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Level 108 Spells Complaint

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Nov 17, 2013
93
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.

Survivor
Apr 29, 2010
11
Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
14
eSnowFrost on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.
I agree with some of your ideas but here is my thoughts on those spells:

The Ice spell does need a slight buff, but 100 damage per pip is kind of over-powered. I think 90 damage per pip would work, or "85 damage per pip then -35% to the next incoming damage spell to all friends" (A.K.A. a treasure card version of legion shield).

For Balance I think it is perfect, however if there was a slight damage nerf I could see the spell effect being a Bladestorm.

For Life, I do agree it shouldn't be a DOT, but I don't see this spell as trying to be an offensive spell. I see this spell being sort of a utility spell, getting rid of shields on the enemies for the hitter or "hammer" to attack while healing a bit at the same time.

Maybe Kingsisle will buff/balance these spells, but only time will tell.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
eSnowFrost on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.
I think the life spell is fine. The ice one? I agree with your terms, here. Well stated. I havent looked into teh balance one enough to really have a view on whether or not it needs a boot XD. But i think the ice needs a change and i believe the life spell is perfectly fine

Explorer
Nov 17, 2013
93
I would like a response from Lydia Greyrose herself explaining why the Ice spell only has 85 damage per pip.
Maybe then, I will have some clarification, because honestly, I am still really frustrated.

Explorer
Jun 27, 2014
82
The ice spell isnt the worst but it would be nice if it as one poster said added a legion shield and remained at current damage. At the minimum of 6 pips its base is more or less the same as Frost Giant which has a stun. Give an additional effect or raised to 90 per pip and its perfect.
The Life spell i dont even know where to start, the main problem is life only has ONE other group attack, this spell may of served some use if life had more group spells. The overtime heal wont bring a player back from the dead which doesnt make sense if life is supposed to be healing. The overtime lacks some intital value to both hit and heal even if overtime was to remain. They could of made the heal even act like sprite swarm with an inital low heal, they could of made the hit have an inital hit of even 200 would still be somewhat useful for life, working like scald it doesnt remove shields in first round so its not clearing the way for another hitter unless they wait a round, so that argument is a moot point.The damage itself and heal are fine just not the way either is implemented.
The balance spell I actually love using on my balance I said all along even in test its fine as it is, balance has many other spells with effects it doesnt need another, the spell gives balance a way to successfully attack a group of balance mobs which my balance has been crying for ever since she was created.The damage is fine too I see no need to change it.

Delver
May 12, 2012
224
eSnowFrost on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.
Ice: Yes, maybe 90 damage per pip, not 100.
Balance & Life: I think they are perfectly fine.

If you could get a professor to explain to you all of this, you'd probably understand it. Still hoping you get one

~ Ali

Delver
May 12, 2012
224
Mythali126 on Nov 25, 2015 wrote:
Ice: Yes, maybe 90 damage per pip, not 100.
Balance & Life: I think they are perfectly fine.

If you could get a professor to explain to you all of this, you'd probably understand it. Still hoping you get one

~ Ali
Add on to that for the ice:

For example, hail hound card that is any number of pips does 120 damage on one person, so 90 damage per pip attacking all enemies is reasonable for the level 108 spell.

I felt like I needed to add that on.

~ Ali

Survivor
May 12, 2009
9
The ice spell is so bad. Please change it or give it a buff.

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
the mantle on raging bull is pretty pointless

Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
14
sharktrexer on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I agree with some of your ideas but here is my thoughts on those spells:

The Ice spell does need a slight buff, but 100 damage per pip is kind of over-powered. I think 90 damage per pip would work, or "85 damage per pip then -35% to the next incoming damage spell to all friends" (A.K.A. a treasure card version of legion shield).

For Balance I think it is perfect, however if there was a slight damage nerf I could see the spell effect being a Bladestorm.

For Life, I do agree it shouldn't be a DOT, but I don't see this spell as trying to be an offensive spell. I see this spell being sort of a utility spell, getting rid of shields on the enemies for the hitter or "hammer" to attack while healing a bit at the same time.

Maybe Kingsisle will buff/balance these spells, but only time will tell.
Adding on to what I said I think the Life spell should at least have an initial hit, like how Regenerate and Fire Elf have a small heal/damage number, then the over time does the rest.

The Balance spell is fine and doesn't need an effect. I think having it do Storm, Fire, or Ice damage is already an "effect."

Also the Ice spell still needs a buff.

Should be: "90 damage per pip then -30% to the next incoming damage spell to all friends"

I think that's reasonable, however it would be nice if the ice spell wasn't an X-Pip spell.

Squire
Jun 13, 2011
503
eSnowFrost on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.
I kinda feel that Nested Fury should've had it's damage slightly increased & have an aftereffect of a Bladestorm, only it should give out a +25% Bladestorm to all friends simultaneously.

I really like it, but it should've been a bit more stronger.

Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
1
Hey Guys,

Don't really know how to phrase this but I will try.

The ice spell is over-powered. Forget extra damage or legion shield. You complain that its only 5 extra damage but you are Ice your not Storm . Ice is the lowest damage, or at least very close to Life. You can't expect them to give you so much damage. Tempest is a spamming spell, Barrage is not.

You complain that in PVP you die before you can use it. No storm person saves up full pips to use tempest. They rely on their strength. You don't need to get full pips to do damage, you have enchants, if you have good gear you can resist and stay alive and you can get fairly high damage.

I think you are trying to compare Barrage to Tempest, which you can't. It is like comparing Frog to Meteor, they are different schools. They have different damage, different critical. It is not the same spell and it never will be. Don't pretend like its going to be. I have a life wizard, I hate life and I hate the spells, so I made a storm wizard because I prefer the storm spells to the life. If you want tempest, become storm and get it, don't hope that Barrage is going to be what you want it to be.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
170
the ice spell is to weak and should have a side effect like legion shield.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2227
eSnowFrost on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Hello,

I have kindly asked Kingsisle to change the spells, via the Test Realm message boards, Twitter, emailing them, you name it. And there's still no change. I'm very disappointed. They changed all the other spells except Ice and Balance. Here is my opinion.

Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108. It should be 100 damage per pip, and an after-effect, such as a legion shield to compensate for the lack of damage. May I also add no one is going to wait for an Ice wizard to reach max pips in PvP to attack with the spell, and spamming it is useless since it requires a shadow pip. Before we even use that spell, my team would be dead or the match is over, because for this spell to even do decent amount of damage, you'd need more pips than the other schools spells.
All the other school spells offer an after-effect except Balance and Ice. Totally unfair.

Balance: Damage is great, but this spell is still controversial, because people in PvP have such high resistance to the elemental schools. The spell should even include an after-effect of a blade to the team. Also, I am a little confused, how does this attack do damage if it attacks with elementals and not balance damage?

Life: People have asked for multiple weeks now for the attack to not be a damage over time. This is Life's second attack all spell and we are very disappointed. Please make it attack all at once.

Thank you for listening.
Ice: 85 damage per pip? Too weak. That is only +5 more damage than a regular tempest that is earned at level 28, not level 108

An argument I've made many times, which has been met with Digby's response type, "storm rules, you cant be stronger EVER, regardless of what level you get it at!!!". (S)he didnt say that specifically, but that's the general opinion

Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
14
Digby StormDust on Dec 7, 2015 wrote:
Hey Guys,

Don't really know how to phrase this but I will try.

The ice spell is over-powered. Forget extra damage or legion shield. You complain that its only 5 extra damage but you are Ice your not Storm . Ice is the lowest damage, or at least very close to Life. You can't expect them to give you so much damage. Tempest is a spamming spell, Barrage is not.

You complain that in PVP you die before you can use it. No storm person saves up full pips to use tempest. They rely on their strength. You don't need to get full pips to do damage, you have enchants, if you have good gear you can resist and stay alive and you can get fairly high damage.

I think you are trying to compare Barrage to Tempest, which you can't. It is like comparing Frog to Meteor, they are different schools. They have different damage, different critical. It is not the same spell and it never will be. Don't pretend like its going to be. I have a life wizard, I hate life and I hate the spells, so I made a storm wizard because I prefer the storm spells to the life. If you want tempest, become storm and get it, don't hope that Barrage is going to be what you want it to be.
The new Ice spell is not overpowered FOR A SHADOW ENHANCED SPELL.

I could go on about how it isn't but other posts have gone into the math of it. Search some up. Also of course we are gonna compare snowball barrage to tempest cause they are LITERALLY the same spell it terms of mechanics, so wouldn't it make sense to compare it? Yes, it would.

"Tempest is a spamming spell, Barrage is not."
If Barrage is not a spamming spell wouldn't it be stronger? This point of yours doesn't make much sense.

It isn't our fault that Kingsisle decided to give Ice a Tempest spell, and yes, Tempest and Barrage are the same spell with Barrage doing more damage than Tempest, and requiring a shadow pip. The poster of Topic did suggest a slightly overpowered suggestion to the spell, but most people aren't asking for much of a buff, or at least I'm not. I don't know what level you are but I don't think you understand the different power and balancing used for shadow enhanced spells. Your points aren't very good against the buffing of Snowball Barrage, and maybe it will never be buffed, but most Ice wizards like me will hope for a buff none the less.

P.S. A comment on what "dayerider" said: I hope you know that down the line higher pip spells from the weakest school will be stronger than the lower pip spells of the strongest school, that is just how things work.

-Alexander Silverblood

Survivor
Jan 20, 2015
1
I don't think balance is much to complain about because PvP is not everything in the game but ice is totally unfair in my oppion {sorry if spelled wrong} anyway why do so many people complain about balance I mean it has it's pros and cons but it should't be that bad right? Any one agree with me here

Survivor
Apr 25, 2010
14
I am quite happy with the spells except the life one. Sure, it's really cool because we can attack and heal at the same time but I really wish we could get something like tempest or the new ice spell that does damage per pip to all. It get tedious to save pips for forest lord over and over and the wings of fate requires you to blade up a lot for it to do some good damage.

Jason SummerSpear Level 110

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
actually, most of the spells are underpowered. don't forget the darkmoor spells are rank 11 spells and the Polaris spells are thereby rank 12. why do I say darkmoor are rank 11? look at the base damage divided by 11 and it fits. example bugs does 1120 (divided by 11 that is about 100 per pip) siren rank 9 spell is 880 (divided by 9 that is 98 per pip).

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
Shadow 343 on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I think the life spell is fine. The ice one? I agree with your terms, here. Well stated. I havent looked into teh balance one enough to really have a view on whether or not it needs a boot XD. But i think the ice needs a change and i believe the life spell is perfectly fine
not so damage should be doubled or the heal triple or quadrupled the amount.

Explorer
Dec 02, 2014
92
i think the ice spell needs a update its to weak and x level is really strong but as everyone has said its a little to weak so instead of making it power go up how about give it a affect but i don't think it should be tower blocking only because if you spam that it becomes op i thinking something like each one of your team mates get a -30 damage arena on them that last 4 rounds and each time you recast the spell it just reset the timer on the arena

i think for the life maybe make the heals do more so then it becomes more of a heal spell and the attack is just like a heal buff

for the balance one i think its perfectly fine you hit all enemy's and you can hit with storm ice or fire to me that's like having a brand new hydra expect this time you don't know what your going hit with and if you use elemental blades and your balance blades and traps it quickly becomes strong

fire is perfect

storm is a little over power like always but i think the spell is perfect

myth is perfect

death is perfect

i agree the ice need fixing the life could use a little bit of more and the balance is fine

Explorer
Dec 25, 2009
76
How much damage should barrage do?

Calculation
Average AOE attacks of Ice per pip (Based on Blizzard, Frost Giant has a stun and Angel is DOT so they don't count)
  • 250 - 290 damage for 4 pips
  • Average: 270
  • Damage per pip: ~68 damage per pip

Now Shadow Pips nearly doubles the damage based on pips. As one can see, 5 pips + 1 shadow is approximately 1000 damage (Darkmoor). This is weaker with the newer spells since for 6 pips + 1 shadow, damage is less.

But for simplicity purposes, let's say Shadow pip increases the base damage of the spell by 60% (this is a low estimate).

With that low 60% increase, the damage should be 108 damage per pip to all.

Conclusion: Buff that spell, Squall does WAY more (it is storm, but it takes 14 pips + 1 shadow to deal approximately the same damage. That's 9 pips more than Squall, given it is a Darkmoor spell, but this is nullified due to the fact that is applies an Enfeeble on ALL enemies).
  • Squall (5 pips + 1 Shadow) = 1120 damage to all and Enfeebles
  • Barrage (14 pips + 1 Shadow) = 1190 damage to all


Increase the damage or make it apply a strong effect. A legion shield to everyone? Not worth the cost and damage. Stun everyone? Yes.

Thanks for reading.

Also, Life spell is rubbish. DOTs and HOTs are supposed to do more. I propose the damage should increase to 870 damage and over 3 rounds. If people want it to be instant, then the damage will have to be lowered to about 660 damage and .

Balance spell is meh. It does decent damage but we can only use it on 4 of the 7 schools lest we risk it falling on the wrong school. Happens to me twice in a row in Mirror Lake, Nested Fury twice on the Goliath, both times Ice. Then it has to be storm on the Spiders. Sandstorm Spam is still better .

Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
14
John Hawkward on Dec 16, 2015 wrote:
How much damage should barrage do?

Calculation
Average AOE attacks of Ice per pip (Based on Blizzard, Frost Giant has a stun and Angel is DOT so they don't count)
  • 250 - 290 damage for 4 pips
  • Average: 270
  • Damage per pip: ~68 damage per pip

Now Shadow Pips nearly doubles the damage based on pips. As one can see, 5 pips + 1 shadow is approximately 1000 damage (Darkmoor). This is weaker with the newer spells since for 6 pips + 1 shadow, damage is less.

But for simplicity purposes, let's say Shadow pip increases the base damage of the spell by 60% (this is a low estimate).

With that low 60% increase, the damage should be 108 damage per pip to all.

Conclusion: Buff that spell, Squall does WAY more (it is storm, but it takes 14 pips + 1 shadow to deal approximately the same damage. That's 9 pips more than Squall, given it is a Darkmoor spell, but this is nullified due to the fact that is applies an Enfeeble on ALL enemies).
  • Squall (5 pips + 1 Shadow) = 1120 damage to all and Enfeebles
  • Barrage (14 pips + 1 Shadow) = 1190 damage to all


Increase the damage or make it apply a strong effect. A legion shield to everyone? Not worth the cost and damage. Stun everyone? Yes.

Thanks for reading.

Also, Life spell is rubbish. DOTs and HOTs are supposed to do more. I propose the damage should increase to 870 damage and over 3 rounds. If people want it to be instant, then the damage will have to be lowered to about 660 damage and .

Balance spell is meh. It does decent damage but we can only use it on 4 of the 7 schools lest we risk it falling on the wrong school. Happens to me twice in a row in Mirror Lake, Nested Fury twice on the Goliath, both times Ice. Then it has to be storm on the Spiders. Sandstorm Spam is still better .
Thank you for the calculations lol.

I strongly believe the Ice and Life spell need a decent buff for them to be good. I mean I like being able to have an attack all that does more than frost giant and isn't a DOT, but I would rather even not use up all my pips. This is especially effecting the Ice people that like to kill the minion first. With this X-Pip spell there is no point to just use all of your pips to kill that minion, might as well buff a bunch and kill the boss too, and if you're doing that, then why use any other attack spell?

Sadly I do not think the Ice spell will ever change to not be an X-Pip spell, but a buff would make it good, however I would like a different effect than another stun all. Maybe steal ward from all, or steal pip from all? Those would be cool and unique effects.