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A word about teamwork

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
When you're with a team, generally speaking, I feel like there isn't much attention being paid to each player's strengths and needs. There are 8 positions in a duel circle ( ), but people seem to pay too much attention to the one they occupy, at the exclusion of others. I think this leads to problems in the game, and I wanted to write this note out to clue people in. Some people get defensive when I talk about this, acting like I'm trying to tell them how to play. Not really, I'm just saying people don't pay attention until it's made obvious that they need to, and that has real costs like losing or not having fun. Some examples:
  • If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

  • If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

  • If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.
Big problems out there with players not sharing or looking out for each other. It makes the Spiral feel less fun and more like you can't really trust anyone, and I know that just isn't true. There are trustworthy, thoughtful players everywhere--they just don't play like it very often, and that's really the only way you'd ever know. When I'm with a group and it seems like they're receptive, I suggest ways to improve this. Share blades. Share traps. Share shields. Share heals. If an enemy can be stunned, stun them. And so on. (If they seem weirdly hateful, I say nothing and occasionally leave the group because it's a drain on me.)

And then people usually ask me, what gives you the right to tell me how to play? Yeah, I get it, a lot of times when someone comes up and tells you a "better" way, people get defensive. How do I know better than you, right? Here's my point: if you only focus on yourself, you aren't thinking about those other characters at your side, your teammates. If you ignore them, they're going to die more quickly, and more importantly they're not going to like or trust each other. If that doesn't matter to you and you don't care what other people think, okay great--but why are you even reading this? If you nurture a good team, you are more likely to win, and you will make new friends who will watch your back.

I have a couple of groups I quest with regularly, and we have an excellent time of it playing this way. I wish everyone could have that experience. It really does add to the community of the game.

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
596
Teamwork is the way to go. Working together you can win any fight in the game in a few rounds, but some players insist on being selfish which makes it harder for everyone, even themselves. Others maybe want to cooperate but don't know how.

Defender
Aug 25, 2013
147
I love this post. I had to reply.

Because I admit, I used to be that guy that would help out everyone give away shields and blades, heal when needed, and then people would basically watch me die, and then when I had like 700 health left, would get mad at me for using scarecrow. Now this doesn't stop me from shielding people, whoever has the aggro tipped towards them (whoever the MOB is after) because that just seems like common sense but i almost never share my blades anymore. I worked hard on crafting gear and training a good pet to get my stats to a point where I feel like if there are other death players in the room, they should blade me. I'm not arrogant, it's just logical.

Overall, it takes a lot for me to trust people now and days. I only have 2 or 3 close friends, everyone else on my list is usually a random that I do Winterbane or Pagoda with. (I admit, I only added them because they were low enough level where me and friends could farm for some quick pet snacks on my storm) And when a random person joins my battle I do not converse with them the way I used to, I don't try to help them out save shielding them if they need it or if I simply don't (My passive life resist on my death is 63%, I understand like, why shield myself?) and I do my best to kill everything simply because I can't really trust anyone else to do it sometimes unless they indicate they wanna spam with me.

Great post, the selfish players out there are a plague that seem to infect others, and I have even changed as a result.

- The RavenCatcher

100967163

Delver
Mar 10, 2009
241
Well said. Many should read this and take heed. Kudos to those of you I have fought with that are always looking out for the team.

Champion
Aug 15, 2012
455
I completely agree with this.
Sarai Thunderstrider
Adept

Defender
Aug 11, 2013
111
I'd say if you're at 5000 hit points or better...you should be taking the 'tank' position. In other words first postion. Unless someone has higher resist than you. ran into that last night. I'm up at 5200 hit points but the guy with only 4800 had much higher resist. So we traded off back and forth while helping a mutual slightly lower level friend.

As to the comment about playing with storms and why would you blade yourself instead of them? Probably because they tend to fizzle [unless they've got really good gear on] even more than ME. I'll shield and heal them til the cows come home, that only makes sense because "phenomenal cosmic powers! itty bitty health bar" where storm is concerned. Quest groups are good I guess, I don't have one "group" I quest with regular. I've got friends who I'll go help out and quest with either because of irritation with one mine, boredom or because they come when I call for help and it's just a good idea to reciprocate. I just call for help from various friends or buy henchman when I'm about to do a nasty fight. Other than that I tend to quest alone.

Connor

Survivor
Aug 11, 2011
12
Finally, someone who isn't selfish and actually looks at the needs of the entire team.

James Iceglade, level 26

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
teamwork is extremely important, and since everybody plays their wizards differently, you need to decide ahead of time. i've done a bunch of Tower of helephant runs in a group Im in, and my fire wizard, with life mastery, has played the role of healer, packing nothing but healing spells. Nobody died either. I just packed my elemental resist gear and it worked out just fine. We've had lifers play tank, play healing, balance playing healer, ice being healer, etc. We figured this all out ahead of time it it worked EXTREMELY well. We then apply the same common sense to the regular game and we ALL make out like bandits

Squire
Jun 19, 2010
504
Paying a monthly subscription fee, I'm happy to team with anyone; but I'm here to play with my friends and family.

My friends and family are all hardcore, team-friendly players who've all been playing W101 since BETA; and over the years have played on both extremely effective, and not-so effective teams.

And afters years of playing on teams that have fought and beat challenging bosses and dungeons in 30-60 minutes or less; and also playing on teams where these same bosses and dungeons took hours to beat, or ended in failure...

...we all just prefer playing with prepared, team-friendly players; no matter what bosses or dungeons are faced.


Here's some of my favorite players to team with:
  • Uses wand attacks on every feint trap they see
  • Doesn't have enough hit points to survive any attacks, yet spends the entire battle furiously spamming "heal me," heal me," "HEAL ME..."
  • Refuses to flee, because no one on the team can heal them
  • Starts the battle without any health or mana
  • Will only attack after every pip is lit up, and they've exhausted their entire deck placing every blade and bonus to attack on themselves; while every trap on whatever the team is fighting
  • Spam begs you to help them; but they want you to join them in a solo only quest, dungeon, or higher level area than their current level or membership allows
And my all-time favorite player I love teaming with:

...Spam begs you to join them to fight a really hard boss, or enter a challenging, time-consuming dungeon; but then abandons the battle or dungeon half-way through


So what's your favorite kind of player to team with...

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2926
lucas, i greatly admire and respect your contributions to these boards. but i would like to touch on something you didn't mention.

if it's worth noting, i usually group up only with close friends, and we do not pigeonhole each other into school stereotypes. if my storm wizard needs healing and can do it herself, why wait for the life wizard to do it? if my life friend wants to go full-throttle fluffy on the enemies, then i will encourage her to do so. and, if my ice friend doesn't want to tank, or my balance friend wants to keep her blades, i won't force it on her.

remember those oxygen masks on airplanes, and how you're supposed to put your own mask on before assisting someone else? the same applies in-game: if you and a friend are both on the verge of defeat, you should always heal yourself first, so that you can better assist the others in your group. my friends and i have made sure that our wizards are all self-sustaining, so we look out for ourselves first and help the others later, if needed. it makes us more-efficient.

a lot of people confuse self-efficacy with selfishness when, in fact, it will make you a better teammate in the long run. being prepared and self-sufficient shows your friends that you respect their time and resources by not expecting them to carry you.

similarly, people equate sharing with giving all your stuff away~ if someone is hungry and you give them your lunch, you are now hungry; if you give him half of your sandwich, then neither one of you has to starve, and maybe he'll share his lunch with you tomorrow.

in-game examples: if you let your friend kill the boss this time, you can get the next one. or, if my death friend uses dark pact to give me a blade, i will heal him. it's a simple case of "you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours".

if your respect the people on your team, there's no good reason why everyone can't have their cake and eat it, too.

-von

Explorer
May 11, 2012
91
Lucas Rain on May 27, 2014 wrote:
When you're with a team, generally speaking, I feel like there isn't much attention being paid to each player's strengths and needs. There are 8 positions in a duel circle ( ), but people seem to pay too much attention to the one they occupy, at the exclusion of others. I think this leads to problems in the game, and I wanted to write this note out to clue people in. Some people get defensive when I talk about this, acting like I'm trying to tell them how to play. Not really, I'm just saying people don't pay attention until it's made obvious that they need to, and that has real costs like losing or not having fun. Some examples:
  • If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

  • If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

  • If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.
Big problems out there with players not sharing or looking out for each other. It makes the Spiral feel less fun and more like you can't really trust anyone, and I know that just isn't true. There are trustworthy, thoughtful players everywhere--they just don't play like it very often, and that's really the only way you'd ever know. When I'm with a group and it seems like they're receptive, I suggest ways to improve this. Share blades. Share traps. Share shields. Share heals. If an enemy can be stunned, stun them. And so on. (If they seem weirdly hateful, I say nothing and occasionally leave the group because it's a drain on me.)

And then people usually ask me, what gives you the right to tell me how to play? Yeah, I get it, a lot of times when someone comes up and tells you a "better" way, people get defensive. How do I know better than you, right? Here's my point: if you only focus on yourself, you aren't thinking about those other characters at your side, your teammates. If you ignore them, they're going to die more quickly, and more importantly they're not going to like or trust each other. If that doesn't matter to you and you don't care what other people think, okay great--but why are you even reading this? If you nurture a good team, you are more likely to win, and you will make new friends who will watch your back.

I have a couple of groups I quest with regularly, and we have an excellent time of it playing this way. I wish everyone could have that experience. It really does add to the community of the game.
I agree with your thought process. It reminds me of the saying: Give a person a fish, you have given them a meal. TEACH a person to fish, you have taught them a skill so that they can feed themselves (or something like that, lol). Some of my best battles have been fought with other wizards who were willing to share their knowledge with me. They taught me the value of working together for the good of the team, not just worrying who could show off with the biggest hit on the enemy. Now, I am not saying everybody is like that. There are those out there who just want you to play the battle their way, but if you find somebody who makes sense and is willing to help and teach, then put your listening ears on, because someday you will be in the role of teacher. And work together. Help each other out. That is what it is all about in the long run.

See you around the Spiral.

Autumn FairyDreamer Level 79

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
I personally take and want the game to be a lot less serious. I don't play the game to work out my mind but to relax it. Yes, I use strategy to play but with limits. I like to keep it simple.

I devoted the last wizard I took though the Spiral to just helping anyone. It was a very interesting time. Players are so diverse. The only thing in common was wanting to complete their quests. I cleared 3 menu chats though to the beginning of the recent new world. The end of Az was the worse but oddly no one was defeated or had to flee/return, not so when I went though with text enabled players.

I am an aggressive player, only there to defeat the monster. I spent time getting a Frankinbunny with Unicorn, Spell Proof and Spritely and it provided me with 2 healing cards for others. I trained Feint so I could stack that with the Jewel of Feint (lvl 50). I kept all my spells current and only trained out side spells that enhanced my school ones. I'm Ice, a hammer disguised as a Tank. I am not a farmer or upper level crafter so my gear stops at the crafted Wintertusk. I don't help with optional dungeons.

I stopped questing with this wizard and my friends list is starting to bare. I am hatching with as many as I can with my Enchanted Armor or Frainkinbunny pets to pass around the talents that I have managed to manifest, mainly Unicorn, Fairy Friend, Spritely, Healing Current and Spell Proof.

I am a solo wizard at heart. I enter each battle as if I was the only one there - this keeps my expectations very low on dependency of another player. My oldest wizard is Life. I learned how to heal and support a group. The entire point of a battle is to leave it undefeated and it doesn't matter how you get there. If you call me for help you are asking me to get it done so you can move on.

I don't plan on doing this with my new wizard but I did enjoy the interaction it gave me with so many people who play this game.

Mary and her gems

Mastermind
Jun 10, 2011
328
Lucas Rain on May 27, 2014 wrote:
When you're with a team, generally speaking, I feel like there isn't much attention being paid to each player's strengths and needs. There are 8 positions in a duel circle ( ), but people seem to pay too much attention to the one they occupy, at the exclusion of others. I think this leads to problems in the game, and I wanted to write this note out to clue people in. Some people get defensive when I talk about this, acting like I'm trying to tell them how to play. Not really, I'm just saying people don't pay attention until it's made obvious that they need to, and that has real costs like losing or not having fun. Some examples:
  • If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

  • If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

  • If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.
Big problems out there with players not sharing or looking out for each other. It makes the Spiral feel less fun and more like you can't really trust anyone, and I know that just isn't true. There are trustworthy, thoughtful players everywhere--they just don't play like it very often, and that's really the only way you'd ever know. When I'm with a group and it seems like they're receptive, I suggest ways to improve this. Share blades. Share traps. Share shields. Share heals. If an enemy can be stunned, stun them. And so on. (If they seem weirdly hateful, I say nothing and occasionally leave the group because it's a drain on me.)

And then people usually ask me, what gives you the right to tell me how to play? Yeah, I get it, a lot of times when someone comes up and tells you a "better" way, people get defensive. How do I know better than you, right? Here's my point: if you only focus on yourself, you aren't thinking about those other characters at your side, your teammates. If you ignore them, they're going to die more quickly, and more importantly they're not going to like or trust each other. If that doesn't matter to you and you don't care what other people think, okay great--but why are you even reading this? If you nurture a good team, you are more likely to win, and you will make new friends who will watch your back.

I have a couple of groups I quest with regularly, and we have an excellent time of it playing this way. I wish everyone could have that experience. It really does add to the community of the game.
If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

I'm Life, and generally speaking, it's never that way. If someone has low health, then I do too. It's general rule for me that a life should always shield him/herself so that if another teammate dies, the life is still alive to heal.

If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

Because, maybe they want to actually contribute something? And that's never the case. In Khrysalis, I always get a chance to hit before storm finishes off. Just because they're storm doesn't entitle them to everything. If they ask nicely, I'll give. Or I'll give if I know they will do it easily. But if it's a hard fight that I know they won't kill, then I'm contributing.

If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.

I'm trying to hit because I want to. If they have terrible defence, that's their problem. If I'm just doing a battle on the street trying to finish it quickly, then I will. They have their own heals they can use. If I'm in a boss fight, I will heal when they get really low. I refuse to keep healing them when they're only down by 100 or so hit points. No matter how much hate I generate, I heal when you need. That's final.

Just because someone isn't pouring their heart out on you doesn't mean they aren't helping you. The mere presence of being in the battle helps take some of the stress off of you. No, I'm not being defensive. I'm just saying that everyone should at least try to look out for themselves before they are completely dependent on another player.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
The Spiral Twister on May 30, 2014 wrote:
If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

I'm Life, and generally speaking, it's never that way. If someone has low health, then I do too. It's general rule for me that a life should always shield him/herself so that if another teammate dies, the life is still alive to heal.

If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

Because, maybe they want to actually contribute something? And that's never the case. In Khrysalis, I always get a chance to hit before storm finishes off. Just because they're storm doesn't entitle them to everything. If they ask nicely, I'll give. Or I'll give if I know they will do it easily. But if it's a hard fight that I know they won't kill, then I'm contributing.

If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.

I'm trying to hit because I want to. If they have terrible defence, that's their problem. If I'm just doing a battle on the street trying to finish it quickly, then I will. They have their own heals they can use. If I'm in a boss fight, I will heal when they get really low. I refuse to keep healing them when they're only down by 100 or so hit points. No matter how much hate I generate, I heal when you need. That's final.

Just because someone isn't pouring their heart out on you doesn't mean they aren't helping you. The mere presence of being in the battle helps take some of the stress off of you. No, I'm not being defensive. I'm just saying that everyone should at least try to look out for themselves before they are completely dependent on another player.
Nope, not talking about being dependent on anyone or pouring hearts out on anyone. Just talking about teamwork here, and how taking a stance that says "Me first" and "My agenda is the most important" has consequences like loss of trust in a team, and lack of fun all around. Seems like a lot of other posters agree, they don't appreciate teammates who consistently do that.

Survivor
Sep 21, 2011
21
The Spiral Twister on May 30, 2014 wrote:
If you have 5000/5000 health and your neighbor has 900/3000, why would you put shields on yourself? Oops, now your neighbor is dead and now you have to find a heal or make them port back in, which everyone loves to have to do. Share a shield, and none of that has to happen.

I'm Life, and generally speaking, it's never that way. If someone has low health, then I do too. It's general rule for me that a life should always shield him/herself so that if another teammate dies, the life is still alive to heal.

If you're with 3 very strong s in a boss fight, why would you blade yourself and try to hit? Ok now you have all your boosts ready, but oh, they finished the fight while you were still preparing. Pack shields and heals and share your blades.

Because, maybe they want to actually contribute something? And that's never the case. In Khrysalis, I always get a chance to hit before storm finishes off. Just because they're storm doesn't entitle them to everything. If they ask nicely, I'll give. Or I'll give if I know they will do it easily. But if it's a hard fight that I know they won't kill, then I'm contributing.

If you're and everyone on your team has terrible defense, why are you trying to hit? Great, you're making a stand that life doesn't have to just heal, but now everyone resents you because you're probably the best healer in the group. Heal when someone is getting the beat down.

I'm trying to hit because I want to. If they have terrible defence, that's their problem. If I'm just doing a battle on the street trying to finish it quickly, then I will. They have their own heals they can use. If I'm in a boss fight, I will heal when they get really low. I refuse to keep healing them when they're only down by 100 or so hit points. No matter how much hate I generate, I heal when you need. That's final.

Just because someone isn't pouring their heart out on you doesn't mean they aren't helping you. The mere presence of being in the battle helps take some of the stress off of you. No, I'm not being defensive. I'm just saying that everyone should at least try to look out for themselves before they are completely dependent on another player.
O. O He never said you have to heal your teammates anytime they lose health, he was saying it would be nice to heal your teammate if they have so little health there about to die.