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Why was balance given judgement to begin with

1
AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
Balance's attacks are weak cause they are supposed to have no defense against them. They are middle of the road damage weak, not super weak, but not supposed to be super strong either. Balance's attacks largely deal damage and reduce other people's damages. Balance casts weakness and cards that decrease targetting. So how is it that balance wound up with arguably the strongest 1v1 damage dealing card in the entire game? I've seen judgement on item cards that deal something around 125 damage per pip. I thought storm was supposed to have the highest damage cards, so why does balance have the hardest hitting 1v1 card, rather than storm school. Why is there no real defense against the hardest pottential damage 1v1 card in the game? Toss in pets and equipment such as a hat that carry stackable balance blades, and this is just insane.

I read no where in character discriptions that said balance is supposed to be the heaviest damage 1v1 dealer in the game.

Survivor
Jan 23, 2009
42
It's because you have about8 turns to completely ruin it with a few tower + treasure tower shields, also a weakness if you have them.

Survivor
Aug 20, 2009
39
Well mostly for one i think it ended up like that because like you said balance dont have to many strong spells, so they needed one. Though storm didnt really need the bolt they are a school of strong atacks so it works for me to :)

Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
Once again, more judgement posts...

Tempest to all, full pips base damage= 4,480 damage to all (total)

Judgement to one, full pips base damage = 1,400 damage to ONE


plus, judgement is pretty much the only balance attack that does OK damage..
look at hydra. It is a six pip spell and does only 540 base damage. Even LIFES
level 33 spell is stronger than that!!!

it seems like every week you start to complain about a new school

first its fire getting drop rates, now its judgement being overpowered, when it isnt at all.

why dont you post a list about why diviners are unfair at times. there are plenty of reasons, considering what you think about these other schools.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
NuclearWar wrote:
Once again, more judgement posts...

Tempest to all, full pips base damage= 4,480 damage to all (total)

Judgement to one, full pips base damage = 1,400 damage to ONE


plus, judgement is pretty much the only balance attack that does OK damage..
look at hydra. It is a six pip spell and does only 540 base damage. Even LIFES
level 33 spell is stronger than that!!!

it seems like every week you start to complain about a new school

first its fire getting drop rates, now its judgement being overpowered, when it isnt at all.

why dont you post a list about why diviners are unfair at times. there are plenty of reasons, considering what you think about these other schools.


The tempest card goes up to 125 damage per pip, while tempest is 80 per pip. Tempest has all sorts of shields against it, judgement has only tower. Per pip 1v1 damage hit storm doesn't have this type of killing power even without such lack of shieldings against it.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
metalcan09 wrote:
Well mostly for one i think it ended up like that because like you said balance dont have to many strong spells, so they needed one. Though storm didnt really need the bolt they are a school of strong atacks so it works for me to :)


play balance without judgement, and compare it to myth and tell me which one is stronger, lol... balance didn't need judgement at all... its damage reductions and the like like is what the class was supposed to be about

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
RiskYourLife wrote:
It's because you have about8 turns to completely ruin it with a few tower + treasure tower shields, also a weakness if you have them.


Funny, I don't see that many people doubling up on two different balance sheild types even in pvp and I never see that being done by bosses or in normal game play. Besides, every school also goes up against this with other shieldings tossed in to boot.

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
lets see.

all applicable natural boosts (spells that can be learned, so this doesn't include dragonblade), stacked in the most advantageous way, cannot even boost judgement to 400% of its base value. a 14-pip judgement, with those 5 boosts, deals 5569 damage.

14-pip tempest, with all applicable blades, traps, and area spell:
22748 damage to all enemies.

it's really hard to get 7 power pips anyway, requiring extremely high power pip chances.

BALANCE is unfair?!?!? NO SCHOOL is unfair.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
Defender
May 09, 2009
161
hey guess what man?

this is about the 23'rd post about balance having judgment.

well guess what. all the schools have 1 spell that are about the same strength and they can all kill in 1 hit.

judgment
triton
helephant
colossus
centaur
wraith
what every myth is

you see balance really can only use 2 traps and blades for judgment
feint, hex and balance blade and blade storm

thats a total of 145% as for fire ice and the rest of the schools they usally reach around or above 200%.

which means the only way for judment to match their power is for a full 7 pips which with the 2, 1 pip spell cards thats a total of 9 pips but the 7 pips have to be power pips

the rest of the schools need 6 pips or 3 power pips with 3, 1 pip spells feint elemental or spirit blade and traps. which is a total of 6 turns if all you get is power pips while balance has to wait 9 turns

Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
seasnake wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
Once again, more judgement posts...

Tempest to all, full pips base damage= 4,480 damage to all (total)

Judgement to one, full pips base damage = 1,400 damage to ONE


plus, judgement is pretty much the only balance attack that does OK damage..
look at hydra. It is a six pip spell and does only 540 base damage. Even LIFES
level 33 spell is stronger than that!!!

it seems like every week you start to complain about a new school

first its fire getting drop rates, now its judgement being overpowered, when it isnt at all.

why dont you post a list about why diviners are unfair at times. there are plenty of reasons, considering what you think about these other schools.


The tempest card goes up to 125 damage per pip, while tempest is 80 per pip. Tempest has all sorts of shields against it, judgement has only tower. Per pip 1v1 damage hit storm doesn't have this type of killing power even without such lack of shieldings against it.


I am talking about the REAL card, not the treasure card or the crown gear card. Note that tempest has treasure cards also.

Survivor
Jan 03, 2009
39
seasnake wrote:
Balance's attacks are weak cause they are supposed to have no defense against them. They are middle of the road damage weak, not super weak, but not supposed to be super strong either. Balance's attacks largely deal damage and reduce other people's damages. Balance casts weakness and cards that decrease targetting. So how is it that balance wound up with arguably the strongest 1v1 damage dealing card in the entire game? I've seen judgement on item cards that deal something around 125 damage per pip. I thought storm was supposed to have the highest damage cards, so why does balance have the hardest hitting 1v1 card, rather than storm school. Why is there no real defense against the hardest pottential damage 1v1 card in the game? Toss in pets and equipment such as a hat that carry stackable balance blades, and this is just insane.

I read no where in character discriptions that said balance is supposed to be the heaviest damage 1v1 dealer in the game.


Dear seasnake,

OK. First things first. Do you have a balance? If you did, that would make it very easy for me to explain this to you. Balance is meant to be the strongest school in the game. Ever notice how balance has spells for fire, ice and STORM? There is another blog that is very popular about the best school to solo the game with. I heard several people say balance. Also, when you pick balance in the beginning, it says that balance is a very strong school; read for yourself.

Now, on to balance's defense. Balance has a very high defense. but very low offense. After all, balance is meant to be a partner school. You blade your partner and use pip donate. However, KI needed to make at least a few good attack spells for balance. That would be judgement and spectral blast(but KI still seems to think that hydra is good). Without those two spells balance is the balance minion with human smarts.
Next up, Judgement itself. Judgement does 100 damage per pip. It attacks over one round, and it is a balance type move with 85% accuracy. The only way to obtain Judgement now other than a treasure card is to do a quest at level 28. The thing about Judgement is that its balance, making only balance buffs available to use. Are you getting at what i am saying now?

Now i am going to compare Judgement to the best fire spell if used correctly, Heckhound. Heckhound and Judgement are both spells that use all of your pips at once. Heckhound does 125 damage per pip spread out over 3 rounds, with 75% chance of hitting. Heckhound is from the fire school and the only way to obtain Heckhound is by doing the main story line all the way up to Krokspinx. I have already explained Judgement. Now look at the differences between the two spells. We all know that fire's buffs are already better than balance's, plus fire can use balances buffs as well. Heckhound does more damage per pip, and has a bit less hit chance. The only thing stopping Heckhound from being the best spell in the game is that it is spread out over 3 rounds! As a matter of fact, when you are fighting a single monster, Heckhound is the best spell that there is to use. And yes, it does beat Judgement, even at full buff vs full buff. The thing that makes people think that Judgement is better is that Heckhound is spread out over 3 rounds, making it easier for someone to heal in PvP! And to think, people think of Heckhound as old and weak, when Judgement is worse.

OK. I have made my point clearly enough. Your off the hook now. But remember all i have said and think next time before you complain about Judgement!

Best regards,
Hunter Thunderdust, Level 39 Fire
Patrick Starcatcher, Level 29 Balance
Chris Deathsword, Level 26 Life

Survivor
Feb 26, 2009
1
i believe balance needs judgement i used to have a balance wizard and now i am a life wizard as a life wizard that has taken on many balance wizards in the pvp i have lost to them only to times i have the chance to get allof y blades and buffs and maybe even a feint them and it takes only six turns by then i have my centaur all powered up and ready to finish the supposed unstoppable balance school i find they arent as strong as everybody says they are i am a level 40 life wizard and i work hard to keep my name in the ranked pvp : by jack lifegem ,wizards name

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
I am not so much against judgement as I am against the per pip strength of judgement expecially from the item cards. Comparing other school cards to judgement is ludicrous as at the upper levels and pvp play you will find that getting more than two power ups on any attack typically takes too long and often gets blocked by shieldings.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
In my opinion judgement should be dropped to 70 points damage per pip, item cards should be no greater than 90 points per pip, and balance should be given a charm allowing it to use other school spells at a cost of a couple pips as if they were part of the other school. To me that sounds more like a balance character than a balance character being given arguably the strongest hitting 1v1 attack card in the entire game without any real defense against it other than using another tower treasure card if you already have a tower shield and hoping that no one ever attacks you before the balance player does.

Defender
Dec 21, 2008
187
NuclearWar wrote:
Once again, more judgement posts...

Tempest to all, full pips base damage= 4,480 damage to all (total)

Judgement to one, full pips base damage = 1,400 damage to ONE


plus, judgement is pretty much the only balance attack that does OK damage..
look at hydra. It is a six pip spell and does only 540 base damage. Even LIFES
level 33 spell is stronger than that!!!

it seems like every week you start to complain about a new school

first its fire getting drop rates, now its judgement being overpowered, when it isnt at all.

why dont you post a list about why diviners are unfair at times. there are plenty of reasons, considering what you think about these other schools.

It is possible for hydra to be more power full then centaur. But I have said this a lot of times, temp is better! but judge I am starting actually to think its okay. But one think I do think still unfair about balance. the balance elemental shields and spirit shields should at least be a pip. They can even ruin the best shield breaking schools with it. Myth and Fire.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
Maybe against very weak and pathetic myth/fire players. On my fire grand, when I see someone stack fire shield after fire shield, I lick my chops. It's a guaranteed win.

Explorer
Jun 07, 2009
90
NuclearWar wrote:
Once again, more judgement posts...

Tempest to all, full pips base damage= 4,480 damage to all (total)

Judgement to one, full pips base damage = 1,400 damage to ONE


plus, judgement is pretty much the only balance attack that does OK damage..
look at hydra. It is a six pip spell and does only 540 base damage. Even LIFES
level 33 spell is stronger than that!!!

it seems like every week you start to complain about a new school

first its fire getting drop rates, now its judgement being overpowered, when it isnt at all.

why dont you post a list about why diviners are unfair at times. there are plenty of reasons, considering what you think about these other schools.
storm is fair no school is "Unfair" every school has its weaknesses and advaniges ( spelling ) Destiny Lifeblossom level 41 Fiona level 5 warlord

Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
so your saying you want tempest, a damge to ALL spell, to be more powerful than judgement, a damge to ONE spell.

Judgement only has two blade and two traps

tempest has about 3 possible blades (non treasure) and over 5 traps.

Survivor
May 09, 2010
43
this is getting ridicoulous. everyones complaining

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
seasnake wrote:
In my opinion judgement should be dropped to 70 points damage per pip, item cards should be no greater than 90 points per pip, and balance should be given a charm allowing it to use other school spells at a cost of a couple pips as if they were part of the other school. To me that sounds more like a balance character than a balance character being given arguably the strongest hitting 1v1 attack card in the entire game without any real defense against it other than using another tower treasure card if you already have a tower shield and hoping that no one ever attacks you before the balance player does.


Great for PvP not so great for PvE. You need to realize there are many players who don't do PvP. What you suggest would cross over to us in PvE.

PvP is one small segment of the game. I have seen people explain over and over and over how to defeat Judgement. In game I have watched my friends do WAY more damage with other spells than my best hit with Judgement.

Megan Frostriver Grandmaster Theurgist
Megan Frostbringer Grandmaster Sorcerer (who doesn't do PvP and is tired of all the complaining about Judgement)

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
Yeah, but not legitimately. Anyone who plays a balance to grandmaster knows that without judgment, balance is essentially a worthless class unless you want to be a buffbot that does nothing but blade and shield other people in fights.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
NuclearWar wrote:
so your saying you want tempest, a damge to ALL spell, to be more powerful than judgement, a damge to ONE spell.

Judgement only has two blade and two traps

tempest has about 3 possible blades (non treasure) and over 5 traps.


Storm rarely uses more than two blades and two traps at any time unless going up against a huge boss. The complaint against judgment is that it is arguably the strongest 1v1 spell in the entire game damage wise on a character that is supposed to deal average damage where the justification is that there isn't much of any defense against balance. The complaint against storm on the other hand is completely unjustified in that storm is supposed to have the highest damage attacks in the game, but is also supposed to have low health, low accuracy, and a much harder time getting around defenses.

Survivor
Jul 18, 2009
31
because you need lo learn o deal with it like every school has its own weakneses

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
seasnake wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
so your saying you want tempest, a damge to ALL spell, to be more powerful than judgement, a damge to ONE spell.

Judgement only has two blade and two traps

tempest has about 3 possible blades (non treasure) and over 5 traps.


Storm rarely uses more than two blades and two traps at any time unless going up against a huge boss. The complaint against judgment is that it is arguably the strongest 1v1 spell in the entire game damage wise on a character that is supposed to deal average damage where the justification is that there isn't much of any defense against balance. The complaint against storm on the other hand is completely unjustified in that storm is supposed to have the highest damage attacks in the game, but is also supposed to have low health, low accuracy, and a much harder time getting around defenses.


"arguably the strongest 1v1 spell in the game" is something you use over and over, making small adjustments apparently to avoid total redundancy.

now the thing is, how far a spell can be boosted has to be taken into account. since it is literally possible to boost any non-balance attack indefinitely, we can safely assume that judgement, as a balance attack, cannot be the most powerful attack. the non-balance attack with the most base damage is (oddly, the best multiple enemy attack is also the best 1v1 attack with this taken into account - tempest)

and you are right; 100 damage per pip is not average. you are incorrect, however, in saying it is ABOVE average. simply put, there is one more school dealing MORE damage than balance than schools dealing LESS. average damage is therfore slightly ABOVE 100 damage/pip.

as a final note, i'd like to direct you to my post "once and for all" in the pvp section, which includes a guide for every school (including balance) in both diffusing judgement and defeating enemy sorcerers outright.

1