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PvP - Losing more points?

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Nov 26, 2008
37
Ok, Um...I think it's not fair that when we win as warlords, we get very low points and when we lose we lose a lot. Can you please fix this?

Explorer
May 22, 2008
76
That's perfectly fair. As a warlord, if you play someone with a lower rank than you, you "should" win. Why should you be heavily rewarded for an outcome that is expected of you?

It works exactly the same the other way. If I'm a new player and my rating is only 400, and I manage to beat a Warlord with a rating of 1000+, I should be given a lot of points because I "should" have lost that duel.

Explorer
Jun 11, 2009
67
GoodWill wrote:
Ok, Um...I think it's not fair that when we win as warlords, we get very low points and when we lose we lose a lot. Can you please fix this?


When you win against lower ranks you should get a few points and when you lose vs lower ranks you should lose more than the regular points.

It's called a competitive ranking system.

Survivor
Nov 26, 2008
37
Ugh, even my friends think it's not fair. And I think it's fair when we only get low points from lower ranks. But lets say I worked really hard and lost about 21+ points. It's not fair. And I don't care what you 2 think about it. It's MY opinion, so don't question it. I am mad because when I get those points, and then lose to a match, those points I have gotten are gone. And I bet your not a warlord so you don't know what its like. The points I lose are about 20+.

~Goodwill

Explorer
Jun 11, 2009
67
GoodWill wrote:
Ugh, even my friends think it's not fair. And I think it's fair when we only get low points from lower ranks. But lets say I worked really hard and lost about 21+ points. It's not fair. And I don't care what you 2 think about it. It's MY opinion, so don't question it. I am mad because when I get those points, and then lose to a match, those points I have gotten are gone. And I bet your not a warlord so you don't know what its like. The points I lose are about 20+.

~Goodwill


Forums are basically open to public opinion. If you posted your personal opinion even if it makes no sense what-so-ever, people will come expressing their opinion.

On with your comment on how I'm not a warlord, so I have no idea how it feels.
You're right I'm not I've only been pvping for a week now, but who's to say wizard 101 is the only PvP game out there that does this?
Try playing a real PvP competitive game like Starcraft and enter leagues, then tell me when you win 20 games and are a rank B and lose to a rank D when you're suppose to win you lose 120 points as opposed to losing 50 points to a rank B. That rank D that beat you would win much more points than a regular win and could be bumped up to D+ even.

Like I said before, competitive ranking system. Stop whining, many of us put time into PvP and win our duels and fight just as hard with frustration.

Defender
May 28, 2009
176
GoodWill wrote:
And I don't care what you 2 think about it. It's MY opinion, so don't question it. I am mad because when I get those points, and then lose to a match, those points I have gotten are gone. And I bet your not a warlord so you don't know what its like. The points I lose are about 20+.


Somebody needs a nap! Seriously, calm down. I can guarantee you that Quantize has been both a Grandmaster AND a Warlord many times over. Are you serious that you didn't look at how many posts he has made before you said something like that? This person has been around since May of 2008! I am also a Warlord just to let you know my qualifications before I give you MY opinion. I was frustrated with how the points system worked at first also. That was until it was explained to me. I am really surprised that you are still upset after you have been told how it works. A warlord should not be loosing to a captain or a commander or any other rank below them. There are big penalties if you do. So, don't loose. Look on the brighter side; if you loose enough rank you will get great points on you way back up the ladder. Yes, it is your opinion but we are trying to explain to you the "Facts". We did not design the game, we are just trying to help other players understand the game. So, let try not to insult the people who are trying to help you.

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

calm down. No one is questioning your opinion. They're just stating the facts and trying to explain how and why it works the way it does. You may not like it, but what they're saying is true and a perfectly reasonable explanation. Show a little Goodwill to the people that have answered.

GoodWill wrote:
Ugh, even my friends think it's not fair. And I think it's fair when we only get low points from lower ranks. But lets say I worked really hard and lost about 21+ points. It's not fair. And I don't care what you 2 think about it. It's MY opinion, so don't question it. I am mad because when I get those points, and then lose to a match, those points I have gotten are gone. And I bet your not a warlord so you don't know what its like. The points I lose are about 20+.

~Goodwill

Explorer
May 31, 2008
54
Ok well here is something that i don't think is fair, Ok i am a private(haven't dueled much this season) and my team 1 warlord 1 commander 1 captain and me(private), We were up against 4 warlords, They won, only be usig treasure cards and beguiling/stunning us. If we went first, we would have won. But even though i was a private of a 470 rating, i lost 28 POINTS. Somehow, Someone explain to me how that was fair.

-Swift

Defender
Mar 08, 2009
144
Well i know that warlords should win and get less points BUT getting only one point for winning is ridiculous and my opponent only lost 1 point for losing.







Joseph Sandrider level 29 Warlord
Joseph Liferider level 48 private

Survivor
May 29, 2009
2
I think its really unfair. Today I spent about an hour playing and I won 10 matches and got about fifthty points and then i lose ONE and lose 30 points. And there goes all my work. I understand a little but gaining one point is completely ridiculous.

Level 33 Commander

Survivor
May 29, 2009
2
And also another point I want to make. Everybody keeps saying that its fair because I am "expected" to win. But I am level 33 and fight grandmasters. So how am I "expected" to beat a grandmaster? If I fought other level 33's I would think its totally fair.

Survivor
Aug 20, 2009
12
I'm not for certain, but I 'd say the theory is that there are two different measurements: level and PVP rank. Level is a reflection of how much HP and Mana you have, your deck size, what spells you can use, etc. PVP rank is a reflection of how well you can use those tools. A person of lower rank is (usually) more likely to make strategic mistakes than one of higher rank. I can't really comment on the number of points lost from losing to a higher rank, though. If it's true that lose a fair number of points in that situation then it ought to be looked over.

Survivor
Mar 11, 2009
5
DiggerPat wrote:
I'm not for certain, but I 'd say the theory is that there are two different measurements: level and PVP rank. Level is a reflection of how much HP and Mana you have, your deck size, what spells you can use, etc. PVP rank is a reflection of how well you can use those tools. A person of lower rank is (usually) more likely to make strategic mistakes than one of higher rank. I can't really comment on the number of points lost from losing to a higher rank, though. If it's true that lose a fair number of points in that situation then it ought to be looked over.


I'd like to prove your theory about points being affected by level and rank because I am currently doing 1v1 right now with my LEVEL 12 balance wizard who is a warlord (beyond 1000 points). I fight people who have a higher level than me ALL THE TIME but lower rank like captain (highest I have fought so far), or private. They are mostly adpets, magus, and sometimes master. This is what happens all the time from what I have observed with my 10 battles ==> I win, I get 3 points at most (them being private then I get zero points at all) and when I lose, I lose 25 points or more with 31 being the highest so far. This is so unfair to me because I worked hard to get my rank then I lose a lot and gain a little and I am just a journeyman . So they don't equate the level this time from what I have observed (only rank) unlike before when I am able to get 13 points at least when I win even against private magus ( now I get zero). If you have any other theories please explain to me because right now I am agonizing much because of the unfair (in my opinion) points system they have right now. :(

Defender
Jul 18, 2009
160
The only way you are doing that well as balance at that level vs. who you would match up against is by treasure cards. So just like your cheap victories you should be awarded cheap points also.

Survivor
Jun 27, 2009
1
If you are a warlock and win against a private, it makes sense to gain less points. However the system is not working properly in my opinion. I am a veteran and when I win a match against other veterans I still gain 5 or 6 points and loose a match against other veterans or even captains, I loose 17-19 points. The system needs to be fixed.
binanc

Survivor
Apr 17, 2009
8
Yes. K. I. please fix this ASAP. I am commander and I dont mind losing a lot of points to privates as long as my opponent is at same level as me. But when I lose 30 points to a private 20 or more levels above me, now that's unfair. The system does not take levels into account and I think it's wrong. PLEASE fix this I am begging you.

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

There are a lot of people who do use treasure cards exclusively (wild bolt anyone?), but I think it's a bit unfair to judge this poster without knowing exactly what his style of play is.

I'm a level 21 balance wizard that just made commander. I don't use treasure attacks, but have had to resort to treasure tower shields to protect against spells like judgment. At balance level 12, I think it is possible to make warlord. At that point, you have balance blade and locust swarm which, at that level, is your bread and butter. Nothing can shield against it except tower shields. And unless you're battling ice, few people between the levels of 10-30 seem to have spent the 5 points needed to train tower shields. Some good crown gear will boost a level 12 wizard's health to a decent level too.

However, I think it is unrealistic to think that you can stay at warlord at that level though which brings us back to the original topic. Ranked PVP is an open competition not tiered by levels. As your rank grows, you will be pitted against higher and higher levels (who are probably lower ranked). A loss like that hurts plenty in terms of rank points, but KI has already provided a solution to that. Level up and gain more health and better spells. I'm taking a break from PVP to do just that so I can remain competitive.


hiway1999 wrote:
The only way you are doing that well as balance at that level vs. who you would match up against is by treasure cards. So just like your cheap victories you should be awarded cheap points also.

Survivor
Apr 17, 2009
8
Back to topic and I want to add another thing. As low level warlords we should get paired against people our level with high rank too. That way when we win or lose we gain/lose an average amount of rank points. I would prefer average any day to extremes. I think this is only fair. Why would they match us against private grandmasters? They have bigger deck, higher power pip percentage, higher level spells, higher attack points and defense, higher health and the list goes on. We struggle to win but only gain 1 or sometimes no point. I'd rather wait longer to get a fairer match than just being thrown against private grandmasters. And why cant low levels be warlords? Rank tells someone about their skills, regardless of their level. We definitely need a market for low level warlords (or commander etc).

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

That's exactly my point. The problem is not necessarily the way points are awarded, it's the matching system. You get matched against private grandmasters today because the W101 arena is an open competition. It is not tiered by levels. As long as it remains that way, you will be matched with higher level wizards and there's the assumption that your experience/strategy in the pvp arena given that you're a warlord will give you an even chance against a grandmaster. You said it yourself "Rank tells someone about their skills, regardless of their level."

I don't necessarily think that assumption is correct which is why I say it's unrealistic for a low rank to retain a rank of warlord for an extended period of time in an open competition where they can face opponents 15-20+ levels higher.

If there is a problem, it's not a problem with the point award system, it's whether the arena should be a open competition (all levels) or tiered by levels.



jeniroquai wrote:
Back to topic and I want to add another thing. As low level warlords we should get paired against people our level with high rank too. That way when we win or lose we gain/lose an average amount of rank points. I would prefer average any day to extremes. I think this is only fair. Why would they match us against private grandmasters? They have bigger deck, higher power pip percentage, higher level spells, higher attack points and defense, higher health and the list goes on. We struggle to win but only gain 1 or sometimes no point. I'd rather wait longer to get a fairer match than just being thrown against private grandmasters. And why cant low levels be warlords? Rank tells someone about their skills, regardless of their level. We definitely need a market for low level warlords (or commander etc).

Survivor
Dec 26, 2008
29
this is how it should be if your a low lvl warlord or commander you should be able to lose just about 14 points because your usually going up against someone higher of a lvl then you. If your a high warlord or commander or anything else you should just lose 20 points