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Spys?

AuthorMessage
Defender
May 31, 2009
116
My, I'm chatty of late...

Recently while in a 3v3 match I was told by one of my teammates to NOT accept the match-up. When I questioned why, she told me because we didn't match up well against the selected team. !!!

Until then I assumed all the talk of people finding out about the match ups in advance was just the usual "your cheating" excuse so many throw out when they're losing, but turns out there's some truth to this.

So, apparently by having friends watch the match up, they can somehow really see the match up and warn people? Really? As I pondered this I got to thinking about why the game give you 90 seconds to accept a fight. After all, do people decline a fight because it doesn't "feel right"? Epiphany - could it be possible that the game WANTS people to use "spys" to see matchups? Say it ain't so, KI!!

In light of a recent rant of mine that went something like "if KI lets you do it, then it's NOT cheating", I'd be a hypocrite to say this is cheating. However, much as it pains me to say, this does come close if not cross that gray line.

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks that this practice should be stopped? I like the whole 15 seconds when you're eyeball to eyeball to make last second changes, but please, KI, close whatever loophole is out there that allows matchups to be communicated to those in the battle. I truly don't know how it works, but it's my opinion that picking and choosing your match up is not in the spirit of the game. Once matched, you shouldn't have the option to back out - simple as that.

mlb

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

They allow for a 90 second acceptance because your wizard is allowed to do other things while you're waiting for your match. I'm fine with the 90 seconds, but if people are using this to "spy" on match setups and avoid matches, perhaps they should just make the matching system "blind" until both parties accept.

Just don't make the match show up in the "Watch 1v1" until all members of both teams accept. BTW, this seems like a lot of work to go through to avoid matches. Who cares who you're matched up against, just duel. That's the point.

Explorer
Feb 16, 2009
98
Caspeen wrote:
My, I'm chatty of late...

Recently while in a 3v3 match I was told by one of my teammates to NOT accept the match-up. When I questioned why, she told me because we didn't match up well against the selected team. !!!

Until then I assumed all the talk of people finding out about the match ups in advance was just the usual "your cheating" excuse so many throw out when they're losing, but turns out there's some truth to this.

So, apparently by having friends watch the match up, they can somehow really see the match up and warn people? Really? As I pondered this I got to thinking about why the game give you 90 seconds to accept a fight. After all, do people decline a fight because it doesn't "feel right"? Epiphany - could it be possible that the game WANTS people to use "spys" to see matchups? Say it ain't so, KI!!

In light of a recent rant of mine that went something like "if KI lets you do it, then it's NOT cheating", I'd be a hypocrite to say this is cheating. However, much as it pains me to say, this does come close if not cross that gray line.

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks that this practice should be stopped? I like the whole 15 seconds when you're eyeball to eyeball to make last second changes, but please, KI, close whatever loophole is out there that allows matchups to be communicated to those in the battle. I truly don't know how it works, but it's my opinion that picking and choosing your match up is not in the spirit of the game. Once matched, you shouldn't have the option to back out - simple as that.

mlb



Erm well I am finding many flaws. First of, they aren't spies. If you are talking about ranked matches idk what you mean, for i dont do much ranked. In practice you can see who you are going against, if you made a game and are waiting for players your team mates could be watching your match up, and any one who joins on the opponent side they could read the levels and school. If your team mates say NOT to accept the match its most likely because they are watching your match. If you dont want to back out just simply do ranked matching, since you can not see who your opponents are.

Mastermind
Oct 17, 2008
339
Um, I'm confused... how can they see who your opponent is? So you tell your friend, but how can they find that person? They could be on a different realm, and there's so many, it would be next to impossible to find them. Also, how would this be "cheating?" So you see that the match-up isn't right and you decline the match. Well, I wouldn't want to be a level 4 fighting a level 36! I think it's fair if you do that. So, um, could you explain this a bit better?

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Julesgrusien,

Sorry to say, but we were waiting for a RANKED match, not practice. Yes, people CAN see matchups - that's the point I'm trying to make.

Carterma,

You asked who cares who you're matched up against, but if you can control who you play against this is HUGE. I have a pretty good record against Balance, and almost ALWAYS lose to Life. What if I back out of every match against a LIFE wizard and ONLY accept Balance match ups. More to the point, if I only play against Balance wizards (or Death, or Life, or Myth - whatever), I can stack my "perfect" deck so that I'm not guessing things like what shields to have and wear the best gear against that particular school.

If the 90 second thing serves an actual purpose, fine. I, personally, think it's unnecessary and you should get pulled into a match straight away. But I really feel they should close the loop that lets some see matchups and lets those folks pick and choose favorable matchups.

mlb

Geographer
Feb 27, 2009
889
Dude, who cares if there is spys? Like, ranked matches arent supposed to be fair, so it doesnt really matter. If they wanna back out, then its their choice to be chicken.

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

I guess what I meant was "you really shouldn't care which school you're dueling". I mean, sure I can stack my deck to have the best chance to beat one school and one school only, but really, what's the point of that? Sure, someone may earn rank of warlord, but that's kinda meaningless if they're not willing to facing any and all schools.

I absolutely agree with you about closing the loop though -- let's not let people game the system by choosing their opponent/school since I don't believe that is the intent of the matchup system.


Caspeen wrote:
Julesgrusien,

Carterma,

You asked who cares who you're matched up against, but if you can control who you play against this is HUGE. I have a pretty good record against Balance, and almost ALWAYS lose to Life. What if I back out of every match against a wizard and ONLY accept Balance match ups. More to the point, if I only play against Balance wizards (or Death, or Life, or Myth - whatever), I can stack my "perfect" deck so that I'm not guessing things like what shields to have.

If the 90 second thing serves an actual purpose, fine. I, personally, think it's unnecessary and you should get pulled into a match straight away. But I really feel they should close the loop that lets some see matchups and lets those folks pick and choose favorable matchups.

mlb

Mastermind
Oct 17, 2008
339
Caspeen wrote:
You asked who cares who you're matched up against, but if you can control who you play against this is HUGE. I have a pretty good record against Balance, and almost ALWAYS lose to Life. What if I back out of every match against a wizard and ONLY accept Balance match ups. More to the point, if I only play against Balance wizards (or Death, or Life, or Myth - whatever), I can stack my "perfect" deck so that I'm not guessing things like what shields to have.


It sounds as if you don't need spies for this, then. Can't you just see what school they are in by yourself? You don't need to have a friend do it. So you just accept Balance matches... that's fine. I mean, I don't see the big deal, and others don't really either... even though I DO kinda see where you're coming from...

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
IamLezul wrote:
Dude, who cares if there is spys? Like, ranked matches arent supposed to be fair, so it doesnt really matter. If they wanna back out, then its their choice to be chicken.


Are you serious, Lezul, ranked matches AREN'T supposed to be fair?

Let me guess - this is something you use, right?

I couldn't disagree with you more.

While everyone's definition of what "Fair" is may be differ, I daresay that no one one wants to participate in ANYTHING if they know in advance that something is going to be unfair against them - you included.

I get that wizards learn spells, acquire items, and practice strategies to give themselves as much as an advantage as they can to make a match SEEM unfair in their favor. That's part of the game. But making it so that some can pick and choose the battles they want gives those an "unfair" advantage. Obviously the folks at KI don't think so, yet, as this loophole has been around for a while (I'm guessing), but hopefully this is something that they can look into.

Perhaps I'm alone, but methinks there are a lot more folks here that want things to be as fair as possible than those who are indifferent to this.

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Windlilly wrote:
Um, I'm confused... how can they see who your opponent is? So you tell your friend, but how can they find that person? They could be on a different realm, and there's so many, it would be next to impossible to find them. Also, how would this be "cheating?" So you see that the match-up isn't right and you decline the match. Well, I wouldn't want to be a level 4 fighting a level 36! I think it's fair if you do that. So, um, could you explain this a bit better?


Sorry, Windlilly, I can't tell you exactly HOW - I just know that there is some way that they do. I'm certain someone on the site here can expound.

But I don't think it should be up to the individual wizard to determine what a even match is - that's what KI does. However, if people truly feel that they should be picking and choosing the match-ups, then why not make it accessible to everyone? Obviously there are many that aren't aware that this is happening, you included, so why does this loophole exist?

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Good grief, I talk a lot

*** UPDATE ***

So I haven't figured out who to use friends to see matchups that are ABOUT to happen, but I did figure out how one can see the match up that HAS happened.

When you are about to go into the Arena (the 90 second thing), go to whatever Arena you are going into (1v1, 2v2, etc) and watch what matches are going on. Once you accept and the other accepts, you will see your matchup, showing what school your opponent is

This doesn't help you avoid a match up you find undesirable because you've already accepted at this point, but you do find out what school they are. Somehow the same thing works with friends, but they can see the match up that has been proposed and they can tell you what that match up is so you can accept or not. Again, HOW they do that is beyond me because I haven't asked any of my friends to help with this, but I'm certain someone knows. Lots of someones, all Warlords I bet!

mlb

Geographer
Feb 27, 2009
889
Caspeen wrote:
IamLezul wrote:
Dude, who cares if there is spys? Like, ranked matches arent supposed to be fair, so it doesnt really matter. If they wanna back out, then its their choice to be chicken.


Are you serious, Lezul, ranked matches AREN'T supposed to be fair?

Let me guess - this is something you use, right?

I couldn't disagree with you more.

While everyone's definition of what "Fair" is may be differ, I daresay that no one one wants to participate in ANYTHING if they know in advance that something is going to be unfair against them - you included.

I get that wizards learn spells, acquire items, and practice strategies to give themselves as much as an advantage as they can to make a match SEEM unfair in their favor. That's part of the game. But making it so that some can pick and choose the battles they want gives those an "unfair" advantage. Obviously the folks at KI don't think so, yet, as this loophole has been around for a while (I'm guessing), but hopefully this is something that they can look into.

Perhaps I'm alone, but methinks there are a lot more folks here that want things to be as fair as possible than those who are indifferent to this.


Hah, look, your not getting me. Ranked matches arent supposed to be fair! Really, its as simple as that. If you want things all fair and even, go stick to practice matches where you can see your opponents. I've done tons of "unfair" matches. No one cares. Really,i've done tons of ranked against adults that can kick our butts. Ok, get over it. THats what i did, so stop crying.

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Lezul,

I get you, I really do - I just don't agree with you. KI might not always make a fair match-up, but the match-up system tries to make them as fair as possible. That's all I want. There will never be two identical players, so someone will always have a slight advantage and I'm fine with the system when it works like that. However, this post is about working the system in a way I don't believe KI intends. Without crying, just stating. I think something can be done to make the game fairer and, for most, more fun.

As an aside, it maybe that this "spying" only works in 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. In 1v1 you can watch the matchup as you join, but you can only see the opponent and not pick and chose as you can in multi-player battles. Again, I'm sure there are others out there that can clarify / explain.

I would also be very interested to hear a MOD's thoughts on this.

mlb

Defender
Nov 25, 2009
160
You don't need spys to find out someones lvl in practice match. If you put your arrow on the left side of the rim around the circle that says the persons name, it will tell you their lvl.

End of story.

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Merekid wrote:
End of story.


End of Story, perhaps, but I think you're reading the wrong book.

The SPYS of which I referred to was in RANKED pvp, not practice. I have since discovered how it's possible to see briefly your match up AFTER you accept, but how folks see their opponent BEFORE is still a mystery. I suspect it only works in Team matchups and NOT 1v1, in which case I suspect the same technique will work, but as I don't do team pvp I haven't made any headway there.

Regardless, I wish this match up preview loop could be closed because it gives one side a HUGE advantage if the other side isn't using it.

mlb

Defender
Nov 25, 2009
160
Caspeen wrote:
Merekid wrote:
End of story.


End of Story, perhaps, but I think you're reading the wrong book.

The SPYS of which I referred to was in RANKED pvp, not practice. I have since discovered how it's possible to see briefly your match up AFTER you accept, but how folks see their opponent BEFORE is still a mystery. I suspect it only works in Team matchups and NOT 1v1, in which case I suspect the same technique will work, but as I don't do team pvp I haven't made any headway there.

Regardless, I wish this match up preview loop could be closed because it gives one side a HUGE advantage if the other side isn't using it.

mlb


Hmm.... I see now that I WAS reading the wrong book. Mine is green and yours is blue.
Could it be that people are using cheat enengine?