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Loremaster Spell is too strong.

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 27, 2014
2
I'm just going to be straightforward here; Loremaster is way too strong. For only 4 pips, you get high base damage, and 2 debuffs. It's just ridiculous.

I don't want to end up writing a whole rant (and believe me I could, this spell is the reason I quit PvP awhile back), so I'll just give my suggestion. Make Loremaster 5 pips instead of 4. This spell is just too strong to only be 4 pips. Think about it; if someone has 4 power pips, they can currently use Loremaster 3 times in a row. That's 1845-2095 base damage (enchanted), and 6 defuffs in total. 6 defuffs in 3 turns, AND decent damage. As it is right now, Loremaster is just too easy to spam.

Go and find some high-rated Grandmaster PvP players. A LOT of them run Balance Mastery Amulets. Know why? Loremaster is so strong, even other schools can't resist it. I observed a match yesterday in which a Grandmaster Ice using balance mastery was against a Level 60 Death, or something like that. The Ice wizard must have used Loremaster AT LEAST 8 times that match. His opponent never even stood a chance; he couldn't retaliate because he had weaknesses all over him, and he would end up fizzling occasionally due to the accuracy debuff.

PvP simply revolves around Loremaster right now, it's just overpowered.

TL;DR - Loremaster should be 5 pips instead of 4 so it can not be spammed as hard.

Survivor
Oct 23, 2011
13
I disagree. I am not being biased, if any spell needs to be nerfed then its burning rampage but even burning rampage does not need to be nerfed since you can prevent it by fire dispel or triage it off completely.

BTW brimstone is almost as good as loremaster, it has more stable damage (unlike loremaster 390 lower hit) and it adds a trap which could in some situations be better than just 2 small debuffs

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
skyscream101 on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
I disagree. I am not being biased, if any spell needs to be nerfed then its burning rampage but even burning rampage does not need to be nerfed since you can prevent it by fire dispel or triage it off completely.

BTW brimstone is almost as good as loremaster, it has more stable damage (unlike loremaster 390 lower hit) and it adds a trap which could in some situations be better than just 2 small debuffs
because your fire wizard all fire school (Mostly are overtime damage spell) means: your school meant by: damaging your foe & foe & again

: damage foes & again
: strong but weak at attack (low damage) good spell (ice strong there heavy power make hardcore attack)
: storm strong damage (low defense) hit high but defense not strong enough as ice unless make storm a defense school (least able get immunity storm/fire)
: ok school (damage fine) medium damage but enough to defeat (damage to low on spell) myth less aoe clued life
: ok school (damage fine) medium damage but enough aoe but worst part (defeat them no so, easy) limit there duel: hard (because use guardian spirit allot) enough protection

: ok school (best resist pet for jade juju) 4 time immunity with jade gear to least 4 school) which is Awesome (best teammate go with jade juju

(pick: ice) because

craft allot (use immunity) there chance: ice use different immunity to others school then just storm and fire when not facing storm & fire (ice favorite immunity not facing fire or storm is: death or balance under how many school in duel

: balance ok school (glad overpower) least they strong enough power defeat storm (storm is getting annoying pvp) loremaster was too strong (would be fine) reason why chance older crafting spell (make them loremaster too as well) didn't would make loremaster cost 6 pips but didn't because want chance older crafting spell (for spell that didn't have effect) so, finally (now ice have there first black mantle spell effect which on there formori spell)
------------------------
made own school as real school in ravenwood (I would pick: ) because they also have prims for: convert into (more rank boss are school: ) only school get boost of on rank boss or etc rank (so, see more boost (leave ice for that school was shadow magic real school ravenwood) train all there spell for there master badge be call: Master of Hematite or Master Of Shadow, nickname school Hematite

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
415
I think the mantle debuff is kind of high compared to the weakness. Should be like -20/-25 accuracy if it's gonna be 4 pips.

Defender
Oct 10, 2010
103
spitefuhl on Aug 20, 2015 wrote:
I'm just going to be straightforward here; Loremaster is way too strong. For only 4 pips, you get high base damage, and 2 debuffs. It's just ridiculous.

I don't want to end up writing a whole rant (and believe me I could, this spell is the reason I quit PvP awhile back), so I'll just give my suggestion. Make Loremaster 5 pips instead of 4. This spell is just too strong to only be 4 pips. Think about it; if someone has 4 power pips, they can currently use Loremaster 3 times in a row. That's 1845-2095 base damage (enchanted), and 6 defuffs in total. 6 defuffs in 3 turns, AND decent damage. As it is right now, Loremaster is just too easy to spam.

Go and find some high-rated Grandmaster PvP players. A LOT of them run Balance Mastery Amulets. Know why? Loremaster is so strong, even other schools can't resist it. I observed a match yesterday in which a Grandmaster Ice using balance mastery was against a Level 60 Death, or something like that. The Ice wizard must have used Loremaster AT LEAST 8 times that match. His opponent never even stood a chance; he couldn't retaliate because he had weaknesses all over him, and he would end up fizzling occasionally due to the accuracy debuff.

PvP simply revolves around Loremaster right now, it's just overpowered.

TL;DR - Loremaster should be 5 pips instead of 4 so it can not be spammed as hard.
spitefuhl,

This topic has been discussed in detail many times, and indeed LoreMaster is overpowered.
The fact is, as many have discussed, many of the other spells are overpowered also.
Thus, if they downgrade LoreMaster, a host of other spells will have to be downgraded also.
I have to agree with one poster, LoreMaster, once you hit Level 100 is no longer overpowered at all.
The spell is annoying at lower levels, but then so are many others now that they have been changed.

So, does it need a change, I would have to say no, it does not.
I have learned to deal with it, as everyone else has. It should be noted, that
since the Jewel release, loremaster has become less effective. The accuracy Jewels
didn't help Loremater at all.

Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
skyscream101 on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
I disagree. I am not being biased, if any spell needs to be nerfed then its burning rampage but even burning rampage does not need to be nerfed since you can prevent it by fire dispel or triage it off completely.

BTW brimstone is almost as good as loremaster, it has more stable damage (unlike loremaster 390 lower hit) and it adds a trap which could in some situations be better than just 2 small debuffs
You sound like a exalt balance tired of losing vs. fires.

2 small debuffs? The 2 debuffs of loremaster aren't small AT ALL lol.

Loremaster is way better than brimstone. It's damage is around 110 per pip and it puts a weakness and a mantle. Brimstone does almost same damage and puts one tiny fire trap. You just can't say brimstone is better.

Survivor
Oct 23, 2011
13
Alex watersinger on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
You sound like a exalt balance tired of losing vs. fires.

2 small debuffs? The 2 debuffs of loremaster aren't small AT ALL lol.

Loremaster is way better than brimstone. It's damage is around 110 per pip and it puts a weakness and a mantle. Brimstone does almost same damage and puts one tiny fire trap. You just can't say brimstone is better.
'You sound like an exalt fire tired of losing vs. fires'

Thanks for the assumption and I am an exalted fire. Even though i am fire i still think that burning rampage is op considering you are going second.

Survivor
May 25, 2009
12
I completely agree with you. For anyone who doesn't believe this just compare skeletal pirate with Loremaster. Loremaster does 370-470 with 2 debuffs for 4 pips. Skeletal pirate does 430-510 with nothing else. Loremaster can still be stronger with 2 debuffs and less pips which makes it way easier to spam. I know skeletal pirate is just way too week but loremaster seems only fair if it didn't have its debuffs or if it had a hundred less damage.

Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
skyscream101 on Aug 26, 2015 wrote:
'You sound like an exalt fire tired of losing vs. fires'

Thanks for the assumption and I am an exalted fire. Even though i am fire i still think that burning rampage is op considering you are going second.
What's the point of modifying a quote?
And I said you SOUNDED like one, I never called you a balance.

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
144
the reason your taking so much damage is because your opponent has a ton of damage and piercing or crit its in no way shape or form the actual base spell damage

Survivor
Jun 15, 2015
20
I've never had a problem with a balance spamming it, all it means is that they're gonna lose being that obvious with what spells they're gonna use. However I wouldn't mind the pip increase. I'd have to say balance is one of my least favorite schools, maybe is the least, due to it being mainly for PvP. All the attacks they get are mostly horrible, like Gaze of Fate, who's gonna use that in PvE? It's too hard to blade and trap for, I'd rather just stick with Chimera. I feel like they get ripped off when it comes to PvE, like Sabbertooth, the spell I think is the worse balance spell ever. Would I rather use Sabbertooth for the spirit shield and deal less damage than judgement, or should I use judgement and get my pips worth and maybe use the spirit shield in my deck for zero pips instead of spending 1 PP on a spirit shield. I say Balance deserve the couple OP spells they get for all the trouble they go through with all their spells having to buffed and even then not being worth very much.

Survivor
Jun 15, 2015
20
Alex watersinger on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
You sound like a exalt balance tired of losing vs. fires.

2 small debuffs? The 2 debuffs of loremaster aren't small AT ALL lol.

Loremaster is way better than brimstone. It's damage is around 110 per pip and it puts a weakness and a mantle. Brimstone does almost same damage and puts one tiny fire trap. You just can't say brimstone is better.
You've got that backwards. Loremaster puts a tiny (weaker) version of weakness and mantle on the enemy while Brimstone puts a NORMAL (not tiny, normal) version of the fire trap on the enemy. I'd still say Loremaster is the better spell out of the two, but I just needed to correct you there.

Survivor
Jun 15, 2015
20
Alex watersinger on Sep 12, 2015 wrote:
What's the point of modifying a quote?
And I said you SOUNDED like one, I never called you a balance.
You implied s/he were Balance. I find it rude when people imply things they do not know.

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
10
it seems your just a baby who can't handle it those 2 debufs aren't even that strong its not like a full weakness and a full black mantle so calm yourself

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
10
Survivor
Nov 30, 2011
17
For all of you out there who don't think loremaster is op, I can tell you're partly, if not almost completely wrong. What spell does almost every good balance pvp player grandmaster and up have? Loremaster. What spell WHEN IT CAME OUT was more farmed for? Loremaster. Look at every guide ever on a good balance pvp player, and check the spells they mainly focus on, and how many of those they have in their deck. What's it going to be? Loremaster. Even though the mantle and weakness are lowered version of the normal debuffs, you need to consider how many pips we're going at. Think of another legit spell with 2 good debuffs and gives the damage at the pips it requires. Like lets wake up please. First of all, all of these disagreements haven't even taken the debuffs in ACTUAL consideration when in a match. They've just talked about them without thought in-game. Mantle, although a small debuff, will STILL make your chance of using whatever spell you were going to use lower. Now weakness. If you get lore spammed, you're bound to be using whatever hit you want to use with a weakness on it. And before you can even begin to hit, you have to heal, which is just gonna take your pips back right down. Unless you are life, the satyr or equivalent heal you were going to use costs 4 pips, and probably heal up one loremaster. How many pips does loremaster cost? 4. And even if you power through that mantle, you've got an extra weakness on you. These are reasons why loremaster needs to be nerfed.

Survivor
May 30, 2014
3
Loremaster is not the only spamming spell you can use.

That you get from loremaster.

I think you forgot about Deer Knight spell that spell is easy to spam also.

Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
ChrisIceChrisFire on Sep 22, 2015 wrote:
You implied s/he were Balance. I find it rude when people imply things they do not know.
Sorry if I sounded rude. I never implied he/she is balance, I just said he sounded like one because I've often heard balances that are losing to fires say those kind of arguments. Btw, you sound like a balance tired of losing vs fires too, you just sound like one.

Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
Can someone explain me why 90% of the high ranked balances I see spam the loremaster spell if its not overpowered and doesn't need to be nerfed? (High ranked is not 900 rank)

Defender
Jun 12, 2009
141
Balance needs lore master it only does around 1k and the mantle barely makes you fizzle, the only time you fizzle is in an off-school spell like an aura or a tower shield if you aren't ice. Compared to other school's craft able spells it does less damage and unless a balance uses a Tc lore master and another regular lore master it doesn't really help them and they won't shield with a 20% weakness on you because they don't want you to be able to wand everything else off at once. At low levels the weakness can easily be negated by a 25% bubble because balance doesn't have a useful bubble until they get to exalted when they can use gaze of fate of their pierce and critical bubble and when they are at exalted it doesn't matter anyways cause more master isn't even a problem

Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
Ethan LegendBlade on Oct 8, 2015 wrote:
Balance needs lore master it only does around 1k and the mantle barely makes you fizzle, the only time you fizzle is in an off-school spell like an aura or a tower shield if you aren't ice. Compared to other school's craft able spells it does less damage and unless a balance uses a Tc lore master and another regular lore master it doesn't really help them and they won't shield with a 20% weakness on you because they don't want you to be able to wand everything else off at once. At low levels the weakness can easily be negated by a 25% bubble because balance doesn't have a useful bubble until they get to exalted when they can use gaze of fate of their pierce and critical bubble and when they are at exalted it doesn't matter anyways cause more master isn't even a problem
Uh I don't think everyone has 30+ accuracy at magus, legendary and grandmaster. This spell isn't weak at all compared to other lore spells.

PS:Just so you know, if you use different enchants on your loremasters it gives different weaknesses and mantles.

Survivor
May 25, 2009
12
Just compare loremaster to skeletal pirate. Loremaster is op.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
168
balance is way to powerful
they have dispels to all the schools
they have shields to all the schools
they a way to control pips
they have a way to destroy auras doing about 800 damage for 2 pips
they have only a few less resistance then ice wizards
they have ways of making you fizzle your spells
they have weaknesses
they have a heal that is just as good as a life heal ( death's heal triggers blades and damage storms heal does not work all the time and fires heal does not do allot)
only one shield can defend againced them tower shield and it is not that strong
gaze of fate puts up a bubble and is a double hit
they have lore master

Survivor
Jan 11, 2009
2
I am a balance. I spam loremaster quite a bit. I also have am exalted fire... With rampage. Loremaster is currently (arguably) the best spell in the game, as is rampage. I think that they cancel each other out. There is an awesome spell for every school, and there is a counter to that spell for every school. It's simple, you just need to learn to counter spammers. Everyone has a weakness, balance weaknesses are just a little harder to get rid of (pun intended). Accuracy jewels are amazing against loremaster, triage is amazing against rampage. EVerything has a counter.

Defender
Mar 19, 2011
125
Hi I am a level 102 Balance wizard.

I think Loremaster could be OP at lower levels. But once you get to exalted level most everyone has high Critical and pierce. Storm has Lightning bugs, Life has Caterpillar, Fire has FFA, Death has Lulu, all really hard hitting spells.

Perhaps the best 1v1 spell that Balance has is Gaze of Fate. It works best the second time it is cast. Balance doesn't have any obvious one hit kill options, except maybe Gaze or Mana Burn against glass cannon wizards. In high level 1v1 a Balance doesn't have time to save a lot of pips for Judge like we used to have.

Balance is a "tricky" school like Death, and to some extent Ice. We need to plan our duels several steps ahead or we are dead.

Balance, might be the most "unfair" of schools, followed by Death. Balance relies more on manipulating the game play than on sheer hitting power.