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How about making it fun to win again?

1
AuthorMessage
Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
Lets face it, winning is more fun than loosing.

In the early parts or the game, the first arc, there was a lot of positive reinforcement, a lot of Kudos. While mildly challenging, it was still relatively easy to win. So it was a game suited to younger players, but one that was also fun for older players to join the younger ones, because the story and the magic of it all was so delightful. But the kids enjoyed it, like my young daughter who got me to play along with her.

It took a bit of strategy, and a bit of help to win, but it did not take long drawn out battles, except for the few solo spell quests and such. But those drawn out solo battles were the exception not the rule.

Lately though, the updates to pets (lower spritely), and the worlds themselves (especially Azteca), have turned that equation on its head. Now it takes forever to win even simple street battles. Now the pets don't help like they used to. This may supposed to be "challenging," but in fact it is just tedious.

The proof is that my daughter no longer likes to quest. When she plays, which is rarely now, she mostly just decorates her houses.

And even for myself, the questing has grown too time consuming and tedious, and too lacking in rewards, to be worth it much. Equipment has not leveled with the game, crafting has become too hard and also too lacking in reward. Even when a quest is done or a goal reached, it does not feel much like a "win."

How about returning to the earlier balance of the game, where reinforcement was plentiful and winning felt like winning?

How about making winning fun again?

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2634
FinnAgainWindrider on Sep 10, 2013 wrote:
Lets face it, winning is more fun than loosing.

In the early parts or the game, the first arc, there was a lot of positive reinforcement, a lot of Kudos. While mildly challenging, it was still relatively easy to win. So it was a game suited to younger players, but one that was also fun for older players to join the younger ones, because the story and the magic of it all was so delightful. But the kids enjoyed it, like my young daughter who got me to play along with her.

It took a bit of strategy, and a bit of help to win, but it did not take long drawn out battles, except for the few solo spell quests and such. But those drawn out solo battles were the exception not the rule.

Lately though, the updates to pets (lower spritely), and the worlds themselves (especially Azteca), have turned that equation on its head. Now it takes forever to win even simple street battles. Now the pets don't help like they used to. This may supposed to be "challenging," but in fact it is just tedious.

The proof is that my daughter no longer likes to quest. When she plays, which is rarely now, she mostly just decorates her houses.

And even for myself, the questing has grown too time consuming and tedious, and too lacking in rewards, to be worth it much. Equipment has not leveled with the game, crafting has become too hard and also too lacking in reward. Even when a quest is done or a goal reached, it does not feel much like a "win."

How about returning to the earlier balance of the game, where reinforcement was plentiful and winning felt like winning?

How about making winning fun again?
Your post is exactly my thoughts on the game. The kids here quit during DS because it really wasn't as kid friendly and now even though they are older they have no interest in the game. They would of never handled Celestia. I held on to their subs in hopes they would get the interest back but they were doing the house thing mostly also so we dropped them, they sign on now and then to socialize but really are not interested in game play.

To me it seems like KI is now aiming for a different kind of player so us not so gamer types are left with no where to go really. I make and remake wizards but after a while I will tire of that. I have to just feel it's been a good run while it lasted. Proof is there are now more worlds and difficult areas where you really have to figure it out to get by then ones that are not so complicated.

I feel the family fun set just doesn't pay the bills and in order for KI to progress they needed players that are more adapt to paying to play to get though the upper worlds.

I am not sure there is a game out there that provides a middle ground for us types, lest I haven't found on yet.

Sadly challenge to some is just tedious to me so although before my yrly sub ends I may get one wizard to the end of it it's not going to be fun.

I agree on the Spritely thing, my pets are now more decoration then help, I wasted a lot of time for something to be useless now.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
Northlite on Sep 10, 2013 wrote:
Your post is exactly my thoughts on the game. The kids here quit during DS because it really wasn't as kid friendly and now even though they are older they have no interest in the game. They would of never handled Celestia. I held on to their subs in hopes they would get the interest back but they were doing the house thing mostly also so we dropped them, they sign on now and then to socialize but really are not interested in game play.

To me it seems like KI is now aiming for a different kind of player so us not so gamer types are left with no where to go really. I make and remake wizards but after a while I will tire of that. I have to just feel it's been a good run while it lasted. Proof is there are now more worlds and difficult areas where you really have to figure it out to get by then ones that are not so complicated.

I feel the family fun set just doesn't pay the bills and in order for KI to progress they needed players that are more adapt to paying to play to get though the upper worlds.

I am not sure there is a game out there that provides a middle ground for us types, lest I haven't found on yet.

Sadly challenge to some is just tedious to me so although before my yrly sub ends I may get one wizard to the end of it it's not going to be fun.

I agree on the Spritely thing, my pets are now more decoration then help, I wasted a lot of time for something to be useless now.
I hear you, but I don't agree with one statement: "the family fun set just doesn't pay the bills."

It is the family fun set that started this whole thing going! This is what made Wizard101 so fun and such a big hit so fast -- kids getting involved, and older players finding out it was fun too! That was the whole marketing campaign, ads in business magazines about parents playing with their kids and paying allowance in crowns and so forth.

There is a huge need for a middle ground of games, between little kid learning games, and full-out addicted older gamer Multiplayer Online WoW style games. Wizard101 filled that space beautifully. It grew fast, because of what it was. We have enough of the other stuff. We have enough mayhem out there, enough hard-core gamers venues. But this family fun, positive, cooperative, wide-eyed wonderful magic world that Wizard101 created is better than that, and that is why it grew so fast. It is a treasure and it can easily pay the bills -- it is in fact what made the game big in the first place. I just think that KI lost sight of that fact in the effort to raise the level of challenge and drama in the game. And they need to be reminded of what the true value in this game is, that they actually have created a game that can bring magic and fun to people of all ages. Loosing that, they drop back into all the other games on the second-hand shelf, and restrict their market to a smaller crowd that is already over-saturated with fantasy role playing games.

Just look at how crowded Wizard City is, compared to the Ghost Town that most of Azteca is. Why? Because Wizard City is fun for everyone. Azteca, on the other hand, only a game addict with too much time to kill can stand to be in for any length of time. Market to the Wizard City crowd, and you have abundance. Market to the Ghost Town, and you have to charge fewer people more and more money to pay for simple things, until nobody can afford to play anymore.

Returning to what made the game great in the beginning is in fact the bigger reward!

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2728
A couple of comments in response to posts:

1.) Spritely was never reduced in live realm. It was reduced in test realm, but received a major negative reaction and was left alone after that particular update went live (they didn't implement the change).

2.) Wizard City is naturally going to have more players since most free to play (non-membership or non-Crowns players) hang out there and socialize. There is no reason to "hang out" and socialize in Azteca, since a lot of the player base cannot access it. This is true for most MMO games. It's called the "rubberband" effect. Designers want higher levels and lower levels to interact in "common" areas. Also, the more worlds that are introduced the more the population will spread out and thin the individual world's population. This would naturally happen regardless of world difficulty. This is another reason to implement the "rubberband" effect (to bring the sparse population back to a central location).

Explorer
Apr 01, 2011
98
FinnAgainWindrider on Sep 10, 2013 wrote:
Lets face it, winning is more fun than loosing.

In the early parts or the game, the first arc, there was a lot of positive reinforcement, a lot of Kudos. While mildly challenging, it was still relatively easy to win. So it was a game suited to younger players, but one that was also fun for older players to join the younger ones, because the story and the magic of it all was so delightful. But the kids enjoyed it, like my young daughter who got me to play along with her.

It took a bit of strategy, and a bit of help to win, but it did not take long drawn out battles, except for the few solo spell quests and such. But those drawn out solo battles were the exception not the rule.

Lately though, the updates to pets (lower spritely), and the worlds themselves (especially Azteca), have turned that equation on its head. Now it takes forever to win even simple street battles. Now the pets don't help like they used to. This may supposed to be "challenging," but in fact it is just tedious.

The proof is that my daughter no longer likes to quest. When she plays, which is rarely now, she mostly just decorates her houses.

And even for myself, the questing has grown too time consuming and tedious, and too lacking in rewards, to be worth it much. Equipment has not leveled with the game, crafting has become too hard and also too lacking in reward. Even when a quest is done or a goal reached, it does not feel much like a "win."

How about returning to the earlier balance of the game, where reinforcement was plentiful and winning felt like winning?

How about making winning fun again?
I haven't been playing the game since the beginning so I don't know what it was like before. However, I do agree that it's no longer fun to quest . To me, it's more like work.

Rebecca Bright Level 90
Miranda Shadowflame Level 90
Sabrina Emeraldblossom Level 86
Victoria Roseblood Level 82
Diana Moonflower Level 79
Christina Goldenheart Level 77

Explorer
Apr 17, 2011
80
Yes for the littler kids this could get boring and extremely time consuming.
I took a year break from Azteca because of how time consuming it is.
Still even today, I play 4-10 hours and i only complete a max of 8 quests a day.
I do miss the marleybones and mooshu type world. it made me feel a spark of happiness.
oh well...
hopefully the next world is as fun as i hope!

Historian
Jul 18, 2010
602
I hope I don't quit the game when I get to these worlds ......... I love this game thinking about quitting makes me shiver

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Even as a single adult with no kids, I completely agree that the magic is gone: too much focus on PvP and hoard packs/expensive and mostly-unattainable Crowns items. A return to its family-friendly roots may be what's needed to revive the game.

I started playing Wizard101 because it was a great way to unwind after a long and tedious day on the job. But, somewhere around Celestia, it quickly turned to: "just what I need~ I'll come home from work tonight and settle in for a long night of... more work."

All of my friends, my roommate, and even my ex-boyfriend (who introduced me to this game) were big Warcraft junkies. I never liked WoW, because "it's too much work and games should be fun". But that's exactly what Azteca was, and what the game as a whole is becoming: work. I'm pressed for time as it is~ school, work, relationships... I don't have hours upon hours to devote to another full-time job.

What drew me to the game was that lighthearted, whimsical feeling~ the wonderful community, the people I've met and bonded with over the past 2 and a half years I've played... Avalon came close to recapturing that. But that feeling is gone, as are many of my friends~ most of them have either left or moved onto other games, because the hardcore set is slowly (but very surely) pushing players like me out, and KI has made their priorities very clear.

I came back for the boards~ I love chatting with all of you, being silly and writing horrible poetry that would make Mally die of horror (then revive himself and die again, because he's just that cool!). If KI can give me a reason to stick around, then I will definitely renew my subs for another run.

/my 2 cents.

Laura S.
"Dr. Mrs. Von the Undying"


Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
33
I completely agree with the formula change--none of the clothing changes are really worth any effort; the gains you get in one area are totally negated by the loss you get in something else making it no real upgrade; or, like critical gear, all upper level enemies now BLOCK criticals limitlessly, so it provides no "upper level" reward where it would be most useful; it is useful when you re-do lower levels.
I just quit trying the money (crown)-pit instance Tarsus--there is no consistency with attack strength from Cerebrus, if he has one power pip you may get a -1000 point bite or a -300 point bite; you never critical and heals are for some reason reduced strength. I tried multiple gear/card combos AND, once again, by the time Myth gets anywhere near enough power to kill ONE of the bosses--well, lets just say I would like to see the Myth wizard who can beat it with our wonderful minions, or henchmen. I would love to know its possible, and to learn how.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2634
Oran of Urz on Sep 10, 2013 wrote:
A couple of comments in response to posts:

1.) Spritely was never reduced in live realm. It was reduced in test realm, but received a major negative reaction and was left alone after that particular update went live (they didn't implement the change).

2.) Wizard City is naturally going to have more players since most free to play (non-membership or non-Crowns players) hang out there and socialize. There is no reason to "hang out" and socialize in Azteca, since a lot of the player base cannot access it. This is true for most MMO games. It's called the "rubberband" effect. Designers want higher levels and lower levels to interact in "common" areas. Also, the more worlds that are introduced the more the population will spread out and thin the individual world's population. This would naturally happen regardless of world difficulty. This is another reason to implement the "rubberband" effect (to bring the sparse population back to a central location).
Actually the update was to stop Spritely if you are at full health and it was implimented. Unfortunately some of us are not seeing Spritely being cast at all now even at low to no health, it's not longer random it's not at all. I actually liked the early spritely on my Life wizard in AZ because it broke the dispels for me but now I will just fizzle my first life spell which actually won't be much different then how it's been going anyway since both our Life wizards fizzle a lot now also, guess we need to find some accuracy gear which isn't that popular or would reduce other stats to not practical.

I agree about the Commons being mostly free play so it is not a fair area to judge who is actually playing the game.

Altho I do not have any percentages but I think from what I have seen and myself included AZ is really the straw that broke the camels back as to how far some of us can manage difficult game play. Many People took a break, quit, gave up and made new wizards, worked on crafting, pets or gardens or limped a long grabbing any help they can get just to get though it.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
Oran of Urz on Sep 10, 2013 wrote:
A couple of comments in response to posts:

1.) Spritely was never reduced in live realm. It was reduced in test realm, but received a major negative reaction and was left alone after that particular update went live (they didn't implement the change).

2.) Wizard City is naturally going to have more players since most free to play (non-membership or non-Crowns players) hang out there and socialize. There is no reason to "hang out" and socialize in Azteca, since a lot of the player base cannot access it. This is true for most MMO games. It's called the "rubberband" effect. Designers want higher levels and lower levels to interact in "common" areas. Also, the more worlds that are introduced the more the population will spread out and thin the individual world's population. This would naturally happen regardless of world difficulty. This is another reason to implement the "rubberband" effect (to bring the sparse population back to a central location).
Oran, thanks for commenting. However, a couple of responses:

1) Spritely is reduced. You no longer cast at full health, and even at low health many people, including myself, have noticed pets casting much less than they used to. Look at the pet message boards.

2) Of course Wizard City has the non-paying players. But what inspired me to pay, and every other paying player to pay, was the promise of more fun like we had in Wizard City. And even in the short time I have been a member, I have noticed a significant drop in the number of players in the other worlds as well. There are paying worlds that players go back to over and over, because they are fun and farming is worthwhile. There are other paying worlds that people generally don't go back to, because there is no real reward for returning there. For instance, I have often run into players going back to Wintertusk to farm, or returning over and over again to Waterworks. These are fun and rewarding. But I don't ever run into people hanging out in Azteca. It is just not worth it.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
TheMasterConjurer on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Yes for the littler kids this could get boring and extremely time consuming.
I took a year break from Azteca because of how time consuming it is.
Still even today, I play 4-10 hours and i only complete a max of 8 quests a day.
I do miss the marleybones and mooshu type world. it made me feel a spark of happiness.
oh well...
hopefully the next world is as fun as i hope!
thanks for this comment. You conveyed exactly what I mean: "it made me feel a spark of happiness."

This game brought a spark of happiness to me too, and to my daughter. It is a rare and wonderful thing, to be able to create a "spark of happiness."

This game has that potential, to create happiness. I would like that potential to remain in every realm we encounter, regardless of our level. "Advanced" does not have to mean "dark, time-consuming work." I am sure the people at KI are more than creative enough to keep that spark of happiness alive, in any new realm --as long as they are clear on the value of that spark!

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
Dr Von on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Even as a single adult with no kids, I completely agree that the magic is gone: too much focus on PvP and hoard packs/expensive and mostly-unattainable Crowns items. A return to its family-friendly roots may be what's needed to revive the game.

I started playing Wizard101 because it was a great way to unwind after a long and tedious day on the job. But, somewhere around Celestia, it quickly turned to: "just what I need~ I'll come home from work tonight and settle in for a long night of... more work."

All of my friends, my roommate, and even my ex-boyfriend (who introduced me to this game) were big Warcraft junkies. I never liked WoW, because "it's too much work and games should be fun". But that's exactly what Azteca was, and what the game as a whole is becoming: work. I'm pressed for time as it is~ school, work, relationships... I don't have hours upon hours to devote to another full-time job.

What drew me to the game was that lighthearted, whimsical feeling~ the wonderful community, the people I've met and bonded with over the past 2 and a half years I've played... Avalon came close to recapturing that. But that feeling is gone, as are many of my friends~ most of them have either left or moved onto other games, because the hardcore set is slowly (but very surely) pushing players like me out, and KI has made their priorities very clear.

I came back for the boards~ I love chatting with all of you, being silly and writing horrible poetry that would make Mally die of horror (then revive himself and die again, because he's just that cool!). If KI can give me a reason to stick around, then I will definitely renew my subs for another run.

/my 2 cents.

Laura S.
"Dr. Mrs. Von the Undying"

Dr. Von, thanks for coming back and chatting! You have been a great presence on all the boards for a long time. thanks for adding your "2 cents" here as well!

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2728
FinnAgainWindrider on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Oran, thanks for commenting. However, a couple of responses:

1) Spritely is reduced. You no longer cast at full health, and even at low health many people, including myself, have noticed pets casting much less than they used to. Look at the pet message boards.

2) Of course Wizard City has the non-paying players. But what inspired me to pay, and every other paying player to pay, was the promise of more fun like we had in Wizard City. And even in the short time I have been a member, I have noticed a significant drop in the number of players in the other worlds as well. There are paying worlds that players go back to over and over, because they are fun and farming is worthwhile. There are other paying worlds that people generally don't go back to, because there is no real reward for returning there. For instance, I have often run into players going back to Wintertusk to farm, or returning over and over again to Waterworks. These are fun and rewarding. But I don't ever run into people hanging out in Azteca. It is just not worth it.
In regards to paragraph one, that is not what I'm referring to. See the below link for the Spritely may cast reduction that was implemented back in 2011 on test realm, but not implemented on live.

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/halstons-laboratory/spritely-pet-not-working-or-has-been-changed-35479

What your describing as a "cast reduction" is, in my opinion, not a reduction in casts. KI changed the rules of what triggers a Spritely may cast, not the rate of which it casts.

For paragraph two, I disagree about players returning to Waterworks or Wintertusk because it was "fun". Wintertusk was frequented due to Halfang which was the best way to get gold quickly and Waterworks had to be ran over and over to get your Waterworks gear. Different players will disagree that running the same dungeon over and over as "fun". Additionally, I don't know of many players that ran dungeons or bosses multiple times in Wizard City, because it was fun either. Kraken and Lord Nightshade was the exception, but I thought players farmed that over and over not for fun, but rather for Crowns drops without paying for those Crowns items nor the membership or zones. Azteca, and many other worlds, simply do not offer a farming area, but could be argued that they are still fun.

However, and likely the intent of the thread, I do agree that the worlds are getting significantly harder and certainly becoming a job and not fun for certain players.

Squire
Mar 07, 2011
520
Unfortunately, gear is by far the weak link in this game. There is essentially a zero percent chance to get a gear drop from a regular boss that will be an upgrade to the gear you have on now. My level 90 wizards still use some parts of the waterworks gear, from 30 levels ago!

I know Aquila now has some upgrades to the waterworks gear, but from what I've heard, they are extremely hard to get. The only gear I've gotten from Aquila does not have universal resist, and this is the number one thing I require in a hat, robe, or pair of boots. I did get a decent wand in Aquila, but it has high critical with no block. I myself like to have a decent amount of block, since no matter how high my critical is, I never get one to work in PvE in Azteca.

There are some crafting upgrades to waterworks gear, but it depends on your school. My ice has crafted a couple decent pieces of gear from Avalon. And whoever said it above, I agree, the gear crafting in Azteca is too difficult for the minor upgrades they offer. I'm saving my reagents for potential gear crafting in the next world.

Like a character in Diablo likes to say, "Too much pain, not enough profit."

Explorer
Jun 15, 2009
81
i don't mind the chalenge in azteca myself, "but" ... lol, with some of these dungeons, drops rates should be tailored to this level, more for the fight, or neft to fit the drop rate, i can get 1000 gold a fight off the lvl45 drops from Loremaster, i can feed a no auction lvl 90 item to a pet for 1500? :S (minus any of the random cards or reagents that can come from it) plus all ages are hitting the level 90 areas as well, mostly the best outlook is to see, what kidd will get what drop, and how long will their parents let them be on for = solution, i am finding drops to be um, troublingly challenging, and i play before those same kids go to school, and get ready for bed

Defender
Nov 17, 2012
186
TheMasterConjurer on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Yes for the littler kids this could get boring and extremely time consuming.
I took a year break from Azteca because of how time consuming it is.
Still even today, I play 4-10 hours and i only complete a max of 8 quests a day.
I do miss the marleybones and mooshu type world. it made me feel a spark of happiness.
oh well...
hopefully the next world is as fun as i hope!
Marleybone and Mooshu did feel like much more encouraging worlds. I never eally liked Marleybone much b/c it's so dark and dirty (unlike Dragonspyre which is dark and clean). Also, the NPCs were friendlier in those worlds. They were always calling you"esteemed master" and stuff. Although that might sound like a minor aspect it significantly improved gameplay for me. I also agree with the earlier posts about the length of battles. If i were to time the, in minutes this is what i'd get

Wizard City: 1-8
Krokotopia: 4-15
Marleybone: 5-18
Mooshu: 3-22
Dragonspyre: 7-28
Celestia: 7-35

Each time the max minutes increase significantly. It seems to me that if the enemy and I are both leveling up at the same rate then the time should stay about the same.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
709
Malt22 on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Unfortunately, gear is by far the weak link in this game. There is essentially a zero percent chance to get a gear drop from a regular boss that will be an upgrade to the gear you have on now. My level 90 wizards still use some parts of the waterworks gear, from 30 levels ago!

I know Aquila now has some upgrades to the waterworks gear, but from what I've heard, they are extremely hard to get. The only gear I've gotten from Aquila does not have universal resist, and this is the number one thing I require in a hat, robe, or pair of boots. I did get a decent wand in Aquila, but it has high critical with no block. I myself like to have a decent amount of block, since no matter how high my critical is, I never get one to work in PvE in Azteca.

There are some crafting upgrades to waterworks gear, but it depends on your school. My ice has crafted a couple decent pieces of gear from Avalon. And whoever said it above, I agree, the gear crafting in Azteca is too difficult for the minor upgrades they offer. I'm saving my reagents for potential gear crafting in the next world.

Like a character in Diablo likes to say, "Too much pain, not enough profit."
Yes, I think the gear is one of the keys here. It used to be, too, that you could craft excellent gear. I made gear in Wintertusk that served me well for many levels past that. In the later realms, most of the crafting gear was not really worth it. They gave some decent bonuses, but left too many drawbacks. The only other craft vendor that I found helpful was the druid vendor in a back area of Avalon. But the Azteca crafting was just not worth the effort at all. The ingredients far too rare, the rewards far too low. As you rightly said, "Too much pain, not enough profit."

In the early realms, and especially GH/WT, crafting was fun and rewarding, as was most of the gameplay. Dungeons were a challenge but the rewards were worth the challenge. Also, items you got you could sell at the Bazaar if you did not need them. But from Celestia on, most items are No Auction, and mostly useless, except as pet food.

Bring back the rewards, I say! More profit, less pain! Make it worth it for us to get involved in the game!

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
Oran of Urz on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
In regards to paragraph one, that is not what I'm referring to. See the below link for the Spritely may cast reduction that was implemented back in 2011 on test realm, but not implemented on live.

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/halstons-laboratory/spritely-pet-not-working-or-has-been-changed-35479

What your describing as a "cast reduction" is, in my opinion, not a reduction in casts. KI changed the rules of what triggers a Spritely may cast, not the rate of which it casts.

For paragraph two, I disagree about players returning to Waterworks or Wintertusk because it was "fun". Wintertusk was frequented due to Halfang which was the best way to get gold quickly and Waterworks had to be ran over and over to get your Waterworks gear. Different players will disagree that running the same dungeon over and over as "fun". Additionally, I don't know of many players that ran dungeons or bosses multiple times in Wizard City, because it was fun either. Kraken and Lord Nightshade was the exception, but I thought players farmed that over and over not for fun, but rather for Crowns drops without paying for those Crowns items nor the membership or zones. Azteca, and many other worlds, simply do not offer a farming area, but could be argued that they are still fun.

However, and likely the intent of the thread, I do agree that the worlds are getting significantly harder and certainly becoming a job and not fun for certain players.
That topic is from 2 years ago.
The current changes in the MC Spritely did take place in live when Aquila went live. Unfortunately, what ever was done also changed some of the other MC heals as well.

On Topic:
WaterWorks and WinterTusk are still very fun to do. I still run WW and all of my wizards do WT. I have done some farming of Halfang but I don't need to farm him for items for gold. I do more farming for CP seeds than anything else. The First arc in General is and always will be fun and magical.. The changes did not come until after CL, then things started going down hill. Drops were still the best in the game in CL and the bosses were not so overpowering as to make it seem like a job.

Avalon was a bit better and a little more fun than ZF and most certainly a lot more fun than Azteca. Still too many defeat and collects. ZF and AZ, with AZ being the worst, are the most tedious and NOT fun worlds this game has ever had.

If the next world is as tedious as Az, or as un-rewarding, I don't see me pushing any more of my wizards through.. Family members no longer play and none will return to what they have seen me going through. The awesome friends I have here is the only thing that makes even the worst areas of the game tolerable. And Yes, My friends are the best.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
KKoop3 on Sep 12, 2013 wrote:
Marleybone and Mooshu did feel like much more encouraging worlds. I never eally liked Marleybone much b/c it's so dark and dirty (unlike Dragonspyre which is dark and clean). Also, the NPCs were friendlier in those worlds. They were always calling you"esteemed master" and stuff. Although that might sound like a minor aspect it significantly improved gameplay for me. I also agree with the earlier posts about the length of battles. If i were to time the, in minutes this is what i'd get

Wizard City: 1-8
Krokotopia: 4-15
Marleybone: 5-18
Mooshu: 3-22
Dragonspyre: 7-28
Celestia: 7-35

Each time the max minutes increase significantly. It seems to me that if the enemy and I are both leveling up at the same rate then the time should stay about the same.
This is reasonable~ I think KI has forgotten that players don't have 8 hours/day to devote to a single dungeon run.

Adding to your list:

Zafaria: 7-45m
Avalon: 10m-1h
Azteca: 15m-1.5h

There is no reason for a single dungeon to take 8 hours. Not only is it boring and tedious, but there's also a high chance that you won't get anything worth spending 8 hours in there for.

-

I agree with you about the earlier worlds as well. Yes, MB and DS are both "dark". But Dragonspyre is awesome because it's an empire with a rich history that is but a shadow of its former life and glory; the hallmark of any great fantasy story. And that's what it felt like, fighting Mally the first time~ you were the hero (or heroine) in a novel of epic proportions and were so emotionally-invested in the characters and the plot that you just didn't want to put the book down.

As for Marleybone, it's just dirty and sad... like the medieval times, where people showered once a year and always had some for of the plague. I have one wizard on my main account left to go through there, and I can't wait to get her out.

To quote my Furby: "Hmm, boring."
(yes, Dr. Von still has her Furby!)


Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
33
Just wondering, have any of you tried Pirates 101? A lot of the same "magic" (excuse the pun) that was present earlier in Wizard is found throughout all the levels in that game. It is great fun to play. On topic--yes, I must reluctantly agree with the posts here. I started off ready to indignantly defend KI, but the more I read, the more I had to admit that some of the uniqueness is gone from the game. That "I can't wait to play" is now "don't really feel like getting stuck without help, maybe tomorrow more people will be here." Since I started playing, there was no other game to match Wizard--believe me, I tried many, many...and more. Most of them lost the "fun" factor in a short while, no matter how easy or difficult, the "thing" that made the game attract you was no longer there. I just found myself wondering if any other developers have found it...Having done it once, I believe that KI will infuse the new worlds with that uniquely KI fun factor. That's why I'm still here.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
mythessence on Sep 26, 2013 wrote:
Just wondering, have any of you tried Pirates 101? A lot of the same "magic" (excuse the pun) that was present earlier in Wizard is found throughout all the levels in that game. It is great fun to play. On topic--yes, I must reluctantly agree with the posts here. I started off ready to indignantly defend KI, but the more I read, the more I had to admit that some of the uniqueness is gone from the game. That "I can't wait to play" is now "don't really feel like getting stuck without help, maybe tomorrow more people will be here." Since I started playing, there was no other game to match Wizard--believe me, I tried many, many...and more. Most of them lost the "fun" factor in a short while, no matter how easy or difficult, the "thing" that made the game attract you was no longer there. I just found myself wondering if any other developers have found it...Having done it once, I believe that KI will infuse the new worlds with that uniquely KI fun factor. That's why I'm still here.
To answer your initial question, yes: I was part of the beta test for Pirate and, while I liked it well enough for a while, I got bored quickly... My heart and soul will always belong to Wizards (and Mally and Sylvia and the people on these forums!).

J. Todd created something wonderful, and KI ran with it; I'll give them that. But it just seems that the focus has shifted, toward the hardcore gamers and away from the family-fun set that the game was made for.

Most of my friends have moved onto other games because of it. And Dr. Von is slowly becoming a very-lonely little wizard... That's why Mally and I get along so well; he understands me!



I hope that whatever KI has planned in the coming years helps to bring some of the magic back. I bet there's a lot of pressure, what with the other family-fun games all closing down... But KI will deliver, no doubt. I guess I'll just bide my time and see if the new content is worth sticking around for.

-v.

Survivor
Apr 20, 2012
38
TheMasterConjurer on Sep 11, 2013 wrote:
Yes for the littler kids this could get boring and extremely time consuming.
I took a year break from Azteca because of how time consuming it is.
Still even today, I play 4-10 hours and i only complete a max of 8 quests a day.
I do miss the marleybones and mooshu type world. it made me feel a spark of happiness.
oh well...
hopefully the next world is as fun as i hope!
You play 4-10 hours!! Oh my gosh that's a ton. It's not even good for your eyes! Idk thats just my opinion. I usually only play an hour. Plus 10 hours is almost half of your day! Think about how long ten hours is. How long your in school then another three hours. what if you were on the computer that whole time? Thats how long ten hours is. Just thank about that. :) Your eyes would be burning. Mine are and i have only been on for ten minutes today .

I hope this wasn't to mean or harsh :3

Nicole Blueleaf level 33,

Delver
Mar 10, 2009
236
Dr Von on Sep 15, 2013 wrote:
This is reasonable~ I think KI has forgotten that players don't have 8 hours/day to devote to a single dungeon run.

Adding to your list:

Zafaria: 7-45m
Avalon: 10m-1h
Azteca: 15m-1.5h

There is no reason for a single dungeon to take 8 hours. Not only is it boring and tedious, but there's also a high chance that you won't get anything worth spending 8 hours in there for.

-

I agree with you about the earlier worlds as well. Yes, MB and DS are both "dark". But Dragonspyre is awesome because it's an empire with a rich history that is but a shadow of its former life and glory; the hallmark of any great fantasy story. And that's what it felt like, fighting Mally the first time~ you were the hero (or heroine) in a novel of epic proportions and were so emotionally-invested in the characters and the plot that you just didn't want to put the book down.

As for Marleybone, it's just dirty and sad... like the medieval times, where people showered once a year and always had some for of the plague. I have one wizard on my main account left to go through there, and I can't wait to get her out.

To quote my Furby: "Hmm, boring."
(yes, Dr. Von still has her Furby!)

I don't like Marleybone either. It is SO annoying how easy it is to get dragged into a fight that you don't want and it seems so dark and dreary. But Pirate's Marleybone has redeemed itself. Yes it is still dark there (oh yea fighting turrets there has beautiful fireworks that are stunning) but you get to run around the houses and sewers, which are quite bright and there is lots of really pretty mosaic work in the sewers (not exactly realistic but I love it) and there are lots of NPC's running around that just to add flavor. People sweeping the cobbles or going shopping and the adorable, wide eyed puppies and kittens running around are so precious. I really love the Marleybone over there. I you want to get another flavor and view of the place I highly recommend it.
P.S. Mooshu there is stunningly beautiful. All the seasons splendor just take your breath away. Pirates has great eye candy and the puns and nods to movies, music and literature are hilarious.

Hero
Aug 23, 2009
723
I agree there is a loss of magic and fun since DS, while I've finished the game thus far, it has become grinding instead I fun. The story had grown interesting, but questing is frustrating. I remember early that I had several friends and we leveled together and it was fun; take a break from my quest help th with one or two of theirs or a dungeon, or vice versa and then back to mine or mutually quest for days. Now none of those original friends are on, citing frustration a/o after a break finding the grinding unbearable. I went from group to solo player since CL. New worlds don't bring excitement to me any more, just the knowledge of grinding, maybe a few nuggets of crafting fun and interesting beauty in world.

I'm honestly trying to think of a formula to return to the friendly fun roots while still add challenge, and the negative turn noticed I noticed had been two fold, one: pvp focus and revamping-cards and strategies that are banned, limited or added; two, multiple new systems added which complicates stats, gear, pets and strategy-which exponentially increases time to complete battles and frustration. However I have yet to find a solution that doesn't involve a massive change to how things are current setup.

1