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How Avalon killed the game

2
AuthorMessage
Delver
Aug 12, 2009
261
tabby714 wrote:
So gradually the game has started to feel...lonely.


Tabby,

You have just put words to what I have been feeling lately and why I have started to really dislike soling, even though I am good at it. The game has started to feel Lonely.


Devin Darksong – lvl 80 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong – lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong – lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong – lvl 64 Myth
Dolan Darksong – lvl 60 Ice

Survivor
Mar 17, 2009
6
Well, I really feel as if the story line has been rushed, but just because it is different, doesn't mean it's bad. The point of the new utility spells is to make the game more challenging. I really do believe that all of the age groups that play the game can go through this obstacle. Avalon is a challenging world, but it is for sure not impossible. Referencing back to how you feel about PvP, I'm sorry if you feel that way, but PvP is supposed to be a challenge, in a positive way.

Hero
May 02, 2009
787
tabby714 wrote:
I thought awhile before posting anything here, but I have been thinking about the game and how it has changed for me, personally. Like a few people here, I actually loved the storyline of Avalon and all the Python/classic rock references and jokes. I am a professional medievalist who has written extensively on Arthurian literature, so that part is really fun for me. Many of the cultural references are geared toward older people who remember Python, know who the Pogues are, and all that. All good.

That said, the feel of the game has changed a lot. Animosity over PvP isn't that much of an issue for me--I tried PvP, realized it wasn't my thing, and I'm happy with that. But as I posted elsewhere, many things are not fun anymore. Crafting has become an arduous, herculean task with the intro of new, extremely elusive gardened reagents. Hatching pets, which used to be fun for me, is now very frustrating--and I have three pets that most would consider "perfect." It's helping others that is hard, owing to the weird, inscrutable probabilities at work in the hatchery. So maybe that's just me, and my frustration with the dynamics of this aspect of the game.

But the biggest change goes back to something Megan said. Avalon is not for kids. My son, who is my very favorite gaming partner, dropped out of the game after ZF. He tried to craft the tag game--no amber. He tried to craft gear for his Fire--but lost patience with all the sunstones and aether he had to get. And all this after painstakingly leveling to Legendary Artisan. I miss him as a questing buddy, and I miss having younger kids in the game (he's 11). But Avalon is too hard, requires too much gear/pet enhancement, for a kid who just likes to play casually. So gradually the game has started to feel...lonely. I know a lot of teens and young adults are running around Avalon having fun. But I think for people at either end of that age spectrum--the young, and the parents who don't have time to work endlessly on gardening, hatching, crafting, etc., because they have jobs and only play casually--it's less fun. Avalon is more for the hardcore gamer type, I guess. I am halfway through on three of my wizards, but I don't know if I have the energy, will, etc. to finish.

I still like Avalon and the story. But there is more going on in my life right now than just the game, and I don't have time to deal with how labor-intensive it's become. I guess I'd like to see a new, fun, mid-level side world at some point. About level 40-50, with some hard stuff but a lot of new fun things to do that don't require grinding or an extreme amount of good luck.

Just my two cents.

I do agree that celesita over-did it with all the defeat and collect quests. What worked for me is that I used my gm fire gear all throughout cl, and late switched it with the lv.58 cl gear. My pet was an adult card-giving pixie queen with 2% life-shot (life accuracy), and later I swapped her (luna) out for a fire serpent named queen bandit (after one hatch she has 9% spell-proof and fire-proof along with crafty and tenacious, plus she gives a fire serpent card at ancient). I also stuck with my cl gear and fire serpent pet all throughout zf and most of av, and now I have the fire crafted hat and robe, but still have the cl boots. Since I like to try things solo first, I have had to hire henchmen every now and then, with the most common one being salvus, the lv.50 life henchman (he only costs 100 crowns to hire, and focuses mostly on healing and less on attacking).

The story is acually pretty good, especially since I always try to listen to the dialouge. As for the difficulty, while it can be scaled down a bit, asking others for help can also be something to do to help get you through a tough fight.

I do like to pvp, but I do it for fun, not to be competitive (though I am a bit of a competitive person), and issuses such as puppet teams could be worked on.

I think as long as we try to look at the good stuff and not so much the bad, then the game can be pretty enjoyable even with the increase in difficulty.


Survivor
Jan 02, 2010
42
gtafreak101 wrote:
Ice's resist. Over 80% to Fire and Storm. Unbelieveable. Not even the 10% blade can help with that. Ridculous. Now I know they are a weak school, but with high health and resist, they are almost like Life. Immortal.


i agree with this; in fact i addressed this issue on message boards and provided proof from central of a screenshot by a member of ice's insane resist to these 2 schools; btw, ice:weak? hah, look at mammoth! its pretty strong one hit attck and with stun for such spell. it is what 900 in damage without enchantment. thats great! i am not sure if ki will do anything about this for now, i mean look at mana burn, its not even fixed yet since prfessor greyrose's last message about it a month ago. but i understand, they may be busy even with planning changes to pvp since thats what someone posted on central from professor greyrose a few days ago, so i guess i should allow them sometime more. but i wouldnt quit the game after what i have had of memories with it, especially that it reminds me of my favorite game golden sun; same system almost you can say, summons features, all that is like the game i wait for years and years to eventually come on again on the ds system or hopefully soon 3ds. nontheless, the only problem i see in this is ki kinda takes more time to fix things than they should. with a team of employees, matters shouldnt really take that long, but idk, maybe they are preparing another world, rank10 spells, hopefully taking central spell ideas into consideration? but its still a fun game while it lasts...

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
711
Moribund wrote:
tabby714 wrote:
So gradually the game has started to feel...lonely.


Tabby,

You have just put words to what I have been feeling lately and why I have started to really dislike soling, even though I am good at it. The game has started to feel Lonely.


Devin Darksong – lvl 80 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong – lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong – lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong – lvl 64 Myth
Dolan Darksong – lvl 60 Ice


Oh, this makes me sad

My experience is the opposite, most of the time. I almost always have one or another very good friend with whom to quest. I am very fortunate to have a handful of solid "real" friends in the Spiral, people with whom I have made extensions IRL, who I consider as valuable as any face-to-face friend. I find this aspect of Wizard101 to be the most powerful draw and motivation for me to play.

Professor Greyrose, will the new forum system allow for personal messaging? If so, this could facilitate greater opportunity for wizards to connect, meet up in-game, share friend codes, and generally enjoy the social aspect of the Spiral. Is it possible to set messaging privileges based on chat level in-game/age restrictions? I am certain that filtering of language is possible in good discussion forum platforms. Please, please, please?

No one should feel lonely in the Great Spiral.

Say "hi" if you see me in Avalon. Iridian Shadowweaver (life) and Scarlet Ravensong (fire) are having a ball there! Iridian travels with Destiny Spiritgiver, Scarlet is a solo artist.

Qbb

Defender
Apr 26, 2009
103
Champion
May 03, 2011
447
Tabby,

You have just put words to what I have been feeling lately and why I have started to really dislike soling, even though I am good at it. The game has started to feel Lonely.

Devin Darksong – lvl 80 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong – lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong – lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong – lvl 64 Myth
Dolan Darksong – lvl 60 Ice


Hey, I didn't know you were back in the game! I am not playing that much, as I said--just a few nights a week, an hour here and there. But I will look for you when I'm on--I am soloing pretty exclusively, also. It's not that hard, but as you said, not that fun, either. It would be nice to have help from time to time, and a bit of company. :)

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2161
mom2mykidzcrcj wrote:
goldendragon18 wrote:

If this continues, how long is it going to be before the game as a whole is no longer a fun place for players of ALL AGES.

I honestly think KI does value the family values. They gave us the tools to use just for that reason. But, in reality the voices being heard are not that of the young players but that of the adults. Many of the young players don't know exactly how to put their concerns or ideas into a really understandable train of thought in order for some of us or the KI staff to make a lot of sense out of it. We understand IRL what our children are trying to tell us, but for them to explain it here or on Central is a little difficult. The adult world has taken over the game but in the wrong direction.


Many of my adult friends quit when CL came out. The game became to much like a second job for them. The leap in difficulty threw them. The fun factor left, fun was the reason they played. They wanted the mild challenges they thought would be found in an E10+, family friendly game.

Kids and the game have been the topic of many of my posts. Adults and kids often operate on two separate plains when it comes to patience. My son quit in the Science Center. The Water Maton quest did him in. Fighting the same creatures over and over for days on end did him in. I recently did that quest again. It frustrated me but I kept on until it was over. The game changed drastically for him when CL was added, not in a good way. He wanted to play and have fun not get stuck and frustrated. He now plays in bits and pieces.

I don't see many players I can easily identify as kids in upper level worlds any more. That doesn't mean they are not there. I just don't think there are as many. They are being left behind.

I would prefer we adults and those who want challenge to make our own. We can use lesser gear and pets. I would kids to be able to play the game easily and to have fun. We tend to see things through our eyes. My daughters disabilities have taught me to see things through anothers eyes.

Megan


I have to agree with you on all of this Megan.

There does not seem to be as many kids since CL was added. What was a kids game, became an adult game with the adults making all the requests for harder bosses and dungeons.....

The younger players are getting frustrated at trying to do these quests that seem to take forever. I remember the quest with the Water Maton and was getting a little frustrated with it myself. I do have a wizard that was doing CL, but moved her to WT instead where it is more fun and less frustrating.

The frustration got worse in ZF with all of the collecting and fighting the same creatures over and over and over............. In the WC arc, we could stack several of these types of quests, now it is as someone has stated, becoming a second job. That is not my idea of fun and relaxation and I would almost bet that the young players are comparing some of the challenges to working Algebra or writing Essays for one class or another.

@Tabby714, it seems that there are a lot of players that are thinking along the same lines as you have stated so well. The biggest problem is that it there are those that are raising a louder voice and don't remember that this is supposed to be a kids game with a rating of E10+.

Even though I have managed to get 2 of my wizards into the Drum Jungle, it has been more tedious than fun. I can easily understand why there are fewer young wizards in these areas. My guess is that many of them are either creating new wizards and sticking to the WC arc, or their parents are continuing to play their kids wizards.

I am sure that many of the kids will be playing Pirate101 as soon as it is released, but not all will want to play it. There will be a lot that will want to stay on W101 but may give it up if the game keeps becoming more and more adult oriented and if that keeps happens, I doubt that I will be playing much longer.

The crafting is also becoming as you said very arduous. I have been watching the threads regarding Amber, and from what I am seeing is all but impossible. If I complete the crafting in ZF, it may be my last. Even the crafting quest for the Spirit Caller Drums isn't fun and the gear in my opinion isn't worth the effort.

Yes, I agree, the feel of the game has changed horribly. The fun and excitement is no longer there. The E10+ feel of the game is gone and is not near as appealing as it was.

And like you, I don't have the time to just sit and play with it being as intense as it is now. I can see why my grandson and nephew are also becoming discouraged.

Where is the E10+ now?

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
Sorry if I already posted, hard to keep track of busy threads. Anyway, here is my opinion.

Ice's resist has and will always be a challenge for us Diviners. But with our Spear, Infallible Aura, and Prisms, we can beat it. With Shields of our own, we can counter said Pierce Armor.

Guardian Spirit is hard to beat but not unbeatable. Doom and Gloom Treasure Cards, Life Dispels, these all will contribute to a victory. Not to mention just killing them a second time.

The Storyline changed, but it isn't confusing. It's quite simple (SPOILER):

Morganthe, an evil Sorceress, has risen again. She was a former student of Ambrose, and quite a good one. But she wants to destroy the Spiral. She recovers her Deck of Shadows in Zafaria, and in Avalon we retrieve the only weapon capable of countering it, the Sword of Kings. I have a feeling the artifact hunt will last up to the final battle. So the storyline is darker, but not bad.

(END SPOILER).
So, there is my answer.

Defender
Jul 10, 2011
187
gtafreak101 wrote:
flash33 wrote:
Ok, first off, not everything is about pvp, and not everyone does pvp either. Guardian spirit may bring someone back from 0 health, but that said player will have low pips and health as well as no charms or wards on them.

I also don't see how the game was "killed" after malistaire. Is it because the enemies became smarter and now don't make it easy for you to beat them?

How is the storyline twisted to you? Is it because of all the running around you have to do? If thats the case, then its really no different than the first chapter/malistaire arc.

For the resist, yes its gone overboard, but as you go through the game you have to expect people to get stronger, and for the resist, that's what the armor piercing is for, to help reduce the resistance.

Instead of listing a bunch of complaints, try offering solutions to what you think/feel are problems in the game. That will also help people understand your side of the situation too.


The game had less meaning after Malistare is what I am saying. After we killed him, the game just seem to stop being "good." With CL's added critical took away the only shield to balance, the tower. I mean that in both PVP and the CL bosses. Zf added pierce. There goes the resist.

I feel that CL SHOULD HAVE been a return to a "cheating" Malistare.

I know the game isn't only about PVP. But, I find it very funny that my rank is under 350 lol. If it was about PVP, I would have been gone.

Im not saying I didn't understand the story line. I know ZF was finding the students, but everything seemedt to have different meaning. I started skipping dialouge in Avalon. :?
dude i always skip dialogue not because i don't like it i just like doing the quest more

Survivor
Jul 16, 2009
2
I agree and disagree with this. Through my ice ans storm wizards i see why ice resist would bother you in my level 22 storm ive had a lot of lisses because of resist miscalculations the cheating bosses . But i duot think the game went overboard until zafaria an

Survivor
Mar 21, 2009
9
I TOTALLY agree with you. they did do a lot of things to seriously mess the game up, such as piercing rating. i'm fire, so i have a bit of resist and damage, so i see this from both sides. yes, it is annoying yet helpful, and as far as i am concerned, this was an alright idea, as long as they don't OVERPOWER any 1 element with it, like they did resist for ice.

I hope they don't take things to level 100, because by then, storm will critical on every single spell they cast, and ice will have gotton 100% resist to all elements, leaving wizards to be FORCED to rely on nothing but piercing rating, making things 100X more complicated.

Now about the story line, I also agree with you 100% on that. Morganthe is a coward and keeps fleeing every time you confront her from cl throughout zf until the end of av. Malistaire never fled from a challenge, that i could see... he either was busy corrupting parts of the spiral, or saw no real threat or need to fight. for example in the tutorial, he teleported away because 1)he was busy commanding dracons and undead on what to do and 2) he knew he could defeat you with the flick of a finger.

boss cheats. AAAHH!! WHY, ki WHY? you made things 100X more complicated then they need to be! i understand you tried to make things harder, but SERIOUSLY? Luska in waterworks is just unfair. same as the first boss fight in the helephant tower. it's rediculous! you have KILLED the game. RUINED! but, sadly, i still play and pay for it because i find it interesting and kind of, in a way, entertaining and addicting..... but what will happen now? what can they possibly go with this? i for one believe they stopped and that's why they made Pirate101 because the know they messed up on this game.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2161
Cordelephant wrote:
I TOTALLY agree with you. they did do a lot of things to seriously mess the game up, such as piercing rating. i'm fire, so i have a bit of resist and damage, so i see this from both sides. yes, it is annoying yet helpful, and as far as i am concerned, this was an alright idea, as long as they don't OVERPOWER any 1 element with it, like they did resist for ice.

I hope they don't take things to level 100, because by then, storm will critical on every single spell they cast, and ice will have gotton 100% resist to all elements, leaving wizards to be FORCED to rely on nothing but piercing rating, making things 100X more complicated.

Now about the story line, I also agree with you 100% on that. Morganthe is a coward and keeps fleeing every time you confront her from cl throughout zf until the end of av. Malistaire never fled from a challenge, that i could see... he either was busy corrupting parts of the spiral, or saw no real threat or need to fight. for example in the tutorial, he teleported away because 1)he was busy commanding dracons and undead on what to do and 2) he knew he could defeat you with the flick of a finger.

boss cheats. AAAHH!! WHY, ki WHY? you made things 100X more complicated then they need to be! i understand you tried to make things harder, but SERIOUSLY? Luska in waterworks is just unfair. same as the first boss fight in the helephant tower. it's rediculous! you have KILLED the game. RUINED! but, sadly, i still play and pay for it because i find it interesting and kind of, in a way, entertaining and addicting..... but what will happen now? what can they possibly go with this? i for one believe they stopped and that's why they made Pirate101 because the know they messed up on this game.


Actually the game is not totally messed up. All KI needs to do it scale down some of these things from and including CL through AV. It won't be the first time KI has done this so it really is not that hard for them to do.

WaterWorks is not too bad, but it gets boring after a while when you don't get what you are after. Tower of Helephant? That is a totally different story. I tried that tower a few times and finally gave it up. Only one other of my wizards has that quest, but I am not interested in trying it again.

KI has already stated they will continue to expand on W101 for which I am glad and I have seen others also state that Pirates is not their thing. KI has ather projects as well already in process. If you will visit their FB page, you will see their posts trying to fill several differet positions. They were already working on P101 when W101 was released. They have a different staff for each game. KI is also working on a side to Mooshu. A rendering was released a couple of weeks ago on this one.

This is not the end of W101. It would not make sense for a company to dump something that gave them so much.

Yes, the last 3 worlds need some tweaking. Hopefully KI will take the time to really take a look at the huge jump in the game from the viewpoint of the kids they originally created this game for.

Up through DS, the game was fun, still magical. Grizz and WT Still fun. I loved WT and really enjoyed questing there. When Cl was added, it became more of a chore from then on. No longer had the magical feel it once had. And this is what I miss most. And this is where my grandson and great nephew quit.

The hoard packs were fine for a while, but now there are too many and coming to often.

There are problems in PvP also that need to be addressed.

As long as the community keeps screaming for more, that is what KI is going to give us. The community needs to let KI fix some of the problems before any more content is added to the game.

Mastermind
Mar 16, 2010
346
You say avalon has ruined the game but it seems like all you are talking about is PVP.

Hero
Sep 08, 2008
716
I would say Avalon has ruined the game (or the fun of it), but for a completely different reason.

I don't PvP, never will, don't care for it, never will, and don't even give it a single thought. So, honestly, I could care less about people that PvP, I don't sympathize with them, nor even give a single thought about them.

That out of the way, here is MY reason why Avalon ruined the game for me.

Mobs start with 10-14 pips. Even street mobs. First thing you do is get pummeled with rank 6-10 attacks. Especially when your turn comes second, you are ... PUMMELED.

Ok ok, so you can work up resist gear, fine. But unless you pack resist gear for each and every single element, you simply will have a less enjoyable time, and not to mention that your wizard will basically not have a unique and customized outfit (so to speak) to walk around with, since you are always switching it. I now switch my outfit as much as I tweak my deck.

And honestly, I do not feel like spending time to train a pet with both resist talents just so I can have an easier time. I don't think players should have to resort to that. EVER!

I thought Celestia ruined the game too (or the fun of it).

Actually, I know I am the only one that thinks that way, please, no one has to tell me how messed up I am, or weird I am, or how I am simply not using 'proper strategy.' I heard it all before.

The new world may not have destroyed the game, but it destroyed the fun I had in this game.

Edited: spelling.

2