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A Comment on the Condition of the Forums

AuthorMessage
Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
Hi. I'd like to point something out. I have seen a vast increase in people either claiming to quit or just complaining about something and wanting a solution. I'd like to review these problems and give my opinion on them.

"PvP is broken": This stems from the mindset that one school can be more powerful then the other. Ice may be able to Resist a lot of damage, but Storm can deal far more then them without Blades. Death might be able to Drain Health, but Life can Heal through a lot of the toughest Spells. It's the strategy, folks, not the school. And though going first can help influence a fight, skilled strategists can easily win going second. Going second even has it's own advantages, when you look hard enough. (Afternote: I also see the general dissappointment about Puppet Teams. I'm sure this will be fixed, Kingsisle already said they are working on changes. But be patient here people.)

"Too many Hoard Packs": Where, precisely, is it stated that you MUST spend money and buy these things? Mounts don't effect your performance in battle. Gear and Wands are good, but never mandatory, and no Gear, in my opinion, can beat the Waterworks set.

"Nothing to do at max level other then PvP": Before you talk about this on the Forums or in Game, think to yourself: "Wait, how did I get to max level?" The answer would be: Boss Battles, Quests, Dungeons, etc, etc, etc. You can always revist them. Some may drop rare items for you to collect!

"Storyline is getting worse": I find this hard to believe. It's even the same as Malistaire: An evil Wizard wants to conquer/destroy Spiral. It's up to you, the Wizard, the Champion of Ravenwood, to put an end to their doings! You must battle them and their henchmen across many worlds before you reach them! But, do you have what it takes to best this mighty foe?

Feedback, please?

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I believe the comments you are taking exception to are feedback, for KI. Certainly you may disagree, but you do realize that this thread is simply going to generate the same old arguments for and against that we have read here over and over. You see no problem, fine. Others see problems, fine too, since they are entitled to give feedback to the company that takes their money. (They are customers, this game is a product. Feedback is part of the deal.)

Not sure this thread can be more than a summary of the same old issues, though. Perhaps asking for innovative solutions, rather than simply saying "there are no problems" might be more useful.

In other words, simply stating, "everything is fine" won't change any minds. You'll get a chorus of people who say "yay, you agree with me!" and a chorus who say (in effect) "you just don't get it."

Etcetera.

Squire
Apr 11, 2010
575
Yeah, things are looking really hostile when people ask for changes. Threatening to quit, claiming that it's the end of the world because of one spell, etc.

If people must complain, please at least try to not scare everyone else on the forums with your threads T__T

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
tabby714 wrote:
I believe the comments you are taking exception to are feedback, for KI. Certainly you may disagree, but you do realize that this thread is simply going to generate the same old arguments for and against that we have read here over and over. You see no problem, fine. Others see problems, fine too, since they are entitled to give feedback to the company that takes their money. (They are customers, this game is a product. Feedback is part of the deal.)

Not sure this thread can be more than a summary of the same old issues, though. Perhaps asking for innovative solutions, rather than simply saying "there are no problems" might be more useful.

In other words, simply stating, "everything is fine" won't change any minds. You'll get a chorus of people who say "yay, you agree with me!" and a chorus who say (in effect) "you just don't get it."

Etcetera.
This was just me stating my personal view on the matter. I don't intend to get tremendous amounts of praise. In fact, one of the first thoughts I had while writing this was "I wonder how long it will take to get a ton of negative feedback?" Thanks for your post, and for taking the time to read my opinions.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2161
tabby714 wrote:
I believe the comments you are taking exception to are feedback, for KI. Certainly you may disagree, but you do realize that this thread is simply going to generate the same old arguments for and against that we have read here over and over. You see no problem, fine. Others see problems, fine too, since they are entitled to give feedback to the company that takes their money. (They are customers, this game is a product. Feedback is part of the deal.)

Not sure this thread can be more than a summary of the same old issues, though. Perhaps asking for innovative solutions, rather than simply saying "there are no problems" might be more useful.

In other words, simply stating, "everything is fine" won't change any minds. You'll get a chorus of people who say "yay, you agree with me!" and a chorus who say (in effect) "you just don't get it."

Etcetera.


Thank you Tabby714.

Everything is not fine. Ask the parents with kids on family accounts and they will tell you the same. For a game that is supposed to be rated E10+, it is no longer that.

Tabby is right. The same issues will keep coming up. There are problems that seriously need the attention of KI staff. The game is becoming HARDCORE. That is not my idea of a kids game.

Again, Tabby is right. Innovative solutions are needed and quickly. Start looking at the game from the point of view of a 10 year old.

The storyline has taken a turn that is more adult oriented. What happened to the kids? Look around CL, ZF and Avalon. You will not see near as many kids playing those worlds as we see in the WC arc. Those areas are not geared for the kids. Avalon especially is not for kids. A 10 yr old is going to take 8 years to complete these areas? I don't think so. They will quit playing first.

I have seen parents trying to speak out about the problems their 10, 11, 12 yr olds etc, are having with the game and NO one is listening.

PvP AND PvE are both broken. Spells should not have to be nerfed to accommodate PvP. There was a time when these things did not happen. Both were fairly well balanced. They aren't now. What is good for one, isn't for the other. Yes, strategy is needed in both areas, but even that is not working that well now.

Although I don't in general buy the hoard packs, it does seem that there are more of them than there should be. One pack per world if even that, but the contents need to be better thought out. I can understand what some parents are saying about this, but I also feel that it is up to the parents to make sure the child knows they may not get what they are after. This is only common sense to be applied in the real world as well.

There are problems and they do need to be fixed. You have to look at the game from all angles especially that of a child. If it is hardcore games that people want to play, there are plenty of those. But Wizard101 was the most unique Kid and family oriented game that has ever hit the internet. The fun and magic are gone. The fun and magic was what made the game not the grind of a second job that it is becoming a condition that the young players should not have to deal with at their age. They will have to face that grind as adults but not in a game.

Delver
Apr 10, 2010
292
bionaknight wrote:
Hi. I'd like to point something out. I have seen a vast increase in people either claiming to quit or just complaining about something and wanting a solution. I'd like to review these problems and give my opinion on them.

"PvP is broken": This stems from the mindset that one school can be more powerful then the other. Ice may be able to Resist a lot of damage, but Storm can deal far more then them without Blades. Death might be able to Drain Health, but Life can Heal through a lot of the toughest Spells. It's the strategy, folks, not the school. And though going first can help influence a fight, skilled strategists can easily win going second. Going second even has it's own advantages, when you look hard enough. (Afternote: I also see the general dissappointment about Puppet Teams. I'm sure this will be fixed, Kingsisle already said they are working on changes. But be patient here people.)

"Too many Hoard Packs": Where, precisely, is it stated that you MUST spend money and buy these things? Mounts don't effect your performance in battle. Gear and Wands are good, but never mandatory, and no Gear, in my opinion, can beat the Waterworks set.

"Nothing to do at max level other then PvP": Before you talk about this on the Forums or in Game, think to yourself: "Wait, how did I get to max level?" The answer would be: Boss Battles, Quests, Dungeons, etc, etc, etc. You can always revist them. Some may drop rare items for you to collect!

"Storyline is getting worse": I find this hard to believe. It's even the same as Malistaire: An evil Wizard wants to conquer/destroy Spiral. It's up to you, the Wizard, the Champion of Ravenwood, to put an end to their doings! You must battle them and their henchmen across many worlds before you reach them! But, do you have what it takes to best this mighty foe?

Feedback, please?


I pretty much agree with what you're saying!

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
bionaknight wrote:
Hi. I'd like to point something out. I have seen a vast increase in people either claiming to quit or just complaining about something and wanting a solution. I'd like to review these problems and give my opinion on them.


Where there are people, there will be complaints. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and will probably never change.

bionaknight wrote:
"PvP is broken": This stems from the mindset that one school can be more powerful then the other. Ice may be able to Resist a lot of damage, but Storm can deal far more then them without Blades. Death might be able to Drain Health, but Life can Heal through a lot of the toughest Spells. It's the strategy, folks, not the school. And though going first can help influence a fight, skilled strategists can easily win going second. Going second even has it's own advantages, when you look hard enough. (Afternote: I also see the general dissappointment about Puppet Teams. I'm sure this will be fixed, Kingsisle already said they are working on changes. But be patient here people.)


As mentioned on your other post, I don't PvP and (in theory) don't have to care about this *insert school here* is over/underpowered stuff that goes on. That said, the strategy thing holds true in both PvE and PvP combat~ if you don't tailor it, to suit the opponent, you /will/ fail.

I don't know the full extent of what a "puppet" team is, but have read about them a fair bit... sounds like a pretty lame exploit, IMHO. Glad they're working on it.

bionaknight wrote:
"Too many Hoard Packs": Where, precisely, is it stated that you MUST spend money and buy these things? Mounts don't effect your performance in battle. Gear and Wands are good, but never mandatory, and no Gear, in my opinion, can beat the Waterworks set.


Agreed. I'm level 80, and I still wear my WW gear~ probably will, until the day I quit playing (which won't be anytime soon, I hope).

Unless you are buying zones with Crowns, they are not required to advance game-play. I have mixed feelings about the hoard packs, but most off the stuff in the Crown shop is fluff that's available for gold/as boss-drops. All of my mounts and houses (with a couple exceptions), were purchased with gold, which leaves my Crowns free for things like henchmen... and hoard packs... LOL. :)

My favourite Crowns-item is still my Ruined Painting, which I spent a year farming for... I could have easily spent the 5000 crowns, but opted to save them and earn it instead.

bionaknight wrote:
"Nothing to do at max level other then PvP": Before you talk about this on the Forums or in Game, think to yourself: "Wait, how did I get to max level?" The answer would be: Boss Battles, Quests, Dungeons, etc, etc, etc. You can always revist them. Some may drop rare items for you to collect!


Agreed, yet again.

I don't PvP, but I always find stuff to do... I help friends, farm dungeons, take people for joyrides on my spiffy new Hydra mount (guess who spent more Crowns than she should have on hoard packs, LOL)... The possibilities are endless!

The one thing I won't do? Quest. I don't care what anyone says~ I am /not/ taking a crack at Morganthe, and all of her crazy cheats, for no XP. I have more self-respect than that, haha.

bionaknight wrote:
"Storyline is getting worse": I find this hard to believe. It's even the same as Malistaire: An evil Wizard wants to conquer/destroy Spiral. It's up to you, the Wizard, the Champion of Ravenwood, to put an end to their doings! You must battle them and their henchmen across many worlds before you reach them! But, do you have what it takes to best this mighty foe?


I am an avid reader/writer and, therefore, follow the plot like one. From a strictly-literary perspective, here's why I disagree:

Good vs. evil (world domination, especially) is one of the most cliché plot devices ever~ it's been overdone, burnt to a crisp, and cooked for 15 minutes more, a zillion times. The premise is the same, but the difference between a good story and a great one lies in characterization.

The Malistaire arc was extremely well-written, and so beautiful in its twistedness. He didn't want to take over the Spiral, so much as he wanted Sylvia back~ that alone made him so much more than the average, cookie-cutter Disney villain; in fact, I hesitate to use the word villain, because I don't think he was one.

Grief and anger are selfish, and very human, emotions~ the line between what's right and wrong becomes blurred, and the little details (the Dragon Titan destroying the Spiral) get lost in the big picture (bringing Sylvia back). So, while he thought he was doing the right thing, he wasn't completely aware of the consequences... and who doesn't have blinders on, when it comes to love? As a "reader", I was emotionally-invested in the story and the characters; like a brilliant novel, I didn't want it to end. :(

On the other end of the story, Morganthe is just an outline, a sketch of a character, who has the potential to be awesome, but has failed to deliver thus far. I haven't bonded with her at all, because I don't know what her motivations are~ why is she "evil", or is she? What are her reasons, for doing things the way she does? Right now, it's just one, big mystery... and not in a good way.

... I just wrote a literary analysis of a video-game. I guess that makes me a bigger nerd than I though I was.

Happy trails,

El Veeb,
archmage sorceress, literary critic, and shameless Drake fan-girl.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
ou missed the entire point that Bionaknight was making.

Just because you or someone does not like one thing, why must threats be made to quit the game?

KI has stated that changes are in progress, but people are still threatening to quit and have no patience.

Bionaknight never said that "Everything is Fine", not even sure how you got that conclusion from the post, but everyone perceives things in their own way. Such as what Bionaknight said about the storyline, some say it is boring and meaningless, while others get the parody and love it.

Perception and openmindedness, these are the things that have been seriously lacking in the message boards. People jump on the complaint bandwagon, rather than thinking. If there is a problem, come up with a solution rather than just threatening to quit.

Another thing that would be nice, is if people actually read the posts and tried to understand what is being said before they reply.


And this is why the forums are broken, not because people have disagreements. Because people have to insult the intelligence of others to make their point. I am not ignorant, lazy, nor am I accusing anyone else of being so. I did read the post. I am open-minded. I do like the game. I am not threatening to quit--if I quit, I will quit. But do not accuse me of not reading. Did you read my response? Did I threaten to quit anywhere in it? There's reading, and there's over-reading.

These sorts of "stop complaining" posts are not helping. That was my ONLY point here.

Please no trolls. Not helpful. Not community-oriented, which is what forums and message boards should be.

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
I'd like to make a few comments on the heated argument this thread has created.

@Tabby: I did not intend this for players to "stop complaining". I was sharing my opinions on the matter. Not trying to change the world or anything, just place my opinions out in the open for people to see.

@Darthjt: There's no need to fight with Tabby. Though I appreciate your defense of my thread, there isn't really anything to defend it against. I accept all feedback on all of my threads, and Tabby is welcome to her opinion. No, that isn't a contradiction, I was just making sure Tabby knew I wasn't trying to change minds or insult people.

Explorer
Sep 19, 2010
72
darthjt wrote:
Reading comprehension will do wonders, it really will.

Learn what a troll is, because so far, Tabby, that is you.

If you read Bionaknights post, then you should know where threatening to quit came from. Nobody said you, do you have a guilty conscience? Or do you just not comprehend?

Yes, people who read and jump to posting without comprehending what is being asked or said, this is the problem with the forum community. Read the post entirely.

You say you are intelligent, then show it.


Where to begin with this one. With all those posts, i see you spend more time here, then in the actual game. And i have to defend Tabby here, because when you point a finger at someone else, there are 3 fingers pointed right back at you. darthjt actually trolled tabby's post, then flamed it. That reaks of hypocrisy lol.

Fact of the matter is, I am of the opinion, that, KI made changes to Guardian Spirit, not because it was OP, but, to satisfy the small group of PVP complainers. What KI failed to realize, was the collateral damage of such a hasty and poorly thought out action. This is the straw that broke the camels back for me, and it wouldnt be the first time i quit a game and took my money elsewhere, and it probably wont be the last.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I'd like to make a few comments on the heated argument this thread has created.

@Tabby: I did not intend this for players to "stop complaining". I was sharing my opinions on the matter. Not trying to change the world or anything, just place my opinions out in the open for people to see.

@Darthjt: There's no need to fight with Tabby. Though I appreciate your defense of my thread, there isn't really anything to defend it against. I accept all feedback on all of my threads, and Tabby is welcome to her opinion. No, that isn't a contradiction, I was just making sure Tabby knew I wasn't trying to change minds or insult people.


Thank you. And I hope you also know I wasn't trying to insult you or your position. I appreciate this comment, and will strive to be as mature in my comments here as you are! Sorry if I seemed heated in my reply to you.

Aside: I had a frustrating game day today, which may have made me testy! I was doing Trial of the Spheres, got all the way up to the last battle, and couldn't activate the portal because of the maintenance downtime! :( No excuse for bad manners, of course--but usually I'm not so irritable.) Anyway, thanks again.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
bionaknight wrote:
Hi. I'd like to point something out. I have seen a vast increase in people either claiming to quit or just complaining about something and wanting a solution. I'd like to review these problems and give my opinion on them.


Since the trolls are out and refuse to accept facts, let me break this down for them. Nobody was saying they specifically were going to quit. If anyone has been reading and paying attention to the posts lately, like Bionaknight has done, a lot of people have been threatening to quit. Why, because of certain issues, which some see as problems and others dont.

GS is an issue that people on both sides have threatened to quit.
Ice Resistance is an issue that people are threatening to quit.
Rude trolls that are in the game and on the message boards are issues that people have threatened to quit.

This list goes on and on. It seems that people are losing any and all patience, that for whatever reason, they need to threaten to quit in order to get their changes in immediately.

Some trolls don't seem to understand that this is what Bionaknight was saying, not that there are not issues and that everything is fine, but is that really the way to fix issues, by threatening to quit?

"PvP is broken": This stems from the mindset that one school can be more powerful then the other. Ice may be able to Resist a lot of damage, but Storm can deal far more then them without Blades. Death might be able to Drain Health, but Life can Heal through a lot of the toughest Spells. It's the strategy, folks, not the school. And though going first can help influence a fight, skilled strategists can easily win going second. Going second even has it's own advantages, when you look hard enough. (Afternote: I also see the general dissappointment about Puppet Teams. I'm sure this will be fixed, Kingsisle already said they are working on changes. But be patient here people.)


PvP has many flaws, which KI is working on updating PVP, but, as Bionaknight has stated, people are not being patient. Not sure how some trolls get that there are no issues, or that everything is fine out of this statement, but some people actually read what is posted and said in each paragraph.


"Too many Hoard Packs": Where, precisely, is it stated that you MUST spend money and buy these things? Mounts don't effect your performance in battle. Gear and Wands are good, but never mandatory, and no Gear, in my opinion, can beat the Waterworks set.


This is a well thought out statement and is entirely true. Hoard packs are not mandatory and players in both PvE and PvP can get along fine without the purchase of a Hoard Pack.

I will state though, that being 20 levels higher than waterworks gear, updated gear is an issue that needs to be addressed in the near future.


"Nothing to do at max level other then PvP": Before you talk about this on the Forums or in Game, think to yourself: "Wait, how did I get to max level?" The answer would be: Boss Battles, Quests, Dungeons, etc, etc, etc. You can always revist them. Some may drop rare items for you to collect!


Another good point. People complain all the time that they don't have thier waterworks gear or that Mastery Amulet. This is a prime opportunity to farm for such things. Plants, pets, farming, etc, there are many things to continue to do at max level, rather than PvP. However, PvP can be fun to some, but, as I stated, it is easier for most to whine and complain, rather than try, think, and strategize.


"Storyline is getting worse": I find this hard to believe. It's even the same as Malistaire: An evil Wizard wants to conquer/destroy Spiral. It's up to you, the Wizard, the Champion of Ravenwood, to put an end to their doings! You must battle them and their henchmen across many worlds before you reach them! But, do you have what it takes to best this mighty foe?

Again, I completely agree, how is the storyline getting worse? It's all in the mindset of each individual. If you are unhappy about something, you make excuses not to like other things.

As for kids ages 8 to 12, how many do you see in DragonSpyre and above? Not many and if there are, they are usually the low levels that port to other people. So, KI is not supposed to advance the progression of the game? It should be mobs of Unicorn way through the entire game?

Feedback, please?


Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and the forums are a place for feedback, thoughts, and views, which is what BionaKnight has given us.

I am not sure how people misread things, especially when a post like this is so well written and thought out, but, it's obvious that it happens.

Hero
Jun 11, 2010
729
bionaknight wrote:

"Storyline is getting worse": I find this hard to believe. It's even the same as Malistaire: An evil Wizard wants to conquer/destroy Spiral. It's up to you, the Wizard, the Champion of Ravenwood, to put an end to their doings! You must battle them and their henchmen across many worlds before you reach them! But, do you have what it takes to best this mighty foe?

Feedback, please?

My comment would be if people keep pushing for a new world when a new one JUST came out (example one week after new world we see "New world idea!" "What's next?" and so on) the storyline will actually get worse. Just let the people at KI do their jobs, they know what they are doing. I agree with many of your points, and we see so many posts on these topics it's a wonder why people still complain about them, when all it causes is argueing.