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The Problems with PvP

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jun 29, 2009
32
I'm a veteran player. I've played since summer of 2008. I've loved this game... but one thing more than anything else. Player VS Player. I'm a multiplayer guy, I really don't see fun in questing/leveling up/doing campaign (any singleplayer tbh.) I would play PvP like NONE other when the level cap was 50. When the level cap was 50, skilled players were rewarded heavily, and it showed with people climbing to incredible ranks. However, as the level cap increased, pvp took a downfall.

Problem #1. critical was introduced. Critical, a chance to do double the damage you would normally be doing. Now, it was annoying getting criticaled, but it didn't happen very often at level 60. However, soon, the level caps started increasing. 70.. critical becoming more of a factor. 80.. block gear becomes very important.. then, 90. Unblockable critical. This is not necessary. Not at all. Why would anyone ever need 600 critical? It blows my mind that KingsIsle, having a history of making this game amazing, would ever, EVER see the need to implement this. Why?

Problem #2. matchmaking. Before I start, no. This will not be me complaining about how I keep getting matched up against warlords and I'm stuck in private. Believe me, it isn't hard to get out of private. If you're a private vs a warlord, the warlord is 10-30 levels lower than you, giving you an incredible advantage. This leads into my point. The matchmaking needs to be divided by levels, and when I say need, I mean NEED. Requirement. There is NO WAY that me, being a level 50 ice, and my friend, another level 50 ice can defend against 2 storms with 500 critical that go through our conviction repeatedly and can deal a collective 2000 damage per turn with a one pip Tempest. BTW, if I do grandmaster 2v2, I get exalted every time, no matter what I do. Even with the box checked/unchecked. If I do 20 pvp matches, 15 will be against exalted privates, 4 will be against archmage/transcendent warlords (who can still crit through my conviction,) and 1 will be against grandmasters. But, that one match is so intense and fun, it's almost worth it.

Problem #3 X-Pip spells. Judgement, tempest. Ridiculous. A Balance with a myth mastery can stacks feints then shatter. This can be countered if you're first, but if you're 2nd, you have to get REALLY lucky with a prediction or you're done. This is a very lame mechanic and anti-skill based. I don't see how KI could fix this, but I thought I'd bring it up. The real issue here is tempest. 80 damage per pip. Not too bad, right? 2 pip tempest, even if it was a critical, would do 400 damage. How's temp spamming bad? Enchant it with colossal. A 2 pip colossal tempest critical does 1000 damage. With 500+ critical, you crit EVERY TIME (I'm lvl 50.)There is no counter to this, and once again, very lame/anti-skillbased. Solution? Tempest can't be enchanted. (at least in pvp.)

PvP is dying. A lot of my veteran friends have quit because they simply cant play. These are only a few of the issues.

Delver
Jun 29, 2011
212
Champion
Jul 13, 2013
415
Noohb on Aug 9, 2014 wrote:
I'm a veteran player. I've played since summer of 2008. I've loved this game... but one thing more than anything else. Player VS Player. I'm a multiplayer guy, I really don't see fun in questing/leveling up/doing campaign (any singleplayer tbh.) I would play PvP like NONE other when the level cap was 50. When the level cap was 50, skilled players were rewarded heavily, and it showed with people climbing to incredible ranks. However, as the level cap increased, pvp took a downfall.

Problem #1. critical was introduced. Critical, a chance to do double the damage you would normally be doing. Now, it was annoying getting criticaled, but it didn't happen very often at level 60. However, soon, the level caps started increasing. 70.. critical becoming more of a factor. 80.. block gear becomes very important.. then, 90. Unblockable critical. This is not necessary. Not at all. Why would anyone ever need 600 critical? It blows my mind that KingsIsle, having a history of making this game amazing, would ever, EVER see the need to implement this. Why?

Problem #2. matchmaking. Before I start, no. This will not be me complaining about how I keep getting matched up against warlords and I'm stuck in private. Believe me, it isn't hard to get out of private. If you're a private vs a warlord, the warlord is 10-30 levels lower than you, giving you an incredible advantage. This leads into my point. The matchmaking needs to be divided by levels, and when I say need, I mean NEED. Requirement. There is NO WAY that me, being a level 50 ice, and my friend, another level 50 ice can defend against 2 storms with 500 critical that go through our conviction repeatedly and can deal a collective 2000 damage per turn with a one pip Tempest. BTW, if I do grandmaster 2v2, I get exalted every time, no matter what I do. Even with the box checked/unchecked. If I do 20 pvp matches, 15 will be against exalted privates, 4 will be against archmage/transcendent warlords (who can still crit through my conviction,) and 1 will be against grandmasters. But, that one match is so intense and fun, it's almost worth it.

Problem #3 X-Pip spells. Judgement, tempest. Ridiculous. A Balance with a myth mastery can stacks feints then shatter. This can be countered if you're first, but if you're 2nd, you have to get REALLY lucky with a prediction or you're done. This is a very lame mechanic and anti-skill based. I don't see how KI could fix this, but I thought I'd bring it up. The real issue here is tempest. 80 damage per pip. Not too bad, right? 2 pip tempest, even if it was a critical, would do 400 damage. How's temp spamming bad? Enchant it with colossal. A 2 pip colossal tempest critical does 1000 damage. With 500+ critical, you crit EVERY TIME (I'm lvl 50.)There is no counter to this, and once again, very lame/anti-skillbased. Solution? Tempest can't be enchanted. (at least in pvp.)

PvP is dying. A lot of my veteran friends have quit because they simply cant play. These are only a few of the issues.
I agree that PVP is dying. It is just going down.
But I do not think x pip spells are a problem. They were around even when the level cap was 50, if I am not mistaken. All schools have at least one x pip spell, so you can't talk about tempest like that.
Also, honestly, without judgement for my balance, I would have quit the game already because it would be too hard for me. What spell am I supposed to use to knock out a 7,000 health boss? Balance has no other way at least at my level, which is Grandmaster.
And maybe critcal shouldn't be allowed in PVP but it is still a thing you need to have in the higher level worlds.
I do agree that the match making system is corrupt, though.

Defender
Aug 03, 2011
103
I remember a post a while back(before Avalon I think) about a new podium in pvp called Old School. It would be all gear, spells, and pet talents that were there before celestia. No critical, no rediculous gear, and unenchanted spells that would play a more strategic role in pvp. I feel if this was introduced, your problems would be fixed. And people would actually earn good gear. If this was an option nowadays, pvp could be much more enjoyable. Thankfully, they did kill off stun spamming before CL. Anyways, this idea would be your dream pvp, and so I give you this gift to think about. Until then, happy questing!

Explorer
Apr 21, 2011
56
get rid of all the mastery amulets. and stop beguile tc use. and somehow make a spell to cleanse beguile cleanse charm beguile maybe not sure about that yet. also make it where every school has the same talents. I mean all schools have same damage same resistance and so on like that low level gear that diego has. but if mastery amulets are not allowed it would change a lot. and don't tell me to adept to the game I been doing that for a long time. beguile is a lame cheap shot and everyone knows it the only people that like beguile is the ones that use it and death should be the only ones using it

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
gorman moonweaver on Aug 15, 2014 wrote:
get rid of all the mastery amulets. and stop beguile tc use. and somehow make a spell to cleanse beguile cleanse charm beguile maybe not sure about that yet. also make it where every school has the same talents. I mean all schools have same damage same resistance and so on like that low level gear that diego has. but if mastery amulets are not allowed it would change a lot. and don't tell me to adept to the game I been doing that for a long time. beguile is a lame cheap shot and everyone knows it the only people that like beguile is the ones that use it and death should be the only ones using it
Is this real or are you just trolling?
Mastery amulets are a major staple of PvP. They're how most wizards heal. Get your own and bring life/myth dispels.
Beguile in all forms is fine and does not need a nerf. Its effectiveness is based entirely on how well the target is paying attention. If you do pay attention, worst case scenario is it's a 3 pip stun, or you can even blade or shield and make the Beguile caster look like a fool.
This is not NASCAR. Each school does different things, deal with it.
Try adapting and not adepting.

Champion
Jul 13, 2013
415
gorman moonweaver on Aug 15, 2014 wrote:
get rid of all the mastery amulets. and stop beguile tc use. and somehow make a spell to cleanse beguile cleanse charm beguile maybe not sure about that yet. also make it where every school has the same talents. I mean all schools have same damage same resistance and so on like that low level gear that diego has. but if mastery amulets are not allowed it would change a lot. and don't tell me to adept to the game I been doing that for a long time. beguile is a lame cheap shot and everyone knows it the only people that like beguile is the ones that use it and death should be the only ones using it
Okay seriously? All schools have something to make them different, they can not have the same health and damage and resistance, that's just crazy. And also if someone took the time to go to the store and buy crowns with real money, they ought to have the right to use their amulets in PVP.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Noohb on Aug 9, 2014 wrote:
I'm a veteran player. I've played since summer of 2008. I've loved this game... but one thing more than anything else. Player VS Player. I'm a multiplayer guy, I really don't see fun in questing/leveling up/doing campaign (any singleplayer tbh.) I would play PvP like NONE other when the level cap was 50. When the level cap was 50, skilled players were rewarded heavily, and it showed with people climbing to incredible ranks. However, as the level cap increased, pvp took a downfall.

Problem #1. critical was introduced. Critical, a chance to do double the damage you would normally be doing. Now, it was annoying getting criticaled, but it didn't happen very often at level 60. However, soon, the level caps started increasing. 70.. critical becoming more of a factor. 80.. block gear becomes very important.. then, 90. Unblockable critical. This is not necessary. Not at all. Why would anyone ever need 600 critical? It blows my mind that KingsIsle, having a history of making this game amazing, would ever, EVER see the need to implement this. Why?

Problem #2. matchmaking. Before I start, no. This will not be me complaining about how I keep getting matched up against warlords and I'm stuck in private. Believe me, it isn't hard to get out of private. If you're a private vs a warlord, the warlord is 10-30 levels lower than you, giving you an incredible advantage. This leads into my point. The matchmaking needs to be divided by levels, and when I say need, I mean NEED. Requirement. There is NO WAY that me, being a level 50 ice, and my friend, another level 50 ice can defend against 2 storms with 500 critical that go through our conviction repeatedly and can deal a collective 2000 damage per turn with a one pip Tempest. BTW, if I do grandmaster 2v2, I get exalted every time, no matter what I do. Even with the box checked/unchecked. If I do 20 pvp matches, 15 will be against exalted privates, 4 will be against archmage/transcendent warlords (who can still crit through my conviction,) and 1 will be against grandmasters. But, that one match is so intense and fun, it's almost worth it.

Problem #3 X-Pip spells. Judgement, tempest. Ridiculous. A Balance with a myth mastery can stacks feints then shatter. This can be countered if you're first, but if you're 2nd, you have to get REALLY lucky with a prediction or you're done. This is a very lame mechanic and anti-skill based. I don't see how KI could fix this, but I thought I'd bring it up. The real issue here is tempest. 80 damage per pip. Not too bad, right? 2 pip tempest, even if it was a critical, would do 400 damage. How's temp spamming bad? Enchant it with colossal. A 2 pip colossal tempest critical does 1000 damage. With 500+ critical, you crit EVERY TIME (I'm lvl 50.)There is no counter to this, and once again, very lame/anti-skillbased. Solution? Tempest can't be enchanted. (at least in pvp.)

PvP is dying. A lot of my veteran friends have quit because they simply cant play. These are only a few of the issues.
So, I haven't posted in a while, but after reading some posts, this one caught my eye, as it's a similar problem to what I'm facing. I've played the game for quite a while, and also play the game mostly for PvP. I didn't PvP back in Celestia, but have since about Zafaria. Critical is another element of luck to a game where many things are already based on luck. A critical every once in a while back in avalon was fine-damaging, but usually not game-ending. However, currently, critical and high damage boost make it so that players die too quickly without using strategies such as bad juju spam or other similar strategies to use some of the more complicated strategies that used to be more in play. I have had warlords at levels 50 and 60 at over 2,000 rating, so I know firsthand how bad the matching can be. My death (Level 62, at about 1800 rating) has gotten warlords at over level 70 with over 1,000 rank. When I'm not getting matches like that, I generally get exalted players, and some of them are skilled. With their massive spell and stat advantages, I stand no chance against this type of player even if I was a much higher rank. I don't really find X-Pip spells to be unfair. Sure, a balance can stack feints, but you can easily empower or sacrifice. When I did 2v2 on my max level ice, my friend and I battled 2 jades (Life and death) that would spam bad juju, heal whenever we attacked, and, when they got enough shadow pips, stack 4 feints and attempt to shatter and then dark nova to kill one of us (It may not be the exact scenario you are describing, but it is fairly close). With empower and sacrifice, my friend and I were able to beat them twice in a row, once from first and once from second. Not many of my friends have quit the game yet, but if PvP continues to go downhill, many more veteran PvP players will leave.

Survivor
Mar 07, 2014
6
Errol Everhart on Aug 10, 2014 wrote:
You need to learn to adapt, my friend.
Learn to adapt? i have a feeling that you are one of those guys with 600+ critical and spam tempest. lol

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
Noohb on Aug 9, 2014 wrote:
I'm a veteran player. I've played since summer of 2008. I've loved this game... but one thing more than anything else. Player VS Player. I'm a multiplayer guy, I really don't see fun in questing/leveling up/doing campaign (any singleplayer tbh.) I would play PvP like NONE other when the level cap was 50. When the level cap was 50, skilled players were rewarded heavily, and it showed with people climbing to incredible ranks. However, as the level cap increased, pvp took a downfall.

Problem #1. critical was introduced. Critical, a chance to do double the damage you would normally be doing. Now, it was annoying getting criticaled, but it didn't happen very often at level 60. However, soon, the level caps started increasing. 70.. critical becoming more of a factor. 80.. block gear becomes very important.. then, 90. Unblockable critical. This is not necessary. Not at all. Why would anyone ever need 600 critical? It blows my mind that KingsIsle, having a history of making this game amazing, would ever, EVER see the need to implement this. Why?

Problem #2. matchmaking. Before I start, no. This will not be me complaining about how I keep getting matched up against warlords and I'm stuck in private. Believe me, it isn't hard to get out of private. If you're a private vs a warlord, the warlord is 10-30 levels lower than you, giving you an incredible advantage. This leads into my point. The matchmaking needs to be divided by levels, and when I say need, I mean NEED. Requirement. There is NO WAY that me, being a level 50 ice, and my friend, another level 50 ice can defend against 2 storms with 500 critical that go through our conviction repeatedly and can deal a collective 2000 damage per turn with a one pip Tempest. BTW, if I do grandmaster 2v2, I get exalted every time, no matter what I do. Even with the box checked/unchecked. If I do 20 pvp matches, 15 will be against exalted privates, 4 will be against archmage/transcendent warlords (who can still crit through my conviction,) and 1 will be against grandmasters. But, that one match is so intense and fun, it's almost worth it.

Problem #3 X-Pip spells. Judgement, tempest. Ridiculous. A Balance with a myth mastery can stacks feints then shatter. This can be countered if you're first, but if you're 2nd, you have to get REALLY lucky with a prediction or you're done. This is a very lame mechanic and anti-skill based. I don't see how KI could fix this, but I thought I'd bring it up. The real issue here is tempest. 80 damage per pip. Not too bad, right? 2 pip tempest, even if it was a critical, would do 400 damage. How's temp spamming bad? Enchant it with colossal. A 2 pip colossal tempest critical does 1000 damage. With 500+ critical, you crit EVERY TIME (I'm lvl 50.)There is no counter to this, and once again, very lame/anti-skillbased. Solution? Tempest can't be enchanted. (at least in pvp.)

PvP is dying. A lot of my veteran friends have quit because they simply cant play. These are only a few of the issues.
Enchant any 2 pip spell with Colossal and you do a lot with critical. Insane Bolt and Wild Bolt do up to 2550 base with a colossal critical. Fire Elf does 1170. Storm Bats does 1120. Troll does 970. Scorpion does 950. Snow Serpent and Leprechaun do 940. Tempest does 870. Ghoul does only 684 but you get 342 healing too. Tempest isn't really an issue.

Explorer
Apr 21, 2011
56
can you possibly put a link directly to message boards? there are a lot of people that do not no what this is or where it is