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PvP is just not fair .........

1
AuthorMessage
Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
To All,

I have read over and over that PvP is not fair the way it is now.

I have read how Teams are crushing other teams now, especially Fire, Myth and Storm team. Players who use to Stun, or now use a Stun and multiple attackes, etc. Yes, some teams get together and go in with a solid win strategy, but is that wrong?

I think that saying PvP is not fair is totally incorrect, I think it is very fair, with maybe the exception of the first turn advantage. Even that is fair to some degree, based on the fact that you will go first approximately fifty percent of the time.

I have read that many low level wizards go against higher level wizards.
Yes, you will, but that is your fault, not Wizard101's fault.
You stayed in the Que too long, and it should have been limited to around 2 minutes.

I have read that many feel that WinterTusk spells didn't help them.
Well, in most cases the WinterTusk spells had little or no affect on PVP.
While on the ohter hand, they did help greatly in PVE.

I have read that many feel that the Waterworks gear boosted some Wizards and hurt other Wizards. With maybe the exception of Ice, it helped all Wizards, and really balanced PVP.

I will say it again, PVP is almost perfectly balanced now.

I would like someone to prove to me that is not true. I don't think that anyone can, as I have taken my brother's fire, my Storm, Balance and my Ice and done a lot of calculations.
If anyone has an edge, it's Myth and Fire, but a very small margin.
A margin so small, that it will only matter in the top of the PvP ladder.

All Wizards are as Balanced as they can be. Just as "Darthjt" said some time ago, it's the person behind the Wizard that is unbalanced, and that still holds true today.

Let me give you a few examples,

1. Digby Strongheart went up against two other players and won.
Was his Wizard twice as strong as the other players, no, it's just that Digby is a great player, that knows the game inside and out.

2. Nick S. wins over and over, against the same type of wizard some times, why. The same Wizard with the same Gear, same spells, same health.
How can that be, it's because Nick knows the game better than the other players. He understands all the different strategies and concept of Tempo.

3. How in the world did DerHund crush Player after Player, and just seemed unstopable. He came up with a new concept and strategy that no one had thought of. He fiqured out new ideas and ways to play the game.

4. What about Onin Knight, again the same as the three above, he understood the math, the spells, how all the spells worked, what to do when, the timing needed, on and on...............

So when I hear that the PvP game is not fair, it's not the game.
It's the new ideas, strategies and concepts that are not fair, the brain power of one player against another is what's not fair, and nothing more.

Joseph LionHunter.



Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Lion359 wrote:
So when I hear that the PvP game is not fair, it's not the game. It's the new ideas, strategies and concepts that are not fair, the brain power of one player against another is what's not fair, and nothing more.

Joseph LionHunter.


True. Though I would also add that time and determination are huge factors as well. Getting the right pet, making the treasure cards, assembling the correct gear... all of those are very time consuming and require a lot of determination as many of those activities are mind numbingly boring. Personally, I find those to be the biggest reasons that I rarely PvP. However, I don't get upset when I am beaten simply because I'm too lazy to assemble what is necessary to win. I have dumped hours upon hours questing for the perfect pet (anyone want a slightly used epic pet? I have plenty milling about my house.) and I still don't have it. If my opponent does... good on them. They certainly earned it.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
Well the thing i would say about it is that PvP isn't always fair. To say it is always fair makes no sense at all. Life isn't fair people have to understand that all aspects can be unfair. But to say something is completely fair isn't true. In my eyes everything has a flaw to it, we are humans we make mistakes our world has flaws. But trying to fix just makes bigger problems and bigger flaws. So I would just say people need to learn to deal with it. It isn't like it is unplayable. So to some it up i agree with you that people should just stop complaining and go with it, but i completely disagree when you say that it is all around fair because that just isn't true to me.

Champion
Feb 14, 2010
435
Lion359 wrote:
So when I hear that the PvP game is not fair, it's not the game. It's the new ideas, strategies and concepts that are not fair, the brain power of one player against another is what's not fair, and nothing more.


I think it's great that you have it all figured out but IMO ranked PvP (from level 5 to 60) is neither fair nor a true measure of ability.
If you want to say it's fun or entertaining I will let that slide, but it is anything but fair.

And yes, I have a Storm Warlord and paid my dues in the arena. I for one will not be found in the arena anytime soon unless it is just for kicks. :(

Explorer
Mar 19, 2010
65
Thats really not true at all.Its widely known that pvp is a complete disgrace to the game with the amount of problems in it.

Damage over time spells from fire wizards especially. (Heck hound.)

Judgement spamming. Everyone now assumes all balance warlords got there through judgement spamming (which is true for almost all balance warlords) so there is no pride in being a balance warlord.

Treasure cards. Just take them all out its beyond a joke how common they are used in pvp.

Whoever goes first system. Dont know which Einstien had this idea but its so good its awful and needs reforming.

Overpowered pets. Every low lvl has a pet that hits attack at least twice as strong as their own could ever hit. The advanced pets has done nothing but add to the lists of problems.

Crowns players getting better ranks because they are richer. (Basically its virtual democracy.)

The matchmaking system and the fact that two legends (private) can be partnered with a level 2 (private)and still be put up against 3 magus/adept players (Private-Knight).

The awful viewing system that makes it impossible to watch a match as easily as just spectating it from one of the players points of view and what they see in their duel.

The way certain schools dominate certain match types.
Balance level 28+ 1v1
Fire After heck hound 1v1/ lv 60 3v3 and 4v4
Ice, 2v2 and 4v4 (strongly.)

P.s How is it there fault if they stay in the queue too long? If they get out of it and go back in they still won't find a game. Your basically saying at some times of they day don't pvp because the game will not be kind to you for doing so and will partner you with higher level wizards.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
thorvon65 wrote:
Well the thing i would say about it is that PvP isn't always fair. To say it is always fair makes no sense at all.


While I agree that sometimes you have individual matches for which you could be outmatched, I find that PvP balances out overall. There is nothing that someone else does in this game which you can't. Life, on the other hand, isn't like that. In my opinion that makes PvP fair despite its individual match flaws.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
hp1055cm wrote:
I think it's great that you have it all figured out but IMO ranked PvP (from level 5 to 60) is neither fair nor a true measure of ability.


Fair and a true measure of ability are two different things. There is no advantage in the arena that I cannot acquire myself with enough time and patience. That makes it fair. However, I'm too lazy to do so which means you're correct in that its not a true measure of ability since in those ranges, my gear and pets will be completely outclassed in a rather short number of duels.

hp1055cm wrote:
And yes, I have a Storm Warlord and paid my dues in the arena. I for one will not be found in the arena anytime soon unless it is just for kicks. :(


Why would you ever play PvP for any reason other than kicks? Lion never asserted that PvP was fun... just fair.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
77296 wrote:
Thats really not true at all.Its widely known that pvp is a complete disgrace to the game with the amount of problems in it.


I'm not even sure where to begin with your post. PvP is VERY popular for being a disgrace. I read a lot messages on this board and the only people I've ever seen who describe PvP as a disgrace are the PvE people who wish that KI would take PvP out of the game so people would stop complaining (they won't of course... they're people after all so they'll just complain about something else instead). There are a few flaws in the system that can make an individual match mismatched (such as the matching system and first turn advantage), but that applies to everyone equally and since there is nothing someone can acquire or do which you cannot, it is indeed fair. Almost everything you list goes to prep and strategy.

77296 wrote:
Damage over time spells from fire wizards especially. (Heck hound.)


Use a dispel, triage, weakness, old fashioned shields, heal through it, or kill them before they can make it deadly.

77296 wrote:
Judgement spamming. Everyone now assumes all balance warlords got there through judgement spamming (which is true for almost all balance warlords) so there is no pride in being a balance warlord.


As above, dispel, weakness, shield, kill them before they build.

77296 wrote:
Treasure cards. Just take them all out its beyond a joke how common they are used in pvp.


You have a sidedeck and access to treasure cards as well you know.

77296 wrote:
Whoever goes first system. Dont know which Einstien had this idea but its so good its awful and needs reforming.


Its an inherent limitation of the game system which applies equally to everyone overall. Most good PvP players have a strategy for fighting from second position. Complaining about first position advantage is like complaining about luck.

77296 wrote:
Overpowered pets. Every low lvl has a pet that hits attack at least twice as strong as their own could ever hit. The advanced pets has done nothing but add to the lists of problems.


Make your own overpowered pet. Its not hard, just time consuming.

77296 wrote:
Crowns players getting better ranks because they are richer. (Basically its virtual democracy.)


How in the world do you link the two concepts of socio-economic disparity and democracy? This game offers complete equality of opportunity and complaining about money for crowns is ridiculous when a weekend of lawn mowing can provide you all the money you need for crowns gear. KI also offers the majority of crown items as drops from bosses. Go farm them if you want them. Yes, players using crowns can indeed get a quick advantage. However, it isn't necessary to win often enough to obtain arena gear (which is better at lower levels) and at higher levels neither crowns gear nor arena gear is necessary to win pretty consistently.

77296 wrote:
The matchmaking system and the fact that two legends (private) can be partnered with a level 2 (private)and still be put up against 3 magus/adept players (Private-Knight).


Yes, an individual match can be mis-matched. That's annoying. Still more annoying is playing people who are controlling 2 or more wizards on the other team. However, there is nothing stopping you from doing it as well and if that aspect bugs you, there is always 1v1.

77296 wrote:
The awful viewing system that makes it impossible to watch a match as easily as just spectating it from one of the players points of view and what they see in their duel.


How in the world does the viewing system have any bearing WHATSOEVER on the issue of PvP being fair?

77296 wrote:
The way certain schools dominate certain match types.
Balance level 28+ 1v1
Fire After heck hound 1v1/ lv 60 3v3 and 4v4
Ice, 2v2 and 4v4 (strongly.)


Think about what you just said. Of course there are schools that might have a slight edge in certain circumstances. That's why there are different schools. Good strategy will generally compensate for most imbalances, however, luck is a fickle mistress. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from making additional wizards if you believe they have an edge in certain PvP match types.

77296 wrote:
P.s How is it there fault if they stay in the queue too long? If they get out of it and go back in they still won't find a game. Your basically saying at some times of they day don't pvp because the game will not be kind to you for doing so and will partner you with higher level wizards.


This may be the only valid "unfair" point in your post. At certain times of day you may not be able to find a fair matchup. However, this is also not KI's fault since they can only match you up with players who happen to be online when you are. I find it difficult to believe that there isn't a time somewhere in a 7 day week that you can't find time to play when PvP is more populated if PvP matters to you.

In summary... In my opinion, if a situation provides you with equality of opportunity, then its as fair as it can be. The arena is such a place and as such it is fair. Perhaps not fun, but certainly fair.

Defender
Nov 11, 2008
111
Whats not fair in PVP is that low levels have to fight high levels due to thier rank. Or because a high level gets a low level with a low rank to create a match and then the high level joins with the low level. Then they get to fight low levels with low rank. The truth is, that anyone who does this stinks at PVP and tries to get tickets and rank by doing this. But then again, anything they do in PVP, you can do too.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
gtarhannon wrote:
thorvon65 wrote:
Well the thing i would say about it is that PvP isn't always fair. To say it is always fair makes no sense at all.


While I agree that sometimes you have individual matches for which you could be outmatched, I find that PvP balances out overall. There is nothing that someone else does in this game which you can't. Life, on the other hand, isn't like that. In my opinion that makes PvP fair despite its individual match flaws.


Right. My whole thing is like it isn't "Fair" but it is still balanced out and still works itself out. When people say it is unfair i always say it is completely true, But that doesn't mean that you don't get a chance and it isn't like that as soon as you come in you lose. So I mean I never see anything to wrong with it. But when your talking like "Oh the whole Game is perfect because i find it easy" Or something I just don't like people that post like that lol.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Gtarhannon and littlemole8 have stated very clearly for all.....

Posted by Gtarhannon...
"In summary... In my opinion, if a situation provides you with equality of opportunity, then its as fair as it can be. The arena is such a place and as such it is fair. Perhaps not fun, but certainly fair."

Posted by Littlemole8
"But then again, anything they do in PVP, you can do too."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every post that counters what I stated, are just asking for the game to be changed to the way they want it. The game was desinged a certain way, and has certain feature, and should be played with those features.

The two posts above clearly explain exactly what I was saying, but in a lot fewer words.
PvP is as fair as it can get, now after the WinterTusk Release.

It's the players that make it not fair, but that has nothing to do with the game it'self.

Joe
Joseph LionHunter.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
Lion359 wrote:
Gtarhannon and littlemole8 have stated very clearly for all.....

Posted by Gtarhannon...
"In summary... In my opinion, if a situation provides you with equality of opportunity, then its as fair as it can be. The arena is such a place and as such it is fair. Perhaps not fun, but certainly fair."

Posted by Littlemole8
"But then again, anything they do in PVP, you can do too."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every post that counters what I stated, are just asking for the game to be changed to the way they want it. The game was desinged a certain way, and has certain feature, and should be played with those features.

The two posts above clearly explain exactly what I was saying, but in a lot fewer words.
PvP is as fair as it can get, now after the WinterTusk Release.

It's the players that make it not fair, but that has nothing to do with the game it'self.

Joe
Joseph LionHunter.


My whole point of view is this. As long as the schools are different it won't be fair. But the system makes it as balanced as it can be. My problem is you have all these people that have no care for problems that don't concern themselves, so what might actually be a problem will never get fixed. So of course a lot of these post are just complaints. But some of them can be real and we should as PvP posters at least recognize these and then decide if it could be a legitamate problem or just a complaint. They at least deserve that.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
Lion359 wrote:
Gtarhannon and littlemole8 have stated very clearly for all.....

Posted by Gtarhannon...
"In summary... In my opinion, if a situation provides you with equality of opportunity, then its as fair as it can be. The arena is such a place and as such it is fair. Perhaps not fun, but certainly fair."

Posted by Littlemole8
"But then again, anything they do in PVP, you can do too."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every post that counters what I stated, are just asking for the game to be changed to the way they want it. The game was desinged a certain way, and has certain feature, and should be played with those features.

The two posts above clearly explain exactly what I was saying, but in a lot fewer words.
PvP is as fair as it can get, now after the WinterTusk Release.

It's the players that make it not fair, but that has nothing to do with the game it'self.

Joe
Joseph LionHunter.
what about a player without critical and critical Block forced to fight a player with critical chance? In this situation one side has a CLEAR and DISTINCT advantage. Sry Joe but it sounds to me that you enjoy fighting low levels with your legends. Well.... Do you? Before the ADJUSTMENT in the point system a level 10 would fight level 43 max because of the point cap. Do you even understand what it's like to take down someone of that level with seven TC's and fire elfs? Now unfortunately the arena is more unbalanced at low level than ever, but I do not expect you to see this from legendary perspective. I have high legendary warlords (1500+) AND low level warlords and can clearly see what has developed. How many people posting about it does it take for you to realize this is a problem?

Survivor
Jul 01, 2011
23
I also think pvp is pretty fair and i get really annoyed at how many pvp is unfair posts there is. glad someone else has my opinion.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
TravisAK posted:
"what about a player without critical and critical Block forced to fight a player with critical chance? In this situation one side has a CLEAR and DISTINCT advantage. Sry Joe but it sounds to me that you enjoy fighting low levels with your legends. Well.... Do you? Before the ADJUSTMENT in the point system a level 10 would fight level 43 max because of the point cap. Do you even understand what it's like to take down someone of that level with seven TC's and fire elfs? Now unfortunately the arena is more unbalanced at low level than ever, but I do not expect you to see this from legendary perspective. I have high legendary warlords (1500+) AND low level warlords and can clearly see what has developed. How many people posting about it does it take for you to realize this is a problem? "

Hi Travis,

I always enjoy your point of view, because I can't understand it, so it's always interesting to me. That's not meant to be a joke, I really don't understand it.

"what about a player without critical and critical Block forced to fight a player with critical chance? In this situation one side has a CLEAR and DISTINCT advantage. Sry Joe but it sounds to me that you enjoy fighting low levels with your legends. Well.... Do you?"
## One of the things I hate the most is when this happens, but they shouldn't ## stay in the que that long to get matched with me.
## My level 30 has a small chance at critical, and seems to go critical more
## than he should.
## To answer your question, No, and therefore I end it as fast as possible.
## But then remember, the level 15 or 30 that gets matched with a 60, will
## end up getting matched against those same low levels when they hit 60.
## What comes around goes around, it's just a simple cycle unless you never
## level up your player.

Before the ADJUSTMENT in the point system a level 10 would fight level 43 max because of the point cap. Do you even understand what it's like to take down someone of that level with seven TC's and fire elfs? Now unfortunately the arena is more unbalanced at low level than ever, but I do not expect you to see this from legendary perspective. I have high legendary warlords (1500+) AND low level warlords and can clearly see what has developed.
## Yes, the crying and complaints have generated this problem, and that's
## the whole reason I posted this post.. you gotta see that now.
## The more people just complain without realizing what effect they
## will have, the more problems that will be generated.
## As the post above this states, the Wizards diversity of spells is so
## important to this game. It is what makes the game as awesome as it is.
## Take that away, and you destroy the game, and generate a new one, one
## that will be a far lesser game.

## I hate to say it to you of all people, but this is what DarthJT has
## been saying for a long time now. It took me a while to fully grasp
## all of what he was saying.

How many people posting about it does it take for you to realize this is a problem?
## The problem is the players, not the game, (can't you realize that).
## Do me a favor, look at the players who posted, and tell me how many
## are in the Commander, Warlord (or Overlord) level? Then tell me how
## many of these mismatches were caused by someone joining pvp and
## waiting more than 10 to 15 minutes before the match came up.
## The Professors clearly warn against this, when they explained how the
## Que system worked.

## Btw, the last five matches my level 15 has had, the opponent was either a
## 15 or very close to that. I was watching for this, before I posted, just to
## see what I would get. So I think the que system is good, maybe not perfect.

Travis, looking forward to your reply, hope your having a great summer.

Joe.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
Lion359 wrote:
## I hate to say it to you of all people, but this is what DarthJT has
## been saying for a long time now. It took me a while to fully grasp
## all of what he was saying.



I understand people are adopting everything DarthJT said and trying to replicate this because he is thought of the ultimate anti complainer. But really it was almost contradictory. I have to disagree everyone agreeing with what Darth is really lessing the game. He called people complainers in PvP message boards. But in the dorms he almost always pushed and complained for new idea that were very very biased. He wanted tempest to be a DoT overtime spell and still be an X pip and attack all, so he aimed for only storm students. Plus he wanted his pet spells to be doubled in casting because he was saying that his pet wasn't casting enough tower shields.

Joe while I have agreed with you in the past and really respected a lot of your posts. And believe me if you read other posts this is hard for me but Travis is right lol.

The KI employees can obviously when something is a problem. Just because a lot of complaints are made doesn't mean they have to fix the problem if they don't feel it is a problem. However these legitamate problems that are posted can offer insight to something that may need be fixed.

Darth sometimes had well thought out posts. But it seems that everyone that follows him doesn't understand that there are such things as problems lol. The generation of posters we have here it is a disgrace to me we have to do more. All we ever do on these message boards(Me included) is just call people complainers, some can be just emotional rants and complaints. But some are true problems and the more we just say they are complaining, nothing will ever get fixed, which is why people are leaving. So I have to side with Travis saying we have to think of greater good for all players of this game and not just things that benefit ourselves.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
Hey Joseph...

You fail to read and absorb the clear examples of some advantages allowed to high level wizards that low levels DO NOT GET. I'm sorry you don't understand some if what I'm explaining to you, perhaps I will type a little slower and use smaller words so you can get it ok..

Hey Joseph, you say there is nothing in this game that one wizard can do and the other can't right? What about gargantuan? I'll just explain a little more so you can understand ok... Gargantuan is a trainable spell to increase damage by 250 which becomes quite effective when boosted. It is available as a treasure card but only to levels 55+?? I thought everything was even Steven?? Why would the system allow the higher level wizard with better gear health and spells get the advantage with the spell gargantuan? Are you following me? You see my level 10 gets blasted with gargantuan enchanted spells, an option not afforded to me at this level. What about polymorph... Is it coming clear yet?

Oh and by the way Joe, I've been at this awhile. I knew digby strongheart personally during dragonspyre days, fought him lots way back in the day before you decided to read a little on central. I know the arena inside and out and trained with people like Carlos (you heard?) I can distinguish a issue from a complaint, but thank you for the reply anyway....

You have a good summer too by the way.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Thorvon65,

Ya know, I have to agree with you, there are real complaints being made. Plus I don't agree with everything that Darthjt said, and often I would not get involved in the postings when I disagreed with them. I use to sit back and watch what others had to say, before getting involved, if I did.

The point I was trying to make, is that a lot of the complaints are just that people don't understand how the game works. Or they don't like the Spamming and Treasure card abuse. But that is part of the game, just like only staying in the Que for 2 mintues, so you don't get a mismatch.

One point I want to make on not understanding the game, is that KI is here to make money. They can't maintain the game if they don't sell Crowns, get more to join (and play more), and Memberships.
I think they want the best game they can get, and they do listen to us.
The problem is that, they can't make everyone happy, it's just not going to happen. As soon as they fix one area, they will make others unhappy, and that is exactly what has happen several times now.

So were I can see Travis's point of view, I can't agree to keep asking KI to fix one area to break another area. Then we have a ton of complaints crop up, just as the last fix or change did. So if I see it balanced in certain ways, I have to say that.

I should be the one complaining here, not Travis, as they took my Ice out of PVP, and made him so weak, he almost can't win a match.
But me, just like anyone else, can bring up a different wizards, as we have up to six choices.

I can agree with certain postings, but I have to disagree with a lot of them. As the person posting them are only looking at it from a small point of view, and I try to point that out.

Travis on the other hand, knows the game well, far better than I do.
But in some of his postings, I just don't completely understand his point of view. Maybe this has something to do with how long he has played the game compared to me, idk.

Joe.


Defender
Apr 01, 2011
154
I think it is important when you write posts such as this that you clarify what perspective you are writing from to avoid misunderstandings.

After reading through the entire thread, it is clear to me that you Joseph was writing from a legendary perspective without clearly stating so and that this created problems.

I was further surprised to read that he does not seem to think the rating change (to include levels as well as ranks) was not an excellent change since more than nine out of ten PvPers will agree that it was an excellent change.

Of course a legend didn't stand to benefit from it one bit, since it took away their ability to make easy points from extremely low level warlords who could not block their critical strikes -.-.

I think it is very important when we come to the boards that we realize what perspective we are writing from and not just look at what would benefit our own particular play-style - the exception being, if you only know PvP with one school obviously just talk about that school - and it doesn't mean you are being unfair to other schools.

Many players that will play this game only for PvP will never bother to create a legend wizard. I'm the perfect example of that case - well, I do intend to level my death (level 15) to legend but that will take me an unrealistically long length of time and I'm too much of a busy adult to think I will ever get there.

So, let's not write a post making a blanket statement that all PvP is fair because MAYBE its fair at legend level (i dont know bc i dont have a legend). The truth is that a level 28 ice wizard can get to warlord without a shred of commander gear and a level 28 storm wizard can't (well at least they couldn't under the old scoring system, I dont know if its possible under the new scoring system. my guess is that it is still impossible bc storm is just that crippled at level 28/29).

There's a whole slew of players that would play this game for its lagless PvP, something so common on other mmorpgs - and those players that exist between 0 and 50 would be right to call for balance, not maybe at every single level but at least every ten levels, in order to be able to enjoy PvP as they level (or never level like me).

LW


Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
travisAk wrote:
I knew digby strongheart personally during dragonspyre days, fought him lots way back in the day before you decided to read a little on central.


What is with digby strongheart i knew him for a bit and he was mean. I beat like once in PvP and then told like one of my friends that she couldn't hang out with me if she wanted to be his friend.. And then he was saying how i was a chain stunner ( Even Though I used my ice to fight him). Because i told him i was working on my myth and he was like what your a chain stunner dude that isn't cool ( I didn't even chain stun on myth i was a 1v1 minion user)... I don't understand why everyone looks up to him.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
Lion359 wrote:
Thorvon65,

Ya know, I have to agree with you, there are real complaints being made. Plus I don't agree with everything that Darthjt said, and often I would not get involved in the postings when I disagreed with them. I use to sit back and watch what others had to say, before getting involved, if I did.

The point I was trying to make, is that a lot of the complaints are just that people don't understand how the game works. Or they don't like the Spamming and Treasure card abuse. But that is part of the game, just like only staying in the Que for 2 mintues, so you don't get a mismatch.

One point I want to make on not understanding the game, is that KI is here to make money. They can't maintain the game if they don't sell Crowns, get more to join (and play more), and Memberships.
I think they want the best game they can get, and they do listen to us.
The problem is that, they can't make everyone happy, it's just not going to happen. As soon as they fix one area, they will make others unhappy, and that is exactly what has happen several times now.

So were I can see Travis's point of view, I can't agree to keep asking KI to fix one area to break another area. Then we have a ton of complaints crop up, just as the last fix or change did. So if I see it balanced in certain ways, I have to say that.

I should be the one complaining here, not Travis, as they took my Ice out of PVP, and made him so weak, he almost can't win a match.
But me, just like anyone else, can bring up a different wizards, as we have up to six choices.

I can agree with certain postings, but I have to disagree with a lot of them. As the person posting them are only looking at it from a small point of view, and I try to point that out.

Travis on the other hand, knows the game well, far better than I do.
But in some of his postings, I just don't completely understand his point of view. Maybe this has something to do with how long he has played the game compared to me, idk.

Joe.



Thank you Joe I loved reading your response.

And it makes complete sense I think I joined around the same time as Travis Did but that doesn't mean I agree with all the time, it is very seldom actually. But that doesn't mean any player is better by length of time they have played. I truly don't beleive that just playing longer than others means you know more than them. I know people that had just joined that almost understand the game more than people I havek known since i started playing.

But your right that was a key fault that some of the posters on PvP had. And I know I did as well sometimes. They are so many just vein complaints that are just because they don't understand the game, but then there are some actual problems that won't get recongnized if they are called a complaint and that was the main reason I disagreed with Darthjt because he called everything a complaint and almost always defended that the game was perfect. However I don't know if I can say that all people that want this are doing it for the betterment of PvP because a lot that support this have a Low leveled PvPer. So i'm hoping people can understand more if posters that won't gain anything from it at all can show others that it is a real problem. For example i don't have a low level PvPer, I really don't know a ton just a very few that pvp at low levels and I just use what I have learned from them and what i have seen to make my point on it.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Joe,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your assertion was not that individual matches can be unbalanced/mismatched, but that ranked PvP as a process or event is fair. That's the way I took it. In that vein:

PvP is fair because it does offer the same equality of opportunity to everyone. I understand that low level PvP is very popular and that people such as Travis and Laura participate in it regularly. However, KI never created a ranked PvP "product" with banding options (setting upper and lower level limits or restricting certain types of gear, etc). They have just ranked PvP and that's all. When you purposely choose not to level your wizard to participate in a gray area of ranked PvP, you are making the same kind of decision that lower level wizards make when they don't have perfect pets and full arena gear. You have the same opportunity to level your wizard for more power that everyone else has, you just choose not to.

At some point, you will start getting matched up against wizards that have so much power that even your superior arena gear, deck prep, perfect pet, and seasoned arena experience can't compete. That doesn't make PvP unfair. Until such time as KI actually creates a banded option for ranked PvP, you're trying to play the system in a way for which it wasn't intended and I'm sorry, but my years as a computer guy come through loud and clear here... If you're trying to use a product for a purpose that it wasn't designed for, you use it at your own risk. Developers make changes to the core for the CORE purpose of the product and they shouldn't have to worry about all the ways that people were using it outside of its intended purpose.

That's my take on it.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Well, I have to admit, it is good to be back, however, with the state things are in, I told you what would happen, if things go unchecked.

The new scoring system, is not what most of you think it is.

You can be a level 26 warlord, within 2 minutes, sometimes a minute or less, be matched up against Legendary to Grandmaster easily.

Now, some might lead you to believe that you will only lose 5 rank points during this match up.

However, when some of these Legendary or high level wizards down rank below private, they get a lot more rank points, even up to 20 points, even with the level difference.

Now, to me, this shows just how unfair PvP match system and scoring system is. TravisAk, as much as we usually don't see eye to eye, hit the nail on the head on this one.

This change needs to be fixed. Nobody that is a level 26 warlord wants to face legendaries all the time. Yes, challenges are nice, but no gear at that level gives critical block. They have a much bigger deck, better spells, better enchantments, even better resistance.

Now, I agree, that a Legend should not get many points for defeating anyone low level, if that was/is the case. However, this game seems to support the Bully Factor, when it comes to matchups! It used to be, the longer you waited, the more of a mismatch you would get, however, that is no longer the case.

You can simply get a huge mismatch by clicking quick join.

Why? Because a lower level warlord is apparently considered the same as a private Legendary!

Now, if a low level warlord, was given gear, decks, wands, to face a legendary, then this would not be a problem. If it rarely happened or happened only if you stayed in que for too long, this would not be a problem, however, this mismatch can happen instantly and happens quite often, even during the busy times of pvp.


Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
travisAk wrote:
Hey Joseph...

You fail to read and absorb the clear examples of some advantages allowed to high level wizards that low levels DO NOT GET. I'm sorry you don't understand some if what I'm explaining to you, perhaps I will type a little slower and use smaller words so you can get it ok..

Hey Joseph, you say there is nothing in this game that one wizard can do and the other can't right? What about gargantuan? I'll just explain a little more so you can understand ok... Gargantuan is a trainable spell to increase damage by 250 which becomes quite effective when boosted. It is available as a treasure card but only to levels 55+?? I thought everything was even Steven?? Why would the system allow the higher level wizard with better gear health and spells get the advantage with the spell gargantuan? Are you following me? You see my level 10 gets blasted with gargantuan enchanted spells, an option not afforded to me at this level. What about polymorph... Is it coming clear yet?

Oh and by the way Joe, I've been at this awhile. I knew digby strongheart personally during dragonspyre days, fought him lots way back in the day before you decided to read a little on central. I know the arena inside and out and trained with people like Carlos (you heard?) I can distinguish a issue from a complaint, but thank you for the reply anyway....

You have a good summer too by the way.


Wow Travis,

Thanks for the "good summer comment", didn't go along with the rest of the posting at all...... don't even know why you added it.

I can remember you screaming on the boards about being abused, in several postings........ and to think I felt sorry for you, not anymore.

Ok, I have drawn the conclusion that Darthjt has a split personality, and has two accounts to post on. You are the second personality.....imo.
(sorry Darthjt, just making a point to Travis).

Joe.

Delver
Feb 18, 2010
258
thorvon65 wrote:
travisAk wrote:
I knew digby strongheart personally during dragonspyre days, fought him lots way back in the day before you decided to read a little on central.


What is with digby strongheart i knew him for a bit and he was mean. I beat like once in PvP and then told like one of my friends that she couldn't hang out with me if she wanted to be his friend.. And then he was saying how i was a chain stunner ( Even Though I used my ice to fight him). Because i told him i was working on my myth and he was like what your a chain stunner dude that isn't cool ( I didn't even chain stun on myth i was a 1v1 minion user)... I don't understand why everyone looks up to him.


uhhhhhhhh....who's digby strongheart? i've never heard of him before :?

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