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Helping Hands = Underpowered

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Jul 22, 2009
63
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.

Survivor
Nov 16, 2011
7
I have to agree.. I am a balance wizard and the 2 main things I took on was Balance and Death.. Now I got the helping hands finally able to heal and help others fighting with me but it is really weak for that kind of spell.. To be honest though with out the Helping hands i would never been able to save people around me choosing Balance and Death as my two schools of choice.. At the beginning of the game I did not know you pretty much had to be a Life student to safe people and once I got going thought I was going to be in trouble in the long run do to that part.. We should power up Helping Hands as it does take 3 pips to even cases on self or team mate!!

Sean SkullBlood
lvl 29 Balance

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


To me, the comparison is flawed. Sprite is a Life spell while Helping Hands is a Balance spell. Comparing the two, even though they're the same type of spell, is a bit apples and oranges in my opinion. Helping Hands is an HoT, so you have to take that into account as well since, in the end, those are ultimately stronger than spells that heal in one turn.

Squire
Apr 18, 2010
588
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


They are not 600 they are 400.

Defender
Feb 06, 2010
118
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


To me, the comparison is flawed. Sprite is a Life spell while Helping Hands is a Balance spell. Comparing the two, even though they're the same type of spell, is a bit apples and oranges in my opinion. Helping Hands is an HoT, so you have to take that into account as well since, in the end, those are ultimately stronger than spells that heal in one turn.


Well, a heal is a heal. Damage spells, however, cannot be compared.

Yes, helping hands IS an HoT, but so is Sprite.....

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
kamarynjelise wrote:
Well, a heal is a heal. Damage spells, however, cannot be compared.

Yes, helping hands IS an HoT, but so is Sprite.....


I disagree. I feel Balance and Life are two different schools; therefore, the spells are different. They might both heal, but Life's medium is effective healing while Balance's is not.

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
kamarynjelise wrote:
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


To me, the comparison is flawed. Sprite is a Life spell while Helping Hands is a Balance spell. Comparing the two, even though they're the same type of spell, is a bit apples and oranges in my opinion. Helping Hands is an HoT, so you have to take that into account as well since, in the end, those are ultimately stronger than spells that heal in one turn.


Well, a heal is a heal. Damage spells, however, cannot be compared.

Yes, helping hands IS an HoT, but so is Sprite.....


Though also remember, by the time I was in KT, on my balance, by the time I completed the Krokosphinx, I was getting powerpips like every other turn (probably my luck).
So lets compare the two:

2 Sprite vs 1 Helping Hands
HoT- 30+90 50+163
Turns takes to heal- 5 4
Heal per turn- 30, 120, 180, "", 90/ 50, 163
Worst case pips- 4 4
Training points- 4 0
Gold- 350 Crowns for TC
Also, what AkihiroHattori5 meant was, Life is the school of healing, they specialize is healing themselves and others, while balance has a little of everything. Also, they seem to have followed the same exact method when judging Helping Hands/Availing Hands, comparing it to the healing spell with same amount of pips (Helping Hands is a little less than 3 pipped Dryad, while AH is little less than Satyr). In other words, your comparing HH to the wrong spells.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2728
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


1.) Because a Balance wizard should not be able to equal nor outheal life's spells. Balance is a good in everything a little, while all the other schools are great in their "specialty." That's comparable to asking how come Ra damages less for a higher pip cost than Storm Lord. Ra, like Helping Hands, is specifically designed to not "out do" their counterparts in other schools.

2.) You are given Availing Hands, because Helping Hands is so weak.

Mastermind
Mar 28, 2009
327
Explorer
Jul 22, 2009
63
DavidStronghunter1... wrote:
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.


They are not 600 they are 400.

No, 2 sprite spells add up to 600 HoT.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
There are a few things to consider here which are "big picture" items regarding balance heals:

First, only looking at life spells such as sprite and fairy... you're comparing 2 pips of sprite at 600 to only 2 pips of fairy at 420. Even in regard to life only spells, sprite typically outheals everything per pip. The caveat is that to get 600, you'd have to cast it two rounds in a row and waste a total of 5 rounds for the benefit. By Krokotopia (where you get helping hands), you'd also be likely to have to sacrifice power pips, thereby making 2 sprites likely to consume 3 pips (at least) for the 600 points of heal.

In light of this fact, a more apt comparison is 2 sprites at 3 pips (power pip and pip) vs. 3 pip helping hands. Therefore, 5 total rounds for 600 points of heal vs. 4 rounds for 540. Now further consider heal boosting spells such as guiding light. At level 10, you can get a troll ear pendant which gives you 2 +40% guiding light cards. Boosting sprite with that spell would take it to 420 total heal, but boosting hands would take it to 756. Would you want two sprites for 840, or 2 hands for 1512?

Finally, at the very high levels where you begin to get critical, a high balance critical score not only helps your attacks, but your heals as well assuming that you use helping and availing hands. This is part of what makes balance so deadly. Life dispels don't apply to balance healing and it is the only school aside from life that is likely to benefit from a critical for both healing and attack. You should also not rule out the benefit of the heavy heal boosting gear you can get at high levels. The cosmic kris and stellar signet for instance can give you an effective heal boost of about 99% which would mean that 3 pip helping hands now heals for about 1074 vs. 2 sprites for likely 3 or 4 pips (because of power pips) for about 1192.

Bottom line, I don't think helping hands is underpowered. I hope that this has given you another perspective on the topic.

Delver
Aug 30, 2011
259
Mario2463 wrote:
The total of 3 pip helping hands is 540, while two one pips sprite spells are 600. The accuracy is still the same, which makes me wonder why the balance one is weaker. I know the prime of balance isn't healing but helping hands is just too weak.

Helping hands aren't made for healing a decent amount, so it's not something useful to put in your deck.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
With WW gear, Cosmic Kris and Ring of the Hunting Wolf (at 25% in and out), Availing Hands will critical at about 330 for the cast, and 1100+ per tick. I didn't use HoT until after Availing was available, but I imagine Helping would be about 300 points less per tick.

Even pet sprite without a critical does 220+ per tick with the above gear.

Trust me, helping/availing spells are very powerful, considering how much healing you can squeeze out of two yellow pips, which you discover after working with them for a time. Don't discount them based on raw analytics, because in practice they work better than on paper.

Explorer
Mar 27, 2011
58
The advantages of balance healings are other than the raw HP recovered.

First of all, we are a school that tends to get more PP than any other (well, we are supposed to, anyway).
If you use availing hands (4 pips) it costs you practically the same as helping hands (that is, two power pips, but since we get almost exclusively those.. let's say two pips).
If you use a satyr, and have no life amulet, it will wipe out a double amount of pips. And a fairy or pixie will cost the same amount but heal less.
I don't take the example of sprite for the simple reason that it makes you waste two rounds instead of one for healing. So that is another advantage for your balance heals.

And last, but not least, when fighting against dispelers, they will use life dispels to stop you from healing... but these being balance heals, they are not affected by that dispel (and they do take into account any eventual heal boosts you may have).


Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
The reason why helping hands is UP is because availing hands outclasses it, not because the heal is too weak.

The perfect fix is lowering the cost to 2 pips and lower the heal to 30 + 390. Now it acts as an infection clearer at higher levels, and 420 is a great heal for lower levels.

Explorer
Jul 22, 2009
63
Solstice64 wrote:
The reason why helping hands is UP is because availing hands outclasses it, not because the heal is too weak.

The perfect fix is lowering the cost to 2 pips and lower the heal to 30 + 390. Now it acts as an infection clearer at higher levels, and 420 is a great heal for lower levels.

That would be a good idea.