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Are we taking this too seriously?

AuthorMessage
Defender
Aug 07, 2011
116
"manage our game" that phrase speaks volumes to me about how this "respectful" kid feels towards the rest of the wizards in the Spiral. It is not his game or my game; it is KI's game and they need to manage it better IMHO.

I don't know about him but I am paying for the privilege to play it and for my grandson to play it. I've said before and I'll say it again I'm sure that this group of bad actors is trying to take over the game and make it what they want instead of what the rules state.

This is why they protest freedom when reported even though free speech does not apply here as any company has the right to make rules of conduct on their property which you can be evicted from for not complying with. What they're really yelling for isn't freedom anyway; it is anarchy and anarchy wouldn't be the utter freedom so many mistakenly think. It would be the strong riding rough shod over the weak as we see here. Well, they were mistaken about how weak we are and now they're crying because they're not getting away with bullying everyone into accepting their crass behavior.

I think that's the crux of the matter. It is everyone's game, not just theirs, and they think they don't have to care how they offend people or how it will affect the young children that play when they behave crudely. They are wrong.

One thing to keep in mind is this whole ugly mess was started by their behavior. If they had never acted this way and if the bad behavior hadn't grown to the extent it has, no one would even have noticed it enough to interfere with them. They acted out so badly that they made others stop and say woah, not cool, not here, not in this game that was created for all of us, not stuff kids shouldn't be seeing.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I don't want to get into this too much--I try hard to avoid posting here for reasons many of you may know and I won't go into. But I want to reply to Dragonlad vs the Adults here (because that is how it reads). The adults say the kid was "ranting," Dragonlad says this kid was expressing an opinion. I imagine, although I wasn't there, obviously, that the kid in question was just trying hard to make a point, and wasn't getting much response of a positive nature. He may also have been nervous-but-determined, which, in kids of a certain age, can lead to this kind of repetition--mostly due to lack of vocab and no experience in public speaking. If he was polite, if irritating, perhaps you adults who claim to care about "kids in the game" could cut him some slack. At least he cares about something, and was trying to express that passion/interest/belief in a polite (if, again, overly repetitive way). I would hope that ganging up on kids isn't all this group is about--if you do care about the game, try to remember that they are kids, and sometimes awkward and not as suave as you would like. Since he was polite, I think he deserved a listen. Too bad it seems only one or two of you were willing to give him one.

Oh, and please don't call me a troll. I am just sticking up for a brave kid who maybe didn't come off the way he wanted/hoped. As a teacher, I have countless of them. They are good kids, just immature with language.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2010
9
I've been in the commons and people would pretend to be new players and come to people (even me) and start saying stuff like "your a noob!" or "your so weak", "I can beat you with one hit!". I dont let this bother me but it may bother others... Before two guys came up to me and started calling me a noob, and honestly i like being called a noob XD.... Not sure why? :P But anyway i went along with it and started to say "yeah i'm a noob! :D" and they kept saying it and i kept agreeing. Then one of them said alright lets stop now and they put on regular gear and left to a different realm to do it to someone else.

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1357
I agree.... Some of these ideas are overboard. I understand, this has to be addressed, but punishing most of the community because of a select few "imbeciles" as my friend calls them, is kinda over the top. O_O I would like a few changes, but not losing my chat for not being subscribed >_<

Defender
May 17, 2011
179
Mastermind
Feb 29, 2012
323
isaiahcrabbe159357 wrote:
I've been in the commons and people would pretend to be new players and come to people (even me) and start saying stuff like "your a noob!" or "your so weak", "I can beat you with one hit!". I dont let this bother me but it may bother others... Before two guys came up to me and started calling me a noob, and honestly i like being called a noob XD.... Not sure why? :P But anyway i went along with it and started to say "yeah i'm a noob! :D" and they kept saying it and i kept agreeing. Then one of them said alright lets stop now and they put on regular gear and left to a different realm to do it to someone else.


I have seen these types of players. Easiest thing to to is a one word reply:
"And?"

One foul mouthed kid in the commons was especially obnoxious one night. I friended him and sent him a note to knock it off. He was a plague around the many wizards who were actually hanging out and having fun.
So he searched and found me and started the bully technique. He threatened to hack my account (which I reported him for and told him about it) over and over and I just replied "Okay", called his bluff and sat there waiting.
Other wizards see that you can stand up to bullies, and KI provides the tools to allow you to NOT be intimidated by them.
Report.
Ignore.
Switch Realms.

I have taught my kids these techniques because the way the way the world works is that people are going to say what they want, and we have no control over what they say (at that moment). We can only control how we react.
So if somebody annoys them, they hit ignore and switch realms, etc.
pods

Survivor
Jul 07, 2011
27
hunteray09 wrote:
This may be my last post, as my subscription was ended this month and July is nearing it's end. while I can say i'll miss this wonderful community, lately I think we have stepped some stones too far. I have read many post by the "Wizard City Protectors" and lately, they seem to have gotten deadly serious as if a life or death situation. I understand the importance of the problem at hand, with online bullying and cussing, and all the other matter. But what I have seen is these "Terms of Use breakers" being called "The dark side". is this too over the top? perhaps not… But my main problem is with the strictness of some of the members of the Wizard City Protectors. I have seen many, and out of the many I have seen, at least half of these Protectors end up in a huge hissy fight. Eventually, both the victim and it's prosecutor are breaking the rule of the "ToU" in argument, and gang up. Guys, let's be serious, it's great that you want to help clean up the game, but this is the main topic on the game and message boards. Let's focus on the game itself more.
I have a lot more reasoning, but am out of time at the moment, hopefully I can expand on this later… If not, well it means my time for the game has left. Please, before posting, think of what i'm saying here. Let's calm down a little. Greyrose has already made changes in response to our asking, and the game is a lot cleaner than it used to. So, let's all rejoice and calm ourselves.
Thank you all for this game and my friends. Goodbye.
I agree with you Hunteray09. I think many people take this too seriously (no offense KI! :-)). There's more important things in life than W101. But off topic,I've read many of your posts Hunteray09. It's sad for me to see you go. I hope you get another subscription to W101. See you soon!

Delver
Apr 10, 2010
286
Dragonlad,
I do know that sometimes I will get on my soapbox and go on a rant. Irl, my family will sometimes tell me enough, that I've gotten the message across. You did stand up for what you believe in and I know that takes courage. Sometimes, the problem may be NOT in the message but the way its said that will get others to listen. Its just trying to figure out the best way of getting your message across. I still have that problem.

This isn't meant as a Kids vs Adults disagreement. What the WCP are against is what has become an unfriendly place for younger children to play without strong supervision of an adult. Not all the wizards misbehaving are kids either, in my opinion. What we want is for everyone to clean up their in game language, to not bully, and to treat others the way we want to be treated.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
dragonlad1230 wrote:
Here I had to ask my dad what to do. I said, I know what happened and these adults are not telling the truth about this kid saying he "not care about rules." Cause I don't like to say people making things up. Especally adults. So my dad says, how do you know? And I tell him, I know because I wasn't really telling the truth on the Boards, cause I am afraid of getting bullied there like before. And he says, "you stand up for something, you stand behind it too."

So I am scared of all these adults with there 20 inch long posts. I am a kid and not a good writer. That kid was me. I apologize if it seemed like ranting. But no one was listening to me and I thought it was important that kids should be trusted and that to solve their problems in the game. I hear cussing, I report it. I have never been reported for cussing. I am raised right and I go to church, too. We don't talk like that. But when I see all these adults threaten people with reporting, and after, my friend with open, she tells me they all brag about how many kids they report there. I think that is wrong. You stand there and stare at kids and dare them to cuss, you making a situation happen, not fixing a problem. And most kids are more scared of being false reported than anything. I mean that. Ithappens a lot.

My parents say, you play this, you act mature. I try to. I am sorry if I seemed not that way last night. But that guy level 80 storm (boss, I guess, of the group) kept telling me I was annoying. I was trying to make a point that the game is for kids and adults, not just adults who are wanting to be police.

I do read rules. I play by them. That part you said, I never said it. It was untrue. A am sorry again for being too scared to be honest the first time. I won't do that again. But I hope someone listen to this cause I think these Protectors are scaring kids for no reason.

Tristan Lionrider, Adept Conjurer ( a kid who cares about the game, just like you)


Thank you for speaking up here. I was there for part of it, but I do not know what all transpired before my arrival, so I cannot comment on what happened.

I'm sorry you felt scared. I'm glad your dad encouraged you to write here and speak up. I will look into what happened to see what I can do to help.

I'm frequently in the Spiral as Brynn IceBlade. If you see me in the Dye Shop (for example), I will be happy to talk to you.

Squire
Jun 19, 2009
514
This will be my last reply, and hopefully I can kinda clean up the mess I have started .

I'm going to be replying to everyone here, so no specific address will be needed.

First of all, i'd like to point out my rudeness, and if I have been rude I am terribly sorry. I felt since I was leaving, that I needed to further go into my final claim of the community, rather than beating around the bush. It made me feel better to express my full opinion to all of you, even if it did sound harsh.

That put aside, i'd like to point out one person before I make a full statement. Darthjt. Never have I seen more reasonable posts on a forum from a forumer. I don't mean to praise one out of all the other great people here, but no matter what I can say, Darthjt can always have a reasonable explanation that makes me see another side of the issue. So i'd like to thank him for that.

Anyways, i've been thinking hard lately, and have seen the reason. I have always hated bullying, and always wanted to stop it, but although it's human nature for some, it doesn't mean you don't take it seriously and stop trying. I was blinded beforeI posted, and I feel ignorant. But thanks to all of you who try your hardest to keep the game clean.

Godlendragon, vonawesome, darthjt, queenlybluebean, and all others who have protected the game, you deserve a huge thanks. It's so good to know of people like you who are there in the game to help others in need.
One step closer to a world peace in the future?
Perhaps now i'm going too far.
I'm just overjoyed, with everyone!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Survivor
Feb 08, 2009
42
isaiahcrabbe159357 wrote:
I've been in the commons and people would pretend to be new players and come to people (even me) and start saying stuff like "your a noob!" or "your so weak", "I can beat you with one hit!". I dont let this bother me but it may bother others... Before two guys came up to me and started calling me a noob, and honestly i like being called a noob XD.... Not sure why? :P But anyway i went along with it and started to say "yeah i'm a noob! :D" and they kept saying it and i kept agreeing. Then one of them said alright lets stop now and they put on regular gear and left to a different realm to do it to someone else.


You like being called a noob too! Haha lol

I have a lvl 80. And while its cool with all the bragging rights of being an archmage, I then felt the bizzare need to be a noob. Then I went all crazy and made several noob characters :D most of which are in KT at the moment, however, one just made it to mooshu (How exciting :D) I love being a noob :)

Keira Silverthief- Myth lvl 80

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
azont wrote:
isaiahcrabbe159357 wrote:
I've been in the commons and people would pretend to be new players and come to people (even me) and start saying stuff like "your a noob!" or "your so weak", "I can beat you with one hit!". I dont let this bother me but it may bother others... Before two guys came up to me and started calling me a noob, and honestly i like being called a noob XD.... Not sure why? :P But anyway i went along with it and started to say "yeah i'm a noob! :D" and they kept saying it and i kept agreeing. Then one of them said alright lets stop now and they put on regular gear and left to a different realm to do it to someone else.


You like being called a noob too! Haha lol

I have a lvl 80. And while its cool with all the bragging rights of being an archmage, I then felt the bizzare need to be a noob. Then I went all crazy and made several noob characters :D most of which are in KT at the moment, however, one just made it to mooshu (How exciting :D) I love being a noob :)

Keira Silverthief- Myth lvl 80


I love being a noob! My wizards are all over the map~ lowest-level one on this account is level 15, and she's in KT, but I have about 4 alts worth of noobs, and I love it!

I love being an archmage, except when I have to hit the Bazaar or something; I've had to turn friend-requests off, to keep people from spamming me or sending group requests (I have a spiffy Hydra mount, you see). Things are so much simpler at the lower levels!

@Hunteray09~ we're glad you appreciate our efforts. We hope you come back to the game sometime!

-"El Veeb"/vonawesome
a WC protector, archmage noob of awesomeness :)

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I response to the OP’s question at the beginning of this thread, I would say yes, this “protecting” has gone too far. Not because its motivations and goals are poor, but rather because simply standing around reporting kids, and getting (false-) counter-reported in retaliation solves nothing. It addresses a symptom, but teaches no lessons. I have spent an hour or so in the later evenings at the dye shop, mostly observing (except for one night, which I will address shortly). What I saw was a bunch of kids acting out and “performing” for the observing adults, adults handing out “warnings” and then reports, and then kids acting out even more in response. It had the feel of a daycare center.

Now let me tell you about Friday night, which was different. Some of you may have been there—I was on my Storm, Abigail Wildsong. There was a young rebel-without-a-cause there, in a rabbit suit (yeah, this was sort of funny). He was pretty foul-mouthed, but obviously enjoying all the attention from adults. I am pretty sure some of the “protectors” were reporting him, but he didn’t care. At all. This seemed to increase the thrill of it for him. Then, the four or five of us who were adults simply took over the discussion. We talked about Malistaire, and whether he deserved a sequel (we decided he does). We talked about snacks, and the pleasures of words like “umbrage.” I asked this young Lothario why he was in a virtual dye shop on a Friday night, since he claimed to be such a hit with the ladies. We had the place cleaned out in like 40 minutes, and it was kind of fun. We modeled adult discusssion for him. He may not have gotten the point right then, but I think we planted a seed or two. No reporting necessary.

Last thing, for Dragonlad. I am sorry that no one wanted to listen to you, and that the adults were dismissive. I'm sorry for some of the angry and unkind replies here, too. Adults are not always right, and their motives not always pure. But it is always right to—as your dad said—stand behind your opinions. Try not to be scared—a couple of people here, at least, gave you credit for your honesty and courage. I wish more had, but that’s the way it is on these forums.

As for speaking in public: I advise practicing in front of a mirror. Lay out your argument calmly, anticipate objections. Oh, and don’t try to talk sense in the dye shop. No one there is really interested in a debate. :( The kids seem to confuse immature acting out with dissent, and many of the adults don’t know the difference between intimidation and teaching good behavior. Try the school debate club instead. You’ll get a better audience, and much better feedback. Thanks for coming forward, and trying to do better than your first try. That counts for a lot.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
tabby714 wrote:
Now let me tell you about Friday night, which was different. Some of you may have been there—I was on my Storm, Abigail Wildsong. There was a young rebel-without-a-cause there, in a rabbit suit (yeah, this was sort of funny). He was pretty foul-mouthed, but obviously enjoying all the attention from adults. I am pretty sure some of the “protectors” were reporting him, but he didn’t care. At all. This seemed to increase the thrill of it for him. Then, the four or five of us who were adults simply took over the discussion. We talked about Malistaire, and whether he deserved a sequel (we decided he does). We talked about snacks, and the pleasures of words like “umbrage.” I asked this young Lothario why he was in a virtual dye shop on a Friday night, since he claimed to be such a hit with the ladies. We had the place cleaned out in like 40 minutes, and it was kind of fun. We modeled adult discusssion for him. He may not have gotten the point right then, but I think we planted a seed or two. No reporting necessary.


I was there on my Balance wiz~ I popped in near the end, and shifted the convo towards fish-paste cookies and a fondness for the word "umbrage" (except that it sounds like Umbridge, that awful woman from Harry Potter~ I'll feed her to Mr. Fluffy/the dragon titan, right along with the fish paste!).

And yes, Malistaire deserves a sequel. That said, I don't think he's happy with me right now, since I kinda called him a girl and left the fish-paste cookies where I knew Mr. Fluffy would drool on them... Yeah, that was messy. Apologies to qbb and Sir Perry the War Ostrich, who ultimately ended up with the leftovers...

tabby714 wrote:
Last thing, for Dragonlad. I am sorry that no one wanted to listen to you, and that the adults were dismissive. I'm sorry for some of the angry and unkind replies here, too. Adults are not always right, and their motives not always pure. But it is always right to—as your dad said—stand behind your opinions. Try not to be scared—a couple of people here, at least, gave you credit for your honesty and courage. I wish more had, but that’s the way it is on these forums.


It's true that adults aren't always right~ in fact, I'm not that much older than most of the people I've reported. But this isn't an adults-vs-kids issue~ we should all be banding together to clean up the game we ALL love and share.

I met the nicest little girl in the world today, whilst searching for my Cold Iron Warrior badge in Avalon. She had open chat, and was so lovely and polite~ not once did she abuse it. Kids like her don't deserve to have their chat privileges taken away, because a few people can't control themselves, and I hate to think that someone so sweet and considerate could be a victim of the harassment I see in the dye-shop.

I like kids (I'm an aunt to 4 little ones) and certainly don't mind sharing space with them, if they are respectful and polite. Same goes for "responsible" adults~ if you can't control yourself, then don't even look at me.

El Veeb/Shadowsong/vonawesome

a WC protector, archmage noob of awesomeness, shameless Drake fan-girl, and bringer of doom & fish paste, who's only an adult on paper. :P

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I was there on my Balance wiz~ I popped in near the end, and shifted the convo towards fish-paste cookies and a fondness for the word "umbrage" (except that it sounds like Umbridge, that awful woman from Harry Potter~ I'll feed her to Mr. Fluffy/the dragon titan, right along with the fish paste!).

Ha! Well, there you go. I remember you standing a little to the side, and had you pegged for an adult with an impressive vocabulary--I was right about the second, but, as you point out below, not the first. If every young person (and adult, for that matter) acted like you, I guess we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because there wouldn't be a problem at all. That just goes to show that we (I) shouldn't make judgments about people's age based on behavior. Adults can act like immature kids, and kids/teens can act like mature, responsible folks too.

It's true that adults aren't always right~ in fact, I'm not that much older than most of the people I've reported. But this isn't an adults-vs-kids issue~ we should all be banding together to clean up the game we ALL love and share.

We should. I guess my point, aside from protecting a kid I felt was mistreated somewhat here on this thread, was that kids learn by emulation, not just punishment. I am a teacher, so I have to be optimistic about young people. I think many of these "offenders" come from homes where they just never see or hear a mature conversation. I really do feel that adults just standing around reporting, without actually engaging with them, exacerbates their feeling of "us against them." I am certainly for a "cleaner" game. And always for teaching kids better vocabulary. But I am, mostly, in favor of discussion, of modeling good behavior, and of teaching before simply punishing.

Thanks for your input, and for the fun in-game exchanges. But next time, no fish paste cookies. Ugh. :)

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
tabby714 wrote:
Ha! Well, there you go. I remember you standing a little to the side, and had you pegged for an adult with an impressive vocabulary--I was right about the second, but, as you point out below, not the first. If every young person (and adult, for that matter) acted like you, I guess we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because there wouldn't be a problem at all. That just goes to show that we (I) shouldn't make judgments about people's age based on behavior. Adults can act like immature kids, and kids/teens can act like mature, responsible folks too.


Nah, you were right about the first, too I am an 20something adult, but only on paper~ I'm one of the younger WCPs, so I probably couldn't be a parent to any of these kids, though I could pass as an aunt or older sister.

tabby714 wrote:
We should. I guess my point, aside from protecting a kid I felt was mistreated somewhat here on this thread, was that kids learn by emulation, not just punishment. I am a teacher, so I have to be optimistic about young people. I think many of these "offenders" come from homes where they just never see or hear a mature conversation. I really do feel that adults just standing around reporting, without actually engaging with them, exacerbates their feeling of "us against them." I am certainly for a "cleaner" game. And always for teaching kids better vocabulary. But I am, mostly, in favor of discussion, of modeling good behavior, and of teaching before simply punishing.


You have a point here, Tabby. Perhaps it's my upbringing getting in the way, but it makes me angry when kids talk to me (and the others) disrespectfully~ if I ever spoke to my parents like some of these little angels talk to us, I'd have been spanked, grounded, and sent to my room without dinner... but not before Dad washed my mouth out with soap.

So, if I see someone giving profanity-laden lip to any of my friends (because I do consider my fellow WCPs to be my friends), or anyone else, my first instinct is to report it~ I resist the urge to rage at them, because they're clearly putting on a show and there's no sense stoking the fire.

That said, I go there to dye my clothes, change pet names, and chat with people. I like hanging out with my friends, and making new ones, but won't hesitate to report someone if s/he is clearly out of line. I think of the little girl I quested with the other day, and how sweet she was... if she ever became a victim of harassment, like I've seen in the dye-shop, I'd be heartbroken for her; to do such awful things to a child is to destroy her belief that the world is good.

tabby714 wrote:
Thanks for your input, and for the fun in-game exchanges. But next time, no fish paste cookies. Ugh. :)


Are you sure? I have more, where those came from... Aw, fine. No more fish-paste cookies. But thank you for the fun conversation, and your input~ hearing a different perspective can be somewhat refreshing. ;)

~Laura/Veebz

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Hunteray09,

I agree with you completely on this and for a number
of reasons at multiple levels.

I would like to start this with, I am only home for a few
days (5 days total), so any replies to me should be quick. I will not be
back on until the Christmas Holiday, if I decide to do so
at that time. This particular issue struck a cord, and I
decided to give my thoughts.

To start with, I disagree with Puppet teams, and I disagree
with foul language use in the game. However, even though I
don't like puppet teams, it did not break KI's rules.
They have finally decided to fix it, so now it's a non-issue.

The foul language does break the rules, and getting around
the filters is easy to do. This should be something that
KI handles and corrects (it is their program to control).

First and foremost, I disagree with the formation of any
Vigilance committee. Vigilante's always cause more harm
than they do good, imo. I believe that history also
proves my point very, very well.
Just as with "The Knights that Say Ni", they have a
following that is, at times, out of control.
Their followers get to the point of being just as bad as
anyone that is abusing the system. It follows suit, that
the same problem would show up with the Wizard City group.

To add to that, I see the "Knights that say Ni" as a different
form of a Puppet team. You have a highly xp team, fighting
groups with limited or no xp, not real fair. Same as a
Warlord that starts a new Wizard, with the best gear he/she
can get from his other wizards. Not fair, but it doesn't break
the rules at all.
This well prepared private cleans up pvp battle after
battle.
Again, there are no ethics or Morals added in here,
the rules that KI make are what control the game, nothing more.

Getting back to the WC group, Why do I say they are an problem,
because it is fact, based on both of my younger brother's input
and the input of others. The WC group has generate more hate in the
game and more conflict than any disagreement over a op spell.

The reporting has gone to an extreme, and people are just
jumping on the band-wagon, to be part of the witch hunt, which
this has become. It is for this reason that I completely
disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee.

Second, it's a great thing that parents are trying to
protect their kids from this type of language. In reality,
it's futile, as they will hear far more than what is stated
in this game on the Bus and in school. Anyone that is in
school knows this, but maybe not the older people. Any parent
or old person that counters this remark has extreme blinders
on for sure.

I guess that I also don't understand why parents don't look
at the web sites that show all of the "Family Friendly
playing tips". Also, the Web sites that have "PVP for
Parents: chat safety". This would go a long way in helping
you solve your issue. Plus stop all this wasted time
waiting for someone to use certain language so you can
report them.

My Dad says that what kids do and say today, would have
never happen when he was a kid. Hence, maybe that's the problem,
old people don't understand the new generation of kids and
don't like it. My Grandfather didn't like the Hippies,
and still picks on them when he see's one. Why after all
the years have gone by, who knows.
This entire issue clearly links to one of my AP courses and the
Social issue we are currently facing. Not something that
I will discuss in this posting.

Third, I can bearly remember my Mom, but I do remember
one thing she said, that has always stuck with me...
"The only reason someone swears, is that they are too
ignorant to use a more sophisticated and intelligent blend
of words". (She was a School Teacher btw).

Anyone in the Spiral, when listing to words that offend them,
can simply state this and belittle that person. Maybe it will
make the person, and the people around have a new point
of view. Changing a person point of view is usually very
hard, but maybe not when it's clearly explained from this
point of view.
In the end, if it gets out of control, then and only then
should you report them.

I have many other things I would like to state on this, but
this would get excessive, and get too hard to digest in one
reading.

So anyway Hunteray09, you got my backing on this one.

Joe.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Joe all I can say is the Spiral is a much nicer place since the WCP was formed. KI has done their part very well too. I see so much less of the horribly disgusting behaviors, racial slurs, talk of felony assaults and swearing, I am pleased.

The talk of Spiral is more mutes (everything from short term to 10 years) being handed out. There is also lots of chatter about accounts being banned and wizards are worrying about perma-bans. They are getting the message. People are learning there are rules and they need to follow them or suffer the consequences. A valuable life lesson in socially acceptable behavior is in there too. KI's actions support our efforts to help them.

I am very careful when I report. I also am tickled pink I don't need to report near as often. It took many people coming together and doing a filth filled job to bring about this change. I can actually play the game again.

Megan Frostriver WCP

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2219
Lion359 wrote:
Hunteray09,

I agree with you completely on this and for a number
of reasons at multiple levels.

I disagree with foul language use in the game.

The foul language does break the rules, and getting around
the filters is easy to do. This should be something that
KI handles and corrects (it is their program to control).


First and foremost, I disagree with the formation of any
Vigilance committee. Vigilante's always cause more harm
than they do good, imo.

Again, there are no ethics or Morals added in here,
the rules that KI make are what control the game, nothing more.

Getting back to the WC group, Why do I say they are an problem,
because it is fact, based on both of my younger brother's input
and the input of others. The WC group has generate more hate in the
game and more conflict than any disagreement over a op spell.


The reporting has gone to an extreme, and people are just
jumping on the band-wagon, to be part of the witch hunt, which
this has become. It is for this reason that I completely
disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee.


Second, it's a great thing that parents are trying to
protect their kids from this type of language. In reality,
it's futile, as they will hear far more than what is stated
in this game on the Bus and in school. Anyone that is in
school knows this, but maybe not the older people. Any parent
or old person that counters this remark has extreme blinders
on for sure.


I guess that I also don't understand why parents don't look
at the web sites that show all of the "Family Friendly
playing tips". Also, the Web sites that have "PVP for
Parents: chat safety". This would go a long way in helping
you solve your issue. Plus stop all this wasted time
waiting for someone to use certain language so you can
report them.


My Dad says that what kids do and say today, would have
never happen when he was a kid.
Hence, maybe that's the problem,
old people don't understand the new generation of kids and
don't like it.


Third, I can bearly remember my Mom, but I do remember
one thing she said, that has always stuck with me...
"The only reason someone swears, is that they are too
ignorant to use a more sophisticated and intelligent blend
of words".
(She was a School Teacher btw).

Anyone in the Spiral, when listing to words that offend them,
can simply state this and belittle that person.
Maybe it will
make the person, and the people around have a new point
of view.
Changing a person point of view is usually very
hard, but maybe not when it's clearly explained from this
point of view.

In the end, if it gets out of control, then and only then
should you report them.


So anyway Hunteray09, you got my backing on this one.

Joe.


Ok, Joe, as you can see, I have edited quite a bit out of your post and mainly because this has nothing to do with Puppet Teams.

That said, YOU may also want to read Hunteray's last post to this topic. I think you will find that he has had a little change of heart about what we do.

Yes, foul language does go against the ToU/Chat rules of this game. KI did do something when they gave us the REPORT button. It is up to the WIZARDING COMMUNITY, to report the abusive language or actions such as bullying/harrassing other players. KI can not put Staff in the game on a 24/7 basis that some think they should. They do however occasionally do have Staff members in the game and that could also explain some of the perma-bans that we have been seeing. Or it may not. The point is, that if the offenders are not reported, KI can do very little in passing sanctions.

The "Wizard City Protectors" are not a vigilante group. We are a group of concerned Parents, Grand Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers and Sisters that have said we have had enough. WE DO NOT generate hate. That is generated by those that get reported for their language and behavior in the game. Yes, by starting this group, there are many more players that have also joined in the clean up even though the majority do not belong to our group. Our group consists of less that 100 players. Compared to some other social groups/clans, we are rather small, but we have made our VOICE heard. KI has been very hard at work reading the reports and chat logs since we started this As Megan has already stated, there has been considerable change in what we do hear and see in the game. We are not finished and this will never be allowed to happen again as long as there are players like us that want a CLEAN environment for our families.

Responsible Parents do read the safety tips. BUT, and this has been stated many times already. Some of the young players of this game also have a parent in the MILITARY. Those parents do allow their kids to have open chat so that when they get the chance to play this game (and yes, there are a lot of Military personnel that do play with their kids) with that absent parent, they have the chance to really chat. So, I don't really think too many players have a problem with that.

Your mother was quiet correct. And this has been explained on many occasions in the game and sometimes we may get one or two that actually understand that. But more often than not, those more aggressive offenders just escalate their language and behavior.

I am however afraid your dad is a little off base. I am old enough to remember how kids have acted in the past and compared to today's generation, those from my generation KNEW better than to get caught. A large portion of today's generation DON'T CARE. And Yes, I am old enough to truthfully say that. Let's put it this way without giving my actual age. I am 60+.(Mods may edit if needed)

However you choose to think of the "Wizard City Protectors" is up to you. We know why we do this and we have no intentions of giving this game back to those that choose to break the rules and make other players feel uncomfortable.

Fallon WinterLeaf a "Wizard City Protector"

Squire
Jun 19, 2009
514
mom2mykidzcrcj wrote:
Joe all I can say is the Spiral is a much nicer place since the WCP was formed. KI has done their part very well too. I see so much less of the horribly disgusting behaviors, racial slurs, talk of felony assaults and swearing, I am pleased.

The talk of Spiral is more mutes (everything from short term to 10 years) being handed out. There is also lots of chatter about accounts being banned and wizards are worrying about perma-bans. They are getting the message. People are learning there are rules and they need to follow them or suffer the consequences. A valuable life lesson in socially acceptable behavior is in there too. KI's actions support our efforts to help them.

I am very careful when I report. I also am tickled pink I don't need to report near as often. It took many people coming together and doing a filth filled job to bring about this change. I can actually play the game again.

Megan Frostriver WCP


I'm back again (big surprise eh?).

My sub is still running, for some reason, but yes I no longer play nor pay and am happy that way. Ever since WCP came, I have felt non stop annoyance. I am being rude I know, but I have to say this. They make the game a little better but it's human nature. They take it too seriously and make the gae a lot less enjoyable. Me being a mature teenager do not take part in bad behavior but cannot express how annoying it is to see people only talk about this topic. THIS IS A GAME. NOT FACEBOOK. Every game has it's bad players. You have affected the game entirely. I am sorry for my rudeness. No one even plays the game anymore. When I ask for help, most people are talking in the commons or at houses, and it is so hard to level up now a days since people never do anymore quests. Have you seen how empty celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon can be? What about Marleybone and Mooshu? Becuase this game has become Facebook. I won't join Pirate101 because I know the players from here will go there too and everything will start over again. Not to mention Kingsisle will probably open a crowns shop on Pirate101 and that will lead us to the same problem as Crownsisle. The game is messed up now.

I'm sorry for rudeness and not my usual more formal typing but I am in a hurry.

Mastermind
Dec 11, 2011
333
hunteray09 wrote:
mom2mykidzcrcj wrote:
Joe all I can say is the Spiral is a much nicer place since the WCP was formed. KI has done their part very well too. I see so much less of the horribly disgusting behaviors, racial slurs, talk of felony assaults and swearing, I am pleased.

The talk of Spiral is more mutes (everything from short term to 10 years) being handed out. There is also lots of chatter about accounts being banned and wizards are worrying about perma-bans. They are getting the message. People are learning there are rules and they need to follow them or suffer the consequences. A valuable life lesson in socially acceptable behavior is in there too. KI's actions support our efforts to help them.

I am very careful when I report. I also am tickled pink I don't need to report near as often. It took many people coming together and doing a filth filled job to bring about this change. I can actually play the game again.

Megan Frostriver WCP


I'm back again (big surprise eh?).

My sub is still running, for some reason, but yes I no longer play nor pay and am happy that way. Ever since WCP came, I have felt non stop annoyance. I am being rude I know, but I have to say this. They make the game a little better but it's human nature. They take it too seriously and make the gae a lot less enjoyable. Me being a mature teenager do not take part in bad behavior but cannot express how annoying it is to see people only talk about this topic. THIS IS A GAME. NOT FACEBOOK. Every game has it's bad players. You have affected the game entirely. I am sorry for my rudeness. No one even plays the game anymore. When I ask for help, most people are talking in the commons or at houses, and it is so hard to level up now a days since people never do anymore quests. Have you seen how empty celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon can be? What about Marleybone and Mooshu? Becuase this game has become Facebook. I won't join Pirate101 because I know the players from here will go there too and everything will start over again. Not to mention Kingsisle will probably open a crowns shop on Pirate101 and that will lead us to the same problem as Crownsisle. The game is messed up now.

I'm sorry for rudeness and not my usual more formal typing but I am in a hurry.


I agree with everything on here. The game has turned into a Facebook. And I doubt I will be joining Pirates as well. 100% agreed everything here.

-Gtafreak101

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Goldendragon18,

"The "Wizard City Protectors" are not a vigilante group. We are a group of concerned Parents, Grand Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers and Sisters that have said we have had enough. WE DO NOT generate hate."

I completely disagree, you are clearly and without question a Vigilante group.
The group itself may not generate hate, but they have generated hate in the younger groups that play this game.
My Dad is no where at old as you, and with him being a different generation, maybe that's why you see things differently. Who knows, that's for you and him to discuss, not me.
You may not like what I posted, but I see it as it is. Older people may not,
but then just like Hunterray09 is trying to tell you in his last post, it does generate an issue.
Now you may well have shut down this type of chat in certain areas, but it will still go on in other areas. You will just drive it underground, until some whiner complains again. Then the Vigilante group will go after that area with their witch hunt. All Vigilante groups are bad, as old as you are you should know that.

To Hunterray09,

Thanks for the last post, you have posted perfectly the way both my brothers feel about the Vigilantes.

To mom2mykidzcrcj,

It's not you or people like you that I am complaining about, but once a Vigilante group starts, it always generates more and more problems.
I respect those that are trying to clean up the terms used, but after all, it's a game with kids. The filters are in place to stop the younger kids from seeing this type of abuse. How can the under 18 years even see this stuff if the filters in place.? Bottom line, Hunterrays09 last post says a lot, if you can read into it. This game was not designed just for adults, but really more for us.

Joe.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
Lion359 writes: Getting back to the WC group, Why do I say they are an problem, because it is fact, based on both of my younger brother's input
and the input of others. The WC group has generate more hate in the
game and more conflict than any disagreement over a op spell.


Many of the kids complain and say things, because they can't do what they want to do in the game, which is break the rules without consequences. We aren't the ones generating hate, it's the offenders that create it themselves, because they don't care about anyone but themselves, and when someone steps up and says "we're not going to take it any more", it's always against the person or persons taking action by reporting the rule breakers.

Lion359 writes: The reporting has gone to an extreme, and people are just jumping on the band-wagon, to be part of the witch hunt, which this has become. It is for this reason that I completely disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee.

The reporting has not gone to an extreme. The offenders are the ones who are extreme in their behavior. Just because some of us jumped in to do reporting, which KI gives us the tools to do so, doesn't mean we're a vigilante group. Because of our publicity, others in the game are reporting more frequently. Before, people were scared to report, because of the possible backlash from the offenders. No ones on a witch hunt. We just expect people who break the rules to take responsibility for their actions.

Lion359 writes: ..... old people don't understand the new generation of kids and don't like it.

The new generation of kids? You mean, the "I want it now" generation? The generation that has no respect for others, or their community, or their parents, or for the rules of the game? Sure, us "old people" don't like it. Who wouldn't? I will say, there are new generation kids that I know that can't stand the way the others in their generation behave.

hunteray09 writes: Ever since WCP came, I have felt non stop annoyance. I am being rude I know, but I have to say this. They make the game a little better but it's human nature. They take it too seriously and make the gae a lot less enjoyable. Me being a mature teenager do not take part in bad behavior but cannot express how annoying it is to see people only talk about this topic. THIS IS A GAME. NOT FACEBOOK. Every game has it's bad players. You have affected the game entirely. I am sorry for my rudeness. No one even plays the game anymore. When I ask for help, most people are talking in the commons or at houses, and it is so hard to level up now a days since people never do anymore quests. Have you seen how empty celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon can be? What about Marleybone and Mooshu? Becuase this game has become Facebook.

Is the annoyance because of us? How is it we are annoying? Because we report? The ones who are annoying are the ones that bully, swear, say racist remarks, enact inappropriate sexual behavior, and other bad behavior that does not belong in the game. It is THEIR problem, not ours.

If "no one plays the game anymore", it's because of themselves, not the WCP. Socializing has become the norm (long before the WCP), by hanging out in locations in the Spiral with their online wizard friends. The only thing we've affected in the game .... is making it 'clean and safe for everyone'.

Yeah, every game has it's bad players, however, we're taking a stand in THIS game. We want the game to keep its E10 rating. We want it safe for everyone. The bad behavior has gone on too long, and it's time these abusers take responsibility for their own actions.

I can't tell you how many times I hear "I was muted by the reporters, and I did nothing wrong". The WCP does NOT mute anyone. KI does. KI looks at the chat logs and determines what sanctions take place. If someone was muted or banned, they did something wrong. They broke the rules. Period. They need to stop blaming everyone else, but themselves.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2219
Lion359 wrote:
Goldendragon18,

"The "Wizard City Protectors" are not a vigilante group. We are a group of concerned Parents, Grand Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers and Sisters that have said we have had enough. WE DO NOT generate hate."

I completely disagree, you are clearly and without question a Vigilante group.
The group itself may not generate hate, but they have generated hate in the younger groups that play this game.

You are entitled to your opinion just the same as we are. You can call us whatever you wish but in reality, we are actually helping KI with a little "House Cleaning". As for WCP generating HATE, not hardly. That is done by those that have chosen to break the rules and the hate that has been generated is against those of us that have said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

You may not like what I posted, but I see it as it is. Older people may not,
but then just like Hunterray09 is trying to tell you in his last post, it does generate an issue.

Frankly, you and many others are turning a blind eye to what is reallly happening in the game and choose not to see the truth.

Now you may well have shut down this type of chat in certain areas, but it will still go on in other areas. You will just drive it underground, until some whiner complains again. Then the Vigilante group will go after that area with their witch hunt. All Vigilante groups are bad, as old as you are you should know that.

[b]We are well aware of this going on in other areas of the game and we have started spreading out to "Clean House" in those areas too. Incase you are not aware of what "Vigilante" means, I will give you a little lesson here. It means taking the LAW into your own hands. There is a big difference in that and what we have chosen to do. We have chosen to USE THE TOOLS KI gave ALL members instead of letting them sit in the attic collecting dust.

To Hunterray09,

Thanks for the last post, you have posted perfectly the way both my brothers feel about the Vigilantes.

It seems that Hunteray is contradicting himself from one post to another. In his previous post he says one thing then turns around and says something else in the next. Not consistant.

To mom2mykidzcrcj,

It's not you or people like you that I am complaining about, but once a Vigilante group starts, it always generates more and more problems.
respect those that are trying to clean up the terms used, but after all, it's a game with kids. The filters are in place to stop the younger kids from seeing this type of abuse. How can the under 18 years even see this stuff if the filters in place.? Bottom line, Hunterrays09 last post says a lot, if you can read into it. This game was not designed just for adults, but really more for us.
[

b]Here you seem to contradict yourself. You tell her that it is not her or people like her that you are complaining about, when in reality that is exactly what you are doing. If you respected those of us that are trying to clean up the game for the younger players, you certainly would not be calling us "Vigilante". Yes, filters are in place and, unfortunately, many have found ways to go around them. Under 18? You might be surprised at how many will LIE about their age to get what they should not have. Even in filtered chat, there are ways that words can be made clear enought to be understood.

Yes, this is a KID/FAMILY game. That means there are players from all age groups and from MANY walks of life. But the Terms of Use are there for a reason and that does not give anyone the right to abuse others in the game. You have mentioned your brothers, is it possible that one of them has been reported and this has made them angry? (no, I do not want to know) Just something you might want to think about.

The whole point is Joe, that KI set RULES for this game and those include NO harassment, bullying, foul language and a few other issues. The ToU also states that if YOU DO NOT agree with those terms then it is advised you use NO PART of the SITE OR GAME.

Vigilantes? NO. House Cleaning? Yes.


Joe.


Reply in bold.

to Mods, If anything I have stated is not allowed, please edit.


Hero
Jan 24, 2010
705
Lion359 wrote:
To Hunterray09,

Thanks for the last post, you have posted perfectly the way both my brothers feel about the Vigilantes.

Joe.


Hi again, Joe,

Why are your brothers even affected by these so-called "vigilantes", if they don't break the terms of use?

It seems to me that the only wizards concerned about the presence of WC Protectors and other similar groups are those wizards who know they use foul language and/or engage in inappropriate behavior in the Spiral. They have been left too long with the assumption that there are no rules or consequences for poor behavior, and they have done what youth do when unsupervised. They have pushed the boundaries of acceptable public behavior.

My children are not concerned about being reported or muted, as they follow the terms of use. They also know how to report wizards who do break the rules.

To say that W101 is primarily for youth is partially correct; however, the game is marketed as a game for families to play together. My position is that we should all default to the polite behavior required in other public places. We DO have basic requirements for public speech in American society. We all know how we are supposed to behave in the company of children, parents, and grandparents.

Heck, Joe, I have seen some simulated behaviors in the Spiral that would land a person in jail IRL. How is eliminating that sort of behavior "vigilantism"?

Btw, "Vigilante behavior" is defined as behavior that involves verbal and physical violence, as well as destruction of property and murder of other people. Why would someone define the Wizard City Protectors as such?

IMHO, if KI didn't appreciate the work of the WC Protectors and similar groups, they would shut those groups down. If KI didn't value the deluge of reports, they would sanction those wizards who report. If KI didn't want the community to moderate the game, they would remove the report button. If there weren't rules in the Spiral, KI would not have published the ToU.

Warmest Regards,

Qbb