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Rank max level team pvp has lost creativeness.

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Nov 22, 2012
29
Just about every 3v3 or 4v4 promethean leveled team I see all have the same basic team setup and strategy. Almost every team has 3 jades(healer/spammer of some sort) and a storm(or balance maybe) with mass critical, rarely i will see a 2 jade and 2 hitter team, and something I have never seen in promo rank(as far as I can remember) is a team without a single jade. And some of those jades have immunity to a single school.

Now, my problem here is that everybody is doing the same thing and it doesn't take much skill to learn the basics of how everyone is playing. Right now, it seems to be a matter of luck; who goes first, how much your pet heals, and the luck of critical/critical block. Every match seems to run on the same stuff, and I am not getting much fun out what seems to be happening match after match. Also, it doesn't give much room for players playing as hitters unless they're storm or balance. Storm is the most powerful hitter in the game with high critical, damage, and tempest, which can deal over 1700 with 1 power pip. Balance is hard to block with shields and has special spells like mana burn and supernova. The other schools don't have any good perks in team pvp. Not only that, I see deaths spamming jujus and fires spamming smoke mantles which really makes the matches stretch very long, and is extremely annoying as well. Death also has beguile, which if you don't think carefully cannot be avoided in anyway except to wait a turn. And as I can see, myth doesn't too much good hitting or jading in a team. Life's only all enemy attack is forest lord, which costs 8 pips. All I can say is that this is definitely not what KI was thinking that pvp would be like when they created this game. So I'm asking that schools(other than storm of course) should be given some perks so that they could make good attackers on a team(and I mean REALLY GOOD), cause its getting quite boring having storm overpower the dueling field with critical and constant tempest.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
wizardmaster8029 on Mar 19, 2014 wrote:
Just about every 3v3 or 4v4 promethean leveled team I see all have the same basic team setup and strategy. Almost every team has 3 jades(healer/spammer of some sort) and a storm(or balance maybe) with mass critical, rarely i will see a 2 jade and 2 hitter team, and something I have never seen in promo rank(as far as I can remember) is a team without a single jade. And some of those jades have immunity to a single school.

Now, my problem here is that everybody is doing the same thing and it doesn't take much skill to learn the basics of how everyone is playing. Right now, it seems to be a matter of luck; who goes first, how much your pet heals, and the luck of critical/critical block. Every match seems to run on the same stuff, and I am not getting much fun out what seems to be happening match after match. Also, it doesn't give much room for players playing as hitters unless they're storm or balance. Storm is the most powerful hitter in the game with high critical, damage, and tempest, which can deal over 1700 with 1 power pip. Balance is hard to block with shields and has special spells like mana burn and supernova. The other schools don't have any good perks in team pvp. Not only that, I see deaths spamming jujus and fires spamming smoke mantles which really makes the matches stretch very long, and is extremely annoying as well. Death also has beguile, which if you don't think carefully cannot be avoided in anyway except to wait a turn. And as I can see, myth doesn't too much good hitting or jading in a team. Life's only all enemy attack is forest lord, which costs 8 pips. All I can say is that this is definitely not what KI was thinking that pvp would be like when they created this game. So I'm asking that schools(other than storm of course) should be given some perks so that they could make good attackers on a team(and I mean REALLY GOOD), cause its getting quite boring having storm overpower the dueling field with critical and constant tempest.
Eh I disagree. I don't feel it's right to leave out storm with these perks. Storm is meant to be a high hitting school and having low defensive stats makes up for it. Although, I think tempest spamming is pretty cheap. All it takes is for an all storm team with insane damage and critical to go first and all of them use tempest on the first turn to end or nearly end the match.

Defender
Mar 30, 2010
175
Yep, I agree.

It's gotten MUCH worse now to with the Shadow Magic garbage as well.

There is NO skill left in any arena at all. PERIOD. Nobody can really deny this either. Shadow Magic truly has ruined the player vs player aspect of this game.

It's awful.

At least make shrike 25% even then it's still entirely too overpowered.

But at least then it's combatable then.

This 50% with a nearby 300 damage for backlash is just overpowered and then some. That's why I keep saying overpowered x 2 x 3 x4 because it really is THAT overpowred.

Eliminate Shadow Shrike from pvp or at least nerf it a little, it's unacceptable.

We are PAYING for creativity over at KI and this isn't creative at all.

It seems like the lazy way out of figuring out to fix the immunity nightmare

I have a Promethean and I still say Shrike is entirely overpowered.

There are MANY weaker spells that are PVP banned and Shrike isn't.

There is no point to the arena now. The game just exists as PVE as arena isn't anything with Shadow nonsense running about. Sorry arena is non-existent in Wizard101 while Shadow is around. There is no point to play it, it's just "auto-win" a lazy way out of fixing the immunity nightmare as I stated earlier.

We deserve better content than ideas like this.

Please add a LEGITIMATE COUNTER to Shadow Shrike as stun/fizzle is all there is now if they get their spell of you're pretty much done for. It takes all fun out of the arena and kills ALL creativity and make the turn system even more unbalanced.

Shadow Shrike needs to go, like yesterday. It's awful.

Thank you.

Mastermind
Mar 05, 2011
364
wizardmaster8029 on Mar 19, 2014 wrote:
Just about every 3v3 or 4v4 promethean leveled team I see all have the same basic team setup and strategy. Almost every team has 3 jades(healer/spammer of some sort) and a storm(or balance maybe) with mass critical, rarely i will see a 2 jade and 2 hitter team, and something I have never seen in promo rank(as far as I can remember) is a team without a single jade. And some of those jades have immunity to a single school.

Now, my problem here is that everybody is doing the same thing and it doesn't take much skill to learn the basics of how everyone is playing. Right now, it seems to be a matter of luck; who goes first, how much your pet heals, and the luck of critical/critical block. Every match seems to run on the same stuff, and I am not getting much fun out what seems to be happening match after match. Also, it doesn't give much room for players playing as hitters unless they're storm or balance. Storm is the most powerful hitter in the game with high critical, damage, and tempest, which can deal over 1700 with 1 power pip. Balance is hard to block with shields and has special spells like mana burn and supernova. The other schools don't have any good perks in team pvp. Not only that, I see deaths spamming jujus and fires spamming smoke mantles which really makes the matches stretch very long, and is extremely annoying as well. Death also has beguile, which if you don't think carefully cannot be avoided in anyway except to wait a turn. And as I can see, myth doesn't too much good hitting or jading in a team. Life's only all enemy attack is forest lord, which costs 8 pips. All I can say is that this is definitely not what KI was thinking that pvp would be like when they created this game. So I'm asking that schools(other than storm of course) should be given some perks so that they could make good attackers on a team(and I mean REALLY GOOD), cause its getting quite boring having storm overpower the dueling field with critical and constant tempest.
http://www.duelist101.com/wizard101-pvp-guides-2/beginner-guides/wizard101-top-level-pvp-mythbusters/

Honestly people think that there are only 2 builds at top level. That is a myth as this guide from Duelist101 says. Sure there are Critical Monsters and Jade turtles but there is also a middle line. Not many people get up to super high rank spamming or turtleing. Realistically no one gets up to that rank without a consistent solid strategy.

(thanks for the guide Nick)
Wolf Skullslinger

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
ViciousVenomousVix... on Mar 21, 2014 wrote:
Yep, I agree.

It's gotten MUCH worse now to with the Shadow Magic garbage as well.

There is NO skill left in any arena at all. PERIOD. Nobody can really deny this either. Shadow Magic truly has ruined the player vs player aspect of this game.

It's awful.

At least make shrike 25% even then it's still entirely too overpowered.

But at least then it's combatable then.

This 50% with a nearby 300 damage for backlash is just overpowered and then some. That's why I keep saying overpowered x 2 x 3 x4 because it really is THAT overpowred.

Eliminate Shadow Shrike from pvp or at least nerf it a little, it's unacceptable.

We are PAYING for creativity over at KI and this isn't creative at all.

It seems like the lazy way out of figuring out to fix the immunity nightmare

I have a Promethean and I still say Shrike is entirely overpowered.

There are MANY weaker spells that are PVP banned and Shrike isn't.

There is no point to the arena now. The game just exists as PVE as arena isn't anything with Shadow nonsense running about. Sorry arena is non-existent in Wizard101 while Shadow is around. There is no point to play it, it's just "auto-win" a lazy way out of fixing the immunity nightmare as I stated earlier.

We deserve better content than ideas like this.

Please add a LEGITIMATE COUNTER to Shadow Shrike as stun/fizzle is all there is now if they get their spell of you're pretty much done for. It takes all fun out of the arena and kills ALL creativity and make the turn system even more unbalanced.

Shadow Shrike needs to go, like yesterday. It's awful.

Thank you.
A lot of people can deny that shrike is overpowered, in fact I am doing so right now. We have explained to you how it is not overpowered, we have given you numerous counters that are not stuns or accuracy debuffs(even though these are some of the best AND most effective counters...why should they be discounted?) I'm a bit confused with what shadow spells have to do with creative. Sorry but until you start backing up your arguments they have very little weight in my eyes.

Explorer
Dec 23, 2010
52
ViciousVenomousVix... on Mar 21, 2014 wrote:
Yep, I agree.

It's gotten MUCH worse now to with the Shadow Magic garbage as well.

There is NO skill left in any arena at all. PERIOD. Nobody can really deny this either. Shadow Magic truly has ruined the player vs player aspect of this game.

It's awful.

At least make shrike 25% even then it's still entirely too overpowered.

But at least then it's combatable then.

This 50% with a nearby 300 damage for backlash is just overpowered and then some. That's why I keep saying overpowered x 2 x 3 x4 because it really is THAT overpowred.

Eliminate Shadow Shrike from pvp or at least nerf it a little, it's unacceptable.

We are PAYING for creativity over at KI and this isn't creative at all.

It seems like the lazy way out of figuring out to fix the immunity nightmare

I have a Promethean and I still say Shrike is entirely overpowered.

There are MANY weaker spells that are PVP banned and Shrike isn't.

There is no point to the arena now. The game just exists as PVE as arena isn't anything with Shadow nonsense running about. Sorry arena is non-existent in Wizard101 while Shadow is around. There is no point to play it, it's just "auto-win" a lazy way out of fixing the immunity nightmare as I stated earlier.

We deserve better content than ideas like this.

Please add a LEGITIMATE COUNTER to Shadow Shrike as stun/fizzle is all there is now if they get their spell of you're pretty much done for. It takes all fun out of the arena and kills ALL creativity and make the turn system even more unbalanced.

Shadow Shrike needs to go, like yesterday. It's awful.

Thank you.
Unfortunately, I will guarantee you that there is absolutely no way KI will take away a whole spell. Imagine all those people who like shrike because of the overpowerness? (Lol what)

Mostly kids, in fact. It'll be awful with all these angry children creating chaos in the forums spamming "Bring back shadow magic" messages.

The only thing we can do is not let KI make those same stupid mistakes over again.

Survivor
Apr 23, 2009
40
ViciousVenomousVix... on Mar 21, 2014 wrote:
Yep, I agree.

It's gotten MUCH worse now to with the Shadow Magic garbage as well.

There is NO skill left in any arena at all. PERIOD. Nobody can really deny this either. Shadow Magic truly has ruined the player vs player aspect of this game.

It's awful.

At least make shrike 25% even then it's still entirely too overpowered.

But at least then it's combatable then.

This 50% with a nearby 300 damage for backlash is just overpowered and then some. That's why I keep saying overpowered x 2 x 3 x4 because it really is THAT overpowred.

Eliminate Shadow Shrike from pvp or at least nerf it a little, it's unacceptable.

We are PAYING for creativity over at KI and this isn't creative at all.

It seems like the lazy way out of figuring out to fix the immunity nightmare

I have a Promethean and I still say Shrike is entirely overpowered.

There are MANY weaker spells that are PVP banned and Shrike isn't.

There is no point to the arena now. The game just exists as PVE as arena isn't anything with Shadow nonsense running about. Sorry arena is non-existent in Wizard101 while Shadow is around. There is no point to play it, it's just "auto-win" a lazy way out of fixing the immunity nightmare as I stated earlier.

We deserve better content than ideas like this.

Please add a LEGITIMATE COUNTER to Shadow Shrike as stun/fizzle is all there is now if they get their spell of you're pretty much done for. It takes all fun out of the arena and kills ALL creativity and make the turn system even more unbalanced.

Shadow Shrike needs to go, like yesterday. It's awful.

Thank you.
Shadow Shrike is completely counter-able. You can shield up (one Tower Shield completely eliminates Shrike's pierce), make them fizzle with Smoke Screen/Black Mantles (Hades Gear doesn't help much in accuracy anyways), stun them (almost no one blocks stuns anymore), dispel them (effective way to remove their cards and pips), or Beguile them (hitting their teammates in group PvP can completely obliterate their strategy).

Shadow Shrike-complaining is so been there-done that.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Eric Stormbringer on Mar 21, 2014 wrote:
A lot of people can deny that shrike is overpowered, in fact I am doing so right now. We have explained to you how it is not overpowered, we have given you numerous counters that are not stuns or accuracy debuffs(even though these are some of the best AND most effective counters...why should they be discounted?) I'm a bit confused with what shadow spells have to do with creative. Sorry but until you start backing up your arguments they have very little weight in my eyes.
Shadow shrike promotes strategies such as bolt and tempest spam, which in my opinion, is the opposite of creative. Is it creativity when you can use the same 2-4 spells the entire match and expect to win in a drawn out match? I certainly don't think so. Shrike has also made ice underpowered. Shield? There are these things called DoTs. Reduce accuracy? That relies entirely on luck. That is not a guaranteed counter. Also, when you are using things such as black mantle, you are not shielding, blading, or attacking, basically wasting a round. Stun? At most, you can stun for 2/3 rounds of the shadow shrike, which is not enough to prevent the opponent from destroying resist and shields. Before shrike, my ice was about to get warlord. After, well, I had to stop doing pvp to keep commander because of the 500 critical people that do thousands of damage every few rounds. Ice cannot deal damage that fast. It can only take so much damage. It requires tons of time to set up a decent attack. Shrike also destroys low level warlords. My level 50 balance, 2358 rating, battles level 95 privates almost every battle. Pierce reduces his resist to almost none, none without a shield. Even with his 84% damage, it takes a huge combo or many blades to deal enough damage to hit through 4000 health. Shrike makes it near impossible to survive long enough to do enough damage to kill the opponent. Even if I shield every round, the opponent can still, on average, do several hundred damage per round. I only have so much health. I should hope that, in pvp only, shrike could be reduced to 25% armor piercing. 25% armor piercing and 10% damage would still be powerful, almost certainly better, in my opinion, than shadow seraph or shadow sentinel. It would certainly be beteter, in my opinion, than almost completely destroying the effects of shields and resist in pvp.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
Aaron SpellThief on Mar 22, 2014 wrote:
Shadow shrike promotes strategies such as bolt and tempest spam, which in my opinion, is the opposite of creative. Is it creativity when you can use the same 2-4 spells the entire match and expect to win in a drawn out match? I certainly don't think so. Shrike has also made ice underpowered. Shield? There are these things called DoTs. Reduce accuracy? That relies entirely on luck. That is not a guaranteed counter. Also, when you are using things such as black mantle, you are not shielding, blading, or attacking, basically wasting a round. Stun? At most, you can stun for 2/3 rounds of the shadow shrike, which is not enough to prevent the opponent from destroying resist and shields. Before shrike, my ice was about to get warlord. After, well, I had to stop doing pvp to keep commander because of the 500 critical people that do thousands of damage every few rounds. Ice cannot deal damage that fast. It can only take so much damage. It requires tons of time to set up a decent attack. Shrike also destroys low level warlords. My level 50 balance, 2358 rating, battles level 95 privates almost every battle. Pierce reduces his resist to almost none, none without a shield. Even with his 84% damage, it takes a huge combo or many blades to deal enough damage to hit through 4000 health. Shrike makes it near impossible to survive long enough to do enough damage to kill the opponent. Even if I shield every round, the opponent can still, on average, do several hundred damage per round. I only have so much health. I should hope that, in pvp only, shrike could be reduced to 25% armor piercing. 25% armor piercing and 10% damage would still be powerful, almost certainly better, in my opinion, than shadow seraph or shadow sentinel. It would certainly be beteter, in my opinion, than almost completely destroying the effects of shields and resist in pvp.
Bolt spam is a strategy that won't get you very far in the arena at all. One of the reasons tempest spam is so effective is because of the mechanics of team pvp and the support storm wizards receive from jaded team members. Shrike does not make ice underpowered at all. Ice can gain great offensive stats while still retaining their defenses can completely negate shrikes effect with a tower shield and has a large health buffer to boot. DoTs have their own natural counters such as triage, shift, healing. I wouldn't call countering a spell a waste of a turn(is shielding, blading or any other setup move a waste of a turn?) particularly since it ensures that they are taking a large portion of their health as backlash. I believe the problems you are encountering on your ice are may be due to a failure to adapt to the meta. Ice can deal damage very fast especially against glass cannon schools who carry minimal resist. The low level warlord problem is a matching system problem, not a problem with shrike. As wizards continue to lvl up more and more abilities will be added to max lvls. Should these abilities then be nerfed so that lower lvl wizards can compete? Of course not. Shrike does not need a reduction in pierce at all and I do not support any such nerf.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Eric Stormbringer on Mar 23, 2014 wrote:
Bolt spam is a strategy that won't get you very far in the arena at all. One of the reasons tempest spam is so effective is because of the mechanics of team pvp and the support storm wizards receive from jaded team members. Shrike does not make ice underpowered at all. Ice can gain great offensive stats while still retaining their defenses can completely negate shrikes effect with a tower shield and has a large health buffer to boot. DoTs have their own natural counters such as triage, shift, healing. I wouldn't call countering a spell a waste of a turn(is shielding, blading or any other setup move a waste of a turn?) particularly since it ensures that they are taking a large portion of their health as backlash. I believe the problems you are encountering on your ice are may be due to a failure to adapt to the meta. Ice can deal damage very fast especially against glass cannon schools who carry minimal resist. The low level warlord problem is a matching system problem, not a problem with shrike. As wizards continue to lvl up more and more abilities will be added to max lvls. Should these abilities then be nerfed so that lower lvl wizards can compete? Of course not. Shrike does not need a reduction in pierce at all and I do not support any such nerf.
The current pvp system is largely in favor of the aggressive schools, and does not favor a defensive style of play. With defensive styles of play, many more builds were possible, allowing for much more creativity. As pvp is now, though, it's just a critical spam-fest. I know that something is wrong when I go in with 300 block and 55 resist and get hit with a 1000 per round heckhound for 4 pips with only infallible...

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
Aaron SpellThief on Mar 23, 2014 wrote:
The current pvp system is largely in favor of the aggressive schools, and does not favor a defensive style of play. With defensive styles of play, many more builds were possible, allowing for much more creativity. As pvp is now, though, it's just a critical spam-fest. I know that something is wrong when I go in with 300 block and 55 resist and get hit with a 1000 per round heckhound for 4 pips with only infallible...
There is no arguing that the playstyle is currently aggressive, it is. This is a meta shift from the defensive styles that dominated prior to the introduction of Aquilla and Shrike. However, I see a large amount of creativity in this meta as well. There are Hades sets, crowns sets, tournament sets etc. Many builds still are possible and the critical spam fest seems only to work at the lower ranks. At the higher ranks it is more about damage spiking, combo setting and health, pip and deck management. These are unfamiliar skill-sets to be sure but skill sets nonetheless that are no less creative than the sets possible in the defensive meta.