Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

something needs to be done about judgment

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Mar 24, 2009
8
almost everytime i get in a pvp i most of the time get in a fight with a balance guy,Well i dont think its fair they always use judgment to win i think they should at least cut the power down on judgement because its not fair to the other players when they have to fight a balance guy can someone look at this and see what they can do.
please give your feedback..

charles deathvault level 49 myth

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
I'll give feedback.

What level are you?

Balance Wizards get Judgment at around level 32. At this level and in the surrounding environment, yes, Judgment is a bit overpowered. This changes however.

As a Balance wizard levels up, he receives no other spell of ANY significance. Spectral Blast maybe, Hydra a definite NO! Horrible spell. Power Nova? Gimme a break. So as you can see, the Balance Wizard is left with just Judgment and "maybe" Spectral Blast to use in the arena one on one.

How do you defend against a spell that has no shield? Glad you asked that question. There are MANY ways. Change your strategy and put the Balance Wizard on the defensive by pounding them with damage. Use Weakness and Tower Shield. Stack those with Treasure Weakness and Tower Shield. Believe me, there's PLENTY of ways to defeat a Judgment Strat. So many in fact that I, A Grandmaster Balance Sorcerer, have actually abandoned the Turtle/Judgment Strat.

In the 45+levels of PvP. EVERYONE buffs up for the big boom. People want to hit with a huge Helephant, Triton, etc....The defensive tips I've touched on are things you should be doing against EVERYONE. Not just Balance wizards.

If you haven't put five points into Ice for Tower Shield, then respec and do it. If you don't want to, then don't complain. Balance Wizards are actually at a DISADVANTAGE. If you don't believe me then level one and see for yourself.

Explorer
Sep 02, 2008
73
I played a fire wizard all the way to grandmaster and decided to start over with a balance wizard (mainly to get the house items and to try it out).

I completely agree with everything Dridsuzy has stated. The balance wizard is not that strong at all and if you want to beat one just use tower shields when dueling.

Hydra spell is not that great at all either.

Here is my suggestion to you. Why don't you try playing a balance wizard and I think you'll soon realize that they are not a strong character in the game? I had a real hard time trying to survive until I finally got the judgement spell. (Which was a difficult quest to get doing it solo.)

Oh yea, let's not forget to mention what a wonderfully weak minion that the balance wizard gets.

Survivor
May 03, 2009
3
Theres plenty of ways to not get killed by judgement. Judgement does allow for massive damage build up but its slower than the higher damaging schoole. For example using 2 pips a balence wizard could cast judgement and do 200 damage while a storm wizard could use storm bats and do better. Try constant attacks to force them to use pips on other cards such as heals. Tower shields work well as some others have suggested. Also try using spirit armor. For its 3 pips judgment could do 300 damage but with the armor you can protect against 400.

Survivor
Dec 06, 2008
41
i play fire too my dad is balance so he helps me alot with fighting he sometimes uses hydra but he blades and traps

Explorer
Feb 21, 2009
66
charlescave wrote:
almost everytime i get in a pvp i most of the time get in a fight with a balance guy,Well i dont think its fair they always use judgment to win i think they should at least cut the power down on judgement because its not fair to the other players when they have to fight a balance guy can someone look at this and see what they can do.
please give your feedback..

charles deathvault level 49 myth

Might as well take away the entire Balance school, too Balance has NOTHING going for them except Judgment. Even it can easily be stopped by a Tower Shield, and you can purchase those as treasure cards at the library.

Bottom Line: If anything is done about the Balance school, it shouldn't be that Judgment is nerfed, it should be that Balance gains a shield breaking/stealing spell.

Duncan E.

Survivor
Feb 21, 2009
3
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.

The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.



Survivor
Mar 15, 2009
40
If something needs to be done about Judgement, it needs too be done to Storm too. Well Judgement one hits you and Storm spells do too so yeah why not also make Storm spells weak too? Wait, wh- whats that? because it'd be unbalanced!? Well that's what would happen if balance got rid of Judgement too. I mean really why don't we also take away everyone X pip spells while were at it, make everyone weaker, I mean really why not? Wait? Is it because you like your X pip spells too? Yeah, well guess what Balance likes their X pip spell too. Other than that balance also has almost no good spells but Judgement. If you don't want to die from any other spell than what do you do? change your deck? Guess what, thats what you have to do with Judgement too, and if you say, "Wel lthen that leaves me open to other attacks! Well putting that simply means that you don't want to die at all, well then change your deck to protect agaisnt Judgement slightly, to make it do less damage and then use what you used in your old deck to save you from other spells. To just end this, putting it simply is if you like your good spells, don't complain about other schools good spells. Good day to you sir!


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* I never lose, I just temporarily don't win.~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
15
tbuczek wrote:
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.

The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.




Judgment is fine. I lucky if i could get 1000 damage now. Judgment is great for damage but i take all your pips which may not be good when dueling.

Balance is not on top because of Judgment it because of our skills and able to handle different schools. Balance players fight hard in duels but balance have a lot in the top 100 due to it people versity of the school.

Survivor
May 03, 2009
3
tbuczek wrote:
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.

The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.




In higher level pvp it won't be balence trying to one shot you. I'm life so any good pvper should know that his best hope is to one hit me so I don't heal any of the damage. Heals tend to do more per pip than damage spells unbuffed so if someone trys to just spam attacks my spamed heals will keep me at full or colse to full health. If you don't like being one shoted there are alot of classes other than balence that can do it quicker such as storm.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.


The Top 100 List is completely bogus at this point. I'd wager half those people are chain stunners exploiting the game in Ranked team matches to pad their individual Rank.

Till there's different Ranks for individual and team PvP, any kind of "Top 100" list is totally pointless.

Judgment is fine. If you don't think so, level up a Balance Wizard and tell me how great Hydra and Spectral Blast are.

As far as throwing off lower level spells to burn off Tower Shields then re-feint....congratulations, you've just discovered the most base form of strategy for every school of magic in a duel.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
The issue is not judgment itself but the fact that there are no shields that specifically guard against balance.

Explorer
Feb 11, 2009
86
the question would be what are you doing while the balance wizard is hourding pips and using zero pip spells? The balance student takes time to get it to do that much damage. as has been pointed out, look at the per pip damage vs most other schools and judgment is overrated. While he's hording, just kill him.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
The issue is not judgment itself but the fact that there are no shields that specifically guard against balance.

So what other Balance spell needs to be guarded against? Hydra? Nope, you can pretty much demolish that spell with just one of three shields that are prolific in the PvP arena. Spectral Blast? See Hydra above.

If there ever IS a Balance shield, then Spectral blast needs to be changed to a 500 pt random school DoT and Hydra needs an extra 100 pts per head.

Judgment has the EXTREME disadvantage that it's an all or nothing spell. All your pips are gone after you use it.

Isn't the Storm spell Tempest basically the same thing? Only it's 80 pts dam per pip. Oh ya, there's a Storm shield. Well, heck, I can just wand that away like it's a Tower Shield and waste you with Tempest right? So how come I don't see this happening? Oh ya, that's right, cause Storm has Shark, Kraken, Thunderzilla, Triton...etc.....all better and cheaper spells.

Balance has one viable spell in the arena...Judgment. It has no Balance shield, but EVERY OTHER defensive tactic in the game works against it. Learn to defend against Judgment and you will improve your overall PvP game by a mile.

Survivor
Mar 02, 2009
14
OH a shield that guards agaisnt judge.

well the second that happens i want balance to have more than balance blade, some extra shields, extra debuffs, extra powerups.

YOu wanna know why balance is so hard, IT IS A MIX OF ALL THE SCHOOLS. a little bit of life, a little bit of death, a little bit of ice, fire, myth, etch youg et the point....
I'm so sick of hearing people complian about pvp. Makes me wonder how rich your lives really are, let me ask you something

How many of you are having fun on thsi game, it seems that everyone wants things their own way when it should all just be left alone.

Yes chain stunning is annoying it is a stragety like chain healing, chain dragon, chain frostbite, etc etc

and don't say i don't speak from a wizard wthat knows how to play a wizard that has stuns.

I'm working on my third and fourth grandmasters now. Ice and Fire.

It is not their fault that KI didn't give stuns to every school. but if they did. we'd all be the same.

and Back to judgement on my balance grand i find that if the person is hitting me with attack after attack I HAVE TO HEAL and i am UNABLE, thats right UNABLE to use my judge.

Now instead of crying over every little thing that happens in this game that you do not like, go out, make a stragety, try to beat theirs.

you'd be surprised on how much smoother the game would go.

or, if you are unable, if you still cry about it, STOP PVP. if you can't handle competition. the possiblity of losing. do not pvp.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
I'm not going to go into chain stunning because there's already threads on that, but judgment is not your only high hitting spell. Spectral blast, if used well, can be just as powerful and it has the advantage of being unpredictable. I've seen it do do at least 2000 in several duels. Second, you guys already get more buffs than any other school because you're a SUPPORT SCHOOL, and balance shield won't hurt you that much, because you're a mix of all the schools.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Spectral blast, if used well, can be just as powerful and it has the advantage of being unpredictable.

If by "used well" you mean extremely lucky Spectral Blast actually didn't smash against an elemental shield, bounce off a Tower Shield, get smothered by a Weakness, hit a wizard with no resistance, set off a Feint/Blade/Hex and actually use the Storm portion of the spell, then yeah...Spectral Blast can hit for almost 2000.

Just to start, Spectral Blast has only a 1 in 3 chance to even come close to that number. If it goes Ice or Fire then forget it. That's really some advantage there ;P

We get three unique buffs...Balance Blade, Bladestorm and Hex. This is NOT more than any other school.

If we're not going to talk about Chainstunning then we won't be talking about the Top 100 List either.

Funny you didn't mention our 6 pip spell Hydra but instead refer to our 4 pip spell as the "Other" powerful one.

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
33
tbuczek wrote:
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.

The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.



Well, being a life wizard (and a very observant one, sorry for misspelling)
I gotta say that every school has a kill a person in one hit spell if used properly. Okay, so let's say you're fighting a life wizard (me). Now, we all know that life isnt the strongest school around, HOWEVER I happen to have a 27% boost from clothes (I got really good drops) and a couple more things like: a life blade, life trap,spirit blade, and a tough treasure card. Now, if I play it right, this could take out a lot of people in one shot. being the underdog, I have the advantage that people don't expect me to have big hits. Just my two cents, and realize that this is LIFE we're talking about. EVERY SCHOOL HAS A TAKE YOU OUT IN ONE HIT SPELL. The important thing is that you customize your deck to corespond with a situation.
Fred Angleblade level 47 life.
The force will be with you. Always.

Survivor
Apr 24, 2009
38
Dridsuzy wrote:
I'll give feedback.


...If you haven't put five points into Ice for Tower Shield, then respec and do it. If you don't want to, then don't complain. Balance Wizards are actually at a DISADVANTAGE. If you don't believe me then level one and see for yourself.


Yea, I don't believe it.

I have a shield for every school of magic except balance. That's a crime. I should be able to shield against balance like I shield against everything else. It is just wrong. I can not shield against a balance spell but balance gets to put up shields three at once. They get more space in their decks because of this. They don't have to spend talent points to learn these shields so they get to have more spells.

No, I don't believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny nor the disadvantage that burdens balance wizards.

Survivor
Apr 24, 2009
38
cbfan14 wrote:
The issue is not judgment itself but the fact that there are no shields that specifically guard against balance.


Reading this thread I had begun to despair. You give me hope. Thank you.

Survivor
Oct 26, 2008
33
Judgement is a good spell, but in PvP specifically it has issues. When you are dueling against a balance wizard you want to have tower shields. To the above poster who said they can be wiped away and then cast feint again and then judgement...well, when they recast feint, you recast a tower shield, and they are stuck again.

Balance is also most susceptible to weakness as the balance school blades and traps (and feint) all work on whatever spell hits it, so any weakness or tower shield means that the balance wizard now needs to blow all their blades and traps to get rid of the tower, and then they are looking at a base judgement which will not one shot anyone. The other disadvantage of judgement is that it uses all your pips, so a last minute tower shield will leave the balance wizard with no pips, and an opponent who is moderately damaged.

As for their shields; Yes they cover three schools per shield spell, but they are weaker than other schools shields. Balance shields protect 50% against three schools, other schools dual shields protect 70% against two schools, and the single schools are 80% against one schools. That seems pretty reasonable and balanced.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
Indeed, I don't wanna talk about the top 100 list either becuase its phony until something is done about the chainstuns.


We get three unique buffs...Balance Blade, Bladestorm and Hex. This is NOT more than any other school.

Elemental blade, elemental trap, spiritual blade, and spiritual trap are very, very sad they weren't mentioned. :(

Also, spectral is strong BECAUSE ITS RANDOM. I said AT LEAST 2000, not almost, as my grandmaster has been hit HARD by it. If you get storm portion, you're looking at nearly 5000, and fire and ice portions won't be far behind. Wizards can't predict it easily either, and will be expecting judgment if you're balance anyways, so I fail to see how spectral blast can't be a good attack spell. Aside from tower shield, the only effective counters to it are used by balance wizards (convenient, huh? :))

Another solution is to make feint applicable to only death spells, as it seems to be the number one culprit of otks in the arena. I doubt people will complain so much about judgment or any high damage spell wiping the floor with them despite defenses then, and death has the lowest base damage of all the schools, so it would balance out nicely.

Funny you didn't mention our 6 pip spell Hydra but instead refer to our 4 pip spell as the "Other" powerful one.

Hydra is more of a shield breaker; the required overinvestment in traps kinda kills it as a sole damage spell.

Lastly, DONT SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT THE MANDERS! They are really very useful minions, far more useful than what a lot of the other schools get, even myth. :(

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer




Survivor
Apr 18, 2009
7
cbfan14 wrote:
Hydra is more of a shield breaker; the required overinvestment in traps kinda kills it as a sole damage spell.


I would think if it more as an attrition tool. It still takes blades for all 3 hits and you can get clothes bonuses for the entire attack with arena gear... then, you're talking about an attack that does most of it's damage through a shield. That goes well with a defensive plan with a bunch of shields. Hydra is not a straightfoward spell at all, but it's CERTAINLY not weak.

Balance is only at a disadvantage if you're not prepaired to outplay your opponents. Having played against some REALLY good balance players, I can say that they are VERY hard to beat.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Elemental blade, elemental trap, spiritual blade, and spiritual trap are very, very sad they weren't mentioned.

I said our three UNIQUE Buffs. The ones you mentioned are available to everyone and also don't effect Judgment. Yes, Balance gets them for free while it costs others a talent point a piece. This, however does NOT deter from almost everyone having them.

As I said, with the perfect set of events, Spectral Blast can be a very powerful spell. BUT...here's what usually happens. Your opponent uses a Fire/Storm shield and a Tower Shield. Or they use an Ice/Fire Shield and a Tower Shield, or your opponent uses a Fire/Storm Shield and a Tower Shield...are we seeing a pattern yet?

OK, so say I'm not using a Balance Wand and actually have an Elemental Wand to knock out...let's say the Storm shield. There's only a one in three chance that my Spectral Blast will be storm and actually make it through shields and do damage. This Randomness makes Spectral Blast ineffective and relegates it to Minion blasting. Let's just hope it's not Ice against an Ice minion, Storm against a storm minion..etc... Believe me, I've tried running with the Elemental strat and sometimes it works wonders, but mostly it's unpredictable nature can't stand up to a focused deck of a "pure" school.

Before people start yelling about the fact that THEY have to deal with getting through shields, let me reiterate a point that was probably missed. If you're a Storm Wizard, you carry a Storm Wand to get through Storm Shields and hit them with your Storm Damage. I'm a Balance Wizard who has to get through ALL THREE elemental shields to effectively use Spectral Blast or Hydra.

This leaves Judgment and still leaves Tower Shield. Folks aren't complaining about Scorpion or Locust Swarm. They do Balance Damage and have no shield other than a Tower Shield. That would be because they don't do much damage. Balance Wizards get ONE spell that they can consistently count on to do at least competitive damage in the Arena. That spell is Judgment.

As for the Mander..hey, personally I luv the guy. I don't remember bashing him. He drops pretty easy, but man is he "Helpful"! :-)


Explorer
Feb 21, 2009
66
It doesn't matter how good you are or how bad the other player is, Balance loses to players with 10+ Tower Shield treasure cards in their deck (most of the time unless there is a fairly large level differential or a HUGE skill differential).

I recently played against a Life lvl 50 in the arena. If there weren't such things as treasure cards, she would've lost very quickly.

The final result of the battle was her winning due to my connection crashing, her having hordes of Tower Shield treasure cards, and me discarding my Reshuffle (I was kicking myself for that one ).

If you can draw a Tower Shield EVERY round, there's no way a Balance wizard can stop you.

You might say that we (meaning Balance wizards) can just break the shield, re-Feint, and then Judge, but that isn't possible when you break, re-Feint, opponent uses Tower Shield, and then you waste 14 pips (7 power) on a Judgment.

If anything happens, it DEFINITELY shouldn't be that Judgment loses power. Do that and we're stuck with Spec. Blast and Hydra .

One poster said that they saw a Spec. Blast hit for 2,000. Obviously the opposing wizard had no idea how to shield, and had little or no defenses.

Hydra, just plain stinks. Yes, it's an effective shield breaker, but at 6 pips it is not worth the effort. Sometimes in pvp I am forced to use Hydra because my opponent hordes Tower Shields, rendering my Judgment useless.

Please don't mess with Judgment, KI!

Duncan E.
Grandmaster Sorcerer