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Latest Jade/Shadow Spell Fiasco

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Mar 29, 2010
75
Just wanted to congratulate KI on messing up pvp even more. Now the latest rage by trolls is to gear up in jade, trap the opponent a ton, spam heal, and let shadow spells kill their opponents. Takes forever, and there's no real way to combat this, at least not in a reasonable amount of time, and zero chance if you're stuck going second against them. So, good work KI, for giving us one more reason to wonder if it's really worth investing time and money in your product.

Solution 1: fire the guy who came up with jade gear, and fire the guy who refuses to at least make jade gear non-wearable in pvp. We know you have the programming capability to do this.

Solution 2: allow timers for normal pvp, not just tournaments. That way if players get caught in these awful, frustrating situations it's temporary.

Solution 3: don't penalize players fleeing matches.

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
*contracts Halston to build an automatic knicker-untwisted*
1. Because firing people will solve everything. You could, you know, prepare. Accuracy enchant TC will get around 10-15% pierce, TC Infalliable will give you 20, your school spear will give you another 10, not counting any gear boosts. That's at least 40% pierce. Now bring infections and life dispels, and you're all set.
2. This is actually a decent idea, but what about matches that legitimately go on for a while? It's interesting to see two highly skilled players duke it out and block their opponent's moves, so how would you implement this to stop the "boring" PvP matches while safeguarding the "interesting" ones?
3. Would result in total ruination of PvP. I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through. Basically, I can go into a match, see that the opponent has a bunch of blades and my health is going down, realize I am losing and flee with no consequence, and either deprive the opponent of rank. If you still give them a "win", this will cause rank inflation, because someone will win but no one will lose. Worst idea ever.

Mastermind
Dec 17, 2010
357
You PvPers just can't settle for the best KI can do, can you? Let me remind you that PvP is not the only thing you can do in the game!!!!!!!! Honestly. I don't PvP myself because it is pointless. Oh yeah, I got a warlord badge, what does that prove? I can click random cards? Seriously. You can't come up with something better. As you stated "There's no real way to combat this, at least not in a reasonable amount of time,". The whole point of PvP is to make a strategy. Keep in mind, PvP is not meant to be easy. So all you PvP people that are complaining, I suggest you stop. There is no point in doing it and we ALL are tired of your whining.

-Nick level 100
"Child of Light and Shadow"

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
  1. Jade gear nerfing isn't needed, you can defeat it with proper planning.

  2. Your timers suggestion is a good idea. A time limit puts incentive pressure not to draw the match out, or else Diego will arbitrarily pick someone.

  3. I wouldn't mess with fleeing dynamics in a way that encourages it to happen more often. If anything, I'd actually prefer to discourage it, and create a new "Fight or Flight" tally showing how many times a player has fled, right next to Win/Loss count. People often flee so they can be anonymous and to escape criticism (mainly from themselves, but that's another can of worms!).

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2931
Nicholas Hawkspear on May 30, 2014 wrote:
You PvPers just can't settle for the best KI can do, can you? Let me remind you that PvP is not the only thing you can do in the game!!!!!!!! Honestly. I don't PvP myself because it is pointless. Oh yeah, I got a warlord badge, what does that prove? I can click random cards? Seriously. You can't come up with something better. As you stated "There's no real way to combat this, at least not in a reasonable amount of time,". The whole point of PvP is to make a strategy. Keep in mind, PvP is not meant to be easy. So all you PvP people that are complaining, I suggest you stop. There is no point in doing it and we ALL are tired of your whining.

-Nick level 100
"Child of Light and Shadow"
while i agree with the other posters that pvp needs a lot of work, i also agree with you that 1) pvp is not the only (or even most important) part of the game and 2) people are sick of the whining.

when they lose, most pvp'ers tend to get on their soapbox and cry about every, single spell used against them is overpowered. i'm like, come on, guys: you have the same tools as the rest of us do, and your decision not to use them is hardly my fault.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
MrFlin t on May 30, 2014 wrote:
Just wanted to congratulate KI on messing up pvp even more. Now the latest rage by trolls is to gear up in jade, trap the opponent a ton, spam heal, and let shadow spells kill their opponents. Takes forever, and there's no real way to combat this, at least not in a reasonable amount of time, and zero chance if you're stuck going second against them. So, good work KI, for giving us one more reason to wonder if it's really worth investing time and money in your product.

Solution 1: fire the guy who came up with jade gear, and fire the guy who refuses to at least make jade gear non-wearable in pvp. We know you have the programming capability to do this.

Solution 2: allow timers for normal pvp, not just tournaments. That way if players get caught in these awful, frustrating situations it's temporary.

Solution 3: don't penalize players fleeing matches.
Mr Flint,

There is a posting on just this issue, as only a Myth has a spell that counters this. Eric Stormbringer
has a suggestion, and lets hope that the spell is available for everyone.

Bring up a complaint like this is worth the time, ignore the people that complain that your
complaining. Complaints like this are needed, and really help the game long term.

Jade gear is hard to beat, but the best suggestion I have is increase your damage output,
use Cloak for Infection multiplication, use the fast reshuffle option, and stack multiple feints
and traps for a quick OHKO. Yes, they will use Guardian Spirit, but as long as you get Doom
up before the kill and then spam infection you got a chance. Use empower to keep the
Traps down to school only, and shield and weakness as much as possible.
Any delays is good, even using Black Mantel to slow them down.

Timers are not a bad idea, but the better idea is to figure out a way to beat them.
You need to (as I did) change your strategy to be ready for this type of player.
With the correct setup, you can beat them, you just have to realize what they are
and move fast as possible to set up and beat them.

I know how you feel on item #3, I often hated being penalize for fleeing early on.
The key is to be aggressive as possible and as fast as possible when facing this
type of player. You will not always have the right strategy to beat every player,
but you should be able to scare them with the right setup.

Finally, for those that say PVP is not the most important thing in the game,
guess what, I disagree.......

Explorer
Mar 29, 2010
75
The point to this is not advice on how to play; my rank is so high it is hard to get a match. My last three matches were against a balance, death and life, all in jade and all going first. They all use the new shadow spell and only place traps and use shatter. They don't let you set up the magical scenarios people keep posting. If first, there is a chance to win but will not be fast. I know I know what I'm talking about and quite frankly am somewhat shocked and dismayed at most of the responses in the two threads I have started. Makes me think KI has no plans or ability to address what should be concerns for every responsible parent.

The suggestion to fire people was tongue-in-cheek but what a disaster jade gear along with 100% healing boost has caused. Add to that the possibility of immunity and guardian wings being allowed to crit while also adhering to healing boosts and I just can't afford the time nor will I permit my children to engage in these types of matches.

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
598
*contracts Halston to build an automatic knicker-untwisted*

#BestIdeaEver

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
MrFlin t on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
The point to this is not advice on how to play; my rank is so high it is hard to get a match. My last three matches were against a balance, death and life, all in jade and all going first. They all use the new shadow spell and only place traps and use shatter. They don't let you set up the magical scenarios people keep posting. If first, there is a chance to win but will not be fast. I know I know what I'm talking about and quite frankly am somewhat shocked and dismayed at most of the responses in the two threads I have started. Makes me think KI has no plans or ability to address what should be concerns for every responsible parent.

The suggestion to fire people was tongue-in-cheek but what a disaster jade gear along with 100% healing boost has caused. Add to that the possibility of immunity and guardian wings being allowed to crit while also adhering to healing boosts and I just can't afford the time nor will I permit my children to engage in these types of matches.
"They don't let you set up the magical scenarios people keep posting"
I was unaware that Jade gear allowed me to control my opponent's deck.
If you cannot get good cards, perhaps the problem is within and not without.

Explorer
Mar 29, 2010
75
Robobot1747 on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
"They don't let you set up the magical scenarios people keep posting"
I was unaware that Jade gear allowed me to control my opponent's deck.
If you cannot get good cards, perhaps the problem is within and not without.
False logic. It was never said jade gear allows a person to control an opponent's deck, good grief. You get a player in jade gear who is FIRST and yes, it is much easier to control the flow of the game not because of the gear but because they are first (sighs). The gear slows things down and creates near impossible situations. These replies really really are troublesome.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
MrFlint, I believe it would help your case if you did more to help your credibility before suggesting a change of this magnitude. Perhaps start with telling us what gear are you using, what pet talents you have, and what cards you are packing? What is your typical strategy? What moves is the Jade wizard preventing you from doing? What are the stat levels of the Jade wizards you are typically dueling? Please understand, this forum sees a lot of "I can't win and I blame X" posts, and this information will help people understand that you know what you're talking about. (They might still disagree of course, but it won't be because they think you're inexperienced.)

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
MrFlin t on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
False logic. It was never said jade gear allows a person to control an opponent's deck, good grief. You get a player in jade gear who is FIRST and yes, it is much easier to control the flow of the game not because of the gear but because they are first (sighs). The gear slows things down and creates near impossible situations. These replies really really are troublesome.
When you state "near impossible Situations", I think of a Death, with Jade, the Guardian spell, bad juju, etc, and traps, that is first. Nearly impossible to beat, imo, unless you have this player in mind when you set up your deck.
Plus, you have years of experience in knowing how to rifle though your deck, moving at near the speed of light.

A strategy that I find very hard to beat, but the problem for me is, the time it takes to beat this setup.
For me, the time is the key, not the battle itself, as my time is very limited. Which is slowly forcing me away from the game, I once enjoyed so very much.

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
MrFlin t on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
False logic. It was never said jade gear allows a person to control an opponent's deck, good grief. You get a player in jade gear who is FIRST and yes, it is much easier to control the flow of the game not because of the gear but because they are first (sighs). The gear slows things down and creates near impossible situations. These replies really really are troublesome.
False logic. I was making fun of you. Yes, there is a first turn advantage, but that can be overcome. I agree that people who do nothing but tank are jerks, but again, just bring lots of piercing spells and infections/life dispels and you'll be fine. Jade gear has terrible offense, so if you can negate their healing and get through some of their resist, you're golden.

Explorer
Mar 29, 2010
75
Robobot1747 on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
False logic. I was making fun of you. Yes, there is a first turn advantage, but that can be overcome. I agree that people who do nothing but tank are jerks, but again, just bring lots of piercing spells and infections/life dispels and you'll be fine. Jade gear has terrible offense, so if you can negate their healing and get through some of their resist, you're golden.
Please read the whole scenario. The new shadow spells, or pets, whatever you want to call them, do not benefit from any damage boost except the shadow blade, pierce, and universal traps. This is why jade-geared players are using it. The amount of traps available far exceeds any school's ability to remove them (except myth, and to some extent death). And again, TIME is a big issue here. There are several threads and even a reply to this thread where people are pointing out these prolonged matches limit one's ability to compete in pvp. People who have families and real life responsibilities that don't allow for 3-4 hour matches are moving away from the game because of it.

Another poster asked what gear I was using. I use a combo of lvl 90+ crafted gear, Hades gear, and weapons from the packs and crown shop. I've experimented with lots of combos. If you go high damage and low resist, 50% resist from jade basically eliminates a 100% damage boost (puts you back to the damage value listed on the card) and makes you even easier to kill with the shadow spells. A lot of people have over 75% resist with their pets. You can do the math, it's ugly. If you go low damage and high resist like a jade, you pretty much reach a situation where neither person can kill (I popped in and out of a match like this a couple weeks ago, the two had been at it for 10 hours....one of the guys said he had zero attacks except for wand spells and a ton of reshuffles). I try to keep at least 10% pierce so I can do at least a little damage no matter what.

Another point on how people do not let 'magic' set-ups occur. A lot of very high ranking players are balance right now. If you try to use any aura spell, it will be removed. If you try using shrike for increased pierce, you will get black mantles (all schools have figured out how good the tc versions are, sadly) or dispels (made worse when going second). So it is very rare with two people who know what they are doing to have either person be able to set up the 'magic' scenarios as I call them. That's real life, not what theory says can happen.

Survivor
Apr 23, 2012
14
Aaaaaaaaaand then there are people who complain that shrike is too overpowered. Wow.

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
MrFlin t on Jun 9, 2014 wrote:
Please read the whole scenario. The new shadow spells, or pets, whatever you want to call them, do not benefit from any damage boost except the shadow blade, pierce, and universal traps. This is why jade-geared players are using it. The amount of traps available far exceeds any school's ability to remove them (except myth, and to some extent death). And again, TIME is a big issue here. There are several threads and even a reply to this thread where people are pointing out these prolonged matches limit one's ability to compete in pvp. People who have families and real life responsibilities that don't allow for 3-4 hour matches are moving away from the game because of it.

Another poster asked what gear I was using. I use a combo of lvl 90+ crafted gear, Hades gear, and weapons from the packs and crown shop. I've experimented with lots of combos. If you go high damage and low resist, 50% resist from jade basically eliminates a 100% damage boost (puts you back to the damage value listed on the card) and makes you even easier to kill with the shadow spells. A lot of people have over 75% resist with their pets. You can do the math, it's ugly. If you go low damage and high resist like a jade, you pretty much reach a situation where neither person can kill (I popped in and out of a match like this a couple weeks ago, the two had been at it for 10 hours....one of the guys said he had zero attacks except for wand spells and a ton of reshuffles). I try to keep at least 10% pierce so I can do at least a little damage no matter what.

Another point on how people do not let 'magic' set-ups occur. A lot of very high ranking players are balance right now. If you try to use any aura spell, it will be removed. If you try using shrike for increased pierce, you will get black mantles (all schools have figured out how good the tc versions are, sadly) or dispels (made worse when going second). So it is very rare with two people who know what they are doing to have either person be able to set up the 'magic' scenarios as I call them. That's real life, not what theory says can happen.
Gear gives 10% pierce.
Unstoppable enchanted attack gives 15% pierce. (25%)
School spear gives 10% pierce. (35%)
That's half the jade's resist.
Aura against a non-balance gives 20% (or if you're going first and don't mind getting blasted). Now we're at 55%.
If your jaded foe is unskilled and you think you can get away with Shrike, we're are 105% pierce. That'll cut through immunity.
If you have issues with universal or Death/Fire trap stacking, just use Empower or Immolate TC. Empower is about 3200 gold a pop, expensive but it will knock universal traps right off and give you more pips to boot. Or Cleanse Ward TC.
if you have an issue with dispels, try dispelling them first. Unbalance will stop something tricky like Black Mantle, and bring some of your school's dispels so he can't zap you with one in time. And if you use infallible, that will help counter Black Mantle.
There you go, plenty of countermoves for Jade gear.

Explorer
Mar 29, 2010
75
MrMark1337 on Jun 10, 2014 wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaand then there are people who complain that shrike is too overpowered. Wow.
Adults and parents are not complaining of shrike being too overpowered. The only ones complaining are the jade users who don't like losing immunity. Since real life matters, we're thrilled there's at least one way to counter to some extent jade gear and speed things up, although factoring in pets and other gear even with shrike a jade-clad player can still have close to 50% resist.