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Whats the difference between turn and reg pvp?

AuthorMessage
Champion
Sep 30, 2018
493
In my opinion i see it as a rather slower way of reg pvp. Pip limit restriction and not being able to do anything until its your turn doesn't necessary fix the going first position advantage. This also made it worse for second position players who still prob have to play the guessing game on what the opponent is gonna do next after a shield into stun block set up. Not to mention that balance mana burn is also a bit abusive in turn base and regular pvp.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
170
angellifeheart on Apr 28, 2019 wrote:
In my opinion i see it as a rather slower way of reg pvp. Pip limit restriction and not being able to do anything until its your turn doesn't necessary fix the going first position advantage. This also made it worse for second position players who still prob have to play the guessing game on what the opponent is gonna do next after a shield into stun block set up. Not to mention that balance mana burn is also a bit abusive in turn base and regular pvp.
Turn based, normally the more skilled player will win. In normal pvp if both players know what they are doing 80% of the time the player going first will win.

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
206
angellifeheart on Apr 28, 2019 wrote:
In my opinion i see it as a rather slower way of reg pvp. Pip limit restriction and not being able to do anything until its your turn doesn't necessary fix the going first position advantage. This also made it worse for second position players who still prob have to play the guessing game on what the opponent is gonna do next after a shield into stun block set up. Not to mention that balance mana burn is also a bit abusive in turn base and regular pvp.
The only real disadvantage it has compared to regular PvP is gameplay is slower. Players having to guess or predict what their opponent is going to do is completely eliminated in turn based PvP, not made worse. And the concept of the player going second no longer exists except for the first two turns, and not in the same way. Once the game gets rolling both players are reacting to what their opponent has just done as they alternate turns, not predicting, as the player going second in regular PvP would have to.

And turn based PvP was never about being more or less abusive, it is about fairness. Mana Burn and many other spells more or less are most effective when used in confidence. Knowing exactly what the conditions will be when you cast it rather than having to predict. the difference is when in regular PvP only the player going first is able to do this, now both players in turn based PvP can cast every spell in confidence. Another thing you're not considering is that not only both players in turn based PvP are capable of being confident when being offensive, just like the player going first in regular PvP but also both players can defend themselves in confidence too, always knowing at the start of your turn whether you need to defend yourself or not. It's fair because both players are capable of doing this, not just the player going first.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
493
Ghost stone on May 23, 2019 wrote:
The only real disadvantage it has compared to regular PvP is gameplay is slower. Players having to guess or predict what their opponent is going to do is completely eliminated in turn based PvP, not made worse. And the concept of the player going second no longer exists except for the first two turns, and not in the same way. Once the game gets rolling both players are reacting to what their opponent has just done as they alternate turns, not predicting, as the player going second in regular PvP would have to.

And turn based PvP was never about being more or less abusive, it is about fairness. Mana Burn and many other spells more or less are most effective when used in confidence. Knowing exactly what the conditions will be when you cast it rather than having to predict. the difference is when in regular PvP only the player going first is able to do this, now both players in turn based PvP can cast every spell in confidence. Another thing you're not considering is that not only both players in turn based PvP are capable of being confident when being offensive, just like the player going first in regular PvP but also both players can defend themselves in confidence too, always knowing at the start of your turn whether you need to defend yourself or not. It's fair because both players are capable of doing this, not just the player going first.
Your first statement is exactly what i said earlier and you still have to predict from second. There are times your opponent shield you shield and then it becomes a point to where who is gonna land the first shadow hit per say. Ironically feels the same and both players starts off with the same 5 pips which even proves more of a disadvantage for anyone going second. In regular pvp everything happens in one turn but turn base requires 2 turns to do the exact thing. Also not to mention that lore master seems to be even more problematic in turn base pvp

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
206
angellifeheart on May 23, 2019 wrote:
Your first statement is exactly what i said earlier and you still have to predict from second. There are times your opponent shield you shield and then it becomes a point to where who is gonna land the first shadow hit per say. Ironically feels the same and both players starts off with the same 5 pips which even proves more of a disadvantage for anyone going second. In regular pvp everything happens in one turn but turn base requires 2 turns to do the exact thing. Also not to mention that lore master seems to be even more problematic in turn base pvp
??? You have lost me. As far as I can tell we are not saying the same thing. You're saying that turn based PvP does not fix the first turn advantage that exists in regular PvP and I'm saying that it does. You are saying that the player going second in turn based PvP still has to predict what their opponent is going to do. This just isn't true at all, because neither player has to choose their move until after their opponents turn has been completely played. Only in regular PvP does the player going second have to predict what their opponent is going to do because they have to choose their move before seeing what their opponent is going to do. In turn based PvP there is no prediction at all for both players because you have seen what your opponent has done before choosing your own move, and this will always be the case whether you started or not.

Also the concept of first and second players are completely void in turn based PvP because you are alternating one after the other. For example, if you started watching a turn based game halfway through without seeing the start, how would you know who is the first and second player?

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
493
Ghost stone on May 24, 2019 wrote:
??? You have lost me. As far as I can tell we are not saying the same thing. You're saying that turn based PvP does not fix the first turn advantage that exists in regular PvP and I'm saying that it does. You are saying that the player going second in turn based PvP still has to predict what their opponent is going to do. This just isn't true at all, because neither player has to choose their move until after their opponents turn has been completely played. Only in regular PvP does the player going second have to predict what their opponent is going to do because they have to choose their move before seeing what their opponent is going to do. In turn based PvP there is no prediction at all for both players because you have seen what your opponent has done before choosing your own move, and this will always be the case whether you started or not.

Also the concept of first and second players are completely void in turn based PvP because you are alternating one after the other. For example, if you started watching a turn based game halfway through without seeing the start, how would you know who is the first and second player?
Lol what? So lets put this into a scenario am first your second. My turn i shield your turn you shield correct.? Now lets say if i took of your shield with a wand hit would u do the same? that's when the prediction comes in because now u gotta choose weather to sacrifice and open hit or shield again am i right? Even better what if i was ice and the same scenario applies except instead of wand hitting i steal ward what happens then? Then you ask how would you know who is first and who is second? the one with less hp is second if it comes down to shield battle per say. I played a turn base match and i can clearly say it's boring, despite the fact i won 3/4 and came second because i lost to an ice going second.

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
206
angellifeheart on May 24, 2019 wrote:
Lol what? So lets put this into a scenario am first your second. My turn i shield your turn you shield correct.? Now lets say if i took of your shield with a wand hit would u do the same? that's when the prediction comes in because now u gotta choose weather to sacrifice and open hit or shield again am i right? Even better what if i was ice and the same scenario applies except instead of wand hitting i steal ward what happens then? Then you ask how would you know who is first and who is second? the one with less hp is second if it comes down to shield battle per say. I played a turn base match and i can clearly say it's boring, despite the fact i won 3/4 and came second because i lost to an ice going second.
This is not predicting, this is making decisions. You can’t assume your opponent is going to do something and predict it because your opponent will be reacting to what you do. If you shield they might wand again, if you wand they might take the opportunity to hit or shield again. Who knows? But not only are they reacting to what you do, you are also reacting to what they do. That’s what makes it fair. I can’t see how this is a problem. This is how it’s done in almost every other turn based game in existence. In regular PvP only the player going first can react to what their opponent has done, while the player going second has to guess what their opponent is going to do. This is the problem with Regulat PvP that doesn’t exist in turn based PvP.

Yes you are right that there is still an advantage in starting. It is Inevitable in a turn based game that one player will have to take the first turn. But this was never where the real problem was. Also this is compensated for by giving the other player an extra starting pip.

This is the fairest possible way to do it, which is what the whole point of turn based PvP was all about. Fairness. The problem with regular PvP has always been more than just one player gets to start

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
493
Ghost stone on May 28, 2019 wrote:
This is not predicting, this is making decisions. You can’t assume your opponent is going to do something and predict it because your opponent will be reacting to what you do. If you shield they might wand again, if you wand they might take the opportunity to hit or shield again. Who knows? But not only are they reacting to what you do, you are also reacting to what they do. That’s what makes it fair. I can’t see how this is a problem. This is how it’s done in almost every other turn based game in existence. In regular PvP only the player going first can react to what their opponent has done, while the player going second has to guess what their opponent is going to do. This is the problem with Regulat PvP that doesn’t exist in turn based PvP.

Yes you are right that there is still an advantage in starting. It is Inevitable in a turn based game that one player will have to take the first turn. But this was never where the real problem was. Also this is compensated for by giving the other player an extra starting pip.

This is the fairest possible way to do it, which is what the whole point of turn based PvP was all about. Fairness. The problem with regular PvP has always been more than just one player gets to start
I see it some what of a solution, but i guess ill have to try it more often. I do wish ki could add turn base to practice to give new individual and old player a try at it rather than depending on tourney.