If you find Darkmoor too easy now. Simply go do something else more of a challenge for you.
I do understand the point about absurd player requests to nerf this, that, and the other. Just because there are lots of players asking for things to be made easier to do, faster to accomplish doesn't mean that KI is capitulating to every frivolous demand. I feel there is some over the top exaggeration on this thread. When anyone who has spent any time at the Darkmoor graveyard knows there are players who will stand there begging to be a part of a team. Usually with not the best gear on. This is not a couple of hundred players or thousands that can't do it. You don't make a change for that many people when you have millions of players.
No Darkmoor is not required, it's not a mainline quest. So because many players can't seem to acquire the gear and spells because of the difficulty, oh well too bad for you? Go finish Khrysalis and Polaris and be happy.
Wow, that's kinda deep. As if there is no new content to challenge you. I personally have all my gear but spent many, many, many hours farming the snot out of that dungeon. So have all of you that have it. Clearly KI feels (as they know the numbers and we don't) that this nerf was warranted.
>Like what? K.I. has taken almost all the challenges out of the entire game. What would you suggest - other than Rasputin which isn't all that challenging with the right team.
Here's the thing: Darkmoor is unnecessary, you don't need to do it. If it was too demanding, it was your choice if you wanted to do it, which is why I don't think it was a great idea to nerf it. The dungeon was a lot of fun before the nerf but now it feels more like a chore. I remember that I did a few runs with a couple of friends a day before the nerf, we were enjoying ourselves and having long and extended conversations while also formulating a strategy. Now that people can do it in under 1 hour with very little, that sounds more like a chore and NOT as fun and challenging as it used to be.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying. But when is the next world coming out? It was almost 2 years between Polaris and Khrysalis II. KI needs optional content to keep all players engaged, not just a select few.
So do they make up a whole bunch of new easier dungeons to keep people who couldn't do Darkmoor in its previous incarnation busy? Or do they nerf Darkmoor and make it possible for others to complete it?
Honestly I wish KI would make dungeons scalable like the one-shot dungeons. Maybe not level based, but just have a difficulty setting where people who want it can still have the extreme challenge, and others who maybe don't have a lot of time or can't find a solid team still have a challenge that isn't impossible under the conditions they have to work with. That way you could have what you want, and others could have what they want.
>Like what? K.I. has taken almost all the challenges out of the entire game. What would you suggest - other than Rasputin which isn't all that challenging with the right team.
Since this game provides no challenge for you then maybe this game isn't for you anymore.
>Like what? K.I. has taken almost all the challenges out of the entire game. What would you suggest - other than Rasputin which isn't all that challenging with the right team.
Or if you still enjoy the game and want a challenge try doing Rasputin or Darkmoor without a full team. Try to solo it. If it's so easy now then that shouldn't be too hard for you. I know I can't. So more power to you.
What the better thing to do would have been to ask if KI could come up with multiple difficulty levels for boss dungeons. Since asking for a buff of a dungeon that has had two nerfs in two year's is not likely to happen. Say normal difficulty for what it is now and extreme would be what it used to be.
On extreme difficulty there could be a tweak in the loot table and slight increase in the drop rate. While normal could remain what it is today.
Wanna join team up for Darkmoor on extreme? No problem. As soon as you select 'team up' a window pops up and asks normal or extreme difficulty. You select which and you get placed in a queue with others that have made that choice.
You can even add a title for doing Darkmoor extreme.
If you find Darkmoor too easy now. Simply go do something else more of a challenge for you.
I do understand the point about absurd player requests to nerf this, that, and the other. Just because there are lots of players asking for things to be made easier to do, faster to accomplish doesn't mean that KI is capitulating to every frivolous demand. I feel there is some over the top exaggeration on this thread. When anyone who has spent any time at the Darkmoor graveyard knows there are players who will stand there begging to be a part of a team. Usually with not the best gear on. This is not a couple of hundred players or thousands that can't do it. You don't make a change for that many people when you have millions of players.
No Darkmoor is not required, it's not a mainline quest. So because many players can't seem to acquire the gear and spells because of the difficulty, oh well too bad for you? Go finish Khrysalis and Polaris and be happy.
Wow, that's kinda deep. As if there is no new content to challenge you. I personally have all my gear but spent many, many, many hours farming the snot out of that dungeon. So have all of you that have it. Clearly KI feels (as they know the numbers and we don't) that this nerf was warranted.
There is literally nothing challenging in this game besides soloing. There are only 2 bosses considered near Malistiare's difficulty, Omen Stribog and Rasputin. However both of these bosses are easy. Rasputin? My life can beat him in 6 rounds average (life isn't even meant to be a hitting school!). Omen? I was doing Omen earlier with my brother's balance, a storm friend, my fire and an ice. There wasn't really a healer but my brother kept spamming availing which was always stolen by the sentinel. After we beat the sentinel, there was a tornado warning so I had to go for 15 minutes along with my brother and when I came back, the storm was rdy to kill and my brother's balance and the ice were STILL ALIVE even with the lack of a healer. I'm pretty sure neither of those are considered challenging.
There is literally nothing challenging in this game besides soloing. There are only 2 bosses considered near Malistiare's difficulty, Omen Stribog and Rasputin. However both of these bosses are easy. Rasputin? My life can beat him in 6 rounds average (life isn't even meant to be a hitting school!). Omen? I was doing Omen earlier with my brother's balance, a storm friend, my fire and an ice. There wasn't really a healer but my brother kept spamming availing which was always stolen by the sentinel. After we beat the sentinel, there was a tornado warning so I had to go for 15 minutes along with my brother and when I came back, the storm was rdy to kill and my brother's balance and the ice were STILL ALIVE even with the lack of a healer. I'm pretty sure neither of those are considered challenging.
Well you already figured out what to do if you want more of a challenge. Solo it. Or maybe find another game better suited for you.
When optional side content has the same ( or more ) level of difficulty, as the main quest line, then I consider that the game has gone too far in a direction that only frustrates the "average" player. When the dungeons require ( force ) you to use team-up or spend crowns on henchmen/potions to successfully beat the bosses ( often with egregious cheats, several minions & more health than 3 wizards ) then the game has become completely hostile to a solo player. I want a challenge, I want a fair chance to win - I don't want to be beat over the head and defeated in two rounds. This both frustrates and depresses me. I ask you, how well would you do if you didn't have that super gear? Or friends willing to help you? I think KI should really take a good look at the trend in super hard dungeons - many could stand a good nerfing!
There is literally nothing challenging in this game besides soloing. There are only 2 bosses considered near Malistiare's difficulty, Omen Stribog and Rasputin. However both of these bosses are easy. Rasputin? My life can beat him in 6 rounds average (life isn't even meant to be a hitting school!). Omen? I was doing Omen earlier with my brother's balance, a storm friend, my fire and an ice. There wasn't really a healer but my brother kept spamming availing which was always stolen by the sentinel. After we beat the sentinel, there was a tornado warning so I had to go for 15 minutes along with my brother and when I came back, the storm was rdy to kill and my brother's balance and the ice were STILL ALIVE even with the lack of a healer. I'm pretty sure neither of those are considered challenging.
You make a very good point. Soloing provides you with a challenge. That's something that's within your control.
People who can't find a team to do these dungeons with? Very often that's out of their control.
That probably also played a very critical role in KI's decision to nerf.
Others have pointed out things like that too. Instead of using a team, solo. Instead of using your best gear, strip yourself down to starter gear. Instead of having a stacked arsenal of spells, empty many of the spells from your spell book that are making these challenges too easy. If the possibility of being defeated is what you crave, there are plenty of things you can do to improve your chances.
You should do a video with your Life soloing Rasputin beating him in 6 rounds. A lot of us would like to see how it's done. That would be amazing! I know you said average, so if it happens to be 7 or 5 rounds instead, that would be cool as well.
Or if you still enjoy the game and want a challenge try doing Rasputin or Darkmoor without a full team. Try to solo it. If it's so easy now then that shouldn't be too hard for you. I know I can't. So more power to you.
What the better thing to do would have been to ask if KI could come up with multiple difficulty levels for boss dungeons. Since asking for a buff of a dungeon that has had two nerfs in two year's is not likely to happen. Say normal difficulty for what it is now and extreme would be what it used to be.
On extreme difficulty there could be a tweak in the loot table and slight increase in the drop rate. While normal could remain what it is today.
Wanna join team up for Darkmoor on extreme? No problem. As soon as you select 'team up' a window pops up and asks normal or extreme difficulty. You select which and you get placed in a queue with others that have made that choice.
You can even add a title for doing Darkmoor extreme.
Soloing only gives you bragging rights, not much else and keep in mind that people usually farm these places, not do it for fun so Soloing would only add to the length and probably give you very little. Besides, Rasputin and Malistaire have already been soloed so it wouldn't be that impressive for me to solo it. Darkmoor extreme also sounds like a bad idea since it requires you to use team up which is not very reliant (at least in my experiences).
When optional side content has the same ( or more ) level of difficulty, as the main quest line, then I consider that the game has gone too far in a direction that only frustrates the "average" player. When the dungeons require ( force ) you to use team-up or spend crowns on henchmen/potions to successfully beat the bosses ( often with egregious cheats, several minions & more health than 3 wizards ) then the game has become completely hostile to a solo player. I want a challenge, I want a fair chance to win - I don't want to be beat over the head and defeated in two rounds. This both frustrates and depresses me. I ask you, how well would you do if you didn't have that super gear? Or friends willing to help you? I think KI should really take a good look at the trend in super hard dungeons - many could stand a good nerfing!
It's optional side content like you said, there's no reason to nerf it, it's meant to be a challenge not your regular old Khrysalis boss. Besides, people have soloed dungeons as hard as these, it's meant to be an achievement to be able to solo Darkmoor. How would I fare against Darkmoor without a team or my super gear? Well, I'm not entirely sure what would happen but I know this dungeon has been soloed before, all you need is crit gear and outgoing gear with a sanctuary up.
You make a very good point. Soloing provides you with a challenge. That's something that's within your control.
People who can't find a team to do these dungeons with? Very often that's out of their control.
That probably also played a very critical role in KI's decision to nerf.
Others have pointed out things like that too. Instead of using a team, solo. Instead of using your best gear, strip yourself down to starter gear. Instead of having a stacked arsenal of spells, empty many of the spells from your spell book that are making these challenges too easy. If the possibility of being defeated is what you crave, there are plenty of things you can do to improve your chances.
You should do a video with your Life soloing Rasputin beating him in 6 rounds. A lot of us would like to see how it's done. That would be amazing! I know you said average, so if it happens to be 7 or 5 rounds instead, that would be cool as well.
First of all, when I'm doing Darkmoor, I'm usually helping someone or farming. I never ever do it for fun so getting rid of my gear wouldn't serve much of a purpose. Would it make the dungeon any harder? Possibly but reducing my damage and critical will only increase the time of the dungeon. I have a rare chance of being defeated since I have lots of resist and the bosses now have extremely low pierce. What purpose would lengthening the dungeon prove? That I can do it very easily with bad gear? In my opinion, this would only be bragging rights and the people I would be helping would be mad at me for not wearing my crit gear thus making the dungeon slower and wasting their time.
That's nice that you found it easy, but that's not everyone's experience. I've been dreading finishing the final part of darkmoor for the longest time and finally managed to drag myself through it. I finished it, but certainly did not find it easy and really have zero desire to go in again even though it would be nice to have the gear. I don't expect t he whole game to be like wizard city, but darkmoor is, imo, very difficult, especially for those who don't have the luxury of having 4 accounts of their own or having a ton of bffs in game who also want to drop everything and run darkmoor nonstop until everyone has their gear. I would be quite happy if darkmoor had the same level of difficulty for level 100s as waterworks had back in its day for level 60s. I was able to complete that dungeon with only 2 level 60 wizards wearing bazaar gear. It was challenging, but not to the level that made me say "forget the gear, this isn't worth it."
The best thing would be if they could scale the difficulty based on the number of wizards present in the dungeon so that teams of 2, 3, or 4 could all have the same level of difficulty and all have a chance to be challenged appropriately and get the gear.
That's nice that you found it easy, but that's not everyone's experience. I've been dreading finishing the final part of darkmoor for the longest time and finally managed to drag myself through it. I finished it, but certainly did not find it easy and really have zero desire to go in again even though it would be nice to have the gear. I don't expect t he whole game to be like wizard city, but darkmoor is, imo, very difficult, especially for those who don't have the luxury of having 4 accounts of their own or having a ton of bffs in game who also want to drop everything and run darkmoor nonstop until everyone has their gear. I would be quite happy if darkmoor had the same level of difficulty for level 100s as waterworks had back in its day for level 60s. I was able to complete that dungeon with only 2 level 60 wizards wearing bazaar gear. It was challenging, but not to the level that made me say "forget the gear, this isn't worth it."
The best thing would be if they could scale the difficulty based on the number of wizards present in the dungeon so that teams of 2, 3, or 4 could all have the same level of difficulty and all have a chance to be challenged appropriately and get the gear.
If you don't think the gear is worth it, then don't go for it. The only use of Darkmoor is pvp, nothing else is difficult enough to require the need of Darkmoor gear.
If you don't think the gear is worth it, then don't go for it. The only use of Darkmoor is pvp, nothing else is difficult enough to require the need of Darkmoor gear.
I'm not going for the gear. I can certainly get by without it. I was just saying I would LIKE to get the gear as it's fun to have the best set that is out. If they presented players with a challenge that could reasonably be completed with 2 players which would make it a zillion times easier to find at least someone to go in with (like how WW was) then I'd be having fun trying to get my gear. As it is you basically need 4 players that work really well together to get through this so... oh well I guess. I hope they continue releasing craftable or other gear that's at least usable going into future worlds so those of us who just cannot make it through instnaces like darkmoor a zillion times per character can continue enjoying the PVE.
Since this game provides no challenge for you then maybe this game isn't for you anymore.
Unfortunately, that may be what I have to do. It was nice to occasionally have really fun things to do. Now that they're gone, why am I playing?
(And you thought the attitude that if three things in game were too difficult, then don't do them, was bad? You just told someone to quit altogether. I guess it's only offensive if it offends you...)
I'm not going for the gear. I can certainly get by without it. I was just saying I would LIKE to get the gear as it's fun to have the best set that is out. If they presented players with a challenge that could reasonably be completed with 2 players which would make it a zillion times easier to find at least someone to go in with (like how WW was) then I'd be having fun trying to get my gear. As it is you basically need 4 players that work really well together to get through this so... oh well I guess. I hope they continue releasing craftable or other gear that's at least usable going into future worlds so those of us who just cannot make it through instnaces like darkmoor a zillion times per character can continue enjoying the PVE.
I highly doubt that they will make the next world so difficult as to require the need of Darkmoor gear. Zafaria never required waterworks gear although it was a convenience to have.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying. But when is the next world coming out? It was almost 2 years between Polaris and Khrysalis II. KI needs optional content to keep all players engaged, not just a select few.
So do they make up a whole bunch of new easier dungeons to keep people who couldn't do Darkmoor in its previous incarnation busy? Or do they nerf Darkmoor and make it possible for others to complete it?
Honestly I wish KI would make dungeons scalable like the one-shot dungeons. Maybe not level based, but just have a difficulty setting where people who want it can still have the extreme challenge, and others who maybe don't have a lot of time or can't find a solid team still have a challenge that isn't impossible under the conditions they have to work with. That way you could have what you want, and others could have what they want.
They could be scalable to number of players and to "Normal" (pre-nerf) or "Simplified."
But making everything soloable to the average players makes the game (an MMO, so not actually intended to be non-social and played solo although many have, including me for most of the game) far too easy for those playing in groups of three or four.
Pre-nerf Darkmoor was doable in less than 40 minutes with a good, coordinated, thoughtful team. I know because I did it, several times.
It could take three hours with a less good, coordinated team. I know because I got that in Team Up several times.
The first nerf was necessary as was the adjustment for the Polaris update. The most recent nerf destroyed any fun (need to strategize) for good, coordinated groups. It was way too much.
That's kind of the point; the dungeon was specifically created to be optional, done with a team, and its rewards, while good were also optional. People who don't want to play with a team for this should realize it will be nearly impossible. I don't PVP. I'm never going to get that gorilla mount, or the Commander gear. If I want them, I have to play the game KI wrote. Why can't this be viewed the same way?
Ok, I went through Darkmoor (all 3 dungeons) just recently with my 3 accounts - a Life, an Ice and a Storm. I did a dungeon a day. Working 3 accounts at a time is not an easy task as you only have 30 seconds to decide each wizards' turn. the first dungeon was not too hard took me about an hour and a half to get through. The second dungeon took me about 2 hours roughly and I avoided the minion fights but had to potion a couple of times so sneaking past minions in the hallway was all too fun but doable. I actually skipped a day and did not do the third dungeon until the next day. I cannot feed all the details as I did this dungeon practically in my sleep (i am not bragging, it was at 1:30 AM when I started it) and figured I would be done in a few hours then go to sleep. Well, having done this dungeon for the first time I did not realize how long it would actually take. The Shane Von Shane in this dungeon was actually really easy but Yegveny and Malistaire really took the cake. It took me 5 hours overall to finish the last dungeon in Darkmoor. I looked forward to sleeping in all day. Ok, now maybe Darkmoor is nerfed, but as an adult I wondered how kids have the patience to weed through these dungeons. I mean, regardless all the conventional rules of battle were not allowed in Darkmoor. Blades and heals were punished. MC pets were punished and even using feints was punished. Nerfed or not this dungeon will still give any player a run for their money. I have no criticism for KI whatsoever. It was a pain to deal with these bosses, but I see it as worth it.
Why would people want other players to leave the game? There are people who enjoy casual play and challenging play. All the challenge seekers would like is side areas that appeal to our interests. We understand the game is casual which is why we have no issue with the man quest being as easy as it needs to be. What we do have an issue with is when an optional area designed specifically to fulfill a need that is not met in the main game is nerfed.
Unfortunately, that may be what I have to do. It was nice to occasionally have really fun things to do. Now that they're gone, why am I playing?
(And you thought the attitude that if three things in game were too difficult, then don't do them, was bad? You just told someone to quit altogether. I guess it's only offensive if it offends you...)
Yes, and I suggested nothing that I don't do myself. I quit when I get annoyed at the direction the game is taking. I quit when I get bored because there is a drought of new content. I quit when they changed critical. Sometimes when I quit I leave KI moderators a nice post about why I quit.
Then an update may come out and I join. Or I see a must have bundle and join. This game will be around for a long time. My first MMORPG Asheron's Call is still running, and that came out in 1999.
I watch your posts regularly and respect your input(even when opposing). Sounds like you might need a break too. I'll keep an eye out for your posts when you do.
I agree that for me, darkmoor is too easy now. I also remember when it wasn't, and have witnessed the wrong school/wrong gear elitism first hand. I think i will try some team ups right now, just to help a few folks through. I would be really very happy to help any of you through if you still need a hand. Lets just agree on a time and place, I am Pacific.
Yes, and I suggested nothing that I don't do myself. I quit when I get annoyed at the direction the game is taking. I quit when I get bored because there is a drought of new content. I quit when they changed critical. Sometimes when I quit I leave KI moderators a nice post about why I quit.
Then an update may come out and I join. Or I see a must have bundle and join. This game will be around for a long time. My first MMORPG Asheron's Call is still running, and that came out in 1999.
I watch your posts regularly and respect your input(even when opposing). Sounds like you might need a break too. I'll keep an eye out for your posts when you do.
This is good advice. Quit maybe isn't the right word, but the idea is right. I took a 3 month break from the game because there were too many things that were bothering me. I'm still a long ways from the excitement I had when I first started playing, but I felt better when I came back.
The worst thing for me is that, even though I know my reasons are irrational, I don't want to do anything with teams anymore. I don't want to add friends because even though they don't know it, I feel like the main reason I add friends now is to have people I can do difficult content with, like Darkmoor. I don't like using people, but ultimately that's what I'm being forced to do. I don't play often enough any more to develop natural friendships where I'd be able to convince myself that people on my friends list are more than just people I have around to do stuff for me. It's a dirty feeling that I don't like, even if others don't care. The problem is I do, and I have to live with myself.
I occasionally enjoy PvE. Azteca was fun cause it dinosaurs AND zombies! Polaris was fun, even though it had bugs at first. I liked that Polaris wasn't a horrible grind.
But to me PvP is the point of this game. That means, among other things, getting the best gear, and THAT means farming Darkmoor. I found Darkmoor to be very long and excruciatingly difficult without a top notch team. For me, the best teams are always friends, because you know each others' playing styles and friends don't bail on you in dungeons.
So I'm glad they made it easier. That will make it easier to convince my friends who already have their Darkmoor gear to help me farm there.
Sorry if they made it "too easy." KI gave us a breather with Polaris. I expect the next world will really hard.
I occasionally enjoy PvE. Azteca was fun cause it dinosaurs AND zombies! Polaris was fun, even though it had bugs at first. I liked that Polaris wasn't a horrible grind.
But to me PvP is the point of this game. That means, among other things, getting the best gear, and THAT means farming Darkmoor. I found Darkmoor to be very long and excruciatingly difficult without a top notch team. For me, the best teams are always friends, because you know each others' playing styles and friends don't bail on you in dungeons.
So I'm glad they made it easier. That will make it easier to convince my friends who already have their Darkmoor gear to help me farm there.
Sorry if they made it "too easy." KI gave us a breather with Polaris. I expect the next world will really hard.
If pvp is the true point of this game like you said, shouldn't this gear be really hard to get in that case? Waterworks with a full team of lvl 60s is probably harder now than Darkmoor with a full team of max wizards.
As well, I really doubt that the next world will be hard because some people are STILL using waterworks gear and since Kingsisle has to be fair to everyone, they will make the next world have the same difficulty as Khrysalis.
No matter what Kingsisle does to this game, people will hate it and people will love it. People will say it is too easy and people will say it is too hard. When you are a huge developer, you simply can't win over every single player you have. The majority thought Darkmoor to be too hard and I agree with them. It was doable but it took me up to hours sometimes and that is a lot of time to spend on one dungeon, especially when farming it.
Amber
