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Triage vs. Detonate

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Oct 19, 2009
8
As a fire I think the spell detonate should be brought down to zero pips. I'm fine with triage, but while life can take away a huge amount of overtime damage with no pips, fire can only speed it up damage that will happen anyways for 4 pips. To make detonate fair it should be brought down to zero pips. To prove my point, when was the last time you saw a fire use detonate?
Thanks, Seth Fireblade Lvl 95

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
Topher3691 on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
As a fire I think the spell detonate should be brought down to zero pips. I'm fine with triage, but while life can take away a huge amount of overtime damage with no pips, fire can only speed it up damage that will happen anyways for 4 pips. To make detonate fair it should be brought down to zero pips. To prove my point, when was the last time you saw a fire use detonate?
Thanks, Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
I think taking it down to 0 pips is a bit much, 2-3 pips sounds fair to me though. And I think it was made to be 4 pips so that you couldn't do it to a full pip heckhound (thus defeating the point of the spell). So instead of having a heckhound with 14 pips on an enemy get exploded the first turn, you have to wait at least one turn.

That's what I think,
Wolf Skullslinger

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Topher3691 on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
As a fire I think the spell detonate should be brought down to zero pips. I'm fine with triage, but while life can take away a huge amount of overtime damage with no pips, fire can only speed it up damage that will happen anyways for 4 pips. To make detonate fair it should be brought down to zero pips. To prove my point, when was the last time you saw a fire use detonate?
Thanks, Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
I agree. Currently, detonate is practically useless. It's more useful just to use another attack instead of wasting a lot of pips for a small effect.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
Topher3691 on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
As a fire I think the spell detonate should be brought down to zero pips. I'm fine with triage, but while life can take away a huge amount of overtime damage with no pips, fire can only speed it up damage that will happen anyways for 4 pips. To make detonate fair it should be brought down to zero pips. To prove my point, when was the last time you saw a fire use detonate?
Thanks, Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
I disagree, having a zero pip detonate would effectively create an undefendable situation. Consider this: from first a fire uses max blade- high pip heckhound. Follows up with detonate...gg. As for triage it is simply a weaker, reactive shield(that at most only takes away less than 66% of a DoT wheras most shields take away 70% of a single attack and are proactive rather than reactive)

Explorer
Aug 25, 2012
66
If detonate was brought down to 0 pips, it'll encourage the use of it after a full pip heckhound, which, if going first, can make heckhound just like a single hit attack, except with more damage. I think it'll be a deadly combo that would wipe out most people.

Wizard101 seemed to have really thought about the pip cost of detonate. They made it just so it can't be used in combination with a full pip heckhound. By the time the fire wizard would have enough pips for detonate(after casting hound), the heckhound dot would already be on its last tick, and then its just a waste of pips.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Topher3691 on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
As a fire I think the spell detonate should be brought down to zero pips. I'm fine with triage, but while life can take away a huge amount of overtime damage with no pips, fire can only speed it up damage that will happen anyways for 4 pips. To make detonate fair it should be brought down to zero pips. To prove my point, when was the last time you saw a fire use detonate?
Thanks, Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
I agree with this all the way. Detonate is currently the worst fire spell in the game. Triage is a way better spell than detonate. Costing 4 pips and only having 75% accuracy, really KI? A zero pip cost and 100% accuracy would make it a spell worth using.

Survivor
Oct 19, 2009
8
Some of you said it would be unfair because of full pip heck hound. But it can be used the same way by somebody using triage. This way at least both spells are equal and each player has the same chance to affect the spell.
Seth Fireblade Lvl 95

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
stormninja542 on Mar 25, 2014 wrote:
I agree with this all the way. Detonate is currently the worst fire spell in the game. Triage is a way better spell than detonate. Costing 4 pips and only having 75% accuracy, really KI? A zero pip cost and 100% accuracy would make it a spell worth using.
I think you missed the key difference between the spells. Detonate is an offensive spell, Triage is defensive. A pair of fire wizards can use detonate with a full heck hound. That turns the spell into 1890 base damage, add Colossal to that and you have 2165 base damage, the most powerful attack spell in the game (well ahead of the 1900 from Colossal Storm Owl). That's just base damage without boosts, blades, traps. Detonate is just fine the way it is, it's really meant to be used as a team spell with fire wizards. It allows the max use of traps. You can set feints and Heck Hound won't set them off first round and won't waste them on a partial damage hit. Second fire wizard casts detonate and the WHOLE spell is multiplied by the feints.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Wolf Skullslinger on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
I think taking it down to 0 pips is a bit much, 2-3 pips sounds fair to me though. And I think it was made to be 4 pips so that you couldn't do it to a full pip heckhound (thus defeating the point of the spell). So instead of having a heckhound with 14 pips on an enemy get exploded the first turn, you have to wait at least one turn.

That's what I think,
Wolf Skullslinger
Eh yea, you're right. Having a 0-pip detonate would be op in pvp, but since you can get a power pip after using a full power pip hound a 2-pip detonate might also be a bit op. But, making detonate 3 pips would make it almost as useless as it is now lol. The spell just was just not well-planned. It should be replaced with something new in my opinion.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Topher3691 on Mar 26, 2014 wrote:
Some of you said it would be unfair because of full pip heck hound. But it can be used the same way by somebody using triage. This way at least both spells are equal and each player has the same chance to affect the spell.
Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
I've only recently rejoined Wizard101 and the boards, so forgive me if I'm out of touch but here's the way I see it...

The only DoT in the Fire arsenal for which you specifically can't have enough pips to cast detonate on following round is heckhound. Even that is possible if you were to use a minion treasure card for one of the many minions which cast donate pips. The reason for that is purely mathematical, namely, a full pip heckhound is the not only the largest base damage spell in the game, it is also the ideal spell for maximum armor pierce. From first position, being able to drop 2 thirds of that (especially heavily blade stacked) on someone's head after you have verified that they didn't critical block it, they didn't triage it, and they didn't shield it would make fire ridiculously powerful in my opinion. That would be like a cross between near storm like damage and myth if myth could also be a shot caller for the second hit.

My rather puny fire from more than a year ago has 63% gear damage boost. With one standard fireblade and an unblocked critical, a full pip heckhound would generate 8008 damage. Two thirds of that is about 5338 and if that is used with an extraordinary treasure card, that has 20% armor pierce before considering other factors. If I add a 40% fireblade item card, that same scenario jumps to 11,211 with two thirds of it being 7474. Add in a treasure or item 20% infallible and a fire spear... now we're at 50% armor piercing before considering gear, plus I haven't spent a single pip yet. If detonate were 2 pips or less then from first, the other player is likely to have only one shot to stop that and to do so they would have to correctly anticipate which round I launch the attack on. That illustrates to me why KI set the cost of detonate at 4 pips.

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
stormninja542 on Mar 25, 2014 wrote:
I agree with this all the way. Detonate is currently the worst fire spell in the game. Triage is a way better spell than detonate. Costing 4 pips and only having 75% accuracy, really KI? A zero pip cost and 100% accuracy would make it a spell worth using.
However 0 pips would make fire OP, then people would complain about your school..and start bashing you..you wouldn't want it, trust me (coming from an Ice during the rein of crafted gear). It does need to be given better stats. The reason it isn't 0-2 pips is so that you can not heckhound and deal all of the damage the next turn. Because 135x14=1890 + 275 from Colossal = 2165 damage. Which makes it the strongest spell in the game (correct me if I'm wrong at any point here). Now, if you take 2165 damage over 3 rounds, its around 700 damage (estimated math). So its already doing a TON of damage per round. Say this theoretical fire has 80 damage, against another Hades player who has maybe 10-20 resist. This is pierced by your gear and your attack reins free. Add some blades and maybe a crit and that is lets say 2k damage a round. Now if you remember, 2-3k is about the amount that it does in total with no boosts. So then you use Detonate..if this heckhound is doing 2500 damage per round, then it has already rung one shot. Your enemy is already -2500 health, then the next turn you detonate for 0 pips and it hits the last 2 rounds that have to occur you just did 5k damage with almost no consequence to yourself.

Just think about how unfair that would be. Fire is VERY balanced right now, if you have strategy you win, if you don't you lose..its fair
Wolf Skullslinger, and yes I have a Fire

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Topher3691 on Mar 26, 2014 wrote:
Some of you said it would be unfair because of full pip heck hound. But it can be used the same way by somebody using triage. This way at least both spells are equal and each player has the same chance to affect the spell.
Seth Fireblade Lvl 95
But triage is like a shield, only after the fact. Even if they get the timing right with triage, 1/3 of the damage will always be delivered. Think about that in terms of shields and single hitter spells. A single 0 pip shield will block more than 2/3 (except for balance tri shields and towers of course) of the damage of a single hitter... so in that triage is just right where it is.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Wolf Skullslinger on Mar 27, 2014 wrote:
However 0 pips would make fire OP, then people would complain about your school..and start bashing you..you wouldn't want it, trust me (coming from an Ice during the rein of crafted gear). It does need to be given better stats. The reason it isn't 0-2 pips is so that you can not heckhound and deal all of the damage the next turn. Because 135x14=1890 + 275 from Colossal = 2165 damage. Which makes it the strongest spell in the game (correct me if I'm wrong at any point here). Now, if you take 2165 damage over 3 rounds, its around 700 damage (estimated math). So its already doing a TON of damage per round. Say this theoretical fire has 80 damage, against another Hades player who has maybe 10-20 resist. This is pierced by your gear and your attack reins free. Add some blades and maybe a crit and that is lets say 2k damage a round. Now if you remember, 2-3k is about the amount that it does in total with no boosts. So then you use Detonate..if this heckhound is doing 2500 damage per round, then it has already rung one shot. Your enemy is already -2500 health, then the next turn you detonate for 0 pips and it hits the last 2 rounds that have to occur you just did 5k damage with almost no consequence to yourself.

Just think about how unfair that would be. Fire is VERY balanced right now, if you have strategy you win, if you don't you lose..its fair
Wolf Skullslinger, and yes I have a Fire
Yea, I agree. Fire is neither op or underpowered however detonate is a very bad spell atm lol. I just think it should be replaced with a new spell.