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Stop matching level 50-60's with 98+

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
I get it, my rating is somewhat high. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm pretty much guaranteed to lose as a level 63 necromancer against a level 100 storm that hits me on the second turn with artorious and kills me instantly. And you thought insane bolt was bad. These matches are so.. bizarre. With the new spells that got introduced for these high levels I don't see how mid level characters stand a chance.

Seriously please take this into consideration by fixing the matching system or by introducing more any-level spells.

Additionally, death school seems to get the short end of the stick every time some update takes place and I'd like to see it evened up a bit. Whoopee, lord of knight hits for a whole 25 extra points now and the equivalent spell for all the other schools get an increase AND an effect. A million weak drain spells that take SO many pips to cast isn't what the death school needs. I'm sorry to always seem to be complaining but I'd really like to see some things reevaluated in this game. Thanks

:)

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
The matching system is awful and would be hilarious if it weren't so frustrating.

It will remain awful until the developers implement new functions. Lots of options have been discussed, but none have received any feedback from the KI team. In my view, the best option is to use a learning formula that records the kinds of opponents you lose to, then prevent matchups with that kind of opponent in the future. Note, this does not mean you will be matched with easier opponents, it just means (for example) that you'll be matched with people who can't use shadow magic, or who don't have 100% critical rating. Players at competitive levels for your abilities would still be fair game.

Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
I'm just tired of getting matched with the same player for 10 matches in a row, always going second and losing every time. Someone actually said to me that the level difference didn't matter since I had (some) warlord gear equipped. Are you kidding me? It's like putting a level 20 warlord against a level 60 private and calling it a fair match, the odds are just stacked. Some sort of learning formula would be an awesome improvement.

As expected, the new shadow school spells that can be cast over and over again with little downtime are a real bummer for players at my level.

Oh and I misspoke, lord of night hits for 15 points now. Great.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
Lucas Rain on Nov 20, 2014 wrote:
The matching system is awful and would be hilarious if it weren't so frustrating.

It will remain awful until the developers implement new functions. Lots of options have been discussed, but none have received any feedback from the KI team. In my view, the best option is to use a learning formula that records the kinds of opponents you lose to, then prevent matchups with that kind of opponent in the future. Note, this does not mean you will be matched with easier opponents, it just means (for example) that you'll be matched with people who can't use shadow magic, or who don't have 100% critical rating. Players at competitive levels for your abilities would still be fair game.
With all respect I must say it is impossible to do.
If such was implemented by KI it would put a tremendous strain on Match Making.
When 2nd age came out it completely messed up everything.
People with 1 win became warlords. It was horrible.
The only way to fix this would be set a level brackets. Based of Badges.
If person has Legendary Badge then he will face other people with legendary badge. I know the code for this
as I also play other games (didn't find if I can post names of other games in these forums so for the sake of it I didn't post the name) In that game I can create my own games. I created Wizard101 with some implementations into it. It took me 2 years to do the scripting and coding for it. So I know how the game works.
With that being said and my experience and know following scripting languages: Lua, Phyntom(Really simular ot Lua), and Java. I can easily say that in order for such thing to be fixed you need to create a 3rd Age pvp.
With all the changes and all the set ups to current pvp. Everyone is complaining about pvp. If you ask me I also feel that it should be fixed however I rather it be the way it is then be broken the way it was when 2nd age came out.
-----------------
Nicholas Star

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
mykola230 on Nov 21, 2014 wrote:
With all respect I must say it is impossible to do.
If such was implemented by KI it would put a tremendous strain on Match Making.
When 2nd age came out it completely messed up everything.
People with 1 win became warlords. It was horrible.
The only way to fix this would be set a level brackets. Based of Badges.
If person has Legendary Badge then he will face other people with legendary badge. I know the code for this
as I also play other games (didn't find if I can post names of other games in these forums so for the sake of it I didn't post the name) In that game I can create my own games. I created Wizard101 with some implementations into it. It took me 2 years to do the scripting and coding for it. So I know how the game works.
With that being said and my experience and know following scripting languages: Lua, Phyntom(Really simular ot Lua), and Java. I can easily say that in order for such thing to be fixed you need to create a 3rd Age pvp.
With all the changes and all the set ups to current pvp. Everyone is complaining about pvp. If you ask me I also feel that it should be fixed however I rather it be the way it is then be broken the way it was when 2nd age came out.
-----------------
Nicholas Star
That's a very interesting suggestion, good call. You're correct, the badges players have earned could be used to inform the matchmaking system. Someone with a "Grandmaster" or a "Savior of the Spiral" as their highest completed badge should not be paired with someone who is only a "Three Streets Savior."

I hope KI is watching. It'd be fun if they gave you a call to help implement this.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
Lucas Rain on Nov 22, 2014 wrote:
That's a very interesting suggestion, good call. You're correct, the badges players have earned could be used to inform the matchmaking system. Someone with a "Grandmaster" or a "Savior of the Spiral" as their highest completed badge should not be paired with someone who is only a "Three Streets Savior."

I hope KI is watching. It'd be fun if they gave you a call to help implement this.
:) Thanks. Oh and I didn't mean to sound mean or upset. I just stated my thoughts.

Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
I have certain badges from helping higher level players out with their quests, so I'm not really sure how that would be used to inform the matchmaking system accurately. At my level I really shouldn't be fighting 100's. They're not fair fights at all. I like a challenge, but come on.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
JOPIX227 on Nov 25, 2014 wrote:
I have certain badges from helping higher level players out with their quests, so I'm not really sure how that would be used to inform the matchmaking system accurately. At my level I really shouldn't be fighting 100's. They're not fair fights at all. I like a challenge, but come on.
The badges I am talking about is level badges.
Here are the following:
Level: Badge:
1-4 Novice With these you also see one more thing: School Name. However in Latin
5-9 Apprentice In Latin Pyro is Fire so for fire school you see Pyromancer.
10-14 Novice Pyromancer (Yes, I play fire and don't know how to spell it)
15-19 Journeyman Thomaturg (Not sure how to spell that)
20-29 Adept Necromancer
30-39 Magus Srocerrer (Not sure how to spell that)
40-49 Master Conjurer
50-59 Grandmaster Theurgist (Have no Idea how to spell that)
60-69 Legendary Diviner
70-79 Transcended
80-89 Archmage
90-99 Promethean
100 Exalted

Following come together so if you ever wondered how people have badges that look like this
Legendary Diviner or Master Conjurer well these are level badges.
Also with that being said.
Here is a little more of how things should look like:
Legendary should always fight Legendary.
Exalted should always fight Exalted
Masters should always fight Masters and so on and so on.
(For those that don't want this system. Wizard101 already implemented a special matchmaking)
That matchmaking is our of the brackets.
Now I am not sure about it however I do believe that lvl 1 could fight lvl 100. If I am mistaken please correct me.

Nicholas Star

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
The solution to this "problem" is for the level 50 warlords to level their characters up and get shadow magic for themselves. Sorry to have to break the news to you.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
ChicoValerian on Nov 25, 2014 wrote:
The solution to this "problem" is for the level 50 warlords to level their characters up and get shadow magic for themselves. Sorry to have to break the news to you.
Well Is that your suggestion or that what you think? Or where did you get this information?
Nicholas Star

Delver
Oct 11, 2010
289
ChicoValerian on Nov 25, 2014 wrote:
The solution to this "problem" is for the level 50 warlords to level their characters up and get shadow magic for themselves. Sorry to have to break the news to you.
This is not an answer here. Many of us have multiple level 100 wizards and some in between. I myself have this same problem. I dont pvp at max because its all about damage and critical who can one shot the other faster is all. Even more of an issue with the new shadow pip spells and luck going first.

I played a 60 death to almost 3000 ranking its IMPOSSIBLE to win any match for me now I played a 50 to about the same level having the same issue fighting level 95-100 wizards. How can a 50-60 win? even going first it wont matter convet is not going to block someone with 650 critical 115 damage doing 2 pip zaps for over 6k damage I think i have 134 or so block on my 60 PVP in the best possible gear you can get from pvp shop. 134 may block low 500's but rarely. now i have a 30 i pvp on and face low to mid 60's its not too impossible though a challenge. And i have to build a good hit and use select tc to win.

I think they need to take out the extra pip for going second and put in a simple game that each wizard plays rock paper scissors who ever wins that goes first thats a simple fix there. Have wizards fight within 10 levels of each other no extreme differences.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
ChicoValerian on Nov 25, 2014 wrote:
The solution to this "problem" is for the level 50 warlords to level their characters up and get shadow magic for themselves. Sorry to have to break the news to you.
ChicoValerian,

That is exactly why they are at levels 5, 10, 30, 40, and 50, because they don't want to deal with
that type of play. Many don't like the chance or luck that plays into Critical, and want to win on
pure skill. That is why many have asked for brackets or levels, to limit or remove Critical from
their field of play.
Personally, I enjoy the chance to play at level 50 without running into Critical, especially a level 100
with High Critical, that is below 500. One critical is often a game changer that you cannot recover from.
So, yeah, leveling up has been done on five of my wizard to 100, but I want the rest at their lower level.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
As was already pointed out on other threads.
The number that is displayed there means nothing to critical chance or block chance.
It's the percentage. For example I fought a guy that had 649 critical. He critical every other turn. And I with my 231 block blocked every his turn.
Now he was shocked so I asked him to tell me what percentage he had. Well he had 49%. My Block is 56% What that means is that I will block him every single time. It's impossible for me not to block him. Therefore the numbers displayed on your stats mean almost nothing to fact of having a Critical Hit/Critical Block.
It's the percentage that matters. Now that is kind of off the topic here however I had to point that out.
And yes making a level brackets really does helps making only 10 levels difference in pvp does helps.
The problem of being second will still maintain though but it will be better by about 20%. How will that help being second? Well. Really simple. Imagine pvp lvl 50 vs lvl 80 and lvl 50 goes second. Hmm really bad match up don't you think? But if lvl 80 vs lvl 80. Not as bad. or lvl 89 vs lvl 80 also not as bad as 50 vs 80.
The trick in second place is prediction and calculation. Also you must remember how many specific cards your opponent had used especially, and I repeat especially Treasure Cards. This should be done if you going first as well however it is very, very important if you are going from second position.
Also another thing how fast your opponent using reshuffles is also important. That will tell you how much he deletes his cards and aprox how large his deck is.
If Lucas Rain reads this I would like to hear his opinion about it.

Nicholas Star

Defender
Aug 03, 2011
103
To be fair, every system has its faults. For instance, a game that has a rank matchmaking system(like Hearthstone ranked), can have very highly skilled players, or people with lost of experience, hover around a specific rank and troll, or try something annoying/crazy against people that lack this skill. A game that is based on level matchmaking can have some players make a new account/character, and play against people who don't have as much experience. At the same time, you can't just be level 50 with 5000 and expect to only go up against 59's with 2000 rank, because you're much more skilled. In a game that's been out for years with 50,000,000 players, you can't expect an exact double to just walk around waiting to pvp you at the exact same time you play. In my Opinion, the matchmaking is fine, but I think there isn't enough "game modes". What we're looking for is an option to add more balanced pvp, with different rules than the one we're used to now(sort of like the tournaments). Possibly a new game mode modeled after first age pvp, like one that resets health back to level 50, and only allows pre-CL gear. If that's possible, lot's of people would be happy.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
mykola230 on Nov 26, 2014 wrote:
As was already pointed out on other threads.
The number that is displayed there means nothing to critical chance or block chance.
It's the percentage. For example I fought a guy that had 649 critical. He critical every other turn. And I with my 231 block blocked every his turn.
Now he was shocked so I asked him to tell me what percentage he had. Well he had 49%. My Block is 56% What that means is that I will block him every single time. It's impossible for me not to block him. Therefore the numbers displayed on your stats mean almost nothing to fact of having a Critical Hit/Critical Block.
It's the percentage that matters. Now that is kind of off the topic here however I had to point that out.
And yes making a level brackets really does helps making only 10 levels difference in pvp does helps.
The problem of being second will still maintain though but it will be better by about 20%. How will that help being second? Well. Really simple. Imagine pvp lvl 50 vs lvl 80 and lvl 50 goes second. Hmm really bad match up don't you think? But if lvl 80 vs lvl 80. Not as bad. or lvl 89 vs lvl 80 also not as bad as 50 vs 80.
The trick in second place is prediction and calculation. Also you must remember how many specific cards your opponent had used especially, and I repeat especially Treasure Cards. This should be done if you going first as well however it is very, very important if you are going from second position.
Also another thing how fast your opponent using reshuffles is also important. That will tell you how much he deletes his cards and aprox how large his deck is.
If Lucas Rain reads this I would like to hear his opinion about it.

Nicholas Star
I am in agreement, bad matchups are even worse when your opponents possess abilities and spells you do not have. Treasure cards and strategy tighten the gap between you and your opponent, but fail to close it.

Perhaps the biggest issue is the extremely rapid increase wizards see in their critical abilities from Level 59 to Level 60, and again afterward. It's another huge jump from Archmage gear to Tartarus gear. These steep discrepancies make it so many matchups are plainly unfair. For example, it is never appropriate for someone with Shadow magic to face someone without Shadow magic. It's too one-sided.

In my opinion, here's how the default settings should be. It's a more strict system than the game currently uses, and takes your level ranges by badge into account.
  • Wizards who have earned the Promethean badge should never be matched against anyone lower than Archmage.
  • Transcendent badge should never face a Master.
  • Legendary badge should never face a Magus.
  • Master badge should never face an Initiate.
  • Adept should only rarely face a Novice.
  • But, I think there should be an option you can select that switches you back to the current matching system, just in case you want to make incredibly unfair matches an option again.

Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
I'm interested in knowing how a grandmaster-legendary character could acquire that much critical block without sacrificing crucial statistics. Is it even possible in the first place? What gear?

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
Lucas Rain on Nov 27, 2014 wrote:
I am in agreement, bad matchups are even worse when your opponents possess abilities and spells you do not have. Treasure cards and strategy tighten the gap between you and your opponent, but fail to close it.

Perhaps the biggest issue is the extremely rapid increase wizards see in their critical abilities from Level 59 to Level 60, and again afterward. It's another huge jump from Archmage gear to Tartarus gear. These steep discrepancies make it so many matchups are plainly unfair. For example, it is never appropriate for someone with Shadow magic to face someone without Shadow magic. It's too one-sided.

In my opinion, here's how the default settings should be. It's a more strict system than the game currently uses, and takes your level ranges by badge into account.
  • Wizards who have earned the Promethean badge should never be matched against anyone lower than Archmage.
  • Transcendent badge should never face a Master.
  • Legendary badge should never face a Magus.
  • Master badge should never face an Initiate.
  • Adept should only rarely face a Novice.
  • But, I think there should be an option you can select that switches you back to the current matching system, just in case you want to make incredibly unfair matches an option again.
If it is unfair for someone without Shadow magic to face someone with it, why is it not also unfair for someone without Warlord gear to face someone with Warlord gear?

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
Veracity8 on Nov 26, 2014 wrote:
ChicoValerian,

That is exactly why they are at levels 5, 10, 30, 40, and 50, because they don't want to deal with
that type of play. Many don't like the chance or luck that plays into Critical, and want to win on
pure skill. That is why many have asked for brackets or levels, to limit or remove Critical from
their field of play.
Personally, I enjoy the chance to play at level 50 without running into Critical, especially a level 100
with High Critical, that is below 500. One critical is often a game changer that you cannot recover from.
So, yeah, leveling up has been done on five of my wizard to 100, but I want the rest at their lower level.
I have battled these warlords. If you consider the resist gear they are wearing to be "pure skill" then I guess I would have to agree with you.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
JOPIX227 on Nov 27, 2014 wrote:
I'm interested in knowing how a grandmaster-legendary character could acquire that much critical block without sacrificing crucial statistics. Is it even possible in the first place? What gear?
Yes it is possible.
Warlord gear would do it.
And then Duelist ring and Duelist Athame will work best for this.

Now it won't give you like crazy critical and block however it is much more than it used to be. And stats are pretty good too.

Nicholas Star

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
Lucas Rain on Nov 27, 2014 wrote:
I am in agreement, bad matchups are even worse when your opponents possess abilities and spells you do not have. Treasure cards and strategy tighten the gap between you and your opponent, but fail to close it.

Perhaps the biggest issue is the extremely rapid increase wizards see in their critical abilities from Level 59 to Level 60, and again afterward. It's another huge jump from Archmage gear to Tartarus gear. These steep discrepancies make it so many matchups are plainly unfair. For example, it is never appropriate for someone with Shadow magic to face someone without Shadow magic. It's too one-sided.

In my opinion, here's how the default settings should be. It's a more strict system than the game currently uses, and takes your level ranges by badge into account.
  • Wizards who have earned the Promethean badge should never be matched against anyone lower than Archmage.
  • Transcendent badge should never face a Master.
  • Legendary badge should never face a Magus.
  • Master badge should never face an Initiate.
  • Adept should only rarely face a Novice.
  • But, I think there should be an option you can select that switches you back to the current matching system, just in case you want to make incredibly unfair matches an option again.
Cool.
Now about your last part.
  • But, I think there should be an option you can select that switches you back to the current matching system, just in case you want to make incredibly unfair matches an option again.

  • Wizard101 already has implemented that option.

    When you join a match and wait for it. There is a match button comes out on the top right by the friend list.
    Well if you click on it your match information pops out. In the middle there is a school symbol (Yours)
    Well on that symbol there is little square if you check that square matchmaking will start looking for opponents outside of your skill range.
    That can work against you or for you.
    If it is 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. Then If at least 50% of players have checked that then matchmaking will start looking for unfair fight.

    Nicholas Star

    Survivor
    May 18, 2012
    40
    The difference between a level 60 something and level 100 is astronomical. You cannot expect to win a significant portion of these match ups regardless of any 'you're more experienced and skilled' excuses that have been provided so far. I'm sorry about any curtness, but I find it odd how anyone can honestly justify such an extreme discrepancy with that argument. How much skill or lack thereof is necessary to use two bolts in a row or a standard spell that packs twice as much punch as something I can cast? The shadow magic now adds another dimension of unfairness. Besides, the match-ups are factored by the rating of each player so I doubt you could call a level 100 with 200 wins and 500 losses inexperienced. It just ain't right...

    Survivor
    May 18, 2012
    40
    mykola230 on Nov 29, 2014 wrote:
    Yes it is possible.
    Warlord gear would do it.
    And then Duelist ring and Duelist Athame will work best for this.

    Now it won't give you like crazy critical and block however it is much more than it used to be. And stats are pretty good too.

    Nicholas Star
    You're mistaken, friend. I wear the boots, fatal razor, ring (aureate band actually provides slightly better block), and flashing blades. Waterworks hat and robe. This is the tried and true combination for legendary characters and it still does little to block 500-600 rating. The gear is just not there. I don't have luck with hatching so any sort of gap has to be filled with an insane sort of pet and that's just not where I'm at right now. The gear alone is not enough.

    Defender
    Sep 17, 2011
    143
    JOPIX227 on Nov 30, 2014 wrote:
    You're mistaken, friend. I wear the boots, fatal razor, ring (aureate band actually provides slightly better block), and flashing blades. Waterworks hat and robe. This is the tried and true combination for legendary characters and it still does little to block 500-600 rating. The gear is just not there. I don't have luck with hatching so any sort of gap has to be filled with an insane sort of pet and that's just not where I'm at right now. The gear alone is not enough.
    I must agree and at the same time disagree.
    Truth to be told it is possible and on my level 60 life I am Warlord with 2,243 rating.
    Most of the time I either face people with the same level and rating or levels 90+.
    Yet I rarely loose to them. The factor that determines I win or loose in that situation is my cards, and if I go first or second. I've been saying this countless number of times that All the famous numbers you see there that have 500 or 600 mean nothing to critical or block. It's the percentage and that is based of individual items. It's not the numbers that get compared if you block or not it's the percentage.
    On my lvl 60 Life I have Block of 197 and yet I rarely have problems blocking 400 critical that people have. Why? because percentage. My block is 51%. I may sometimes not block 300 critical because he has something like maybe 52% (that is really rare if there is 1% difference, but it is possible) So what is that suggest? Numbers mean nothing it's the overall percentage. And that is based of individual items.
    I beat level 100's with my lvl 50 Fire. Doesn't happen allot but it does happen.
    Pet is one of the most important win/loose factor in pvp. And I do suggest work on it. It will help you in pvp against those Shadow Magics.

    Nicholas Star

    Survivor
    May 18, 2012
    40
    mykola230 on Dec 1, 2014 wrote:
    I must agree and at the same time disagree.
    Truth to be told it is possible and on my level 60 life I am Warlord with 2,243 rating.
    Most of the time I either face people with the same level and rating or levels 90+.
    Yet I rarely loose to them. The factor that determines I win or loose in that situation is my cards, and if I go first or second. I've been saying this countless number of times that All the famous numbers you see there that have 500 or 600 mean nothing to critical or block. It's the percentage and that is based of individual items. It's not the numbers that get compared if you block or not it's the percentage.
    On my lvl 60 Life I have Block of 197 and yet I rarely have problems blocking 400 critical that people have. Why? because percentage. My block is 51%. I may sometimes not block 300 critical because he has something like maybe 52% (that is really rare if there is 1% difference, but it is possible) So what is that suggest? Numbers mean nothing it's the overall percentage. And that is based of individual items.
    I beat level 100's with my lvl 50 Fire. Doesn't happen allot but it does happen.
    Pet is one of the most important win/loose factor in pvp. And I do suggest work on it. It will help you in pvp against those Shadow Magics.

    Nicholas Star
    Regardless, full warlord gear provides somewhere around 135 block, about 30%. It can't get much higher without a pet with double critical block on it. This is how it is. I have had mid 100's able to get past that, and conviction doesn't work a fair amount of the time.

    I hear what you're saying about percentages, but the gear does not provide them. The gear that has these sort of stats is meant for high level characters. These high level players should ONLY be facing other higher level players. You will not find a level 50-60 with 230 block.

    Again, to the point, I really don't understand how it's okay that I get matched with players nearly 40 levels higher than me, yet I've never been matched with a level 30 or 40. I'm not asking to either, but don't put legendary characters against exalted ones and call it a fair game. third age pvp with stricter boundaries is seriously in order

    Defender
    Sep 17, 2011
    143
    JOPIX227 on Dec 3, 2014 wrote:
    Regardless, full warlord gear provides somewhere around 135 block, about 30%. It can't get much higher without a pet with double critical block on it. This is how it is. I have had mid 100's able to get past that, and conviction doesn't work a fair amount of the time.

    I hear what you're saying about percentages, but the gear does not provide them. The gear that has these sort of stats is meant for high level characters. These high level players should ONLY be facing other higher level players. You will not find a level 50-60 with 230 block.

    Again, to the point, I really don't understand how it's okay that I get matched with players nearly 40 levels higher than me, yet I've never been matched with a level 30 or 40. I'm not asking to either, but don't put legendary characters against exalted ones and call it a fair game. third age pvp with stricter boundaries is seriously in order
    And once more I disagree.
    Well you can find player with 230 block. Lol in fact I have it.
    Of course to have it I sacrificed mt critical and that means I only have 60 critical.
    But yes it is possible. As I posted above It isn't easy to defeat a level 100 while playing as lvl 60.
    And I also want to make it clear. I do not say it is a fair match. However What I am trying to do here is give another point of view that even though hard and totally on luck you can defeat a player 100 while playing as level 60. I done it, I've seen my friends do it (even from second position). That is what I am saying. You seem to want to get into a fight with me, because you think I am calling it fair. All I am stating that it is unfair to fight lvl 100 as lvl 60 however it is possible to win. That is my point. If anyone has different opinion feel free to post it.

    Nicholas Star

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