

Actually, I calculated this once, using every normal Attack Spell to prove an unrelated point. Average Damage is 99.62.

when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


*Sigh* Already refuted.

Defender
Jul 21, 2010
109
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice
wow this has helped me understand the schools a lot more

Delver
Oct 08, 2010
255
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


I aggree to how ice does too low powered spells even though I am not one I have encountered some ice players. And they say life is weak even when it's not plus it can heal greatly. Maybe this is why life is targeted so much in PvP XD.

Defender
Apr 30, 2010
114
You have to take things beside power into account on this one, even power per pip. Now life can do one thing that no other school can, they can heal EVERYONE, without even hurting themselves like death has to. Now death, they can heal themselves by stealing health from others, plus they have feint, which sticks them right up there with fire and storm for maximum power. Now ice, they have so many defensive things that it drives me crazy sometimes. They don't need power, it takes so long to kill them that while your hacking at their health they can just cut you down, or maybe they could heal in the middle of the battle and leave you totally frusterated (wether you're a wizard or a bad guy) Now we have balance, do i even need to say it? They have judgement, and along with that they have shields against every school and spells that make yours or their enimes weaker.Then we have myth, myth has minions and two hit attacks that get rid of shields. Storm, sure its strong but it fizzles a lot and with a storm shield its easy to block because there are no storm damage over time spells (that i am aware of) And finally we have fire. Yes fire is strong but it fizzles a lot too. I'm not going to insult my main character's school , but we have our faults as well. Every school is way overpowered, you just have to find and master that power.

Survivor
Nov 20, 2010
9
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


Tell me what level are you exactly? Because the only people I see who point out things like this are lower levels who are having trouble getting through worlds and want to blame it on the 'weakness' of their school instead of thinking that they, just maybe, did something wrong. hmm?

Defender
Mar 09, 2009
123
Actually, all of the schools are overpowered. Please take away all of the spells that are 4 pips or more away. That will make them more even. Thank you.

(Everything in this message is sarcastic. It has only been posted because it gets very tiring listening to all of the 'its not fair, or storm is too strong', or balance needs a shield', or whatever.) Please stop.


Survivor
Jul 17, 2009
41
I'm life, so that explains in pvp why I do sooooo well with storm peoples. I feel so sorry for balance :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Explorer
Dec 15, 2009
59
maxitola2009 wrote:
Dude, you forgot to factor in this fact:

All the weaker schools have much more health and ice has a ton of much better resist and shields. They also have the best level 58 spell and storm doesn't have any DoT spells, and they changed useless bolt.


Storm does too have a "T" spell: Tempest. And some people preffer the "useless" bolt over the last one.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
260
mmaakk wrote:
Storm does too have a "T" spell: Tempest. And some people preffer the "useless" bolt over the last one.


Tempest is not a DoT (Damage over Time) spell. It only hits once and its damage is done at that time.

Megan

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
af6at wrote:
Numbers don't lie, because they don't care (I sound like Dr. House!)

The Problem here is, you are using numbers to match the outcome you want, and not all the numbers in the equation that balance everything!

What I expect to find - All schools are pretty evenly matched

That is exactly what is found, when you take everything into consideration!

My Method - Get the minimum and maximum damage for every spell, average them and divide by the number of pips needed to cast to get an average damage per pip for every school.

So, you are going to Damage*Accuracy/Pips! No, wait, you did not do that? Why not? What, you don't think accuracy plays any role in the equation?

What I found!

Storm 125.5 Damage per pip
Fire 109.9
Death 90.1
Myth 88.0
Life 86.6
Ice 85.3
Balance 85.1

These figures are all wrong, especially, since you did not factor in accuracy! What a waste of time and effort, since you decided to get the results you wanted!

What a gap! The difference between Balance and Death is 5 points, the difference between Death and Storm is 35!

There is a gap alright, but it is not in the numbers!

Every school except Life has at least one spell that averages at least 100 damage per pip.

Taking accuracy into account by multiplying the accuracy % by the damage per pip, I get

Storm 87.85
Fire 82.4
Life 77.94
Death 76.5
Balance 72.3
Myth 70.4
Ice 68.24

Now, you are doing this as an after effect? It is supposed to be Damage times Accuracy divided by pips!

Spells that average 100+ per pip

Fire 9
Storm 8
Balance 2
Death 2
Myth 1
Ice 1
Life 0

Ok, here is where you lose base on everything!

Life heals,has 40% blades, and 2 best health!
Ice has Resist all, 40% blades, and the Best health!
Death has convert 1/2 damage to life, 40% blades and good health!
Myth has dual attacks, which penetrate shields!
Fire has DOT spells
Storm has the most powerful spells but the lowest health
Balance has only 25% blades, but universal blades, a 2 nd blade, plus no shield to defend against them (except for tower)


Average damage per pip across all schools is about 95, when you take accuracy into account it's about 76 - Death is the "average" school, if any schools are overpowered, it's Fire and Storm, if any school is underpowered, it's Ice


Ice, is not underpowered, if you know how to use them and know the game! Ice is probably the most overpowered school in the game at the moment. Yet, the people that think they are so smart, always seem to FAIL, when it comes to calculations, because you don't factor in all aspects of the equation. Also, learn what is best to enhance a character, this game has so many options.

I have posted somewhere in the message boards, exactly how to make Ice Powerful, find the post and read it. Learn from it, because any and every school can be powerful, if you know what you are doing!

Squire
Apr 18, 2010
588
guess what no schools are overpowered. each school has its own special thing and if ice had more damage it would need less health. you should have also look health wize (base health) and you will see ice has the most and storm has they least so its fair

Survivor
May 03, 2010
15
Numbers don't lie, but you did since you equated raw damage to overall strength. Using your argument an invincible, 100% defense rating wizard would have been weak, because she does not dish out big damage.

You know one best way to know which schools are the best objectively?
Ask KI to look into their pvp records - and see how many wins and losses by each school, among the highest-ranked pvp players. That's the only way one can know if a school is more powerful than another. (barring absurd situations like back when chain stunning was around, of course)

1