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No PvP Matching Changes This Update

1
AuthorMessage
Administrator
Earlier this year, we tried out some changes to the PvP matchmaking system to try and ensure a better matchup between team of varying levels. While we recognize that this is a problem that needs to be addressed, unfortunately the changes implemented did not resolve the issues as we had hoped– and in some cases, could potentially even make the matching worse. As a result, we decided to go “back to the drawing board” and look for another solution.

We realize that this isn’t ideal, and we will continue to be diligent in our efforts to resolve this issue. We aren’t ignoring this -- but it is not an easy problem to fix.

On a positive note, a few of the changes will be coming out with the upcoming release, including new Arenas and new items that can be purchased for Arena Tickets – in addition to two new pet games, a new power level for pets, and a host of new pet talents!

As always, thank you for being a part of our community, and thank you again for your patience as we continue to improve the game.


community@wizard101.com
Survivor
Aug 15, 2008
3
Mastermind
Jul 08, 2011
305
Professor, many of our players have made some valid suggestions on here. I hope that you are really taking a good look at some of them. Go through the pvp section a couple of pages, if not more. Many great ideas have been shared and currently spend their days relaxing them. I realize maybe not all are the best, or even some of the good ideas may not be able to be used, but if you are looking for ideas, thats a great place to start i believe.

Don't worry, I understand. These things arent easy. They take time.

Defender
Mar 10, 2012
182
Survivor
Feb 16, 2010
7
How bout this! let us see what we are up against before the battle begins!

Squire
Apr 18, 2010
589
Ooh i thought it was fixed... o well, i guess i'll just have to wait till this is fixed to do team pvp on my noobs. well thanks for trying :)

Survivor
Aug 15, 2010
3
if they showed you what class you where fighting at the begging it would completely take out the stealth factor of the pvp game play. i personally love to change my clothes and pets too all kinds and colors and watch people guess what school i am. It is a tactic and should be left alone. If they stated what it was before the match it would ruin that experience of not knowing which shield to lay down or when to use a weakness. my opinion is that it should be left alone if they changed something that maybe as simple as that it would ruin the experience for me.

Defender
Dec 16, 2009
164
is it really that hard to implement level brackets? i know i put up this idea not to long ago and even gave an example

level brackets

10-19
20-29
30-39
40-49
50-59
60-69
70-79
80

and yes this would mean that you would not be able to pvp until level 10 but it's not like level 10 is that hard to reach

Survivor
Nov 06, 2009
2
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Earlier this month, we tried out some changes to the PvP matchmaking system to try and ensure a better matchup between team of varying levels. While we recognize that this is a problem that needs to be addressed, unfortunately the changes implemented did not resolve the issues as we had hoped– and in some cases, could potentially even make the matching worse. As a result, we decided to go “back to the drawing board” and look for another solution.

We realize that this isn’t ideal, and we will continue to be diligent in our efforts to resolve this issue. We aren’t ignoring this -- but it is not an easy problem to fix.

On a positive note, a few of the changes will be coming out with the upcoming release, including new Arenas and new items that can be purchased for Arena Tickets – in addition to two new pet games, a new power level for pets, and a host of new pet talents!

As always, thank you for being a part of our community, and thank you again for your patience as we continue to improve the game.

well at least everything else went through :D ty for not ignoring this also :)

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
I'd fix it as follows:
1. no team sit option, team sit unbalances the matches and everyone knows it
2. the only option players have is to choose 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 and players based upon their ratings are grouped as evenly as possible from the random players
3. the time clock to click start is only 20 to 30 seconds, no more minute and a half to two minutes that never ever starts cause someone isn't around and everyone else quits first
4. all matches are with players within 10 levels of one another. The groupings would be levels 1 to 10, 11 to 20, 21 to 30, and so forth. That is to say if you are level 21 to 30 upon pressing join a 4v4 then there will need to be 7 other such players of those levels for the match to start.
5. rank titles are based upon the table match size played.. that is to say your rank at a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 will all be different. Titles would be like 1v1 Warlord, 2v2 Warlord, 3v3 Warlord, 4v4 Warlord, Grandmaster Warlord (available if you have reached Warlord in every match sized)
6. if players can buy high point foods with arena tickets more would play PvP rather than constantly doing mirror lake runs

Survivor
Jul 06, 2010
45
toritoy wrote:
How bout this! let us see what we are up against before the battle begins!


Yea but the opponent have like 30 seconds to change their deck into an anti, which you dont need much time. xD.

Survivor
Aug 10, 2009
22
As i have stated there should be a level cap for friends to join either 5 or 10 this way an arch can only team up with a level 70 or 75 this will stop the puppets that are out of control on here. Sure i know they will down rank but i dont care if they do at least it will not be a level 80 teamed up with level 10 against 2 level 30's

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
865
Why not just block the team? (if a high level and low level team up, they will not be matched.) FOR EXAMPLE: Level 40 and 80, the 40 would need to be at least level 65+ to team up with the level 80. I think this would make it difficult to make a puppet team.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2010
20
I was doing a 2v2 and the person was a archmage and I was a magus with a adept and the archmage's pvp points were 64 plus she fled at the end, i know it is not easy but i'm just saying

Survivor
Apr 01, 2009
36
Just curious ... I saw that ideas were testing in the test realm, but backed off. Any comment or estimate on upcoming PvP changes?

Survivor
Dec 20, 2010
1
First we need define a puppet team. If we can agree on that, then we can have an enforceable rule.

Currently there are 11 range levels that wizards can attain (soon to be 12 with the introduction of the Azteca world):
Range Level - Title
1 - Novice (Levels 1-4)
2 - Apprentice (Levels 5-9)
3 - Initiate (Levels 10-14)
4 - Journeyman (Levels 15-19)
5 - Adept (Levels 20-29)
6 - Magus (Levels 30-39)
7 - Master (Levels 40-49)
8 - Grandmaster (Levels 50-59)
9 - Legendary (Level 60-69)
10 - Transcended (Level 70-79)
11 - Archmage (Level 80-89)
12 - ?? (Level 90)

I feel that a puppet team is any team that has a member that is 3 level ranges or more lower than the highest level wizard. For example: a team with a legendary wizard (level range category 9) and a magus wizard (level range category 6) would be considered a puppet team. The rule would ignore rank, bypassing the more complex ranking algorithm. It would be the first rule the PVP computer reviews before all other rules. If it detects a puppet team, then it should place that team in a puppet queue. The puppet queue is a different queue than the normal PVP queue. Once there are teams in the puppet queue, then the PVP computer can use the normal PVP algorithm to determine matches between puppet teams.

I believe that implementing a puppet queue system will prevent non-puppet teams from facing puppet teams, allowing for fairer matches. Puppets will face other puppets. What do you think KI?

Survivor
Dec 19, 2009
10
William Thunder on Oct 29, 2012 wrote:
First we need define a puppet team. If we can agree on that, then we can have an enforceable rule.

Currently there are 11 range levels that wizards can attain (soon to be 12 with the introduction of the Azteca world):
Range Level - Title
1 - Novice (Levels 1-4)
2 - Apprentice (Levels 5-9)
3 - Initiate (Levels 10-14)
4 - Journeyman (Levels 15-19)
5 - Adept (Levels 20-29)
6 - Magus (Levels 30-39)
7 - Master (Levels 40-49)
8 - Grandmaster (Levels 50-59)
9 - Legendary (Level 60-69)
10 - Transcended (Level 70-79)
11 - Archmage (Level 80-89)
12 - ?? (Level 90)

I feel that a puppet team is any team that has a member that is 3 level ranges or more lower than the highest level wizard. For example: a team with a legendary wizard (level range category 9) and a magus wizard (level range category 6) would be considered a puppet team. The rule would ignore rank, bypassing the more complex ranking algorithm. It would be the first rule the PVP computer reviews before all other rules. If it detects a puppet team, then it should place that team in a puppet queue. The puppet queue is a different queue than the normal PVP queue. Once there are teams in the puppet queue, then the PVP computer can use the normal PVP algorithm to determine matches between puppet teams.

I believe that implementing a puppet queue system will prevent non-puppet teams from facing puppet teams, allowing for fairer matches. Puppets will face other puppets. What do you think KI?
That is truly a smart idea.

Survivor
Jun 01, 2011
4
Dear KI

With level 90 coming out, please tell us what you have planned to repair the PVP system. Surely you have made some progress in the past 3 months. Surely you realize that introducing a new level cap with higher character stats and more powerful spells will pose yet another degree of misery for mid level team players.

If you are unable to implement a fix at this time, its understandable. But please suspend the ranked system until it is fixed. The rampant exploitation by puppet teams gets worse with each level cap, and your failure to make the necessary fixes emboldens the exploiters and gives them justification. I often hear from puppet teams that they have a right to play how they want, KI must approve if they allow it.

Having announced your intent to eliminate puppet teams, it would be helpful if KI would issue a stronger statement on their stance, and as I suggested, take some interim action, either suspending rank, or making puppet teaming a reportable offense. Anything that sends the message that you do not approve. And I'm not even joking when I suggest this: why don't you just make the warlord badge available for crowns in the crown shop. Surely you have heard, that that is how many players get their badge. Gifting others to act as their puppets to rank up. You might as well be the ones who capitalize on it, and it would get the exploiters out of the arena. The warlord badge has lost its meaning. Its a status symbol, and it can be easily bought already.

I no longer care about rank. I ONLY do rank now to occupy puppet teams, keep the bullies away from unsuspecting kids who come to the arena to have fun only to be ambushed and bullied. I can document this behavior for you with screenshots and video. Just let me know.

Explorer
Nov 04, 2012
68
sweetsandy on Nov 10, 2012 wrote:
Dear KI

With level 90 coming out, please tell us what you have planned to repair the PVP system. Surely you have made some progress in the past 3 months. Surely you realize that introducing a new level cap with higher character stats and more powerful spells will pose yet another degree of misery for mid level team players.

If you are unable to implement a fix at this time, its understandable. But please suspend the ranked system until it is fixed. The rampant exploitation by puppet teams gets worse with each level cap, and your failure to make the necessary fixes emboldens the exploiters and gives them justification. I often hear from puppet teams that they have a right to play how they want, KI must approve if they allow it.

Having announced your intent to eliminate puppet teams, it would be helpful if KI would issue a stronger statement on their stance, and as I suggested, take some interim action, either suspending rank, or making puppet teaming a reportable offense. Anything that sends the message that you do not approve. And I'm not even joking when I suggest this: why don't you just make the warlord badge available for crowns in the crown shop. Surely you have heard, that that is how many players get their badge. Gifting others to act as their puppets to rank up. You might as well be the ones who capitalize on it, and it would get the exploiters out of the arena. The warlord badge has lost its meaning. Its a status symbol, and it can be easily bought already.

I no longer care about rank. I ONLY do rank now to occupy puppet teams, keep the bullies away from unsuspecting kids who come to the arena to have fun only to be ambushed and bullied. I can document this behavior for you with screenshots and video. Just let me know.
Yep. Just Yep.

Survivor
Apr 01, 2009
36
I was looking at the random ranked team duel queues and matches that were under way -- Holy cow, the new puppet teams with Promethians (L90), 70+% general resist gear, and huge attack bonuses is just devastating. There's lots of L90 puppet teams around, never mind the "old" L80 puppet teams, or the "ancient" L70 puppet teams.

The overall number of games going seems to be down and the team game count seems to be way down.

It would nice if we could hear about upcoming plans to fix PvP, so that folks can have something to look forward to, rather than simply drifting away in silence.

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
865
Why not just make a 15 level difference for a team? EXAMPLE: If a level 90 and level 1 try to team up, the team gets blocked. But if a level 90 and 75+ team up, they could.

Delver
Oct 11, 2010
270
Moonlighterz1000 on Dec 14, 2012 wrote:
Why not just make a 15 level difference for a team? EXAMPLE: If a level 90 and level 1 try to team up, the team gets blocked. But if a level 90 and 75+ team up, they could.
The ranking system is good but lets keep he same levels vs the same levels. Make ranked 4v4 3v3 etc random people like 1v1 is. Then you will not have puppets. Have two versions of PVP the current one then another that does not allow using side deck treasure cards. I remember the good old days of being triple smoke screened while one player powers up to wipe out the other team asuimg they go first and the team they are playing does not have the same plan.

Survivor
Apr 01, 2009
36
Talon, over at duelist.com, has a simple and effective idea to fix this:
- Add in a warning line about each opponent that is +/- 20 levels for the confirming character.

This way, if you're on a 4v4 team and L29 adept, you can see if there's two L90's and two L1's. Choose to confirm with eyes wide open. Those looking for fair fights will decline. Those looking to "Giant Hunt" will accept.

This would not require a big mess in the match making system, since the change would be in the match confirmation pop-up.

Survivor
Feb 16, 2011
4
Moonlighterz1000 on Oct 6, 2012 wrote:
Why not just block the team? (if a high level and low level team up, they will not be matched.) FOR EXAMPLE: Level 40 and 80, the 40 would need to be at least level 65+ to team up with the level 80. I think this would make it difficult to make a puppet team.
This is a great question, that deserves a great answer, and I'm kind of surprised no one here has given one yet. You see, there are two types of puppet teams that both have to be eliminated.

The most well known is a high level and a low level player teaming together, eg. level 90 and level 1.

However, there's a second type of puppet team that the current matching system also allows. In this team, both players are around the same level, but their ranks are vastly different. This leads to getting matched against two players who are a much lower level, but have ranks close together. For example, my level 14 wizard, rank captain, often teams up with another level 14 friend who is also rank captain. One team that we got matched against a few times on different days consisted of two level 28 players, one whose rank was commander, and the other whose rank was near 0. We never did manage to win any of those matches, because both opponents really had commander level experience, and were twice our level...

You see, then, the problem that KI is up against here is to change the matching system so as to effectively eliminate both of these puppet types, not just the first. In addition, some puppet teams attempt to merge both types together, which creates another challenge for KI to deal with...

On a positive note, Professor Greyrose likes to remind us that, "With persistence, victory is assured." KI says that they are persisting in their endeavors to fix the matching system, so I have little doubt that sooner or later, an effective fix will emerge victorious from the ruins of the current matching algorithm.

Survivor
Feb 07, 2010
15
Professor Greyrose on Aug 29, 2012 wrote:
Earlier this year, we tried out some changes to the PvP matchmaking system to try and ensure a better matchup between team of varying levels. While we recognize that this is a problem that needs to be addressed, unfortunately the changes implemented did not resolve the issues as we had hoped– and in some cases, could potentially even make the matching worse. As a result, we decided to go “back to the drawing board” and look for another solution.

We realize that this isn’t ideal, and we will continue to be diligent in our efforts to resolve this issue. We aren’t ignoring this -- but it is not an easy problem to fix.

On a positive note, a few of the changes will be coming out with the upcoming release, including new Arenas and new items that can be purchased for Arena Tickets – in addition to two new pet games, a new power level for pets, and a host of new pet talents!

As always, thank you for being a part of our community, and thank you again for your patience as we continue to improve the game.
i hope u guys do something abt puppeting i:

1