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Remove Sanctuary, Shatter, and GS from PVP

AuthorMessage
Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
KI, implement a ranked PVP timer. NOW.

Guardian Spirit and Shatter need to be removed from PVP. Period. If you want to remove all shields at once, use Earthquake or Aftershock. GS is self-explanatory, it should never have existed. Sanctuary's pip cost should be increased to about 7 to allow for players that DON'T carry only heals and shields and reshuffles to win the bubble war (if not removing it entirely).

Increase the effectiveness of trained Doom and Gloom to 85%. TC to 95%. The whole point of a bubble to stop healing is to STOP HEALING. 65% is not nearly effective enough when you can easily reach 65% incoming healing along with critical. Make it 1 Pip, not 2.

It's past time KI addressed Angel strategies in the Arena. I am tired of autolosing matches simply because I am not playing a Death or Ice wizard with max Dooms and Infections and blades in my deck to attempt to counter a strategy that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.

You cannot myth dispel Shatter if they pack Ether Shield, it will buy you some time if you time it correctly yes, but they will remove the dispel with a shield or wand hit and cast it again later anyway. There is no way to remove all school-specific traps at once with the exception of Dimension Shift () which is only available to myth wizards. Cleanse Ward only removes one trap at a time.

You will not be able to pack more Bubbles than theirs without compromising your deck. Furthermore packing only Cleanse Ward TC in your side deck is impractical and you will eventually run out anyway, as it is not trainable.

Triple Feint, Blade, Shatter, then hit, did you say? Empower, Weakness, Towers, Maycast Enfeeble, Maycast Fortify, Glowbug Squall TC. Even if it works and you somehow manage to kill her she revives again anyway with 4K hp unless you somehow win the bubble war.

Meanwhile, an Angel will Feint, Potent Feint, Hex, Curse, Life Trap, Potent Life Trap, TC Life Trap, Spirit Trap, Potent Spirit Trap, TC Spirit Trap, Life Fuel* (rare), Life Blade, Sharpened Life Blade, Elemental Blade, Sharpened Elemental Blade, TC Elemental Blade, Shatter => Shrike => Hungry Caterpillar. Obviously throw lots of shields, heals, and towers in between, but the result is the same.

Using Empower and Earthquake buys you time, but you will still never be able to kill them even if their blade and trap stacking doesn't oneshot you.

When I say this strategy has no counterplay when played properly, there is actually no counterplay. One of the many players abusing it that I have faced currently has ~2165 rank. AT MAX LEVEL.
The only counterplay is to blade into OHKO and then OHKO again, which is why out of the 'only 21' losses this player had, 11 were to Ice Wizards. Her words not mine. Her pet was an Ultra Clockwork Paladin (which spams the balance tri-shields), with Maycast Enfeeble, Fortify, and Fairy, plus proof defy, plus an Ice Ward jewel.

Full Stats come later.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
I wish KI would comment or deal with this issue.

My balance has a couple pieces of gear with Dimension Shift gems on them, but if I don't have a Myth amulet equipped, it's really not a practical approach. You get the gems from the Indigo Giant.

I use dark nova on these folks with some luck, especially when I can get a shrike up before it hits. They rarely carry shadow shields, and if you use shift greenoak to get a like, it can't be dispelled and it breaks a shield, sets a weakness and gives a blade. That plus a feint is good to set them back considerably. If you place a shadow trap and a shadow blade before you swing up the Nova, it's a pretty devastating attack, I've done over 13k in pvp to people in warlord gear that way. Best to infection them before you hit as well.

People forget, but the bubble Gaze sets is a like for Dark Nova, if you can use a gaze on the third nova turn your opponent will take three hits in one round. And have a stun handy for when she revives.

The thing that's easy to lose sight of is that they are playing for pips while you are playing for damage. Their struggle is keeping their pips from disappearing. So Mana Burn and Trickster are your friend as well.

with all the ward pets these days, there's no way I want my attacks confined to balance hits only.

I'm hoping to face that warlord you mentioned, it would be nice to see her lose to a balance.

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
From a Level 100 wizard which means that it's possible to actually get even more broken than this.

5998 HP
47% Damage
66% Incoming + 45% Outgoing . Note that both Incoming and Outgoing healing stack when you heal yourself.
61% Resist (76% to ).
10% Accuracy
621 Critical
7% Armor Piercing
91% Power Pip Chance
6% Shadow Chance

Satyr heals for 860 (Radical-Enchanted Satyr 1010). Critical 2020.
2020 * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4862.14
4862.14 x Sanctuary Global (1.5) = 7293.21.

Regular Satyr:
860 => 1720, * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4140.04. Add Sanctuary (1.5x) which gives 6210.06.

For 4 pips!

Critical Guardian angel:
6000 * 0.3 = 1800, * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4332.6 revival with no bubble (6498.9 under Sanctuary, 1516.41 under Doom). Basically Doom has to be up at all times.

Here is the item build:

Deck: Tatyana's Deck of Salvation
Max Spells 64, Max Copies 7, Max copies 10. 10! Good luck keeping Doom up.
Sideboard 40. Triangle Socket
+1 Pip

Wand: Tormentor's Skullsplitter
+7% incoming .
+181 Critical
Gives 3 wand hits of ,

Athame: Spirit of Darkmoor's Thorn:
+388
+16% Power Pip Chance
+16% Damage
+12% incoming
+12% outgoing
(Socket): +5% outgoing x2

Amulet: Spirit of Darkmoor's Jewel:
+215
+4% Pierce
+4% Resist
(Socket): +5% incoming x2

Ring: Aphrodite's Evergreen Band:
+408
+12% Power Pip Chance
+8% incoming
+8% outgoing
+70 Critical
(Socket): +5% incoming , +5% outgoing

Boots: Abyssal Warrior's Boots:
+459
+5% Power Pip Chance
+14% Damage
+12% resist
+8% outgoing
+88 Critical
+1% chance

Robe: Shard Warrior's Armor:
+582
+8% Power Pip Chance
+92 Critical
+18% Resist
+24% Incoming
+3% chance

Hat: Krokopatra Vigor Fez
+531
+10% Power Pip Chance
+3% Pierce
+12% Resist
+137 Critical
+17% Damage
+6% Damage
+2% Chance

Pet: Ultra Clockwork Paladin
Gives 3 cards (Clockwork Paladin)
Proof
Defy
May cast Fairy
May cast Enfeeble
May cast Fortify
+15% resist (Ward Jewel)

I rest my case.

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
As an update, KI has still done nothing about Sanctuary, Shatter, or Guardian Spirit abuse.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
Posting to bump this thread.

If setting in Jade gear with Quint Resist Pet and Guardian Spirit and a deck replete with Sanctuarys and Satyrs, and casting Guardian Spirits and Fairies on yourself is KI's

- Idea of a good way to spend an evening
- design for player vs. player interaction
- conception of how to attract new members
- approach toward making pvp attractive for non-pvpers

then I sure think someone from KI should step up and say so.

on the other hand, if they agree with me that it is none of these things then I think it's incumbent on them to fix it without delay.

Until they do, KI is complicit in wasting people's time, and the internet is full of competition in that arena, and that form of pvp does not hold up very well as an alternative.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
494
Sure thing and while that's happening let's get rid of the infamous loremaster and all other lore spells from pvp including ward pets? It saddens me when people like to target spells that are in the exploitable category but when you are spamming your own there isn't any complaints and am pretty sure you're a loremaster spammer like every other balance I've encountered in pvp.

Defender
Jun 03, 2017
163
Well.. this is pvp. You can’t complain because you signed up for it! And, would you have a problem spamming those spells!? Also, most of the life overlords I’ve encountered, don’t use traps at all.... I tend to Efreet > FFA. As for those spells that should be removed, they shouldn’t. As I mentioned before, this is pvp, where all spells are allowed. Would you really want to remove a few spells from pvp, so you can get your Overlord title?

Defender
Jun 03, 2017
163
Exabytes on Dec 30, 2018 wrote:
KI, implement a ranked PVP timer. NOW.

Guardian Spirit and Shatter need to be removed from PVP. Period. If you want to remove all shields at once, use Earthquake or Aftershock. GS is self-explanatory, it should never have existed. Sanctuary's pip cost should be increased to about 7 to allow for players that DON'T carry only heals and shields and reshuffles to win the bubble war (if not removing it entirely).

Increase the effectiveness of trained Doom and Gloom to 85%. TC to 95%. The whole point of a bubble to stop healing is to STOP HEALING. 65% is not nearly effective enough when you can easily reach 65% incoming healing along with critical. Make it 1 Pip, not 2.

It's past time KI addressed Angel strategies in the Arena. I am tired of autolosing matches simply because I am not playing a Death or Ice wizard with max Dooms and Infections and blades in my deck to attempt to counter a strategy that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.

You cannot myth dispel Shatter if they pack Ether Shield, it will buy you some time if you time it correctly yes, but they will remove the dispel with a shield or wand hit and cast it again later anyway. There is no way to remove all school-specific traps at once with the exception of Dimension Shift () which is only available to myth wizards. Cleanse Ward only removes one trap at a time.

You will not be able to pack more Bubbles than theirs without compromising your deck. Furthermore packing only Cleanse Ward TC in your side deck is impractical and you will eventually run out anyway, as it is not trainable.

Triple Feint, Blade, Shatter, then hit, did you say? Empower, Weakness, Towers, Maycast Enfeeble, Maycast Fortify, Glowbug Squall TC. Even if it works and you somehow manage to kill her she revives again anyway with 4K hp unless you somehow win the bubble war.

Meanwhile, an Angel will Feint, Potent Feint, Hex, Curse, Life Trap, Potent Life Trap, TC Life Trap, Spirit Trap, Potent Spirit Trap, TC Spirit Trap, Life Fuel* (rare), Life Blade, Sharpened Life Blade, Elemental Blade, Sharpened Elemental Blade, TC Elemental Blade, Shatter => Shrike => Hungry Caterpillar. Obviously throw lots of shields, heals, and towers in between, but the result is the same.

Using Empower and Earthquake buys you time, but you will still never be able to kill them even if their blade and trap stacking doesn't oneshot you.

When I say this strategy has no counterplay when played properly, there is actually no counterplay. One of the many players abusing it that I have faced currently has ~2165 rank. AT MAX LEVEL.
The only counterplay is to blade into OHKO and then OHKO again, which is why out of the 'only 21' losses this player had, 11 were to Ice Wizards. Her words not mine. Her pet was an Ultra Clockwork Paladin (which spams the balance tri-shields), with Maycast Enfeeble, Fortify, and Fairy, plus proof defy, plus an Ice Ward jewel.

Full Stats come later.
And as for Doom and Gloom, it’s meant to limit healing. Not stop it. A prime example of it would be in The Graveyard of Castle Darkmoor.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
494
Exabytes on Dec 30, 2018 wrote:
From a Level 100 wizard which means that it's possible to actually get even more broken than this.

5998 HP
47% Damage
66% Incoming + 45% Outgoing . Note that both Incoming and Outgoing healing stack when you heal yourself.
61% Resist (76% to ).
10% Accuracy
621 Critical
7% Armor Piercing
91% Power Pip Chance
6% Shadow Chance

Satyr heals for 860 (Radical-Enchanted Satyr 1010). Critical 2020.
2020 * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4862.14
4862.14 x Sanctuary Global (1.5) = 7293.21.

Regular Satyr:
860 => 1720, * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4140.04. Add Sanctuary (1.5x) which gives 6210.06.

For 4 pips!

Critical Guardian angel:
6000 * 0.3 = 1800, * 1.66 * 1.45 = 4332.6 revival with no bubble (6498.9 under Sanctuary, 1516.41 under Doom). Basically Doom has to be up at all times.

Here is the item build:

Deck: Tatyana's Deck of Salvation
Max Spells 64, Max Copies 7, Max copies 10. 10! Good luck keeping Doom up.
Sideboard 40. Triangle Socket
+1 Pip

Wand: Tormentor's Skullsplitter
+7% incoming .
+181 Critical
Gives 3 wand hits of ,

Athame: Spirit of Darkmoor's Thorn:
+388
+16% Power Pip Chance
+16% Damage
+12% incoming
+12% outgoing
(Socket): +5% outgoing x2

Amulet: Spirit of Darkmoor's Jewel:
+215
+4% Pierce
+4% Resist
(Socket): +5% incoming x2

Ring: Aphrodite's Evergreen Band:
+408
+12% Power Pip Chance
+8% incoming
+8% outgoing
+70 Critical
(Socket): +5% incoming , +5% outgoing

Boots: Abyssal Warrior's Boots:
+459
+5% Power Pip Chance
+14% Damage
+12% resist
+8% outgoing
+88 Critical
+1% chance

Robe: Shard Warrior's Armor:
+582
+8% Power Pip Chance
+92 Critical
+18% Resist
+24% Incoming
+3% chance

Hat: Krokopatra Vigor Fez
+531
+10% Power Pip Chance
+3% Pierce
+12% Resist
+137 Critical
+17% Damage
+6% Damage
+2% Chance

Pet: Ultra Clockwork Paladin
Gives 3 cards (Clockwork Paladin)
Proof
Defy
May cast Fairy
May cast Enfeeble
May cast Fortify
+15% resist (Ward Jewel)

I rest my case.
I noticed most of the items presented here gear wise are pay to win gears especially the robe and boots. I dont run heal build on my life because its useless. I'm pro damage resist pierce as long as its balanced. Ultra work paladin does not work well with life without balance mastery esp at max level and no one uses mastery at max. Life critical is also low super low 137 critical is not even more than 1 percent. I am sitting at 491 crit which is only 33% which to give in all honesty compare to other schools is low. At 47% damage this is no were a threat at all in fact its laughable for pvp stats ur better off going jade which i despise more than anything.
With my build you have a chance of surviving most non- pressured schools such as . But am still having and will always have trouble with the infamous broken 3 school balance(broken),Ice and Fire.
So you want to nerf the only thing offensive life wizard have from coming back from a double shadow one shot kill or 3k instant damage so be it, but only if it means ice balance and fire gets nerf to the ground allowing schools such as to become top tier.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
168
angellifeheart on Mar 8, 2019 wrote:
I noticed most of the items presented here gear wise are pay to win gears especially the robe and boots. I dont run heal build on my life because its useless. I'm pro damage resist pierce as long as its balanced. Ultra work paladin does not work well with life without balance mastery esp at max level and no one uses mastery at max. Life critical is also low super low 137 critical is not even more than 1 percent. I am sitting at 491 crit which is only 33% which to give in all honesty compare to other schools is low. At 47% damage this is no were a threat at all in fact its laughable for pvp stats ur better off going jade which i despise more than anything.
With my build you have a chance of surviving most non- pressured schools such as . But am still having and will always have trouble with the infamous broken 3 school balance(broken),Ice and Fire.
So you want to nerf the only thing offensive life wizard have from coming back from a double shadow one shot kill or 3k instant damage so be it, but only if it means ice balance and fire gets nerf to the ground allowing schools such as to become top tier.
Life is the best school at max right now if you have a critical build. It destroys ices and balances easy, ice can't heal so you out tank them and kill. Balance can't blade stack so your heals will always do more then hits under heal bubble and you have gaurdian. Im making a life because its so good.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
494
Fred Frost on Mar 10, 2019 wrote:
Life is the best school at max right now if you have a critical build. It destroys ices and balances easy, ice can't heal so you out tank them and kill. Balance can't blade stack so your heals will always do more then hits under heal bubble and you have gaurdian. Im making a life because its so good.
This is highly incorrect. That's why life is being force to go jade or full critical heal build because simply put offensive life pvp is bad right now. Due to little to no actual utility at all. Pure healing doesn't accommodate for anything. We need an update effect to goat monk, a change effect on sacred charge a spell that is already so hard to get and nerf in heals. And i know its going to get nerf soon because alot of people are exploiting this method just like what happen with juju but again k i isn't gonna target pay to win gears but rather go the easy route and nerf spells without proper consideration or actual analysis.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
168
angellifeheart on Mar 10, 2019 wrote:
This is highly incorrect. That's why life is being force to go jade or full critical heal build because simply put offensive life pvp is bad right now. Due to little to no actual utility at all. Pure healing doesn't accommodate for anything. We need an update effect to goat monk, a change effect on sacred charge a spell that is already so hard to get and nerf in heals. And i know its going to get nerf soon because alot of people are exploiting this method just like what happen with juju but again k i isn't gonna target pay to win gears but rather go the easy route and nerf spells without proper consideration or actual analysis.
Life is meant for healing, people using critical builds are using life how its supposed to be, and its really good. Life is almost unbeatable from first, critical satyrs do 3800 no bubble, and there is guardian that gives you a second chance. Life is top tear right now.

Survivor
Jul 26, 2008
22
Remove sanctuary and shatter? LOL

I understand a nerf to GS or removing. The other 2 are pretty essential. At lower levels Life wouldn't even be able to put up a bubble war. 3 pips for sanctuary is already rough on grands vs a 2 pip doom spam. Shatter is useful to any school whether it be heal spammer or not.

Defender
Nov 08, 2009
122
I do not understand how a Balance wizard can complain about anything!
Balance has the ability to change the bubble, put weakness on, lower the opponents accuracy, remove the Aura, take the pips, heal, trap, shield and blade for any school. Has some of the most OP spells Gaze, sandworm and loremaster and you are complaining?
Oh, I get it because you can not remove the GS and others are removing your shields and changing your bubble.
I think it is a fair exchange of spells, maybe give Life an OP spells like Gaze, or storm a spell like loremaster.
That sounds good to me.

Defender
Mar 19, 2011
125
Exabytes on Dec 30, 2018 wrote:
KI, implement a ranked PVP timer. NOW.

Guardian Spirit and Shatter need to be removed from PVP. Period. If you want to remove all shields at once, use Earthquake or Aftershock. GS is self-explanatory, it should never have existed. Sanctuary's pip cost should be increased to about 7 to allow for players that DON'T carry only heals and shields and reshuffles to win the bubble war (if not removing it entirely).

Increase the effectiveness of trained Doom and Gloom to 85%. TC to 95%. The whole point of a bubble to stop healing is to STOP HEALING. 65% is not nearly effective enough when you can easily reach 65% incoming healing along with critical. Make it 1 Pip, not 2.

It's past time KI addressed Angel strategies in the Arena. I am tired of autolosing matches simply because I am not playing a Death or Ice wizard with max Dooms and Infections and blades in my deck to attempt to counter a strategy that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.

You cannot myth dispel Shatter if they pack Ether Shield, it will buy you some time if you time it correctly yes, but they will remove the dispel with a shield or wand hit and cast it again later anyway. There is no way to remove all school-specific traps at once with the exception of Dimension Shift () which is only available to myth wizards. Cleanse Ward only removes one trap at a time.

You will not be able to pack more Bubbles than theirs without compromising your deck. Furthermore packing only Cleanse Ward TC in your side deck is impractical and you will eventually run out anyway, as it is not trainable.

Triple Feint, Blade, Shatter, then hit, did you say? Empower, Weakness, Towers, Maycast Enfeeble, Maycast Fortify, Glowbug Squall TC. Even if it works and you somehow manage to kill her she revives again anyway with 4K hp unless you somehow win the bubble war.

Meanwhile, an Angel will Feint, Potent Feint, Hex, Curse, Life Trap, Potent Life Trap, TC Life Trap, Spirit Trap, Potent Spirit Trap, TC Spirit Trap, Life Fuel* (rare), Life Blade, Sharpened Life Blade, Elemental Blade, Sharpened Elemental Blade, TC Elemental Blade, Shatter => Shrike => Hungry Caterpillar. Obviously throw lots of shields, heals, and towers in between, but the result is the same.

Using Empower and Earthquake buys you time, but you will still never be able to kill them even if their blade and trap stacking doesn't oneshot you.

When I say this strategy has no counterplay when played properly, there is actually no counterplay. One of the many players abusing it that I have faced currently has ~2165 rank. AT MAX LEVEL.
The only counterplay is to blade into OHKO and then OHKO again, which is why out of the 'only 21' losses this player had, 11 were to Ice Wizards. Her words not mine. Her pet was an Ultra Clockwork Paladin (which spams the balance tri-shields), with Maycast Enfeeble, Fortify, and Fairy, plus proof defy, plus an Ice Ward jewel.

Full Stats come later.
I disagree.

I've been able to beat angels sometimes. Yes, it is hard, but sometimes you get lucky with right combination of hits and bubbles.

Yeah, sometimes I will just throw up my hands in disgust and flee. Usually I just draw it out until I either get lucky or run out of cards--hey if they want to spend an hour of their life on a duel instead of offer a stand-up fight, I sometimes accommodate them.

Defender
Sep 15, 2013
107
I disagree with shatter, you really can't overuse that spell. I have it as a maycast on a pet and it is useful, but the tradeoff resist. If you're fighting a shield spamming jade, or a shield spammer in general, it is a great spell but you can only use it once if you hope to hit as well, that is, if it's not a maycast. I do agree with sanctuary and guardian, that's just broken. Guardian needs to be limited. I have defeated a life wizard 6 times in a given match and then lost because I ran out of cards. That shouldn't be allowed.