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Stop Asking KI to Ban or Level Cap Tcs

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Apr 26, 2010
17
Wolf Skullslinger on Aug 31, 2013 wrote:
No no, let me illustrate a scenario. You are a Balance level 30. You have 1600 rank, you hit up the arena. You jump in there and find yourself to be against a level 50 Warlord Myth this Myth uses Shatter (trained), Blades (trained), Shields (trained), and Weaknesses (trained). So they don't use any TC. But he/she uses Orthrus, which at level 50 IS trained. Now how am I supposed to beat that?? He/she has full Warlord gear (50-59 resist) so of course, I use infallible. After infallible I throw out enchanted savage paws. Please tell me that you can beat this person without using TC with a 20 level difference.

Yeah, thanks.
Wolf Legend
Alright. How about a cap where you can only use TC of the rank of one of the wizards. Therefor, if you are fighting a wizard who has their level 48 spell. They can only use their trained spells, because anything higher is capped. But you can use spells up to level 48. This would most likely not apply to things like Avalon utilities. Disagreements?

Astrologist
Oct 22, 2011
1073
Wolf Skullslinger on Aug 31, 2013 wrote:
No no, let me illustrate a scenario. You are a Balance level 30. You have 1600 rank, you hit up the arena. You jump in there and find yourself to be against a level 50 Warlord Myth this Myth uses Shatter (trained), Blades (trained), Shields (trained), and Weaknesses (trained). So they don't use any TC. But he/she uses Orthrus, which at level 50 IS trained. Now how am I supposed to beat that?? He/she has full Warlord gear (50-59 resist) so of course, I use infallible. After infallible I throw out enchanted savage paws. Please tell me that you can beat this person without using TC with a 20 level difference.

Yeah, thanks.
Wolf Legend
Yeah ....... it's called leveling your wizard, that's how you resolve the 20 level difference.

Survivor
May 15, 2010
4
While it may be a strategy it can also be annoying me and my level 74 friend were doing pvp I am level 76 and we kept getting paired against level 35 I think wizards who just spammed ice angle and other spells that were high level spells. I say there should be a level cap on treasure cards. If you want to use higher rank spells then EARN them! Instead of spending tons of gold on buying them. Also while gong against them their friends were making fun of us and yelling at us and calling us puppets even though we were both the same level.

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1359
Wolf Skullslinger on Aug 31, 2013 wrote:
No no, let me illustrate a scenario. You are a Balance level 30. You have 1600 rank, you hit up the arena. You jump in there and find yourself to be against a level 50 Warlord Myth this Myth uses Shatter (trained), Blades (trained), Shields (trained), and Weaknesses (trained). So they don't use any TC. But he/she uses Orthrus, which at level 50 IS trained. Now how am I supposed to beat that?? He/she has full Warlord gear (50-59 resist) so of course, I use infallible. After infallible I throw out enchanted savage paws. Please tell me that you can beat this person without using TC with a 20 level difference.

Yeah, thanks.
Wolf Legend
If you are a level 30 balance with 1600 rank, you will not face a level 50 warlord unless you have around a 20 minute wait. All warlords know this is stupid to wait 20 minutes, you should only let yourself wait a few mintues. Plus, that is defeatable. Weakness, feint, tc feint, and monstrous judge. Make sure you have doom up, and spam monstrous scorpions. As a 1100 rank (first age) balance level 30, I would know that works. But assuming you get a warlord, let's face it, you're doomed no matter what.

But now seeing the loremaster spells; this set would be incredibly easy to use.
Save up pips, shield and weakness while you're building up.
After this, pull out some TCs until you get what you want. (Monstrous, judge, loremaster, scorpion. No savage paw, that should only be in main deck)

At max pips, use a TC infallible (All warlords carry infallible now) and then spam the next 4 turns. Loremaster, Loremaster, Scorp/Loremaster, Judge/Scorp, doom and gloom. Then follow up with an infection, or small hit if your sidedeck works out. Kill before you get killed.

Realistically, this is not that tough. You're making it seem difficult and as if you have no tools at your disposal. It's as if all you use are high level TC. I was forced to on my noob because I saw their gnome pet or whatever, and if I'm second against 50% resist with a SPUDF gnome pet, you can't really do much spamming before they kill you. Pets do need a nerf in PvP though.

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
1320Wraith on Sep 1, 2013 wrote:
Woo, someone finally gets what the definition of a strategy is!
Yes I've got your back!

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
BrynnerOfReign on Sep 1, 2013 wrote:
Yeah ....... it's called leveling your wizard, that's how you resolve the 20 level difference.
Yeah......its called not having enough tickets. And what if I like level 30 PvP no one thought about that huh?

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
Rony The Turtle on Sep 3, 2013 wrote:
If you are a level 30 balance with 1600 rank, you will not face a level 50 warlord unless you have around a 20 minute wait. All warlords know this is stupid to wait 20 minutes, you should only let yourself wait a few mintues. Plus, that is defeatable. Weakness, feint, tc feint, and monstrous judge. Make sure you have doom up, and spam monstrous scorpions. As a 1100 rank (first age) balance level 30, I would know that works. But assuming you get a warlord, let's face it, you're doomed no matter what.

But now seeing the loremaster spells; this set would be incredibly easy to use.
Save up pips, shield and weakness while you're building up.
After this, pull out some TCs until you get what you want. (Monstrous, judge, loremaster, scorpion. No savage paw, that should only be in main deck)

At max pips, use a TC infallible (All warlords carry infallible now) and then spam the next 4 turns. Loremaster, Loremaster, Scorp/Loremaster, Judge/Scorp, doom and gloom. Then follow up with an infection, or small hit if your sidedeck works out. Kill before you get killed.

Realistically, this is not that tough. You're making it seem difficult and as if you have no tools at your disposal. It's as if all you use are high level TC. I was forced to on my noob because I saw their gnome pet or whatever, and if I'm second against 50% resist with a SPUDF gnome pet, you can't really do much spamming before they kill you. Pets do need a nerf in PvP though.
I wait 5 minutes on average. I assume you have no characters with 1600 rank at level 30 because I fight Warlords regularly who are level 50. Again, after about a 5 minute wait. I know my strategy better than you do, I have beaten Warlords of this level but I hardly ever go first so I can't pull out an infection or a weakness at the last minute. Also, I point out that max pips typically allows for 1 savage paw followed by another then I am required to wait 2 turns. (level 30 pips even with full commander gear isn't great) part of the challenge of this is that I have fought one level 50 Warlord from first. Once. So when you get to the point I am at, come give me a call and we will try again.

Wolf Legend, yes I know what I'm doing, how did I get that much rank in the first place?

Survivor
Aug 15, 2012
18
The only problem I have with treasure cards is that people not of the life school like to use our healing spells. It seriously irks me to a point where I just want to yell at that player for even having it. Treasure cards plain and simple have RUINED every schools uniqueness by allowing schools to be able to use other schools school-only spells, and stronger versions at that. I also hate it when a non-life wizard wants to play healer, when there is already a theurgist in the group, and even worse they have a life mastery amulet. Life wizards will always be better than any other wizard at healing, no one can beat our healing so why do they even try too be wannabe life wizards. If you want to heal be a theurgist, same if ya want to do lots of damage go for storm. Rebirth , dryad, and regenerate seriously need to be removed , as well as every other school only spell, with these ridiculous pets and them casting a fairy 4x in a row every time their owner gets hit, there is no need for our healing tc's to be used. even worse yet is now there are these new amulets that work just like mastery amulets but give stats to a person's wizard. life mastery's where enough but now KI had to go and make a glorified version of it, great -_-. People are so hypocritical when it comes down to healing and life wizards. on one side they say we life wizards are about healing and the damage schools are fire and storm, but the same crowd want to argue against us life wizards if we complain about life masteries and healing tc's(rebirth, dryad, and regenerate) and pet healing. You can't have it both ways, either all school only spells are removed as tc's or limit the pet healing rate, as it doesn't matter how hard someone worked to get their perfect pet, a pet should not be able to cause a major turning point in a pvp battle. I am sorry if I completely changed the subject here, but I just needed to let it out.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Monquistans78 on Aug 17, 2013 wrote:
Whenever I go to this section of the message boards, I always see very ignorant and not thought out posts telling Kingsisle to level cap treasure cards or "gasp" BAN them from pvp matches. First off, level capping treasure cards would completely ruin them. The point of treasure cards is to be able to use spells that either you can`t learn yet, or wizards of your school can`t ever learn. Also, Kingsisle will never ever ban treasure cards from pvp simply because they are a strategy that everyone that has access to them can use. I feel I`ve covered everything.
Agreed.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
BrynnerOfReign on Aug 25, 2013 wrote:
So, my question is, why are you still only a level 8? Is it because at that level in PvP, the battles are fast and you can go for an easy win?

Although the system of PvP matches leaves a lot to be desired, it's no ones problem but yours if you are only a level 8 and are fighting 30+. How to solve that? Level up to earn your spells and be able to use more types for battles instead of relying on high level TC that you haven't even earned yet.
This was just an example. If you'd like another example, imagine a level 33 death warlord. One of my characters. I sometimes battle level 50+ ices. How would I take somone with 3000+ health and usually 20+ resist with rank 5 and under spells? Lower levels simply cannot deal enough damage with the spells that they're given to combat much higher level low rank opponents. Also, if treasure cards were limited/level capped/banned, fire and balance would become extremely overpowered at low-medium levels. Per pip high damage spells are things that only they get. (I don't count tempest as it is not particularly high damage, it is better for team matches) These schools would get easy wins against people their level, because they could just blade up and do massive damage. Other schools would be stuck using low pip attacks that really do not do very much damage and could just be even more weakened using shields or weaknesses. Try taking on extremely high level people with 1-5 pip spells. I'd love to see you try to win with that little damage.

Explorer
Aug 25, 2012
66
Charles the Healer on Aug 24, 2013 wrote:
Okay. Let me illustrate a scenario.

I am playing a level 33 Death, ranked Knight. I am not using TC aside from Reshuffle.
I am playing against a level 47 Myth, ranked Private.

I start off battle by playing semi-defensive, mostly blading but throwing down a shield or weakness here and there. My opponent grabs a Mythblade, a Spirit Blade, and a Feint TC on me. They use their Ice wand spell two times to break through my shields/weaknesses. I cast Vampire, in the hopes of lowering their health enough to make them heal. However, being level 47, they have 2,672 Health, and my Vampire does little damage. They cast Medusa TC, nearly killing me oneshot. While I am healing myself, they blade up and Medusa again, killing me.
What I did: Played defensively, and bladed for a hit. Attacked, and dealt decent damage.
What they did: Bladed, tanked some hits, and used a TC.

It takes no skill at all to spam 8 Pip TC's. However, due to the number of people doing this, it takes incredible skill to rank up in PvP. My opinion: A level cap on TC's, but one that applies to the level of the wizards. For example: No Rnk. 7 or higher spells unless both competing wizards are level 50 or higher. If spamming high level TC is your entire strategy ..? Come on. As I said before, it takes almost no skill at all.
This sentence is entirely my opinion, but I think any Warlord who wins all their fights with a TC doesn't deserve their rank.
I'll have to agree with this post.

Defender
Mar 08, 2013
114
BrynnerOfReign on Aug 18, 2013 wrote:
I do see both sides of the argument, but I would agree that a level cap on treasure cards would be appropriate. Plus, there are already TC's that are banned from PvP.

Level caps would not ruin TC's, nor PvP. Being able to play spells within your level would actually be better overall for PvP. People would have to learn strategy, which is sorely lacking these days.

The point of treasure cards is to have a few extra spells/charms/wards for easy access, within and outside of your school.

What you are pointing out is that TC's are only for spells you can't learn yet from your own school, or off-school's you can never learn (at least, that's what it sounds like). I believe that's a very one-sided view of the purpose of TC's. Besides, there are off-school spells that can never be used unless you can afford a mastery amulet.

PvP isn't all about TC's. It's about strategy and how you are able to play your school.
I think the caps on spells should be appropriate the your level. ex. lvl 1 capped at a 2 or 3 pip spell because their highest attack is a 1 pip or a lvl 33 capped at 7 pip (because life gets their 6 pip at lvl 33)

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
TC above anybody's lvl should be banned in pvp. I don't see how so many people think tcs should be used in pvp.

Wolf RavenBreath93

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
Wolf Skullslinger on Aug 31, 2013 wrote:
No no, let me illustrate a scenario. You are a Balance level 30. You have 1600 rank, you hit up the arena. You jump in there and find yourself to be against a level 50 Warlord Myth this Myth uses Shatter (trained), Blades (trained), Shields (trained), and Weaknesses (trained). So they don't use any TC. But he/she uses Orthrus, which at level 50 IS trained. Now how am I supposed to beat that?? He/she has full Warlord gear (50-59 resist) so of course, I use infallible. After infallible I throw out enchanted savage paws. Please tell me that you can beat this person without using TC with a 20 level difference.

Yeah, thanks.
Wolf Legend
first of all, you never get paired up with somebody that high or low in ranked pvp. second, i'm not even sure orthrus is trained at that lvl. weakness is not trained for the myth school. Since you are balance, you should know that since balance is actually the school that receives weakness. Hope I made my point.

Wolf RavenBreath 93

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4113
master of the sabe... on Dec 7, 2013 wrote:
TC above anybody's lvl should be banned in pvp. I don't see how so many people think tcs should be used in pvp.

Wolf RavenBreath93
Because banning them like that would just unbalance pvp even more than it already is. Until they match like levels and ranks, TC are a valid balance for all levels and ranks. TC are a part of the game and strategy, just because you choose not to use them doesn't make them unfair. ANYONE can farm or buy them. I personally don't understand why anyone thinks they should be banned from pvp. Everyone has 100% equal access to them, there's absolutely NOTHING unfair about their use.

Defender
Mar 08, 2013
114
seethe42 on Dec 7, 2013 wrote:
Because banning them like that would just unbalance pvp even more than it already is. Until they match like levels and ranks, TC are a valid balance for all levels and ranks. TC are a part of the game and strategy, just because you choose not to use them doesn't make them unfair. ANYONE can farm or buy them. I personally don't understand why anyone thinks they should be banned from pvp. Everyone has 100% equal access to them, there's absolutely NOTHING unfair about their use.
I get that everyone can get them, but for low levels, the ONLY way to win is to use high level tc. I don't like how there is only ONE strategy that works for low level pvp. That's why I think there should be a level cap on certain tc.

Champion
Dec 03, 2012
488
Monquistans78 on Aug 17, 2013 wrote:
Whenever I go to this section of the message boards, I always see very ignorant and not thought out posts telling Kingsisle to level cap treasure cards or "gasp" BAN them from pvp matches. First off, level capping treasure cards would completely ruin them. The point of treasure cards is to be able to use spells that either you can`t learn yet, or wizards of your school can`t ever learn. Also, Kingsisle will never ever ban treasure cards from pvp simply because they are a strategy that everyone that has access to them can use. I feel I`ve covered everything.
I agree. Treasure Cards are meant to be over your level. If you level cap them, then the only upside is that they'd to a tad more damage.

Molly level 84 balance

Survivor
Feb 11, 2013
18
I am on the fence on this argument. I think yes because it can unfortunately lead to unfairness, a level 30 beating a grandmaster. Here is a scenario.

You just became a Warlord. You enter a ranked match to find yourself against a level 30 Warlord. Big deal, you think to yourself. You've only used a few TC in PVP. After a few boring rounds, the level 30 casts Efreet. He has a TC feint, feint, TC elemental trap and blade, along with the regular version. He kills you in a single spell.

BUT, I say no because it is a strategy. Some lower levels have achieved high ranks because of these "Unfair" TC. And, it is almost impossible to achieve warlord without them.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
master of the sabe... on Dec 7, 2013 wrote:
first of all, you never get paired up with somebody that high or low in ranked pvp. second, i'm not even sure orthrus is trained at that lvl. weakness is not trained for the myth school. Since you are balance, you should know that since balance is actually the school that receives weakness. Hope I made my point.

Wolf RavenBreath 93
Yes, you can get paired with a level 50 when you are magus. It has happened to me many times. I have gotten paired with up to level 71 people at level 33. Orthrus is trained at level 48, and weakness can be trained with training points. His scenario is perfectly realistic, correct, and possible.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4113
David DeathFlame on Dec 8, 2013 wrote:
I get that everyone can get them, but for low levels, the ONLY way to win is to use high level tc. I don't like how there is only ONE strategy that works for low level pvp. That's why I think there should be a level cap on certain tc.
So what you are saying is that because you're higher level you should automatically win even if a lower level is able to outplay you with the same spells available to you?
That doesn't exactly sound like you're looking for "fair play". You have vastly more spells to choose from in addition to the same TC. You have better gear, way higher stats, more power pips, start with more pips, more health, bigger decks... How many more advantages do you really need to feel good about beating a lvl 30?

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
seethe42 on Dec 7, 2013 wrote:
Because banning them like that would just unbalance pvp even more than it already is. Until they match like levels and ranks, TC are a valid balance for all levels and ranks. TC are a part of the game and strategy, just because you choose not to use them doesn't make them unfair. ANYONE can farm or buy them. I personally don't understand why anyone thinks they should be banned from pvp. Everyone has 100% equal access to them, there's absolutely NOTHING unfair about their use.
let me illustrate a scenario
You are a lvl 20 myth (not my actual stats ) and you are against a lvl 12 fire. you cast a few blades, a few traps, and so does the fire. time passes. you are ready to attack. You think it's a good time for you to attack. then suddenly he uses an efreet tc. boom. you die. i'm not sure how so many of you agree with tcs being used in pvp. I agree with tcs, but only the user's lvl or lower.
Wolf RavenBreath93

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
Aaron SpellThief on Dec 9, 2013 wrote:
Yes, you can get paired with a level 50 when you are magus. It has happened to me many times. I have gotten paired with up to level 71 people at level 33. Orthrus is trained at level 48, and weakness can be trained with training points. His scenario is perfectly realistic, correct, and possible.
I agree with the orthrus part, but it IS impossible to get paired up with someone 20 lvls higher than you.
i'd like to know how you have this much experience if you are a magus, as you said in a recent post.
this scenario is almost all fake.
Wolf RavenBreath93

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
Aaron SpellThief on Dec 9, 2013 wrote:
Yes, you can get paired with a level 50 when you are magus. It has happened to me many times. I have gotten paired with up to level 71 people at level 33. Orthrus is trained at level 48, and weakness can be trained with training points. His scenario is perfectly realistic, correct, and possible.
I notice you never disagreed with my balance getting weakness comment. And seriously, lvl 71 to 33?! what is happening to this world!?
Wolf RavenBreath93

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4113
master of the sabe... on Dec 10, 2013 wrote:
let me illustrate a scenario
You are a lvl 20 myth (not my actual stats ) and you are against a lvl 12 fire. you cast a few blades, a few traps, and so does the fire. time passes. you are ready to attack. You think it's a good time for you to attack. then suddenly he uses an efreet tc. boom. you die. i'm not sure how so many of you agree with tcs being used in pvp. I agree with tcs, but only the user's lvl or lower.
Wolf RavenBreath93
If you let a lvl 12 wizard blade up AND get 8 pips (when they have almost no possibility of power pips), you deserve to lose, sorry. There is no point in allowing TC's at all if they are limited to level. The point of TC's is to get spells you can't normally cast. Every player, including YOU has this ability. It's all an ego thing for all you people trying to ban them. If you want "fair" then fine, if you are 20th level, you should lose all health and stat boosts that you got since lvl 12 and only be able to cast the spells you had at lvl 12. Out of curiousity, all those blades and traps (plural) that lvl 20 myth was casting... those wouldn't by chance be TC blades and traps that were above his level? You have one blade and two traps possible at that level, yet you seem to think it's OK for YOU to "cast a few blades"? A bit selective?

Explorer
Jun 24, 2011
81
seethe42 on Dec 10, 2013 wrote:
If you let a lvl 12 wizard blade up AND get 8 pips (when they have almost no possibility of power pips), you deserve to lose, sorry. There is no point in allowing TC's at all if they are limited to level. The point of TC's is to get spells you can't normally cast. Every player, including YOU has this ability. It's all an ego thing for all you people trying to ban them. If you want "fair" then fine, if you are 20th level, you should lose all health and stat boosts that you got since lvl 12 and only be able to cast the spells you had at lvl 12. Out of curiousity, all those blades and traps (plural) that lvl 20 myth was casting... those wouldn't by chance be TC blades and traps that were above his level? You have one blade and two traps possible at that level, yet you seem to think it's OK for YOU to "cast a few blades"? A bit selective?
Since when are you "the expert on myth"? And even if the myth was using blades, blades are almost NEVER above the user's lvl. I am not picky about the school casting tcs, but seriously, it is unfair. when I was lvl 20 and decided to go pvp, I was knocked out by some low lvl with an efreet tc (true story).
I don't see how you approve a magus using storm owl? an apprentice with rain of fire? a novice with forest lord? does that all seem fair to you? wow.
Wolf RavenBreath93