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Shadow Pips in PvP

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 21, 2017
5
So, for the last like week or so I've been paying attention to shadow pips in PvP a little more closely.

I'll watch a friend do PvP and the amount of times I've seen him go against a person who gets a shadow pip first round then another shadow pip the very second round is just unreal. Then they can shrike into a shadow hit of sorts and pretty much just spam you down before the match has really even started.
I also just did a PvP match and in the time it took me to a singular shadow pip, my opponent received 4 shadow pips.
That's a 4:1 ratio. That's just insane. My opponent happened to storm, so that didn't make it anymore easier.

I really just wanted to rant, I think SOMETHING should be done about that issue but I don't really know what will help fix it. It just makes doing PvP less fun when people start receiving shadow pips like it's free candy and they already have had 3 shadow pips by the time I've only received one.

Survivor
Sep 16, 2015
9
LexiDream on Jan 8, 2019 wrote:
So, for the last like week or so I've been paying attention to shadow pips in PvP a little more closely.

I'll watch a friend do PvP and the amount of times I've seen him go against a person who gets a shadow pip first round then another shadow pip the very second round is just unreal. Then they can shrike into a shadow hit of sorts and pretty much just spam you down before the match has really even started.
I also just did a PvP match and in the time it took me to a singular shadow pip, my opponent received 4 shadow pips.
That's a 4:1 ratio. That's just insane. My opponent happened to storm, so that didn't make it anymore easier.

I really just wanted to rant, I think SOMETHING should be done about that issue but I don't really know what will help fix it. It just makes doing PvP less fun when people start receiving shadow pips like it's free candy and they already have had 3 shadow pips by the time I've only received one.
LexiDream,

I agree 100%, it's the biggest problem in High level PVP right now, and it needs to be addressed.

Defender
Oct 10, 2010
103
This is one item in the game that has never made any sense. PVP is all about the PiP war, how well
you use your pips and how much you can make someone else waste their pips.
How can Pips come in one a round, but shadow pips be random? A shadow pip basically doubles your
pips, and to have that random is incredible. It shifts power in dramatic ways during a PVP fight.

Give one person three shadow pips and the other person zero pips, and it's a forced lost.
There is almost no way that a person that gets unlucky with Shadow pips can win.
I remember when Wild Bolt gained accuracy, there was almost no way to beat a Storm Wizard.
KI corrected that in short order, as it was extremely unfair. So is having Shadow pips in a random
state, it's again extremely unfair.

I agree with the above two post, this really needs to be fixed, before anything else in the game.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
Survivor
Sep 16, 2015
9
ChicoValerian on Jan 11, 2019 wrote:
you guys need to equip some Shiny Pip Hematite.
Chico,

If that would make any real difference, I would, but it has almost not effect at all.
This is a major problem, and it really does need to be addressed by KI.
To make PVP so lopsided that it's impossible to win, doesn't make any sense in any game.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
I will run some tests of my own and report back when I have a decent amount of data. My perception is different from yours, I think the hematite pip jewels *do* make a real difference.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
ChicoValerian on Jan 13, 2019 wrote:
I will run some tests of my own and report back when I have a decent amount of data. My perception is different from yours, I think the hematite pip jewels *do* make a real difference.
I saw that while you replied to the 2 other people in a couple of posts that didn't agree with your opinion on shadow I noticed you didn't reply to mine on a post where shadow was brought up as a concern.

So I'll ask you here. You said in another post with your gear you get your shadow percent to about 15%. Like every other wiz percentage I assume that means your getting 15 out of 100. This means even though that's better than what most people get in pvp gear, which as far as I can tell judging by my own gear averages around 7 or 6%, it shouldn't make a huge difference in how often you get shadow pips. Yes when thinking small numbers you have double your chances. But it's out of 100 which means your chances are tiny in the grand scheme of things.

My question here after considering this, is what tests are you running? Taking the scientific method into consideration you have to have a hypothesis, do the test test, then analyze your data. You are supposed to conduct the test at least 3 times to compare results accurately.

The hypothesis is there. The test really only has one option if you want to have true results. You have to determine a number of pvp battles to do with your gear, count what turns you got shadow pips on (so you know how fast you are getting them as well as how many you get in a whole battle), and make sure all your battles last the same # of turns. Then repeat 2 more times.

If all your battles aren't the same number of turns then you have battles that vary in ways that change results for each battle which won't make for a good comparison. So even if you have to flee you have to end them after the same # of turns. And to truly compare it the same test should be run with gear that gives the 7 or 6 % the same amount of times (at least 3). Once you have how many times you got shadow pips and how fast you got them for both sets you'll see if it makes a difference. I'd do it myself honestly If I had the jewels for it it seems like an interesting test.

.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
What I thought I would do is compare how many shadow pips I get with gear that gives as low as possible shadow pip increase with how many shadow pips I get with gear that gives me maximum shadow pip increase, and track how many rounds I am in and how many shadow pips I get, using my shadow pips as fast as possible so that I make sure there is room to get another in each round. If I do a couple hundred rounds each way, I think that would give me the information we want.

Anecdotally, I frequently run a dark nova strat and I can tell you that when my shadow pip chance is at it's highest I get a shadow in the two rounds after I put nova up much more frequently than I do otherwise. But we don't want anecdotes do we?

I would prefer not to do this in ranked pvp, so I thought I would do it in practice pvp and against mobs in game and see if the numbers are consistent.

Do you think that would be a good way to test it?

Survivor
Sep 16, 2015
9
Luvdogs99 on Jan 14, 2019 wrote:
I saw that while you replied to the 2 other people in a couple of posts that didn't agree with your opinion on shadow I noticed you didn't reply to mine on a post where shadow was brought up as a concern.

So I'll ask you here. You said in another post with your gear you get your shadow percent to about 15%. Like every other wiz percentage I assume that means your getting 15 out of 100. This means even though that's better than what most people get in pvp gear, which as far as I can tell judging by my own gear averages around 7 or 6%, it shouldn't make a huge difference in how often you get shadow pips. Yes when thinking small numbers you have double your chances. But it's out of 100 which means your chances are tiny in the grand scheme of things.

My question here after considering this, is what tests are you running? Taking the scientific method into consideration you have to have a hypothesis, do the test test, then analyze your data. You are supposed to conduct the test at least 3 times to compare results accurately.

The hypothesis is there. The test really only has one option if you want to have true results. You have to determine a number of pvp battles to do with your gear, count what turns you got shadow pips on (so you know how fast you are getting them as well as how many you get in a whole battle), and make sure all your battles last the same # of turns. Then repeat 2 more times.

If all your battles aren't the same number of turns then you have battles that vary in ways that change results for each battle which won't make for a good comparison. So even if you have to flee you have to end them after the same # of turns. And to truly compare it the same test should be run with gear that gives the 7 or 6 % the same amount of times (at least 3). Once you have how many times you got shadow pips and how fast you got them for both sets you'll see if it makes a difference. I'd do it myself honestly If I had the jewels for it it seems like an interesting test.

.
Luvdogs99,

I didn't do that test, but I may when I get bored, just to see the results.

What I need was setup two different 120 level wizards, one with the base level, and one with
as many Jewels, gear, pet, etc I could add to increase the Shadow pip chance.
I don't remember the exact numbers now, but it was at least a 6% increase for only one Wizard.

I kept them both (at my Castle's PVP section) in a PvP match for 100 rounds, and then repeated it again.
Noting how the chance works in W101, each chance starts as a new percentage.

Both times, the Lower Shadow Wizard got more Shadow pips than the 6% Higher Shadow Wizard.
That's when I stopped, and decided that the RNG wasn't really acting like it was suppose too.
Maybe if I ran a lot more test it would have been different, but either way, they way it works
is just a bit too random.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
ChicoValerian on Jan 14, 2019 wrote:
What I thought I would do is compare how many shadow pips I get with gear that gives as low as possible shadow pip increase with how many shadow pips I get with gear that gives me maximum shadow pip increase, and track how many rounds I am in and how many shadow pips I get, using my shadow pips as fast as possible so that I make sure there is room to get another in each round. If I do a couple hundred rounds each way, I think that would give me the information we want.

Anecdotally, I frequently run a dark nova strat and I can tell you that when my shadow pip chance is at it's highest I get a shadow in the two rounds after I put nova up much more frequently than I do otherwise. But we don't want anecdotes do we?

I would prefer not to do this in ranked pvp, so I thought I would do it in practice pvp and against mobs in game and see if the numbers are consistent.

Do you think that would be a good way to test it?
Sounds like a good way to test it to me as long as the number of rounds is the same for both sets of gear. As much as I hated science when in school I'll admit it got that part right.

I totally understand not doing that in ranked lol I wouldn't either. I would even suggest if you have a friend or another account that you go to a home with a pvp circle and try the tests there that way you have complete control over when your battle ends without a risk of dying early.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
3DGhost on Jan 14, 2019 wrote:
Luvdogs99,

I didn't do that test, but I may when I get bored, just to see the results.

What I need was setup two different 120 level wizards, one with the base level, and one with
as many Jewels, gear, pet, etc I could add to increase the Shadow pip chance.
I don't remember the exact numbers now, but it was at least a 6% increase for only one Wizard.

I kept them both (at my Castle's PVP section) in a PvP match for 100 rounds, and then repeated it again.
Noting how the chance works in W101, each chance starts as a new percentage.

Both times, the Lower Shadow Wizard got more Shadow pips than the 6% Higher Shadow Wizard.
That's when I stopped, and decided that the RNG wasn't really acting like it was suppose too.
Maybe if I ran a lot more test it would have been different, but either way, they way it works
is just a bit too random.
Honestly can't say that your results surprise me. There's a reason people complain about shadow pips after all. I'd still be interested to see what Chicovalerian has happen when he tests it. Honestly I might just go jewel farming after I finish leveling up my latest wizard I really want to try this myself now.

Survivor
Dec 21, 2017
5
ChicoValerian on Jan 13, 2019 wrote:
I will run some tests of my own and report back when I have a decent amount of data. My perception is different from yours, I think the hematite pip jewels *do* make a real difference.
Y’all making want to run tests of my own.
But what I’ve seen among max level PvP, sometimes it doesn’t even matter who goes first in a match if someone recieves a ridiculous amount of shadow pips over the duration of the match.

It wouldn’t be so bad, if a 4 pip shadow hit didn’t do 2k on one hit. Then you’re already down over a quarter of your health and that ultimately ruins the advantage of going first or only makes going second harder depending on which you get.

Maybe, I’ll eventually run a test of my own, but currently I’m busy working on other things in the game that I haven’t even done PvP in awhile. But I hope to get back to it

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
you don't even need to do anything special, just track your shadow pips and rounds. KI said that shadow pip chance in the first round is not the same as other rounds, and the mechanics are the same in game and pvp. So if you want to know, just track when you get them.