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malistare or morganthe?!?!

2
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 16, 2013
13
That's the beauty of the game my friend. You'll never know until KI keeps releasing more and more worlds giving us more and more clues as to what Morganthe's motive is.

Explorer
Dec 19, 2010
54
Dr Von on Feb 1, 2013 wrote:
yes, but villains with purely selfish motives are (generally speaking) not very good villains, because there's nothing for the player (or reader, since i'm a writer) to relate to or identify with.

that's why, from a literary perspective, malistaire is the better villain.

1) sylvia's death:

most people have lost a loved one, be it a close friend or a family member, and can understand that kind of raw heartbreak and loneliness; if you were in the same position, wouldn't you do everything you could to being that person back, even if it came at a higher price? death is something very real that affects people every day, which makes him human in the players' eyes.

2) the culmination dialogue ("i failed you, sylvia...)

necromancers raise the dead. but even malistaire, the self-professed master of death, couldn't bring his wife back. so, just like the runner who places 2nd in a relay or worker passed over for a promotion in favour of someone less qualified, it would undoubtedly be a devastating blow to the ego. you feel weak, powerless, inferior... again, who hasn't been there?

-

if morganthe's only motive is to rewrite the spiral, good for her. but the why is missing~ players don't care about her because they can't relate to her, because there's nothing for them to relate to. no matter how supposedly "evil" a villain is, it's important to humanize them, if they are to have any sort of emotional impact on the player (or reader).

-von
writer, malistaire minion, lover of the beautiful dark.
Do you know that nothing really bad happened to her. This happens to some villians and even if it is not to bring them back some villians just get consumed with anger and hatred for almost everyone.

William Nightmancer Promethean Thaumaturge

Survivor
Dec 04, 2012
29
I totally agree Malistare had so much more plans than Morganthe. Malistare stole the Krokomican, severely hurt the emperor of Mooshoo to get the dragonspyre key, and then tried to use the Krokoomican to try and force The Dragon Titan to bring his wife back to life! As for Morganthe all she is trying to do is to destroy the spiral... Seriously! In Celestia she just is in the solarium and says this speech that makes no sense, lol. Malistares plot was just better. but morganthe has a cooler outfit and wand! She has two spiders behind her, a spidery looking outfit, her crown has a spider web vail thing, and lastly her staff!, oh my god so cool it is by far the coolest weapon in the game. But in general Malistare is better. Malistare has a cool wand too he has the staff with the dragon wings on it! Malitare is better though, in general.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3166
Mukurkur on Mar 8, 2013 wrote:
Do you know that nothing really bad happened to her. This happens to some villians and even if it is not to bring them back some villians just get consumed with anger and hatred for almost everyone.

William Nightmancer Promethean Thaumaturge
that's the problem~ we don't know.
but, by the time we find out, most of us won't care.

in the malistaire arc, we found out about sylvia when we were little noobs back in wizard city... that allowed us time to build a relationship (either love or hate) with his character and learn his motives. with morganthe, that relationship-building stage has been completely bypassed and, as far as i'm concerned, nothing could make me care about her at this point, short of quality writing (and maybe some cheese~ i like cheese).

-von/shadowsong,
promethean sorceress, literary crusader and filler of plot-holes.

Defender
Jul 21, 2010
119
Dr Von on Feb 4, 2013 wrote:
i like to think of it in context.

malistaire=severus snape
morganthe=lord voldemort or *shudder* dolores umbridge

like morganthe, voldy was selfish and power-hungry; his sole purpose for existing was to destroy the hero (harry potter, in this case) and often threw his minions under the bus in the process; umbridge was also in it for herself, and i didn't particularly care for either one, because there was nothing to connect me to them. she's like maleficent~ cookie-cutter disney villain, all the way through.

snape, and malistaire were both driven by love~ in this scenario, sylvia is lily potter, the object of his affections. love is possibly the most raw human emotion, and it's something most anyone can understand; the fact that he has feelings makes it easier to empathize with his character... i wanted to hug him, but not before i clocked him in the schnoz.

morganthe is evil, but malistaire is just misunderstood... and that's why i like him.

we'd definitely be a dream team if we paired up~ i like to look at things objectively, so i'd keep him (and his destruct-o-nomitron complex) in line, and i have more than enough hugs to go around. we'll wear matching black and green costumes, and maybe we'd raid morganthe's closet, too.... her only redeeming quality is that she has better dresses than us.

-von
literary crusader of amazing amazingness
Ok I never would have thought of the Harry Potter reference but, it fits so perfectly. I think the myth teacher is more like Snape though (maybe those are his kids...). When i read Harry Potter and heard the wind I would look behind me to check for Voldemort. When I read Percy Jackson I looked for Kronos. when I stated this game it was Malestaire. I don't feel the same way about Morganthe because she doesn't seem real or human. Back to the post, hopefully KI will clear this up for us.

P.S matching robes lol

Survivor
Feb 26, 2013
23
pyro52701 on Mar 10, 2013 wrote:
I totally agree Malistare had so much more plans than Morganthe. Malistare stole the Krokomican, severely hurt the emperor of Mooshoo to get the dragonspyre key, and then tried to use the Krokoomican to try and force The Dragon Titan to bring his wife back to life! As for Morganthe all she is trying to do is to destroy the spiral... Seriously! In Celestia she just is in the solarium and says this speech that makes no sense, lol. Malistares plot was just better. but morganthe has a cooler outfit and wand! She has two spiders behind her, a spidery looking outfit, her crown has a spider web vail thing, and lastly her staff!, oh my god so cool it is by far the coolest weapon in the game. But in general Malistare is better. Malistare has a cool wand too he has the staff with the dragon wings on it! Malitare is better though, in general.
I think his staff is modeled after the Dragon Titan.

Survivor
Feb 26, 2013
23
Dr Von on Mar 11, 2013 wrote:
that's the problem~ we don't know.
but, by the time we find out, most of us won't care.

in the malistaire arc, we found out about sylvia when we were little noobs back in wizard city... that allowed us time to build a relationship (either love or hate) with his character and learn his motives. with morganthe, that relationship-building stage has been completely bypassed and, as far as i'm concerned, nothing could make me care about her at this point, short of quality writing (and maybe some cheese~ i like cheese).

-von/shadowsong,
promethean sorceress, literary crusader and filler of plot-holes.
She was unknown. I have heard (from looking at the wiki) that there are hints about her exinstince in Dragonspyre.

Historian
Jul 18, 2010
601
I love malistaire! His story was awesome!! I loved how we tracked him down and he finally let us fight him !!! He had A REASON to destroy everything- to get his wife back.... unlike morganthe.... I'm not up to the worlds she's in yet but i wacthed videos and i now i see why people dont like her. She runs away so much!!! Isnt she supposed to be greater than malistaire...??? Hopefully in the next world we will finally fight her instead of battling her insane minions...... Btw what exactly IS she trying to do? I dont even know why shes trying to destroy whatever XD!!!!!!!!!

Survivor
Feb 15, 2010
1
I agree Malistaire was better and I think KI really messed up. I have been starting to get really bored with the game because I don't understand what i'm fighting for anymore. I'm not saying they should delete everything from Dragonspyre up and rewrite Morganthe's story or something but at least give us more of a reason to want to continue playing Wizard101. With the next world that comes out I hope to find a decent back story to the infamous spider-lady Morganthe...

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
This isn't really a fair question to ask yet. We all only know all of Malistaire. Morganthe is still a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, and slathered with egg mayonnaise. Malistaire was a good villain. Better then most villains I've seen. He had a human purpose. He didn't want to destroy the world, it was just in the way of his revival of Sylvia. We could relate to that.

Morganthe, so far, seems fueled by ambition and ambition alone. Her gimmick is her Evil Prophecy, saying she will strike from the shadows to destroy all life and make it in her own image. So far, she's a cliched, textbook example of a Saturday morning cartoon villain. I could forgive this though, if it weren't for one thing in Azteca that the writers did that is utterly unforgivable.

They brought Malistaire in as a rage-fueled undead soldier of Morganthe's will. His death had meaning at The Great Spyre, it had purpose, and it was one of the best storyline endings I've seen in a game. They had a major success. Then they killed it a few years later. If they can redeem it (Morganthe merely claiming Malistaire's old body and powers, defiling his afterlife, etc etc) then fine. If not, it was a mistake.

Explorer
Dec 01, 2012
80
I like Malistare more, because he has more of a personality, and he is what the whole game is about. Marganthe is a big threat, but Malistare makes the game fun. He is the goal of the game.

Brandon SoulThief
Level 45 wizard at the time.

Survivor
Feb 03, 2009
9
I personally like Morganthe better because I feel like we get more of a back story to her if you put the pieces together.
She was raised in Dun Dara with her brother Malory and became Merle's apprentice. She saw how powerful Merle was and wanted that power for herself, so she tried to read his forbidden spells but Gamma stopped her. She fled but before going, she used the Horned Crown to finish her brother's goal of destroying Artorius's kingdom by turning the dying Artorius into the Pendragon.
She grew in power and eventually came to call the Shadow Web her home and conquered Zafaria. The people (animals?) of zafaira called out for help and the council of light answered. Together they were able to defeat her, destroy her palace, and lock her Deck of Shadows under Mirror Lake. With her home base destroyed, she fled back to the Shadow Web.
At some point she leaned the prophecy and developed her master plan and realized that to fulfill it, she first needed to learn astral magic. The celestians tried to stop her with the Storm titan, but he flooded Celestia and Morganthe had to escape.
When Celestia is rediscovered, she sees a second chance. She returns to Celestia and manages to learn Astral magic.
Next, she goes to Zafaria and begins collecting the artifacts to unlock mirror lake and "break the mirror" but first kidnapping those students and attacking the Zafarians to keep us busy long enough to get there and reclaim her deck of shadows and leave saying she will "rewrite the Spiral."
After getting the sword of kings, the only thing that can stop her, we head to Azteca and learn she is breaking into the pyramids. We spot her at one point with a box trapping spirits of ancient aztecosaurs. That's the deck of shadows, it lets her enslave souls. When you complete the history quest for azteca, you learn these ancient aztecosaurs were present during the titan war and heard Bartelby's song of creation which created the spiral.
Continued...

Survivor
Feb 03, 2009
9
continued...
She then finds a triceratops priest who can open a portal to Xibalba. he is the horn of huracan, "the horn that calls." We follow her to Xibalba and see that she is using the astral power of the comet to bind the ancient aztecosaurs, the lords of night, fully to her deck of shadows. We make it to the top of the comet and she gloats that her ritual has been finished and she has used her astral magic to ensure that Xibalba hits and destroys Azteca, i.e. "the sky will fall". Before leaving us to her servant, Malistaire the undying, she remarks that she is returning to the shadow web to build her "Celestial Choir"
At this point we have enough info to piece together her master plan. Her remarks about rewriting the spiral wasn't villain hyperbole or metaphor, she has worked from Celestia on to capture and bind the Lords of Night with her deck of shadows, destroy Azteca using astral magic so they have nothing calling them away from her back home, and force them to recreate the song of creation to let her control the spiral itself. She doesn't want to destroy the spiral, which i agree would make for a boring plot, she is making herself the most powerful being in the spiral, the progression of her ambition when she tried to read Merle's spell book. Morganthe seems simple and one-dimensional because we're giving her story in bits and pieces out of order. Together they reveal a power, greed, and malevolence greater than Malistaire could have ever dreamed of, making her a worthy foe to fight against as we become more powerful wizards.

Historian
May 06, 2009
633
Padric Dragonflame on Apr 19, 2013 wrote:
continued...
She then finds a triceratops priest who can open a portal to Xibalba. he is the horn of huracan, "the horn that calls." We follow her to Xibalba and see that she is using the astral power of the comet to bind the ancient aztecosaurs, the lords of night, fully to her deck of shadows. We make it to the top of the comet and she gloats that her ritual has been finished and she has used her astral magic to ensure that Xibalba hits and destroys Azteca, i.e. "the sky will fall". Before leaving us to her servant, Malistaire the undying, she remarks that she is returning to the shadow web to build her "Celestial Choir"
At this point we have enough info to piece together her master plan. Her remarks about rewriting the spiral wasn't villain hyperbole or metaphor, she has worked from Celestia on to capture and bind the Lords of Night with her deck of shadows, destroy Azteca using astral magic so they have nothing calling them away from her back home, and force them to recreate the song of creation to let her control the spiral itself. She doesn't want to destroy the spiral, which i agree would make for a boring plot, she is making herself the most powerful being in the spiral, the progression of her ambition when she tried to read Merle's spell book. Morganthe seems simple and one-dimensional because we're giving her story in bits and pieces out of order. Together they reveal a power, greed, and malevolence greater than Malistaire could have ever dreamed of, making her a worthy foe to fight against as we become more powerful wizards.
Oh. My. Gosh. THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who understood Morganthe's story but you told it exactly how it is. The major reason Morganthe is doing this is yes, she became corrupted from the Forbidden Book and for actually getting away with her evil scheme. What villian actually get's away with it? So she's doing all of this because she knows she can. She has the power, the will, and the determination to rewrite the Spiral. Maybe even rewrite it so the that Evil can win or that no one can get hurt. If we remember correctly, Malory died back in Avalon. She could be a little on edge or tramatic because of, just a smidge, his death. Maybe she's doing this to really to up bring her fallen family. We don't know but we have the evidence to really back her up.

Also I think we're giving Malistaire way too much credit. Malistaire is very similar to Morganthe. First off he didn't appear once in Krokotopia. Like what in the world? Then in Maleybone, he makes a breif show and then leaves again! No where to be found in Moo Shu because he already got the key. Then we don't see him until right at the end of Dragonspyre. Morganthe appeared many more times than that. It comes our eyes open for her that we're still close enough before she leaves.

Malistaire for one thing, was the first major boss of the game. Of course you're going to see more of him first. That's how the story is always written. Watch the show, Wakfu, and the major villian, Nox, has the same ambition as Malistaitre; he wants to do something no has ever done (turn back time) and bring his dead family back at the sacrifice of millions. Sound familiar? How the 2nd arc is written, KI wanted to tell a different story, in bits and pieces to see if the reader/player will catch on. Most didn't but I like that they did something different.

Lastly, Morganthe's story isn't finished yet, so how can you judge her, if we don't know the end to her chapter? We could turn her good. We could lock her away like Nerrisa from W.I.T.C.H. Heck, we could throw water on her face and she just melts (that would be hilarius). But until we the end, I don't think we should throw Morganthe under the bridge just yet.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3166
Mally is awesome.Through the first arc, he was the heart and soul of the game~ a well-fleshed-out character with very human qualities and motivations. I've taken 4 wizards past him already, and the anticipation of reaching such a turning point never gets old. As a character, he's a tough act to follow.

I agree with bionaknight about Morganthe. Her personality and motives have been so obscured, so shrouded in mystery (and a few servings of egg mayonnaise) that she failed to live up to my (perhaps impossibly-high) standards and, after Mally, just fell flat, fizzled. It feels like a bunch of unnecessary hype, all leading to a rather-anticlimactic culmination of the second arc.

I've read Morganthe fan fiction on Central that I like better than what KI threw together~ it seems that they were so desperate to one-up Mally that a power-hungry villain with no real motive seemed the next logical step. And, as glad as I am to have Mally back, I'm disappointed with the quality of writing (or lack thereof) this time around.

Back in Dragonspyre, we saved the Spiral and even though it didn't happen as planned, we reunited Mally with Sylvia... which was the whole point of the game, to begin with. I'm hoping that KI can and will redeem this new plot, but my expectations are not high at this point.

-v.

Explorer
Jul 22, 2009
82
Morgranthe is pure evil
Malistire is not all villian he just wanted to resurect his wife

Survivor
Jun 24, 2011
5
I really don't think that Morganthe is that much of a threat, but I do think that eventually when we reach level 100 we will be able to battle her and a new threat would come. I still like it how Malistaire comes back at the end of Azteca as Malistaire the undying and you get to fight him to the death with three other bosses. If your a level 79 or under, my tip is to level really fast by teleporting to the land that you go next and do the quest that the citizens have to make a quick level up and get your new spells faster when you are stuck at a certain place in a certain world. That is what I did for katzensteins lab and I went to mooshu to level up. I ended up getting my stormzilla early and kicking but with it against my foes.I am level 83 and my name is Ethan Stormwalker, and I am also a storm wizard. find me in Azteca if you need me. See you in the game!

Geographer
Mar 12, 2013
923
The whole storyline tends to break down in the second arc, and it loses the rich side quest and alternate plot lines that Krokotopia and Marleybone have.

Survivor
May 25, 2009
14
Here's is the situation. Malistaire was basically running away too. You were able to although find his lair and stop his plans. He never expected you to find him. Morganthe although is a huge major threat (SPOILER ALERT) by killing off the entire population of Azteca and destroying the world. Morganthe does her evil for the pure evil, joy and retribution of her brother, Sir Malory (who is now currently good). Morganthe was even thought by Merle Ambrose himself until gamma "stopped" her plans and Ambrose wouldn't teach her anymore. Maslistaire did it for love and wanting to bring back Slyvia by forcing the Dragon Titan Army to do so, then took over the spiral by having her by his side. Morganthe creates chaos on a much larger scale, even bringing Malistaire back from the dead as a wraith (such as how Slyvia had become). Both enemies are truely evil, but one for love and one, almost seeming juts for the heck of be a grand ruler.

2