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Puppet Teams

1
AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1359
I kind of understand what you mean. After, alot of people that complain about this usually don't understand how it works.

Basically, what the current PvP system does is find the average level of a team then find a team with that same average level. so a 2v2 team of a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 would equal:

(70+1)/2 = 30.5.

Basically, you would find such an average number among say, a lvl 41 and lvl 30. Technically despite this being an exploit, it IS possible for the magus/master team to win, should they make the most out of their shields, hits, buffs, heals and treasure cards.

However, at the same time, I kind of understand the complainers, but the only way to technically fix this error is to rather instead of basing a team and it's opponent on the Teams' average as whole, the Pvp system would find an INDIVIDUAL average (in other words, judge a team on each individual wizard's levels). If this goes through, a team with a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 will be paired with a team of similar levels rather then a magus/master team, and this situation will perhaps never be heard of again. But still, maybe This problem will never be dealt with.

Hunter Hunter, Master of Storm

Survivor
Aug 23, 2011
19
While averaging a team score based on level and rank for matching purposes is, of course, the place to start, a Level 70 & 1 team does not fairly equate to 2 level 35's team (fixed your math a little there Ronster55 ;)

I don't propose banning those teams at all, just match them to a more evenly matched opposing team. I post a formula that would take into account the disparity in Level & Rank between team members and increase the overall "Team Score" the greater the disparity, not punishingly so, just to make the match more even. In this case, under what I post, the level 70 & 1 team (assuming Private rank for simplicity here) would be more accurately paired against 2 level 44's. That just makes for a more even match.

I'd love to get some traction on this. If you are interested please read my post:
2v2 (and other multi Rank) Pairing Exploit
and feel free to comment to let KI know if you think it's a good idea for them to employ it!

Champion
Jul 30, 2010
441
joujou11cool wrote:
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.
i dont like it yes, but i was just wondering, are you against people ranking down then pvping with say warlords? also i have seen some of these 2v2's with 1 lvl 70 and 1 lvl 1 on both teams. It was very amusing to watch.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
hanable33 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.
i dont like it yes, but i was just wondering, are you against people ranking down then pvping with say warlords? also i have seen some of these 2v2's with 1 lvl 70 and 1 lvl 1 on both teams. It was very amusing to watch.


I don't mind ranking down and facing a warlord, because it's a title, the player that wins wins. Warlord is a rank that means you've ranked pvped a lot, and also means you're quite experienced, and anyone cause face a warlord, really, and you hardly lose much rank if you lose to one.

Survivor
Sep 18, 2009
27
Ronster55 wrote:
I kind of understand what you mean. After, alot of people that complain about this usually don't understand how it works.

Basically, what the current PvP system does is find the average level of a team then find a team with that same average level. so a 2v2 team of a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 would equal:

(70+1)/2 = 30.5.

Basically, you would find such an average number among say, a lvl 41 and lvl 30. Technically despite this being an exploit, it IS possible for the magus/master team to win, should they make the most out of their shields, hits, buffs, heals and treasure cards.

However, at the same time, I kind of understand the complainers, but the only way to technically fix this error is to rather instead of basing a team and it's opponent on the Teams' average as whole, the Pvp system would find an INDIVIDUAL average (in other words, judge a team on each individual wizard's levels). If this goes through, a team with a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 will be paired with a team of similar levels rather then a magus/master team, and this situation will perhaps never be heard of again. But still, maybe This problem will never be dealt with.

Hunter Hunter, Master of Storm


It's not the concept of fighting and losing to a critical hit by a lvl 70. its the fact that as a commander rank, the winning level 1 wizard gets the 20+ points for the win and ranks faster with doing less work.

Kings Isle should make a program that will automatically STOP the high level with matching with low levels on the same team.

One solution. Get a separate podium for legends to trans.
another - write a program the stops the joining of teams with more than 10 levels difference.
3rd - set the rewards of tickets / points to set amount. (wins - 14 tickets / 10 points. Losses - 4 tickets / 0 points.


Hero
Jun 08, 2009
794
Bedard101 wrote:
Ronster55 wrote:
I kind of understand what you mean. After, alot of people that complain about this usually don't understand how it works.

Basically, what the current PvP system does is find the average level of a team then find a team with that same average level. so a 2v2 team of a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 would equal:

(70+1)/2 = 30.5.

Basically, you would find such an average number among say, a lvl 41 and lvl 30. Technically despite this being an exploit, it IS possible for the magus/master team to win, should they make the most out of their shields, hits, buffs, heals and treasure cards.

However, at the same time, I kind of understand the complainers, but the only way to technically fix this error is to rather instead of basing a team and it's opponent on the Teams' average as whole, the Pvp system would find an INDIVIDUAL average (in other words, judge a team on each individual wizard's levels). If this goes through, a team with a lvl 70 and a lvl 1 will be paired with a team of similar levels rather then a magus/master team, and this situation will perhaps never be heard of again. But still, maybe This problem will never be dealt with.

Hunter Hunter, Master of Storm


It's not the concept of fighting and losing to a critical hit by a lvl 70. its the fact that as a commander rank, the winning level 1 wizard gets the 20+ points for the win and ranks faster with doing less work.

Kings Isle should make a program that will automatically STOP the high level with matching with low levels on the same team.

One solution. Get a separate podium for legends to trans.
another - write a program the stops the joining of teams with more than 10 levels difference.
3rd - set the rewards of tickets / points to set amount. (wins - 14 tickets / 10 points. Losses - 4 tickets / 0 points.

Writing a program like that would be way easier said then done. Also, what if a higher level just wanted to play with a lower leveled friend?

Survivor
Jan 23, 2010
1
they should stop that puppet teams are just cheaters...king isle should make pvp different...where all of the legendarys fight against legendary and up or hing rank grandmasters...and grandmasters and below can fight equally...becasue they dont have critical block or attack. :(..

Delver
Aug 14, 2009
251
Puppet teams needs to stop, they are taking away ranks that people earned. I would rather EARN my rank than to use a cheap method to get it.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
teams should be matched based upon the highest level of the players, so a level 70 playing with a level 1 as a partner would be paired against a level 70 team rather than a level 35

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
What if you just started pvp, and you wanted to pvp with your friend. You go fight a puppet team, and they taunt you at how bad you are at pvp. You then give up on pvp for awhile. This happens to many people, and it's not O.K.

The excuse of "just level up" is false. What if I like low level pvp? Why should puppet teams ruin that experience?

Defender
May 29, 2011
134
seasnake wrote:
teams should be matched based upon the highest level of the players, so a level 70 playing with a level 1 as a partner would be paired against a level 70 team rather than a level 35


Heck no. I play with my level 40 buddy all the time and we would hate this.
We dont puppet team, its completeky innocent. Anyway, the way i see it we vs double lvl 60 privates all the time. When we win we get 5 points, when we lose its 25 points. ( my death wiz is captan lvl 62 he is lvl 41 commander ) We both have pvp warlords both its fun to play lower levels for a change. What i hate is how kingsisle's system says the matches are fair but the points aren't.

Explorer
Aug 14, 2011
67
joujou11cool wrote:
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.


So, because people pay their subscriptions like the rest of us, they have an excuse to exploit the PvP system? They even may pay for 4 accounts, but some of us take months to get to half the rank they are getting to (about 2000), which would probably take the same amount of money, or even more. Just because a bunch of cheaters have taken control of PvP doesn't mean that we are forced or subjected to level and not enjoy our style of play.

Truth be told, I love battling puppet teams. The 2 magus vs. 1 transcended really makes it fair...
WRONG! Everyone simply knows this. Once critical comes into play, fairness goes out the window.

It isn't out of pure hatred or anger that I am posting this. It's out of how much I want PvP to be fair.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
lucara wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.


So, because people pay their subscriptions like the rest of us, they have an excuse to exploit the PvP system? They even may pay for 4 accounts, but some of us take months to get to half the rank they are getting to (about 2000), which would probably take the same amount of money, or even more. Just because a bunch of cheaters have taken control of PvP doesn't mean that we are forced or subjected to level and not enjoy our style of play.

Truth be told, I love battling puppet teams. The 2 magus vs. 1 transcended really makes it fair...
WRONG! Everyone simply knows this. Once critical comes into play, fairness goes out the window.

It isn't out of pure hatred or anger that I am posting this. It's out of how much I want PvP to be fair.


Really? Critical is a problem to low level pvp? Try using Conviction, and you'll survive a lot longer. Use Weakness, Plague, Virulent Plague, Legion Shield, Tower Shield... Getting to warlord isn't supposed to be an easy ride, expect a challenge once in a while.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Getting to warlord isn't supposed to be an easy ride, expect a challenge once in a while.

Sorry, I meant to say:
Getting to warlord isn't supposed to be an easy ride, accept a challenge once in a while.

Survivor
Feb 10, 2011
3
joujou11cool wrote:
So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.


No reason to have second thoughts about what your describing...others call it the "puppet team" exploit. It's a malicious, underhanded way to play. Abusing the match up system so that your level 70 can beat down players 40 levels lower than you...this is very wrong by any reasonable standard. Its a truly viscious way to play. Sorry to hear that you're fine with it...it's an exploit that made group pvp virtually unplayable for most players. I sincerely hope KI can fix it soon.

Survivor
Dec 09, 2008
49
joujou11cool wrote:

Really? Critical is a problem to low level pvp? Try using Conviction, and you'll survive a lot longer. Use Weakness, Plague, Virulent Plague, Legion Shield, Tower Shield... Getting to warlord isn't supposed to be an easy ride, expect a challenge once in a while.


Storm can get up to 250 Critical now. With armor piercing, that Conviction doesn't block, they can kill you right through your shield.

Puppet teams are totally unfair and there are easy ways to fix it by changing the formula for the match up system.

Explorer
Aug 14, 2011
67
joujou11cool wrote:
lucara wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
You all know what this is: A level 70 gets his level 1's to join him in a 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 matches so they fight magus wizards. Well, most of you are against that, right? For all the losses that I've had against them on my magus wizards, I really don't care. People still pay money for pvp, and the people that get those 4 different accounts pay quite a lot, so it's fine. Even though you pay, you most likely won't be paying as much, and even if you did, it's your fault for not levelling up and doing pvp after, so there's no problem here, it's just out of pure hatred and anger that people complain about this. So next time you complain, you should have second thoughts.


So, because people pay their subscriptions like the rest of us, they have an excuse to exploit the PvP system? They even may pay for 4 accounts, but some of us take months to get to half the rank they are getting to (about 2000), which would probably take the same amount of money, or even more. Just because a bunch of cheaters have taken control of PvP doesn't mean that we are forced or subjected to level and not enjoy our style of play.

Truth be told, I love battling puppet teams. The 2 magus vs. 1 transcended really makes it fair...
WRONG! Everyone simply knows this. Once critical comes into play, fairness goes out the window.

It isn't out of pure hatred or anger that I am posting this. It's out of how much I want PvP to be fair.


Really? Critical is a problem to low level pvp? Try using Conviction, and you'll survive a lot longer. Use Weakness, Plague, Virulent Plague, Legion Shield, Tower Shield... Getting to warlord isn't supposed to be an easy ride, expect a challenge once in a while.


So... just pull a Conviction out of my back pocket every 4 rounds, and everything is fine and dandy, right? Not every card shows up exactly when you want it (and don't even get me started about treasure Convictions, they are just glitched up)

Pull a shield out every round, alright, oh wait...
Puppets (Novices) will break all of the shields that you use, the Puppeteer will break all of the plagues, v. plagues, and weaknesses with a wand or even Cleanse Charm.

Sure, I'll kill the noob but that Legend/Transcended can still take care of the shields

I'm already a Warlord and happily challenge those Puppet teams with my friends who are against them as well. I'm doing this for the people who are new to PvP, and also, I don't like that people are exploiting K.I.'s PvP System.

If you have a Central account, check it out and look up Knights Who Say Ni group... they'll have a lot to say about this.

Champion
Jul 30, 2010
441
If you dont like facing puppet teams try 1v1. There is no way to have an advantage there, unless you are winning so much you face higher ranked or lvl characters.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
No, Conviction would not be the only solution to things. I've (Almost beaten, but fizzled, but we still DoT tied) with a level 70 Storm wizard with the waterworks gear. All you have to do:
Use an enchanted AoE and kill the puppet(s) from there.
Use a bunch of shields (-80%'s) and Weaknesses, spam those. Be a (Treasure Noob if you will) and spam rank 8 spells. Never and I mean it by never leave yourself wide open without any defenses, or you'll lose badly. Really, it doesn't take much skill to defeat a level 70 wizard, a critical is almost nothing (With a Storm Shield and a 14 pip Tempest and a critical, 600 something damage isn't too much, especially if you block the critical it's 300 something damage, not much of a big deal.

Delver
Mar 15, 2009
203
puppet teams are a cheap way of getting point/tickets at the cost to someone else,yes we all pay for the game nomatter how many accounts we have,but we pay to have a fair chance to earn tickets/points in PvP and puppet teams has an unfair advantage in winning.

Now here some numbers 2 ten yr olds are fighting a 20yr old,who is most likely to win? most likely the 20yr old, samething can be said about 2 lev 35s fighting a level 70/lev 1 "most" likely the lev 70/lev 1 going to win(not to say that the lev 35s cant winjustnot as"likely" too).

the level matching needsworking on example:if you area between level 31-40 thenyou can only play against others between 31=40 "not" a level 41+ an not a level 30 below this should give ppl a more fair chance to get tickets/rank and stop puppet teams. and yes restrick TCs to levels

M.RedBlood Death

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Zzatdragon wrote:
puppet teams are a cheap way of getting point/tickets at the cost to someone else,yes we all pay for the game nomatter how many accounts we have,but we pay to have a fair chance to earn tickets/points in PvP and puppet teams has an unfair advantage in winning.

Now here some numbers 2 ten yr olds are fighting a 20yr old,who is most likely to win? most likely the 20yr old, samething can be said about 2 lev 35s fighting a level 70/lev 1 "most" likely the lev 70/lev 1 going to win(not to say that the lev 35s cant winjustnot as"likely" too).

the level matching needsworking on example:if you area between level 31-40 thenyou can only play against others between 31=40 "not" a level 41+ an not a level 30 below this should give ppl a more fair chance to get tickets/rank and stop puppet teams. and yes restrick TCs to levels

M.RedBlood Death


Again, the the excuses of taking treasure cards out of PvP. I'll stay out of that one because this post is about puppet teams

You're wrong on the 20 year-old vs. the 10 year olds, because that would depend on how each of them are, so it would be (I don't know another word for) biased, you could say.

Alright, with 2 level 31's-48's against a level 70 and a level 1 wizard, would be fair. The low levels have an advantage::
The level 70 will be around 0-200 in ranks, while the Magi/Masters ( Magi is plural for Magus) will have 500+ in ranks, is that not correct? Well, the ranks seem outmatched, don't they. Now look at how the Magi/Masters can fight:
Double attacks on the Transcended
Easy blade stack-ups
Easy access to bonus with TC's
Both health combines more then the other teams' health combines.

They have an advantage don't they? Yes. Will they still meet a challenge? Yes. Well, no one has ever said that ranking up was supposed to be an easy parade, so it doesn't have to be. If you want to fight wizards your level, go to practice matches or level up.

Survivor
May 31, 2011
20
THe ones actually supporting the use of puppet teams, are the ones, who utilize this CHEAT themselves. It's also called "sandbagging" and is a low, lazy way to rank. These people would probably steal from family, if given the chance, since it shows a complete lack of character BUT as usual KI doesn't give a rat's, as long as money pours in from crown sales.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Lordaria wrote:
THe ones actually supporting the use of puppet teams, are the ones, who utilize this CHEAT themselves. It's also called "sandbagging" and is a low, lazy way to rank. These people would probably steal from family, if given the chance, since it shows a complete lack of character BUT as usual KI doesn't give a rat's, as long as money pours in from crown sales.


Novice said to the Grandmaster lol. And no, I don't use the puppet glitch, but I'm sure that someone's actually getting frustrated about it lolz. I don't care whether the puppet teams are there or not, because I don't use puppet teams, I defeat them.

Delver
Mar 15, 2009
203
joujou11cool wrote:
Zzatdragon wrote:
puppet teams are a cheap way of getting point/tickets at the cost to someone else,yes we all pay for the game nomatter how many accounts we have,but we pay to have a fair chance to earn tickets/points in PvP and puppet teams has an unfair advantage in winning.

Now here some numbers 2 ten yr olds are fighting a 20yr old,who is most likely to win? most likely the 20yr old, samething can be said about 2 lev 35s fighting a level 70/lev 1 "most" likely the lev 70/lev 1 going to win(not to say that the lev 35s cant winjustnot as"likely" too).

the level matching needsworking on example:if you area between level 31-40 thenyou can only play against others between 31=40 "not" a level 41+ an not a level 30 below this should give ppl a more fair chance to get tickets/rank and stop puppet teams. and yes restrick TCs to levels

M.RedBlood Death


Again, the the excuses of taking treasure cards out of PvP. I'll stay out of that one because this post is about puppet teams

You're wrong on the 20 year-old vs. the 10 year olds, because that would depend on how each of them are, so it would be (I don't know another word for) biased, you could say.

Its not an unfair statement,its a reasonable statement that a healthy 20yr old would "most" likely win against 2 ten yr olds.

Alright, with 2 level 31's-48's against a level 70 and a level 1 wizard, would be fair. The low levels have an advantage::
The level 70 will be around 0-200 in ranks, while the Magi/Masters ( Magi is plural for Magus) will have 500+ in ranks, is that not correct? Well, the ranks seem outmatched, don't they. Now look at how the Magi/Masters can fight:
Double attacks on the Transcended
Easy blade stack-ups
Easy access to bonus with TC's
Both health combines more then the other teams' health combines.

They have an advantage don't they? Yes. Will they still meet a challenge? Yes. Well, no one has ever said that ranking up was supposed to be an easy parade, so it doesn't have to be. If you want to fight wizards your level, go to practice matches or level up.


At no time did i say that the 2 lev.35 could not win just that they were "most"likely not to win.
Now i seen some of your other posts here an i think that you are one of those PvPers who have all or most of there arena gear/pet and is just trying to keep peaple from getting the same gear and giving you a challange and a TC spamer who dont want lose the edge over the lower level PvPers.
Not thats maybe a bias opinion.

M.RedBlood Lev.70 :-)

1