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So... why ISN'T there a banned list for PvP?

AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 11, 2009
24
I do not wish to make this a thread about any particular strategies; this is a thread which goes towards acknowledging a weird oversight in the PvP arena.

Virtually every CCG in existence is guilty of a couple of 'oopses'. Even some of the oldest CCGs still make a mistake in printing a card which shifts the successful strategies in the game so much that a format can become wrapped around people either (1) playing the Best Spell or (2) playing *around* the Best Spell. In extreme cases, the higher-ups at various judging institutions will examine the case of a certain spell and determine whether or not that card is degenerate for tournament play. If it is, that card is no longer legal for tournament play.

Wizard101 has two basic modes of play, yes? PvE and PvP. In PvE we fight against opponents who may have many times a normal Wizards' health and quite often we fight them 2-against-1. In such an environment it is only logical to have access to certain powerful spells and abilities which give you a chance against such lousy odds.

In PvP however, many things change. Players have access to a much wider range of spells than most opponents. Players have the capacity to override certain safety measures which are built into the game to promote fairness. Players can find exceptional card interactions between themselves which allows groups of wizards to execute a singular strategy which is often times difficult to entirely defend against or in certain cases, next to impossible. Others are able to combine their "in-school" resources with "off-school" spells to allow wizards to dodge much of the inherent trade-offs associated with their school of choice. This has the singular effect of making a given character's HP their most valuable asset above all others.

Every major CCG has a list of cards which cannot be brought to a tournament. You can play these cards at home, at your kitchen table or at your local coffeehouse as you wish - but upon entering a sanctioned event, these cards are recognized as being degenerate because of what are unintended combos with those spells and others.

It's a simple and elegant solution to virtually any problem you see arise with PvP. And as with all games, in cases where new cards are printed, new booster packs released or the level cap raised, the metagame (which is to say, the deck that most PvPers would bring to a tournament that were being held today) will change. Today's banned list would look different than last year's, would look different than next year's, assuming new spells are being introduced that change the way we approach the game.

In KI's efforts to balance the schools they've printed new spells which have partially affected the metagame; Stun Shield can make a difference in 1v1 and the new Dispels are a neat one-shot trick if you're good at predicting, but certain formats are still monstrous in their capacity for degenerate plays. I am curious as to why KI has decided not to take the same measures as virtually every other active CCG has in establishing a tournament-only restricted list, in which certain strategies are acknowledged as being a little too powerful for fair tourney play and the key culprit cards are therefore banned from entering the Arena.

Defender
May 31, 2009
116
Awesome post, Bombfish.

As someone who has never played any other CCG, I have no reference to how other games are played.

While I do think some tweaks can be made to enhance the pvp experience, the one "strategy" to me that I think needs a complete re-think is Chain-Stunning. Stunning has a place in pvp, but the practice stunning round after round, rendering one team helpless to compete, imho undermines the intent of stunning. It's why I never do any more than 2v2.

That said, I'd love to hear your how you think this could be addressed. Banning stun cards seems a bit harsh - how do you separate the single stun from the chain stun?

Also, any other suggestions you might have?

mlb

Defender
Dec 14, 2009
113
Bombfish wrote:
I am curious as to why KI has decided not to take the same measures as virtually every other active CCG has in establishing a tournament-only restricted list, in which certain strategies are acknowledged as being a little too powerful for fair tourney play and the key culprit cards are therefore banned from entering the Arena.


Hello Bombfish,

Very elequently stated!

I do not have a lot of experience in this subject matter, but your points make perfect sense. I realize that PVP is a very small part of the game from KI's perspective, due to the massive difference between the number of people who play PVP, as opposed to the rest of the players.

That said, I think if there have been years of experince with other CCG platforms, KI could take a lesson from those and implement similar constraints on sanctioned PVP matches.

This just seems too logical not to be considered.

Don't re-invent the wheele. Take a lesson from others that have spent a tremendous amount of effort establishing methodologies and standards.

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Steven SkullHammer - Level 50 (Grandmaster Thaumaturge)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 25 (Adept Theurgist)
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Steven SkullHammer - Level 15 (Initiate Necromancer)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 13 (Initiate Diviner)
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