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Family Friendly? Really?

AuthorMessage
Defender
Feb 15, 2009
137
In some ways, I, too, agree that Kingsisle could improve Wizard101. The number of times I've gone through the Waterworks in order to get the good gear is 19, and that number continues to increase as I attempt to get the Frostbit Boots. The chances of getting a sophisticated mount, pet, spell, card, gear (etc.) is indeed very slim and very time- and money- consuming. And there has been more than one complaint thread about the grueling process of hatching and raising pets.

However, you have to remember that Kingsisle isn't FORCING you to buy the mounts, the spells, or anything except for a subscription (or crowns payment); it's not required to have an epic pet with amazing stats to complete the game; and the Hoards offer a CHANCE to get the sophisticated stuff. In fact, the announcements typically have the word 'chance' in bold, such as the now-running Ninja Lore Pack.

The exact words of the Ninja Lore Pack on the Ravenwood News: "The Ninja Lore pack is here, and it's the first pack that allows your Wizard a chance to gain entirely new spells..."

Another thing: Crown items are items that enhance your game experience. They are not required to have in order to get through the storyline of the game. As for the Ninja pig spell, that isn't required to get through the game, either. Yes, I have a level 70 Myth Wizard, and the only time I ever used the Ninja Pig spell was when I got the treasure cards in Mooshu or at the Bazaar. If you really need a spell like that in order to win a battle, my suggestion is to have a friend or two to help you or to reorganize your deck so that the spells such as Orthrus and Medusa work to your advantage.

Another complaint was about the process of raising pets. If you don't want to dedicate that much time of your life raising your pet, then DON'T. I know many people who have never even considered the minigames but have managed to get through the game. If you want a fancy pet, you're going to have to work for it.

And the Waterworks gear? Well, while there is a slim chance of getting the gear, there is still a chance of getting it. On my Ice character, it has taken sooo many tries to get the Frostbit gear. But on my myth character, it took me two tries to get everything. It all depends on how much patience you have. Sometimes you get lucky; sometimes you don't.

Speaking of chances, that adresses the 'gambling' issue. It doesn't seem fair to call a game designed for kids as 'gambling'. In order to gamble, somebody has to put in money and has to recieve a chance of getting something back. Who plays the game? Typically, kids. Who gives the kids the money to the kids to buy it? Typically, the adults. So unless your kids are really paying for it all themselves, it's not gambling at all; the parents don't have to give the kids money if they don't want to.


One more thing: I know many, many parents who play with their children on Wizard101. None of the ones I have seen have complained about the high prices or time. I have spent 3 years playing Wizard101, and the most common complaint that I've seen is about the Chat system, an issues that has alreaedy been adressed.

Overall, I would say that whether or not you would like your family to play Wizard101 is completely a matter of opinion. But I, myself, would, have, and will recommend this game to my family, because it has proven to be a fun, safe game for them.

Diana BlueThorn, level 70 Ice Wizard

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1625
Defender
May 17, 2011
180
Adaptation wrote:
Although I was once a total proponent of Wizard101 for people of all ages, I must retract my statement. To call Wizard101 family friendly is a total joke. The only thing family friendly about this game are the graphics and the chat system. KI has embraced a business model based around incredible time and money commitments (required for the best gear and spells) which is not family friendly - in fact, it is family detrimental. I would NEVER let my kids get into this game.

I am dissapointed in KI because its business model seems to be more and more focused on promoting "games of chance" (call it gambling if you want) which are unhealthy for families and especially frustrating for kids. I love card games, and have spent plenty of money on them, but Wizard101 is extroadinarily expensive for what you get....not to mention you practically require a subscription unless you have purchased zones with crowns from the very beginning because quests require you to jump back and forth to random zones.

There is nothing wrong with games of chance if they are affordable and rewarding - they become gambling (on a dangerous level) when they require large amounts of cash for sometimes little or no payoff and/or great rewards.

This focus on games of chance has started to pervade all but the most basic aspects of Wizard101. Here are just a few examples:

-Card Packs (there is no way that I should have to invest $30 or more for a "chance" at getting an important tactical spell for my favorite character)

I spent 40k crowns trying to get ninja pigs for my lvl 68 myth wizard. If you have a high level myth you can understand why this spell is so crucial.

-Waterworks Gear (encourages a huge time investment)

I had to farm Waterworks more than 20 times for my set of a tricksy gear. When I look back on the time I spent doing it is depressing. I would never enourage my children to play a game that has such a luck-based time commitment for the most powerful gear.

-Pet Breeding: Way too random (little or no skill, huge time and/or money investment)

I posted a long time ago that pet breeding is too random. We can all agree that pets with the right combination of talents can be incredibly powerful...however, even when hatching 2 carefully selected pets for specific talents, it is almost impossible to get the exact combination of 4 talents that you want. I have hatched 2 pets with the right manifested talents over 50 times - spent countless gold and crown- and still failed to get the 4 talents I wanted in a pet.

I am giving up Wizard101, which is by far my favorite game, because I feel that KI has taken advantage of my love of the game. If you read these forums, many will disagree with my statements because they

A) were lucky and got the rare card or gear that they wanted with minimal time/money investment

B) have literally nothing better to do with their time or money

C) are so blinded by their love of the game that they can't see it for the tragedy it has become

Goodbye Wizard101, it was great while it lasted, but I am going to go play an MMO which primarily rewards skill and cooperation, NOT a detrimental investment in money and time.

that is your opinion and i have mine:
all money and time but no effort? think again. if you hatch a pet, you must breed your pet perfectly, and then hatch with anther perfect pet.
some people highly value in-game stuff. why? real life can sometimes be very dull. games like wizard101 are another world to explore, another realm to discover, and a nice getaway from the real world (not that that just be done all the time, though!). the chance, or gambling, as you may call it, adds the sport of surprise, tension, and wonder. you don't NEED to pay a thing. i leveled up a wizard from level 1 to level 27 without paying a thing. i could still be doing it. the jump back and forth to different places also makes the game not a narrow and dull stream, but an amazing river that twists, turns, and doubles back. spending time is rewarding, as from the well-known riddle:

i am of great value, but people waste me. people spend me but i never leave. i end but i always am there...

i am blinded because of my love for this game? maybe i am, but i do think that many will agree that it really just matters if you look deeper, or tend to stay and explore the dark corners instead. So yes, i may be blinded, but i am still thinking.

Survivor
Dec 17, 2009
21
Let's remember the saying "If you have nothing nice to say,say nothing" wow I cant believe you did that
Dylan LifeDreamer Balance Lvl.70

Survivor
Feb 01, 2011
48
Shiningfantasia wrote:
Omg, you nailed the hammer on the head with the Ninja Pig spell. I don't even want to say how many crowns I spent because I'd just embarrass myself now.

Lets just say 40k crowns does not even scratch the tip of my iceberg that I have created in trying to get my Myth to learn Ninja Pigs.

I really disagree and HATE what KI has done here. I will still call this a family game because families can still gather together and play, but to my eyes, KI has become nothing but a greedy, money grubbing corporation. Sure, everybody wants money. But this is GREED. Sheer, blind greed. Bad thing to teach to impressionable players. I honestly do not think that they put spells in card packs because their business was suffering. But because of greed.


Hold on guys (and girls), I wouldn't blame KI for "taking advantage". They need to make money too. An easy way to get Ninja Pigs is to:
A) Do quests, refight bosses, sell unwanted gear dropped from bosses, and play minigames to get gold, then,
B) go to the Bazaar and sell them (the Bazaar is the BEST place to buy and sell things; believe me, I'm Level 41, and quite experianced) and just buy the treasure card a buch.

I make regular visits to the Bazaar and I have really got a lot of gold. My house is the basic one (no Crowns or money lost there) the first one listed at the Shopping District Castle Shop, but it really looks great when you add pets, gardening items/plants, and other things dropped or found at the Bazaar or any other furnature store (my favorites include the ones in Marleybone and Mooshu).

See you in the Spiral!
Cheyenne GriffinCaller Level 41, Myth.

Explorer
Aug 10, 2009
96
Adaptation wrote:
Although I was once a total proponent of Wizard101 for people of all ages, I must retract my statement. To call Wizard101 family friendly is a total joke. The only thing family friendly about this game are the graphics and the chat system. KI has embraced a business model based around incredible time and money commitments (required for the best gear and spells) which is not family friendly - in fact, it is family detrimental. I would NEVER let my kids get into this game.

I am dissapointed in KI because its business model seems to be more and more focused on promoting "games of chance" (call it gambling if you want) which are unhealthy for families and especially frustrating for kids. I love card games, and have spent plenty of money on them, but Wizard101 is extroadinarily expensive for what you get....not to mention you practically require a subscription unless you have purchased zones with crowns from the very beginning because quests require you to jump back and forth to random zones.

There is nothing wrong with games of chance if they are affordable and rewarding - they become gambling (on a dangerous level) when they require large amounts of cash for sometimes little or no payoff and/or great rewards.

This focus on games of chance has started to pervade all but the most basic aspects of Wizard101. Here are just a few examples:

-Card Packs (there is no way that I should have to invest $30 or more for a "chance" at getting an important tactical spell for my favorite character)

I spent 40k crowns trying to get ninja pigs for my lvl 68 myth wizard. If you have a high level myth you can understand why this spell is so crucial.

-Waterworks Gear (encourages a huge time investment)

I had to farm Waterworks more than 20 times for my set of a tricksy gear. When I look back on the time I spent doing it is depressing. I would never enourage my children to play a game that has such a luck-based time commitment for the most powerful gear.

-Pet Breeding: Way too random (little or no skill, huge time and/or money investment)

I posted a long time ago that pet breeding is too random. We can all agree that pets with the right combination of talents can be incredibly powerful...however, even when hatching 2 carefully selected pets for specific talents, it is almost impossible to get the exact combination of 4 talents that you want. I have hatched 2 pets with the right manifested talents over 50 times - spent countless gold and crown- and still failed to get the 4 talents I wanted in a pet.

I am giving up Wizard101, which is by far my favorite game, because I feel that KI has taken advantage of my love of the game. If you read these forums, many will disagree with my statements because they

A) were lucky and got the rare card or gear that they wanted with minimal time/money investment

B) have literally nothing better to do with their time or money

C) are so blinded by their love of the game that they can't see it for the tragedy it has become

Goodbye Wizard101, it was great while it lasted, but I am going to go play an MMO which primarily rewards skill and cooperation, NOT a detrimental investment in money and time.


Um okay then... overload on argue. Look, you don't have to buy stuff on this, and if your kids like it, let them play! My mom and dad d:D Yes, I am a kid. And it is family friendly you don't have to buy anything. Just let us have our fun and you yours! :D :D

Mastermind
Aug 10, 2011
329
Oh wow, this Post was SOOOO long that is depressed me to read it.

It is Family Friendly. You don't just wanna speed through the Game. Besides, you don't need Rare Treasure Cards(Yes, SURPRISE!), or anything special from the Packs to beat the game, its a extra addition. Infact, where did you find that out? I don't see anywhere, or anybody, saying: You need Packs to defeat the Game.

Anyways, Kingisle isn't your typical Greedy business. They listen to Feedback, they do nice stuff for us. Be thankful. We don't have many business people like that.

Ok, have fun going to those other Violent typical fighting Games. Not very fun in my eyes, but hey, everyone likes different Games.

Hero
Sep 08, 2008
716
bionaknight wrote:
watsupdog111 wrote:
And this is why Ki can't beat WoW
Actually, it is. WoW is losing players en mass. Wizard101 is gaining more then they lose.


With expansion after expansion simply making things obsolete, and nerf after nerf always changing things that you get used to, I am not surprised at all. It all got boring a LONG time ago, and I quit back in 2008. And I could not be any happier!

Explorer
Mar 18, 2009
85
Crowns and card packs are awesome. But you don't NEED them. Subscriptions open the whole game for however long your subscription is (I go for a year at a time). Everything else you need is available in game for gold. I do purchase crowns occasionally. They are budgeted and used for things that other characters on my account can use too. Mastery Amulets, Mega Snack packs, various other items.

Pet hatching is a chance no matter what. But it does help if you age pets to Epic before hatching. Hatching with other Epic pets helps too.

Family Friendly? Are we playing the same game here? My daughter loves 101. She's only 7 so she has "Mom restrictions", but she does some of my pet stuff, helps me craft, and fights the occasional boss for me. She has a character of her own even though she plays on mine most of the time. 101 helps her with her math, reading , communication and problem solving..

This game is great for kids and families... I reccomend (sp?) 101 to anyone and everyone who will listen. It's something my whole family gets in on.

Survivor
May 30, 2009
47
I defend kids with my post. My brother, age 11, loves to craft and work strategically in dungeons. Thats it, pretty much.

Survivor
Jul 11, 2011
29
lol yup :) KI was never kid friendly and it never will be. The best gear in here can always be found in the crowns shop.

Defender
Jan 25, 2012
103
oh. i love wizard 101. i haven't played long but I've never disappointed in what i get.I'm an older player and even if not what i wanted, anything from packs are always nice.it's a lot like real life. you walk into a store in real life and order a rocky road ice cream cone and the man behind the counter tells you there all out. you don;t rant and scream and tell them their greedy for not ordering extra just for you. you buy a strawberry cone and come back tomorrow for rock road. sure you've now bought two cones in the same week instead of just the one you were expecting, but that strawberry cone you ordered the first day wasn't that bad and did satisfy the craving.

Survivor
Jan 06, 2012
7
Hi, I'm going to focus on the gambling part of your post and how I agree and disagree with it.

First off, I do my little jobs around the house and get about 5 to 10 pounds, usually I'll go and buy something nice, other times I'll spend a bit on crowns. Note: I work for my crowns, my parent don't just give me them. Unless, of course, it's a holiday and I get money as a gift.

Usually, what I buy with my crowns is:

One major item.
The first time I bought crowns I spent 15 pounds and bought a Crokagator mount, and I love it, and had a few spare crowns. Just a few days ago, I bought 5 pounds worth and got myself a pet egg for Easter, stll had a few left over.

A cheap thing.
Level >40 minions, that one limited edition wand, or even a potion to help me in battle.

A pack or two.
Now, at this point I have close to no crowns left and I can usually only afford one or two packs. The last time I bought a pack was when I got a lovely sword, witch I'm still using 10 levels later, some nice shoes that give me a cool spell and other little bits and bobs. Now, the key thing here is that I tell myself that I'm probably not going to get anything exceedingly great in this pack, and because, quite frankly, the odds are in the hundreds. And I don't get anything amazing, but I sure am happy! That is the key, just be grateful ith what you've got.

Now, you can tell that I'm not a massive pack buyer, so obviousily I've not had much to loose. However, when it's Easter I'm going to get a bit of cash from my parent, and I'm going to spend around 15-20 pounds worth of it on crowns. That's 10,000 crowns. I'm going spend a large majority of that on the Ravens hoard pack, because I really want one of the bows, or even a raven. Obviousily, I'm going to have to spend a lot, because, I mean, look at it! It's a giant raven, that you can ride! If it were in the crowns shop as a normal mount, it would cost tons! Maybe even up to 15,000 crowns! That tells me that it's going to be hard to get and I have to be prepared to spend a lot of crowns on it.

Now, some people get lucky and run off by just spending 1,000. Others are unlucky and have to spend as much as 20,000, ouch! You just have to know that this is a tiny, tiny, tiny chance that you will get that amazing Kirin, that super Bone Dragon, the fantastic Ninja Pig spell, the brilliant Wyvern or that awesome Nightmare. Just know that you can't get angry when you don't get it. KingsIsle have said on many occasions that it is a chance, you just have to be prepared and have good luck.

Anyways, I hope you come back and just gracefully enjoy the game and let other have their spells. They're not that good, anyways. Mostly just for show.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Mattimeo321 wrote:
lol yup :) KI was never kid friendly and it never will be. The best gear in here can always be found in the crowns shop.


Never Kid friendly? You do realize that this is the best family game this year, right?

Also, the best gear is not in the crowns shop. No, the best gear in the game, is in the game. No offense, but if you don't know this, you can't be that good of a player.

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4956
Mattimeo321 wrote:
lol yup :) KI was never kid friendly and it never will be. The best gear in here can always be found in the crowns shop.

Still not true. In fact, the gear in the crown shop is horrible. Waterworks has the best gear in the game to date.

Survivor
May 14, 2011
2
ki is a business , they have to pay ppl for their talents and plus utility bills can you blame them for wanting some cash

well the card pack is by chance , in getting good items , there is no ways around this unless they make less items availability in the card pack

and the water gear takes a lot of time cause its highly valuable, if it was easy to get then everyone would have one , wheres the fun in that

like i said a business needs money to run imagine the countless ppl they need to run their servers and again utility cost, plus they had to invest in servers which cost a lot of money

furthermore time consumption needed to finish this game or a quest actually makes the game more interesting and gives a feeling of achievement when you done a long quest

the idea of mmo games like this is not only to do the quest but to establish friendships sure you need crowns to go to other parts of the game but then again there is a big area which is free to play

yes you can argue that membership gives them the money they need for doing business.

but the crowns you buy actually gives the company more freedom to experiment with things and provide a better experience for game players in the future

Survivor
Jun 27, 2010
8
PAYING YOUR LIFE is what games like, so, if you want to keep playing at all, pay KingsIsle for what they've made us here.

Defender
May 15, 2010
153
My friend barely had to farm 10 times for all of the spells. Just easy bosses. Waterworks: Well, why do you hate it?
You can spend time on it for the awesome gear if you want to. You can spend a million dollars for a spell, or you can farm for it. Just work for stuff before you go blabbing about how you don't like the optional shortcuts Kingsisle has created.

Squire
Feb 29, 2012
501
I am a kid, and I quite frankly, disagree with this. I do get a rather big allowance, but only spend money on crowns about once every two months. When doing that my brother who also plays chips in some as well. When we do this we can save. So your point on gambling is almost entirely pointless.

True, I did buy some of the packs but I knew the chances of me getting anything were slim. Now I'll say, my brother got lucky. He got Dragon Wings and an Assailing Dragon from the Dragon's Horde pack on his first try. We were both trying for the Bone Dragon and when neither of us got it, there was no complaints. If you don't read the announcements page where it states that there is a very slim chance to get good prizes, then honestly, I don't think that you should ban your kids from this.

I have to say, when I went to help a friend in Celestia, I was mildly disappointed. Sure, the bosses and mobs may be hard to beat, but then again when should a challenge deter you? If you complain about challenges, then don't do them. Stick to the Malistaire arch if you will. I won't though, I am quite intrigued by the bosses and story lines.

As for the blinded by love, I don't spend every waking moment on here. In fact, over the next month I will spend less time then ever on Wizard101 due to complications in my schedule. If I can live without it, everyone else can. It's not something fundamental to me.

(Yes, I know I'm probably rambling. Please excuse that.)

Explorer
Jul 31, 2011
99
I am on the fence. For me W101 is family friendly for the most part. It is a business, that is a fact. They desire to earn money, another fact. (I believe any business owner desires the same)

Crowns are NOT required, crown gear is NOT better than WW gear. You can buy several mounts with gold, you can buy most houses with gold. Again crowns are not required for this game, the packs, elixirs, high end mounts, crown pets etc are all fluff and not a requirement and really do little to help game play.

As long as a user has a membership/subscription, via a game card at a retailer like wal-mart or via a direct membership via W101 website, you can do everything and advance through the game perfectly fine... no need for crown items or purchases.

Set time limits of regular play, maybe 30 minutes a day weekdays or a certain number of regular quests (5 quests a day only), dungeons being a different thing entirely. Some dungeons and gauntlets take more time than others, so maybe one particular day is WW day only because it takes you a long time. For us, personally, the last 2 dungeons of Avalon were our day, we were a team of two (my daughter and I) we won both but I admit, those two dungeons took us all day, LOL. (best two instances in the game thus far)

Every player/wizard is different. Some of us can get through WW in less than 90 minutes, then some of us take much longer, depends on the team you are with and depends on how you play.

I agree with the bazaar buying and selling suggestion 110%... that is one of the smartest moves to help get better gear, earn gold and help game play.

I have a level 80 and a level 63 wizard, my daughter also has the same, we have a family year membership, I buy us crowns from time to time for fun (her birthday etc), but I do not HAVE to, it is not required for us to advance or play... membership is all that is needed to advance in W101. Time allotted for playing can be controlled and limited easily as well.

Now the thing that makes W101 less family friendly to me is the begging for crowns gifts that happens constantly, the dating site type activities and the scamming that happens for "codes" and treasure cards and crown generators. BUT there is nothing we can do about much of it other than click ignore and change realms.

I know my daughter who is a teen and I have seen some shocking chats publicly in the commons, very sexual, explicit and sometimes racist, but we see that because I have enabled open chat for both of us. I know all I have to do is either mute us or enable filtered chat. It is sad how people feel it necessary to go around the filters in place via entering extra letters or symbols to talk so explicitly.

Those are my pennies on this subject, I love reading every one's views on this!

Survivor
Dec 21, 2009
41
Not to offend but a question to Mr. um WOW . If WOW is so much better why are you on wiz now? oh and also wiz surpassed WOW a while ago.

Survivor
Jan 11, 2011
15
Well i got a opinion i love this game :P and only idiots ( my opinion ) buy the mega snack packs i bought some crowns today and bought 1 hoard pack it gives you rank 8! and yes im not joking rank 8! snacks so they give you like 30 pet exp so if you read this post don't be a idiot o.o be a smart dude buy 1 - 3 hoard packs if you don't believe me =p ( tip to not use 2.5k and use 399 to get rank 8 pet snacks o.o )

Survivor
Mar 17, 2009
6
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but almost every game has a system of players spending real money for a chance to get something rare. The point of investing time in lengthy dungeons is to obtain difficult items. The Waterworks was purposefully created to be difficult for a reason. The clothes that can be dropped are the best in the game, so expect to work for it. As to the game itself being 'family friendly', it is. The game wasn't created for just a young age group, it was created for every age, and kids can learn that patience can reap great rewards.

Explorer
Jun 03, 2012
81
I agree with the lack of family friendliness and if you spend any time reading the forum on this site and Central you will get the clear idea that it is game playing adults that are actually playing not "families" and/or many kids. Let me start by saying I am a new player. I began the game to be able to play with my grand kids who are 10 and 7. After spending a fortune to get memberships for all of us. (don't even try to give me the song and dance about "free" play) They were bought because it quickly became clear that I would end up spending more without the memberships for us to have any access. Notice,there is a "family" account but all family members need their own membership. After the memberships then came the purchasing of "mounts" and "pets" and yes of course I know playing can be done without them. But when you see everyone with the cool riding creatures and adorable pets, even I had to have one, plus you need crowns to buy snacks etc. and pretty soon I am burning a hole in my PayPal account. I am now into this "family friendly"game several hundred dollars. Now, after several weeks of play it is also becoming clear that it is too hard for my seven year old grandson to play a wizard on his own, and my grand daughter at ten can barely handle it and certainly cannot understand the nuances of dueling. I barely do and I am a college educated professional adult. So, cute graphics aside - this is not really a family game, it is too advanced for kids under 12 or 13 and by that age not many kids want to play video games with their parents or grandparents. But all that said, I have to admit I really like playing and actually spend more time playing alone than with the grand kids ( who are growing bored with it because it is too compllicate.) -Sarai Thunderhaven, lvl 19 fire wizard

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
711
gtarhannon wrote:
Apologies in advance if I offend. Please know that I do not intend to do so. There are just several points you touch on which make me want to respond due to a recent argument with an in-law...

I know a tremendous number of people who think that because they spent money with a company, once, that they should now be entitled to far more than their original purchase. The company "makes millions" they say. It doesn't matter that the company also spends millions on salary, taxes, and other miscellaneous business overhead and that realistically, a company like KI is likely still not even in the black yet, with most of their profits going to pay down the initial investment in capital required to get the company off the ground. The unrealistic expectations of product for the amount of money spent can be seen on these forums every other week. Wanting something at someone else's expense, regardless of your financial status, is the very definition of greed. Given that this sentiment is pervasive throughout every facet of our society, I fail to see any moral high ground at any level of the socioeconomic ladder.


@gtarhannon,

It's great to see your thoughts in these forums. It's been a while.

Thanks so much for your analysis of the situation. I agree that, as a young company, KI likely has start up expenses to pay off. It does take time to get a business up and running; having a new business with 25 million clients to please MUST be a challenge.

I've been lurking fansites lately, reading about the problems we have in the spiral from other perspectives, and I've come across some ugliness. I don't think those that make up mean names and videos to criticize KI are doing anyone a service. Such behavior is the mark of petty greed. These people seem to think that charging crowns for items is somehow dishonest business. As if any business doesn't charge something for its services. Heck, I even pay routine fines at the public library, when I forget to return the FREE books on time.

I mentioned in a previous post that the demand for immediate gratification plagues the Spiral now, where once it was a place to gather with friends, work toward a common goal, and achieve a satisfying reward. That appears to be a bygone time, one I miss greatly.

Good to see you again,

Qbb