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High level: Noob vs. Experienced vs. Pro

2
AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
Here's how I came up with these groups. When you come up with a bunch of observations, you see which ones cluster together best, since no one wants to read 100 individual observations. You have to give them a heading or they won't make sense and they'll bore people. I understand that you lose granularity when you lump things together, but gain simplicity, it's a tradeoff. But simplicity makes for good discussions, and at 22 posts as I write this, I think we're doing just fine.

So after you have grouped your observations, what do you do next? You have to give them a name, or you're right back where you started, and nothing makes sense. Naming your observations can get you into trouble, though... because, in this case, people to whom the observations apply are likely to get defensive. Let's get real: what name can you give to a group in which people carry too much, take too long, put others at risk, and in general aren't very effective players? "Noob" is actually a pretty neutral label, and pretty descriptive. It applies to a group of people who aren't using a better way to do things, and might not be aware of one. They unreflectingly "undershoot" when it comes to gameplay, not doing enough, fast enough. That's not pejorative, that's an observation.

"Experienced" and "pro" also reflect a different levels of sophistication, where people have learned to cope with the conditions in the game and have found ways to get along. Experienced players have one way to do this, pros another. Experienced players tend to "overshoot" when they play, bringing too much, hitting too big, and still not anticipating the influence of other players. Pro players understand those tendencies and pull back from them, reaching a level of efficiency that is "just right."

As I said before though, play however you choose, you are the player, and this is not a how-to guide to pro play.

Survivor
Jan 07, 2013
27
I in no way call myself a pro. However, I did come to realize the potential of having a big deck while in Aquila. My Ice wizard was battling Zeus Sky Father(?) alongside another wizard. Both of us were the minimum level needed and both of us survived. The other player died at least once, while I played the healer, hammer, and tank. I didn't even die at all. Having a big deck full of support spells comes in handy at times.

Quinn Winter, 73
Quinn Pixie, 78

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
Shadow of the Past on Jan 21, 2014 wrote:
I in no way call myself a pro. However, I did come to realize the potential of having a big deck while in Aquila. My Ice wizard was battling Zeus Sky Father(?) alongside another wizard. Both of us were the minimum level needed and both of us survived. The other player died at least once, while I played the healer, hammer, and tank. I didn't even die at all. Having a big deck full of support spells comes in handy at times.

Quinn Winter, 73
Quinn Pixie, 78
You're right, it can. And I can't call myself a pro either. I don't have the best gear, best pets, or best strategies. As far as pros go, it's impressive what some people are capable of doing, blazing through battles in a few rounds when I need a full 20-40 minutes. There are definitely people who live, eat, sleep, and breathe Wizard101...

Even so, we can still beat the big bosses in our own ways, and that's good enough.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
Lucas Rain on Jan 20, 2014 wrote:
Here's how I came up with these groups. When you come up with a bunch of observations, you see which ones cluster together best, since no one wants to read 100 individual observations. You have to give them a heading or they won't make sense and they'll bore people. I understand that you lose granularity when you lump things together, but gain simplicity, it's a tradeoff. But simplicity makes for good discussions, and at 22 posts as I write this, I think we're doing just fine.

So after you have grouped your observations, what do you do next? You have to give them a name, or you're right back where you started, and nothing makes sense. Naming your observations can get you into trouble, though... because, in this case, people to whom the observations apply are likely to get defensive. Let's get real: what name can you give to a group in which people carry too much, take too long, put others at risk, and in general aren't very effective players? "Noob" is actually a pretty neutral label, and pretty descriptive. It applies to a group of people who aren't using a better way to do things, and might not be aware of one. They unreflectingly "undershoot" when it comes to gameplay, not doing enough, fast enough. That's not pejorative, that's an observation.

"Experienced" and "pro" also reflect a different levels of sophistication, where people have learned to cope with the conditions in the game and have found ways to get along. Experienced players have one way to do this, pros another. Experienced players tend to "overshoot" when they play, bringing too much, hitting too big, and still not anticipating the influence of other players. Pro players understand those tendencies and pull back from them, reaching a level of efficiency that is "just right."

As I said before though, play however you choose, you are the player, and this is not a how-to guide to pro play.
"Noob" is actually a pretty neutral label, and pretty descriptive. It applies to a group of people who aren't using a better way to do things, and might not be aware of one. They unreflectingly "undershoot" when it comes to gameplay, not doing enough, fast enough. That's not pejorative, that's an observation.

"Newb" or "Newbie" are neutral as they mean a newcomer or inexperienced. "Noob" is used as a pejorative pretty much calling someone an idiot.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
seethe42 on Jan 21, 2014 wrote:
"Noob" is actually a pretty neutral label, and pretty descriptive. It applies to a group of people who aren't using a better way to do things, and might not be aware of one. They unreflectingly "undershoot" when it comes to gameplay, not doing enough, fast enough. That's not pejorative, that's an observation.

"Newb" or "Newbie" are neutral as they mean a newcomer or inexperienced. "Noob" is used as a pejorative pretty much calling someone an idiot.
Widely believed to be interchangeable--or else KI needs to remove "noob" from usable vocabulary.

Semantics aside, hopefully laying out my methods makes it clear I was never making an argument in favor of everyone playing like a pro. That kind of megalomania saps the fun right out of the game.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2926
seethe42 on Jan 21, 2014 wrote:
"Noob" is actually a pretty neutral label, and pretty descriptive. It applies to a group of people who aren't using a better way to do things, and might not be aware of one. They unreflectingly "undershoot" when it comes to gameplay, not doing enough, fast enough. That's not pejorative, that's an observation.

"Newb" or "Newbie" are neutral as they mean a newcomer or inexperienced. "Noob" is used as a pejorative pretty much calling someone an idiot.
Here's what I gather is the general consensus, based on what I've heard around the boards (with bits of personal observation thrown in):

Newbie: new or inexperienced player, someone who doesn't yet understand the finer points of this (or any) game, but is willing to learn and will seek out more-experienced help (other players, online guides, etc). This person often plays with a full deck and can usually be found watching other players or by sigils and asking 'please may I join' or 'how does this work'?

Noob: not necessarily a new or inexperienced player. This person often has an entitled or disrespectful attitude toward the game, its rules, and other players; rather than helping, she often expects that others will do the work for her. At the high levels, this person often plays defensively (usually unneeded/unrelated shields on self only, ie: life shields when the enemies are fire) or uses a ton of off-school treasure cards for no good reason and usually does not contribute to the outcome of the battle in any way.

Experienced: someone who has been playing the game for a while, or at least long enough to understand how most things work. This person can solo all but the most ridiculous instances; she has a solid command of the game and a handful of close friends she can rely on for those crazy cheat battles, plus she's willing to be that friend to less-experienced or ill-equipped players. Her stats are usually pretty average, with good (but not perfect) gear and pets, and chances are she has deck setup down to a science.

Hardcore: these are your professional gamers, with uber pets and all the best gear, Crowns wands and mastery amulets and (more often that not) pvp elite gear. Their attitude is often quite similar to that of the noob: entitled and disrespectful; most of them look down on and think less of other players, therefore, you won't find very many of them helping others in group situations, but you can usually spot this person in the arena. When she isn't fighting, she's probably on the sidelines showing off her awesome stuff or taunting her friend's opponent.

Not everyone fits into these groups, of course. But that's what I have observed, and is my opinion only. I hope you guys have better things to do than take offense to something that's purely speculative.

-von

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
Dr. Von, good points as usual. I tried to collapse into three groups based on actual in-game behaviors I've seen, but four descriptive groups might do just as well.
In particular, you bring up some good points about "hardcore" players. Come to think of it, there are a significant number of times when I've seen people show up to the sidelines just to announce something unhelpful, like "I'd be done with this battle by now lol." Also, there do seem to be a lot of stoic warlord types hanging out near big dungeon sigils, arena, and in the hatchery, who evidently have no desire to participate--so their presence implies either a suspiciously long AFK or a desire to show off.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
Lucas Rain on Jan 22, 2014 wrote:
Widely believed to be interchangeable--or else KI needs to remove "noob" from usable vocabulary.

Semantics aside, hopefully laying out my methods makes it clear I was never making an argument in favor of everyone playing like a pro. That kind of megalomania saps the fun right out of the game.
It's not semantics really. The terminolgy differences have been around since BBS in the 80's. The biggest difference is Newb just means new to the game or site, Noob or n00b are insulting and have nothing to do with how new or experienced a player is, but reflects on their behavior. Experienced players will generally help and mentor Newbs. Noobs on the other hand are generally annoying, self-righteous, know-it-alls who think they know everything but really don't have a clue. The words are not widely thought of as interchangeable and have had widely separate definitions for going on 4 decades now, since they were coined early in the internet.

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
776
Lucas Rain on Jan 12, 2014 wrote:
Levels 48 and over are not created equal. Over the years I've played, I see players tend to fall into 3 broad, general groups. Here's what I have observed. Feel free to add your thoughts.

Noob strategy:
  • Only use one deck, usually the one that gives the most cards
  • Pack a full deck of over 40 cards for simple mob PvE battles
  • Their favorite spell is basically whatever they learned or bought most recently
  • Uses gear that doesn't typically add much to stats (school's damage, overall resistance, or block)
  • Relies on spells like Kraken, Minotaur, and Helephant, even though AoE spells are much faster
  • Uses spells from other schools without a mastery amulet (aka waste of power pips)
  • Only shields self, heals self
  • Takes over 20 seconds to choose a card every turn, nearly every time
  • Targets anything that heals, regardless (healing spells isn't always the most dangerous thing you face in a duel circle)
  • Doesn't know about Sun enchants and enjoys using Polymorphs
  • Tends to "mess up" and activate boss cheats

Experienced strategy:

  • Might have more than one deck
  • Carries a mastery amulet of some kind
  • Carries fewer than 30 cards (but still way too many)
  • Deck includes School Blade, as well as Elemental or Spirit Blades
  • Knows or intends to learn Sun enchants
  • Favorite spells are Rank 7 or Rank 8, does not typically pack a Rank 4 despite it being faster and better
  • Tries to be the one who beats all the enemies instead of using teamwork
  • Almost never packs support spells like stuns, smoke screens, or plagues
  • Might shield and heal others, but usually won't
  • Pets often have healing talents or added resistance
  • Understands how gear adds directly to overall resistance, school damage, etc.
  • Over-reliance on matching gear sets, like Waterworks sets
  • Doesn't usually mess up on cheating bosses or puzzles

Pro strategy:

  • Has multiple decks, each tailored to a specific battle situation
  • Some decks have only small hits, some have only support cards, some have only heals (doesn't need to hit in every battle, much less be the one who beats all the enemies)
  • Most mob PvE battles are won using Rank 4 hits, since anything bigger is a waste of time
  • Usually carries fewer than 15 cards in each deck, including wand hits
  • Carries emergency cards in side deck, like heals, triage, shields, and extra blades and traps
  • Knows which player is the target of an enemy attack before it happens
  • Pets have been trained to give exactly what the player needs
  • Carries multiple sets of gear that compliment each other instead of just using one set, always
  • Knows all the puzzles, knows many different ways to beat cheating bosses
um you shouldn't have multiple decks that's screaming i can only beat you if i see your stats before i set my gear

Mastermind
May 12, 2009
346
Lucas Rain on Jan 12, 2014 wrote:
Levels 48 and over are not created equal. Over the years I've played, I see players tend to fall into 3 broad, general groups. Here's what I have observed. Feel free to add your thoughts.

Noob strategy:
  • Only use one deck, usually the one that gives the most cards
  • Pack a full deck of over 40 cards for simple mob PvE battles
  • Their favorite spell is basically whatever they learned or bought most recently
  • Uses gear that doesn't typically add much to stats (school's damage, overall resistance, or block)
  • Relies on spells like Kraken, Minotaur, and Helephant, even though AoE spells are much faster
  • Uses spells from other schools without a mastery amulet (aka waste of power pips)
  • Only shields self, heals self
  • Takes over 20 seconds to choose a card every turn, nearly every time
  • Targets anything that heals, regardless (healing spells isn't always the most dangerous thing you face in a duel circle)
  • Doesn't know about Sun enchants and enjoys using Polymorphs
  • Tends to "mess up" and activate boss cheats

Experienced strategy:

  • Might have more than one deck
  • Carries a mastery amulet of some kind
  • Carries fewer than 30 cards (but still way too many)
  • Deck includes School Blade, as well as Elemental or Spirit Blades
  • Knows or intends to learn Sun enchants
  • Favorite spells are Rank 7 or Rank 8, does not typically pack a Rank 4 despite it being faster and better
  • Tries to be the one who beats all the enemies instead of using teamwork
  • Almost never packs support spells like stuns, smoke screens, or plagues
  • Might shield and heal others, but usually won't
  • Pets often have healing talents or added resistance
  • Understands how gear adds directly to overall resistance, school damage, etc.
  • Over-reliance on matching gear sets, like Waterworks sets
  • Doesn't usually mess up on cheating bosses or puzzles

Pro strategy:

  • Has multiple decks, each tailored to a specific battle situation
  • Some decks have only small hits, some have only support cards, some have only heals (doesn't need to hit in every battle, much less be the one who beats all the enemies)
  • Most mob PvE battles are won using Rank 4 hits, since anything bigger is a waste of time
  • Usually carries fewer than 15 cards in each deck, including wand hits
  • Carries emergency cards in side deck, like heals, triage, shields, and extra blades and traps
  • Knows which player is the target of an enemy attack before it happens
  • Pets have been trained to give exactly what the player needs
  • Carries multiple sets of gear that compliment each other instead of just using one set, always
  • Knows all the puzzles, knows many different ways to beat cheating bosses
I'd like to say I'm quite an experienced player, since I've been playing since 2009 (of course, with some long breaks here and there). I would classify myself as your standards for "Pro", but I lack two concepts in there.
For one, Waterworks gear suits me rather well, giving me a fair amount of attack and defense (which is also boosted by my pet). I generally don't change my gear, because it requires me to change some of my playing style, in which I have grown so accustom to.
Second "error" I'd like to bring up is that I am a Life Wizard. Carrying around Rank 4 attacks for a mob PvE is bound to take longer. I can see for most Schools that bringing the Rank 4 hits are effective, but the Life and Death Schools cannot manage that. A quick refresher: Death Wizards gets their first AoE at level 48, while Life Wizards get their first AoE at level 58. Trust me, when I got my Forest Lord on my Theurgist, and Scarecrow on my Death, battles went by much quicker than they would when I was using Rank 4 and above spells.
Best of luck!

~Shannon Skybreaker

Explorer
Sep 17, 2008
56
I don't agree, nor do I disagree, with the original poster and/or Dr Von. I'm posting this because the spirit of the thread seems to be that of discussion rather than dictation.

For my part, I can easily see the value in the right gear (mixed and matched), a small deck and a quick win strategy. I can also gleam that the original poster is not likely to use a small deck when confronting a late game boss. So, that's fine. I use similar decks myself when fighting, for example, Lore Master or Hod, mobs for a quest, etc.

On the other hand, if I'm completely honest with myself, that strategy bothers me. Specifically, it doesn't feel like a strategy. It makes me feel like a one-hit wonder - like I have no better ideas, no complex stratagems, and no way to cope with an enemy that I am not prepared to face beforehand. That's my problem, though.

I'm happiest when I'm playing with my minion, but maybe that's a carry over from being a wizard. As a conjurer, it's important to me to use my school's specialty: minions. To do that, I had to learn how to use spells like Dimensional Shift and shatter instead of earthquake. Before Vassanji came along, I managed to use Talos in Avalon to kill myth bosses (the horror... so many prisms) without striking the boss myself. It was something I wanted to do to prove to myself that I truly understood minions. That requires a large deck, however.

The other article of "proof" that I wanted for myself was the right garden. Desparagus and White Desparagus are what you want if you're a minion oriented conjurer - just buffs and a host of minions. My favorite pack to buy is the hand of doom... I find a very strange, sort of nostalgic joy in summoning a Meowiarty minion. Fighting beside Krokopatra is something else that I am looking forward to.

Anyway, I guess I'm not an expert/pro, but I'm pretty happy. I think I really figured out how to be the conjurer that I want to be and I enjoy it immensely.

Thanks for reading, everyone.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2926
Shannon and Mythographer: both of you make some excellent points.

Shannon~

My second wizard was death and, after balance, it was hard to play him because he didn't get his scarecrow until much later, around the time he beat Malistaire~ I didn't know anything about deck setup at that point, so I definitely made things harder on myself.

By the time I got to my 4th wizard (life), I understood the game more and had a better strategy in place. Prior to level 58, mob battles were torture, so I bought a bunch of Forest Lord TC from the bazaar and stuffed them in her sideboard... I didn't stop until I got the actual spell.

Mythog~

I have a level 40-ish conjurer, and I still do use minions on occasion~ I run 2 accounts at once when I play him, so he has my Ice wizard as a questing buddy, but I still use his golem minion as cannon fodder during battles. And I love the Hand of Doom pack~ my prometheans still bring Mally out for fun, once in a while.

I tend to use the one-hit wonder strategy at the upper levels because I find mob fights quite tedious and repetitive. It ensures that I don't waste any time (which, as a high-level storm wizard, is important because your defense is garbage; therefore, you have to kill within 5 rounds max or you're a bobble-head).

-

If I were to classify myself, I'd probably be somewhere in the Experienced category: I've found a setup that's efficient for all of my wizards; I understand how most things work, though I hate crafting/gardening, despise PVP, and am quite happy with my Waterworks gear and good-but-not-perfect pet, thanks very much.

See you all in the Spiral!

-v.

95 and
92
63
42 and
30

Mastermind
Jun 27, 2013
302
Not really sure where I'd classify myself.

I'm LvL 95
I still love my WW gear
I have 2 Decks
Deck 1 - Main Deck consists of:
1 Scarecrow
1 Reshuffle
2 Death Blades
2 Spirit Blades
1 Item Death blade
2 Sharpen Blades.
1 Pet feignt

Deck 2 - Boss Deck
1 Scarecrow
2 Reshuffle
2 Death Blades
2 Spirit Blades
1 Item Death blade
2 Sharpen Blades.
2 feignts
1 Potent trap.
1 Pet feignt

I use the Sidhe Staff so I don't fizzle as often.

This is my setup since I learned Scarecrow.
Prior to my Crow, I had no idea how to build a deck, and had to depend more on my Wraith. Crow made my deck shrink from 30+ cards to this.

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
I'd guess that I'm somewhere between experienced and pro.

  • Pro: I carry around multiple gear sets. (Waterworks for when I'm helping lower levels, Crafted + Waterworks + Jade boots for regular questing and a special gear set for Storm bosses.)
  • Experienced: I have a Life mastery. (I'm often required to be healer in a group because the guy I often play with almost always refuses to pack heals. Not that I mind. We've gotten used to the other person's play styles and in PvE I'd say that we compliment each other very well.)
  • Pro: I carry a few traps or blades for my friend(s) and myself in my sideboard so that we can ensure that the enemies die.
  • Pro: I'm often able to detect which player will draw attention from the enemies.
  • Here I give no label. Card amount has to be full for my strategy to work out. This doesn't dictate how experienced I am though, as a large deck allows for more flexible gameplay for me, as I've figured out how much of each card I need to put in, and so I never have to dig long to find what I need.
  • Experienced: My pet only has Fairy or Spirely depending on which I use. I'm working on getting both those plus resist on one pet though.
  • I only carry one deck. Why use up more backpack space if the deck I have only needs a few switches? (Adding school specific shields, add more heals perhaps, take out attacks, add prisms etc.)
  • Experienced: I use a full Pip Tempest. Let me tell you, I hate the critical Storm setup. I die too easily. So I use the 'turtling' option and I set up for a full pip Tempest and savor the fact that I can actually block criticals from bosses and survive for an extended period of time.
  • Pro: Cheating bosses are no problem for me because I look up their cheats ahead of time. (And in Waterworks I've run it so many times that I don't need reminders. )

Explorer
Aug 25, 2012
66
dayerider on Jan 15, 2014 wrote:
You have some good points here, but some just left a bad taste in my mouth
lol I felt the same way

Survivor
Oct 29, 2010
2
Hey i'm a fire wizard lvl 95
i got more then one gear def/att
i have 4 decks:


1-fire minions deck2-boss deck
3-helping deck "which is blades/shields and heals"
4-a fire boss deck.


i always use meteor 4 pips.
my pet: tricky dragon :fairy/resist 15/sharp 6 "i never fizzle ^^"


2