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minions in pvp - maybe you'll understand this

1
AuthorMessage
Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
let's see of all you people that don't understand why minions of any kind in ranked PVP are a problem understand this:

A minion in ranked PVP, even myth's little wooden puppet which doesn't do much, gives the caster an extra turn every single round.

why?

Because they get to attack once
The minion gets to attack once

So...

For every attack YOU get, THEY get two attacks.

In the case of the weakest minion, that might not seem like much except that it is additional damage and your shields are being destroyed or someone on the other side is healing the guy you are playing

In the case of the most buffed minions, it is tantamount to allowing another player to port into battle and start attacking.

I want to hear the people who say minions are a good idea AND THAT DON'T have them, themselves, tell me that they think it's a good idea for one side to get extra moves each turn while the others don't.

When bosses do that, they are called CHEATING bosses

remember?

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2902
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
If everyone can CAST minions, then under your logic, everyone should be summoning minions, why not? Granted, that water minion REALLY needs improvement.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
I want to hear the people who say minions are a good idea AND THAT DON'T have them, themselves, tell me that they think it's a good idea for one side to get extra moves each turn while the others don't.

When bosses do that, they are called CHEATING bosses

remember?


Before I fully respond to your post, can you clarify what you mean by "I want to hear the people who say minions are a good idea AND THAT DON'T have them, themselves"? Are you referring to schools that don't have "good" pvp minions or people who don't use minions as a matter or course? As to the cheating bosses, bosses who don't follow the normal combat rules (trap you whenever you blade or shield for instance as opposed to a random "may cast" pet event) are referred to as "cheating" bosses, not ones that have a minion or two.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
gtarhannon wrote:
Are you referring to schools that don't have "good" pvp minions or people who don't use minions as a matter or course? .


I'm referring to people on this board who don't use minions themselves, either because they can't (no good minions in their school or they aren't high enough level to get one), or who don't want to.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
laurawatersong wrote:
If everyone can CAST minions, then under your logic, everyone should be summoning minions, why not? Granted, that water minion REALLY needs improvement.


my point exactly.

How about this to make things nice and fair and even:

If someone casts a minion on their side, the same minion is automatically loaded for the other side.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
colagada wrote:
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?


well, let's see. My pvp character is level 16 ice. Now you look at the schedule of when he gets minions and tell me how he could have one already? Unlike, say, myth, which gets one at level 1.

That isn't the point.

The point is that adding a minion into the game gives the guy that cast it an extra action every turn.

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves...

Get the point?

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
gtarhannon wrote:
As to the cheating bosses, bosses who don't follow the normal combat rules (trap you whenever you blade or shield for instance as opposed to a random "may cast" pet event) are referred to as "cheating" bosses, not ones that have a minion or two.


Yes, exactly.

You cast a minion.

now you get to attack, AND you get a blade set on you that round

or

You get to attack AND you get healed that round

Or

You get to attack AND you get to attack again that round

(doesn't matter that your minion is doing those second actions, the effect is, you get the extra action on your turn)

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
I want to point one more thing out:

Everyone that is arguing FOR keeping minions knows good and well just how much easier it is for them to win when they have that minion. They KNOW that it is exactly like having another player on their side. They KNOW that it turns a 1v1 into a 1v2. That's why they want to keep it.

The designers of the game know it too. That's why, when you get your minion, your teacher talks to you about having a companion to accompany you and how much easier it is with two instead of one.

There are plenty of people in ranked that don't even fight for themselves. they just cast tons of shields and a minion. Then they shield and heal the minion, and let the minion fight.

Everyone on this forum KNOWS that adding in a minion is adding in a second person. And Everyone KNOWS, whether they want to admit it or not, that it's highly unfair to do that. But if it makes it easier for THEM, then why in the world would they want it to change and be fair for the other guy?

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
I keep a minion or two in most of my wizards' decks. If it comes up at a good time, I use it. Otherwise, I don't. I am on the side of arguing for keeping minions.

crystalwizard12345... wrote:
Everyone that is arguing FOR keeping minions knows good and well just how much easier it is for them to win when they have that minion. They KNOW that it is exactly like having another player on their side. They KNOW that it turns a 1v1 into a 1v2. That's why they want to keep it.


That statement is loaded with variables. In higher level combat in particular, minions can easily be used against you. Scarecrow, for instance, is likely to do massive damage (which means a big heal for them) on your unshielded unresisting minion (killing it) while still doing damage to you. People that use minions occasionally like I do often find that the minion does what it wants which includes wasting your traps or not healing you when it should. People who use a minion strategy, on the other hand, have a deck full of shields, minions, and minion manipulation cards, and that leaves them strategically vulnerable.

crystalwizard12345... wrote:
The designers of the game know it too. That's why, when you get your minion, your teacher talks to you about having a companion to accompany you and how much easier it is with two instead of one.


It can, but it can also make things worse. For instance, its easy to end up in a situation where you are trying to set up to kill a monster but your minion keeps using all your traps (or prisms which is even worse because it means you're fighting a heavily school resistant enemy), isn't doing enough to get targetted, and you can't find a card to sacrifice him so that you can continue with the battle in peace. You also have to keep in mind that if you're casting a minion, then those are pips you didn't use to heal and a turn you didn't take to shield or weakness.

crystalwizard12345... wrote:
There are plenty of people in ranked that don't even fight for themselves. they just cast tons of shields and a minion. Then they shield and heal the minion, and let the minion fight.


Keep some monstrous AoE spells in your side deck for this kind of thing. There is really little so satisfying as them wasting 3 or more pips to cast a minion only to have you get rid of it and damage them for 4.

crystalwizard12345... wrote:
Everyone on this forum KNOWS that adding in a minion is adding in a second person. And Everyone KNOWS, whether they want to admit it or not, that it's highly unfair to do that. But if it makes it easier for THEM, then why in the world would they want it to change and be fair for the other guy?


Adding a minion is absolutely NOTHING like adding in a second person. There is no resist (except talos who is also vulnerable to storm damage), very low health, and a very predictable (to both you and your opponent) AI that does what it wants whether you want it to or not. Minions are a strategic decision that everyone can make which means that it is demonstrably NOT unfair. As demonstrated above, it doesn't necessarily make it easier for anyone and when your enemy can beguile your minion or even just dispel it before it happens, that's pure awesome. Remember kids... there is nothing absolutely nothing so sweet as putting a myth to storm prism on a talos minion, then beguiling him when he has 4 pips to turn that humungofrog against both him and his boss. :D

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Your kidding right? This is pretty ridiculous. If the your opponent cast a minion for three pips, and you destroy the minion with a 4 pips AoE. Your opponent takes damage, and loses the pips they used to summon the minion.

I am also surprised that the person complaining about this is ice, ice's minion is amazing, and should be part of any ice's strategy that is doing magus pvp. So why ruin it for yourself now?

Delver
Jul 04, 2010
294
That's entire point of minions. They do the light work so you can blade up and attack while they use up your shields. But, they really aren't that strong. I fought an ice wizard in a 1 v 1 match, and knowing the only way he'll ever do real damage is with the ice bubble and giving him extra blades, I ignored it completely and defeated her. Hydra's kept the shields in check, but since I was using judgement as my "big stick" I would only use hydra to once the tower shields started showing up. One hydra cleared all of her shields each time.

I tried using an ice minion once in a 2 v 2 match and they simply frogged him away the next round. Big waste of pips.

So unless you're also against using treasure cards or don't have a 4 pip AoE attack in your school, just stack your side deck with tc meteor, frog, sand storm, whatever and just take them out the first round.

I've never seen talos so I can't comment on him directly though.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
colagada wrote:
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?


well, let's see. My pvp character is level 16 ice. Now you look at the schedule of when he gets minions and tell me how he could have one already? Unlike, say, myth, which gets one at level 1.

That isn't the point.

The point is that adding a minion into the game gives the guy that cast it an extra action every turn.

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves...

Get the point?
no I don't get the point and here's why. You can use an AOE spell essentially attacking both your opponent and the minion in one turn. Ice has one of the best minions in the game IMO, it's up to you to go farm for gold to take advantage of it. You're not going to escape minions in low level pvp as there are many fire and myth roaming around, best thing you can do is adapt. The hardest part is balancing your side deck as I imagine you have very little room. My level 10 warlord only carries one in an eight card sidedeck, you have to focus on carrying an AOE to kill the minion quick because chances are your opponent, if not myth, doesn't carry very many. I have developed a good way to kill Talos in low level if you care to listen. Construction of your limited side deck is the answer to your minion issue.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
travisAk wrote:
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
colagada wrote:
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?


well, let's see. My pvp character is level 16 ice. Now you look at the schedule of when he gets minions and tell me how he could have one already? Unlike, say, myth, which gets one at level 1.

That isn't the point.

The point is that adding a minion into the game gives the guy that cast it an extra action every turn.

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves...

Get the point?
no I don't get the point and here's why. You can use an AOE spell essentially attacking both your opponent and the minion in one turn. Ice has one of the best minions in the game IMO, it's up to you to go farm for gold to take advantage of it. You're not going to escape minions in low level pvp as there are many fire and myth roaming around, best thing you can do is adapt. The hardest part is balancing your side deck as I imagine you have very little room. My level 10 warlord only carries one in an eight card sidedeck, you have to focus on carrying an AOE to kill the minion quick because chances are your opponent, if not myth, doesn't carry very many. I have developed a good way to kill Talos in low level if you care to listen. Construction of your limited side deck is the answer to your minion issue.


Travis, I am quite surprised at this!

I know you have a level 10 warlord... Which mean, you know it what it is like to have such a small deck... Also, you know Talos has 1000 health and one AOE attack will not kill Talos... Another thing, Talos can cast tower shield, Hex, Froggy, and Minotaur... Talos should by all means, be level restricted and you know it...

As far as other minions are concerned, some are helpful, some are not... Storms minion is no where near helpful... Now, if they were to be a bit more balanced, I could see them being deemed fair, but as they stand now, they are not balanced...

Another point is, the fact that you signed up for a specific matchup in PvP! You can't buy henchmen in PvP, can you? So Minions should not be allowed either...

I know a lot of people support minions, some even take the minion spells myth is given and use them as an excuse to use them, stating it takes up most of myths deck... Does that mean that myth will have less spells than other schools if minions were not allowed? No, it wont... Myth gets almost the same amount of spells as other schools, they just get the minion spells as bonus spells... I think maybe 2 school spells is the entire difference, yet, myth is a school that can easily go through shields, unlike any other school... So, would myth be handicapped? I think not!

But then again, those that need a minion to win, will obviously argue this point to death... Why? Because they lack the skill to win on their own...

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
darthjt wrote:
travisAk wrote:
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
colagada wrote:
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?


well, let's see. My pvp character is level 16 ice. Now you look at the schedule of when he gets minions and tell me how he could have one already? Unlike, say, myth, which gets one at level 1.

That isn't the point.

The point is that adding a minion into the game gives the guy that cast it an extra action every turn.

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves...

Get the point?
no I don't get the point and here's why. You can use an AOE spell essentially attacking both your opponent and the minion in one turn. Ice has one of the best minions in the game IMO, it's up to you to go farm for gold to take advantage of it. You're not going to escape minions in low level pvp as there are many fire and myth roaming around, best thing you can do is adapt. The hardest part is balancing your side deck as I imagine you have very little room. My level 10 warlord only carries one in an eight card sidedeck, you have to focus on carrying an AOE to kill the minion quick because chances are your opponent, if not myth, doesn't carry very many. I have developed a good way to kill Talos in low level if you care to listen. Construction of your limited side deck is the answer to your minion issue.


Travis, I am quite surprised at this!

I know you have a level 10 warlord... Which mean, you know it what it is like to have such a small deck... Also, you know Talos has 1000 health and one AOE attack will not kill Talos... Another thing, Talos can cast tower shield, Hex, Froggy, and Minotaur... Talos should by all means, be level restricted and you know it...

As far as other minions are concerned, some are helpful, some are not... Storms minion is no where near helpful... Now, if they were to be a bit more balanced, I could see them being deemed fair, but as they stand now, they are not balanced...

Another point is, the fact that you signed up for a specific matchup in PvP! You can't buy henchmen in PvP, can you? So Minions should not be allowed either...

I know a lot of people support minions, some even take the minion spells myth is given and use them as an excuse to use them, stating it takes up most of myths deck... Does that mean that myth will have less spells than other schools if minions were not allowed? No, it wont... Myth gets almost the same amount of spells as other schools, they just get the minion spells as bonus spells... I think maybe 2 school spells is the entire difference, yet, myth is a school that can easily go through shields, unlike any other school... So, would myth be handicapped? I think not!

But then again, those that need a minion to win, will obviously argue this point to death... Why? Because they lack the skill to win on their own...


Talos costs 5 Pips. If people are using them and they aren't myth than they have to wait for 5 turns to get pips, if they are really low level I don't see what the player fighting said minion user is doing that makes them so helpless when they are finally able to summon the talos. And so what if myth's use minions, that is their thing lol. One of myth's strong points has always been the minions myth has. Now if you were lower or midlevel and a myth was using a talos treasure card, and even there you have some slow down to the talos because they don't have great power pip chance and even if they do it still 3 turns to use the spell.. If you are a well prepared player and have this what your calling "skill" to win without a minion then you should have the "skill" to beat someone with a minion because they are obviously so inferior to you for using minion. So what is the problem?

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
darthjt wrote:


Travis, I am quite surprised at this!
well considering you were the one that changed my perspective about Talos, I too have been quite surprised with your position on this issue.

darthjt wrote:
I know you have a level 10 warlord... Which mean, you know it what it is like to have such a small deck... Also, you know Talos has 1000 health and one AOE attack will not kill Talos... Another thing, Talos can cast tower shield, Hex, Froggy, and Minotaur... Talos should by all means, be level restricted and you know it...
although I can agree that Talos is an issue in low level pvp, it is a strategy with a big hole in it and can be countered. Every card in your side deck must have a clear and definitive purpose. 1000 health is a big hill to climb for a player just starting out but with the right set up it can be done. Equip a fire amulet, a seven pip treasure dragon will kill Talos and rip up your opponent in the process. Five pips on a minion is a pretty big risk to take and gives you more than enough time to set up your strategy. I go into every battle vs a low with the assumption of them using Talos and save pips for the kill. However.. At lower levels with less experience I can see this minion creating an inbalance and have no issue with a cap. Just want to add I have Never used Talos in any of my matches (494-48 record) I have seen it used alot but have killed three to win a fight once at level 10 so it's counterable, mind you I have all my gear and perfect pet. Now before you tell me not everyone can get amulets remember that low level ranked pvp is a volatile place to be, you must come completely prepared or you will most likely lose.

darthjt wrote:
As far as other minions are concerned, some are helpful, some are not... Storms minion is no where near helpful... Now, if they were to be a bit more balanced, I could see them being deemed fair, but as they stand now, they are not balanced...
Storm minion can actually draw the other schools minions attacks away from you and was never designed to give out big damage. You can buy treasure minions of any school and put them in your side deck so how exactly is that infair when every school has access to every minion in the game? Some would prefer not to fight using minions but every school was designed to have and use one so in no way, shape or form is it unfair. They force the schools to strategize around them and taking them out of pvp would not only put schools like myth at a disadvantage but also dumb down pvp.

darthjt wrote:
Another point is, the fact that you signed up for a specific matchup in PvP! You can't buy henchmen in PvP, can you? So Minions should not be allowed either...
henchmen are a crown only item, they have high health and better spells. Minions are low health and are a school spell gained under the development of your character... Not your best comparison.

darthjt wrote:
I know a lot of people support minions, some even take the minion spells myth is given and use them as an excuse to use them, stating it takes up most of myths deck... Does that mean that myth will have less spells than other schools if minions were not allowed? No, it wont... Myth gets almost the same amount of spells as other schools, they just get the minion spells as bonus spells... I think maybe 2 school spells is the entire difference, yet, myth is a school that can easily go through shields, unlike any other school... So, would myth be handicapped? I think not!
myth was designed to use and support minions, their low health and lack of DoT's and relatively weak attacks are a testament to that. It's basically like taking damage away from storm is you think about it.

darthjt wrote:
But then again, those that need a minion to win, will obviously argue this point to death... Why? Because they lack the skill to win on their own...
when you don't use every spell to your advantage you lack the components to win. Some people don't need a strong pet to win, does that mean the people that use them lack the skill to win? No it just means they are beter prepared for the match... C'mon Darth... Minions are unfair?... Really?

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
travisAk wrote:
darthjt wrote:


Travis, I am quite surprised at this!
well considering you were the one that changed my perspective about Talos, I too have been quite surprised with your position on this issue.

darthjt wrote:
I know you have a level 10 warlord... Which mean, you know it what it is like to have such a small deck... Also, you know Talos has 1000 health and one AOE attack will not kill Talos... Another thing, Talos can cast tower shield, Hex, Froggy, and Minotaur... Talos should by all means, be level restricted and you know it...
although I can agree that Talos is an issue in low level pvp, it is a strategy with a big hole in it and can be countered. Every card in your side deck must have a clear and definitive purpose. 1000 health is a big hill to climb for a player just starting out but with the right set up it can be done. Equip a fire amulet, a seven pip treasure dragon will kill Talos and rip up your opponent in the process. Five pips on a minion is a pretty big risk to take and gives you more than enough time to set up your strategy. I go into every battle vs a low with the assumption of them using Talos and save pips for the kill. However.. At lower levels with less experience I can see this minion creating an inbalance and have no issue with a cap. Just want to add I have Never used Talos in any of my matches (494-48 record) I have seen it used alot but have killed three to win a fight once at level 10 so it's counterable, mind you I have all my gear and perfect pet. Now before you tell me not everyone can get amulets remember that low level ranked pvp is a volatile place to be, you must come completely prepared or you will most likely lose.

darthjt wrote:
As far as other minions are concerned, some are helpful, some are not... Storms minion is no where near helpful... Now, if they were to be a bit more balanced, I could see them being deemed fair, but as they stand now, they are not balanced...
Storm minion can actually draw the other schools minions attacks away from you and was never designed to give out big damage. You can buy treasure minions of any school and put them in your side deck so how exactly is that infair when every school has access to every minion in the game? Some would prefer not to fight using minions but every school was designed to have and use one so in no way, shape or form is it unfair. They force the schools to strategize around them and taking them out of pvp would not only put schools like myth at a disadvantage but also dumb down pvp.

darthjt wrote:
Another point is, the fact that you signed up for a specific matchup in PvP! You can't buy henchmen in PvP, can you? So Minions should not be allowed either...
henchmen are a crown only item, they have high health and better spells. Minions are low health and are a school spell gained under the development of your character... Not your best comparison.

darthjt wrote:
I know a lot of people support minions, some even take the minion spells myth is given and use them as an excuse to use them, stating it takes up most of myths deck... Does that mean that myth will have less spells than other schools if minions were not allowed? No, it wont... Myth gets almost the same amount of spells as other schools, they just get the minion spells as bonus spells... I think maybe 2 school spells is the entire difference, yet, myth is a school that can easily go through shields, unlike any other school... So, would myth be handicapped? I think not!
myth was designed to use and support minions, their low health and lack of DoT's and relatively weak attacks are a testament to that. It's basically like taking damage away from storm is you think about it.

darthjt wrote:
But then again, those that need a minion to win, will obviously argue this point to death... Why? Because they lack the skill to win on their own...
when you don't use every spell to your advantage you lack the components to win. Some people don't need a strong pet to win, does that mean the people that use them lack the skill to win? No it just means they are beter prepared for the match... C'mon Darth... Minions are unfair?... Really?


So, you say henchmen and minions are not a good comparison? Talos is a lot like a henchman, much higher health and much better spells... Yes, I know Talos can be countered, I also know that myth amulets make casting Talos a lot easier and does not take 5 rounds, same as a fire amulet to possibly kill talos...

So, let me ask this then, since people want to disagree about some things and not others... If we are going to allow some things, such as talos, why are we not going to allow others, such as polymorphs, gargantuan, henchmen, and other things? I mean, if we are going to have a no holds barred arena, then make it no holds barred!

Now, if we are going to establish locks and level caps on spells and treasure cards that are considered OverPowered, then they should be established on any spells and treasure cards for the level that spell is meant for!

We can't keep wanting only what benefits us, we have to look at the picture as a whole... Now, if we make spells with caps, that means you can't be a level 10 casting a level 48 spell, so, not sure how you would ever survive against a Legend... Yet, people complain about treasure cards all the time and call others, treasure noob, because treasure cards were used... Yet, the system puts these low levels against legends...

At the same token, being a low level, and that you have all your gear and pet Travis, as you have stated, not everyone does, so they end up facing a Legend, who has 100% power pip chance, that can easily call Talos after Talos against you... How many Dragons do you have in your side deck at level 10? How many AOE do you have? At level 10, how many attacks do you have?

Now, this makes me also think, that maybe a PvP deck should be offered for arena tickets... That would be a great idea...

Also, since conviction is stun block/critical block, why not make the ring, athame, and amulet do the same... May not be a lot of critical block, but some is better than none!

One final thing, you said myth does not have DOT? Minotaur and Orthrus are considered DOT, just on the same round... They bypass shields better than any other school... Myth is not considered low damage, only earthquake is... Just because you would take minions out of PvP, does not mean, in any way, shape, or form, that myth would be handicapped or disabled in pvp!


Explorer
Jan 07, 2010
89
laurawatersong wrote:
If everyone can CAST minions, then under your logic, everyone should be summoning minions, why not? Granted, that water minion REALLY needs improvement.


Are you talking about the storm minion? LOL, I love that minion he heals me all the time.

Explorer
Jan 07, 2010
89
darthjt wrote:
travisAk wrote:
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
colagada wrote:
Did the game forget to award you a spell so you can call your own minion?


well, let's see. My pvp character is level 16 ice. Now you look at the schedule of when he gets minions and tell me how he could have one already? Unlike, say, myth, which gets one at level 1.

That isn't the point.

The point is that adding a minion into the game gives the guy that cast it an extra action every turn.

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves for him

One move for you
Two moves...

Get the point?
no I don't get the point and here's why. You can use an AOE spell essentially attacking both your opponent and the minion in one turn. Ice has one of the best minions in the game IMO, it's up to you to go farm for gold to take advantage of it. You're not going to escape minions in low level pvp as there are many fire and myth roaming around, best thing you can do is adapt. The hardest part is balancing your side deck as I imagine you have very little room. My level 10 warlord only carries one in an eight card sidedeck, you have to focus on carrying an AOE to kill the minion quick because chances are your opponent, if not myth, doesn't carry very many. I have developed a good way to kill Talos in low level if you care to listen. Construction of your limited side deck is the answer to your minion issue.


Travis, I am quite surprised at this!

I know you have a level 10 warlord... Which mean, you know it what it is like to have such a small deck... Also, you know Talos has 1000 health and one AOE attack will not kill Talos... Another thing, Talos can cast tower shield, Hex, Froggy, and Minotaur... Talos should by all means, be level restricted and you know it...

As far as other minions are concerned, some are helpful, some are not... Storms minion is no where near helpful... Now, if they were to be a bit more balanced, I could see them being deemed fair, but as they stand now, they are not balanced...

Another point is, the fact that you signed up for a specific matchup in PvP! You can't buy henchmen in PvP, can you? So Minions should not be allowed either...

I know a lot of people support minions, some even take the minion spells myth is given and use them as an excuse to use them, stating it takes up most of myths deck... Does that mean that myth will have less spells than other schools if minions were not allowed? No, it wont... Myth gets almost the same amount of spells as other schools, they just get the minion spells as bonus spells... I think maybe 2 school spells is the entire difference, yet, myth is a school that can easily go through shields, unlike any other school... So, would myth be handicapped? I think not!

But then again, those that need a minion to win, will obviously argue this point to death... Why? Because they lack the skill to win on their own...


Darthj, sry but I dont think minions should be banned from pvp, it is another element that adds dimension to the game. If you think it is fair to take out myths "bonus spells" , then how about all the other schools giving up their "bonus spells", what ever they may be. Minions are part of the game, just like treasures and if you use them fine, I will bring mine out, if you dont fine, I will keep mine in the deck.

As far as Talos, yes that one should be level capped liked the polymorphs.


Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
DarthJT,

I can agree that Talos is too powerful for low level play. On your suggestion that all minions be removed from pvp i have to digress.

To anyone having problems formulating a strategy to beat a simple school minion in pvp -->pvp requires much thought and planning, if you can't take down a minion maybe pvp isn't your thing. Some would rather remove their problems rather than taking the time and finding a way to deal with them.


Defender
Apr 24, 2011
172
I agree with you, minions can be a problem because when you are trying to make a big attack all of sudden the person summons a minion and it messys up your attack because you have to get rid of the minion as fast as you can

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
travisAk wrote:

To anyone having problems formulating a strategy to beat a simple school minion in pvp


let's try this again.

It has nothing to do with beating the minion. It has to do with the fact that the minion adds an additional person to the other side. And even if you can take the minion out in one turn, you still shouldn't have to spend that turn on an attack on the minion.

A minion in the game gives the side that cast it an extra person no matter how weak or strong it is.

And that gives them extra moves EVERY TURN.

If minions are going to be allowed, then let's keep it fair and every time someone casts a minion on their side, let's load a minion of the opposite school on the other side. AT the same rank and health as the one that was cast.


Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
let's try this again.

It has nothing to do with beating the minion. It has to do with the fact that the minion adds an additional person to the other side. And even if you can take the minion out in one turn, you still shouldn't have to spend that turn on an attack on the minion.

A minion in the game gives the side that cast it an extra person no matter how weak or strong it is.

And that gives them extra moves EVERY TURN.

If minions are going to be allowed, then let's keep it fair and every time someone casts a minion on their side, let's load a minion of the opposite school on the other side. AT the same rank and health as the one that was cast.


But that isn't fair at all. The person casting the minion used pips for it. How is it fair to have a minion on both sides when only one side loses pips?

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
travisAk wrote:

To anyone having problems formulating a strategy to beat a simple school minion in pvp


let's try this again.

It has nothing to do with beating the minion. It has to do with the fact that the minion adds an additional person to the other side. And even if you can take the minion out in one turn, you still shouldn't have to spend that turn on an attack on the minion.

A minion in the game gives the side that cast it an extra person no matter how weak or strong it is.

And that gives them extra moves EVERY TURN.

If minions are going to be allowed, then let's keep it fair and every time someone casts a minion on their side, let's load a minion of the opposite school on the other side. AT the same rank and health as the one that was cast.



Yet the caster wastes a turn to summon the minion? And that isn't fair if they take the pips and the other player just recieves a minion. Like Travis said it is easy to handle. Everyone has the ability to cast a minion, don't pick on the myth school just because it is their school's expertise. Besides it isn't like another player, a minion usually has much lower health and doesn't have the same smarts a player can have.

Survivor
Mar 24, 2011
2
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
travisAk wrote:

To anyone having problems formulating a strategy to beat a simple school minion in pvp


let's try this again.

It has nothing to do with beating the minion. It has to do with the fact that the minion adds an additional person to the other side. And even if you can take the minion out in one turn, you still shouldn't have to spend that turn on an attack on the minion.

A minion in the game gives the side that cast it an extra person no matter how weak or strong it is.

And that gives them extra moves EVERY TURN.

If minions are going to be allowed, then let's keep it fair and every time someone casts a minion on their side, let's load a minion of the opposite school on the other side. AT the same rank and health as the one that was cast.



Ah lets try this again, Minions, whether you like them or not, are part of the game and should stay in the game, IMO. Even if they add an extra person as you say, it is still part of the strategy and game and should be kept in the pvp arena. Is it frustrating, yes at times, is it fair, yes I believe so, can it be countered, yes. Now the only thing about minions that I feel is not fair is talos, which is the strongest minion out there and probably should have a level cap on it. As far as the school minons, they were designed to be an additional means to help your player. Yes I understand your viewpoint, but I simply dont agree that it is just a matter of having "an additional player" on someones side. Minions especially in ranked add more challenge and more strategy to the game. I place minions in the same category as treasure cards and your side deck. It is a strategy. I just simply dont agree with your arguement, as even treasure can be considered unfair. Is it fair for a level 5 to hit another level 5 with a Kraken?

Everyone has issues with pvp that they feel are not fair, but I dont agree with you on the minions and do not want KI to remove the useage of them in pvp. Yes, some changes are needed in the system, but those are on another post. We can remove everythingl; minions, treasures, and side decks usage but then I think pvp would turn into a version of tic-tac-toe, with no real challenge, because everyone has the same basic cards, same levels, same gear, etc...... just whoever places their X in the 2 right spots first wins the game. Seems like there would be no surprises, no real challenge. I like it when someone brings out a Talos, it means they have used 5 pips! and if I have saved my pips it mean I can now clobber them in 2 rounds with high hitting treasures, because during this time I have loaded them up with infections, saved my pips, and they have no pips and no way to heal effectively.

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