Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Jade needs A NERF.

AuthorMessage
Squire
Oct 29, 2011
586
Mr Talon on Dec 24, 2016 wrote:
So it's quite alright to call players who use a strategy you don't like trolls. However when someone tells you to stop crying on the message boards suddenly one must "learn to respect other people and treat them like they are living things". In the very same post no less....

priceless.
In what way does that have to do with jade and in what way does that paragraph even make one bit of sense. This thread is to discuss why jade needs a nerf. There is also never a time for someone to be rude to one person and in a way, that's what you're doing right now.

pricless.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Jade gear was the single biggest mistake this game made in terms of PvP and it is directly responsible for the extinction of first age and the hyper aggro meta of today.

That being said, Jade is nowhere near the problem it once was and it is far too late to nerf it. What should happen and is happening is that jade should gradually fade away. I am happy KI is allowing that to happen by not improving jade resist as levels increase.

Survivor
Jun 12, 2012
5
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 25, 2016 wrote:
Jade gear was the single biggest mistake this game made in terms of PvP and it is directly responsible for the extinction of first age and the hyper aggro meta of today.

That being said, Jade is nowhere near the problem it once was and it is far too late to nerf it. What should happen and is happening is that jade should gradually fade away. I am happy KI is allowing that to happen by not improving jade resist as levels increase.
Hi Eric Stormbringer :)

Explorer
Oct 12, 2012
79
PvP King on Dec 24, 2016 wrote:
Hopefully my connection doesn't die out again.. Anyway I outlined Counterforce as one of the many options players have to get around armor pierce, it wasn't meant to be the focal point of my message. Regardless, changing the bubble is good bait to get the Jade open without a shield since they'll spend a turn changing the bubble.

Dealing more damage than a Jade heals is extremely easy since we have 4 pip, 5 pip and 6 pip Shadow Enhanced Spells that all do far more damage than a Jade can heal. Not to mention you have a solid chance to get a critical hit through their resist and they can't even critical their heals. A Jade with high heal boost is greatly sacrificing critical block.

While dispel spam in an issue against even aggressive players and not Jade alone, you can easily counter by using 0 pip spells to give them a horrible pip exchange or use dispels of your own.

For Fortify, Shrike plus your base armor pierce makes that + Jade resist useless, and Infallible is still an option. Plus Balance gets Supernova to crush Jades easily.

To counter shields, every school in the game (except Storm & Balance; both schools that easily tear Jades apart) gets a DoT or a way to remove shields efficiently. Another method to get around them is to pack 2 minions in your deck. Not only are they amazing against Jades but they're great against schools that try to blade up and Shrike such as Ice. Just watch out for Icebird which will give them a positive pip exchange.

You never need more than 2 blades to take out a Jade when you're in Shrike and Enfeeble is nowhere near consistent enough to remove 2 blades every time you try to put them up.

Another good idea is to watch for what the Jade is using. Currently, a Jade will pack 7 max shields of any form. After they run out, they need to Reshuffle. Take advantage of this and use Feint TC into Shrike and your Shadow Enhanced Spell and you'll either OHKO or 2HKO the Jade without issue.

As I said, Jade is extremely easy to beat in this meta.
" A Jade with high heal boost is greatly sacrificing critical block." If only i had some pictures to prove you wrong about that.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Mr Talon on Dec 24, 2016 wrote:
I disagree with you on all jade users being in the sub-private ranks as I'm a warlord in this meta and I know a couple of life overlord jade users. I would guess because I am what eric stormbringer would classify in his 'how to' guide as an offensive angel. More specifically, I guess I would further define it as nova angel, as dark nova is my main way to defeat opponents, but I also carry other hits, blades and plenty of traps.

(Paging Eric Stormbringer. Would love to see the Dark Nova update to your "How to defeat angels" post).
I'll see if I can write a short piece on it when I get some time!

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
SanicTheHegFlame on Dec 25, 2016 wrote:
" A Jade with high heal boost is greatly sacrificing critical block." If only i had some pictures to prove you wrong about that.
Jades have much lower block than the average hyper aggro wizard. They're not using the Yvengy athames or the Duelist ring, not to mention they need to use specific mastery amulets so they lack the 80+ block rating that the Rasputin amulets give. The boots also give incredibly low block rating compared to the Darkmoor boots and the Jade robe block rating doesn't make up for it still. Their block rating is most likely around or less than 50% (not sure on the number), not nearly high enough to be consistent. The number may look high because their gear gives roughly the same amount of block added in small numbers, but the percentage is extremely low since they don't add up the same way.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
I wholeheartedly agree. If you're gonna play the turtle strategy, you should be forced to either opt for massive healing or massive resists. Not be able to have both.

Adrian, Prodigious Sorcerer
PVP Warlord (1329)

Astrologist
Dec 31, 2009
1085
Exabytes on Dec 29, 2016 wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree. If you're gonna play the turtle strategy, you should be forced to either opt for massive healing or massive resists. Not be able to have both.

Adrian, Prodigious Sorcerer
PVP Warlord (1329)
This is already true, most angels do not use a full set of jade gear because there is other gear that gives better heal boost, thus they do not have jade level resist. If you go strictly jade, your heal boost is not going to be high enough to compensate for the lack of damage you can do.

Explorer
Jan 27, 2013
95
The thing is guys, you all are correct. However Kingsisle also has PVE. Jades are one of the best things ever invented for PVE. And for PVP, there's always a way around an attack. They use virulent plague, plague and juju all at once? Use a dark pact or something. Cast Doom to prevent those heals, use entangle.... There are so many ways you can do this.

Explorer
Oct 12, 2012
79
Merfolura on Dec 30, 2016 wrote:
The thing is guys, you all are correct. However Kingsisle also has PVE. Jades are one of the best things ever invented for PVE. And for PVP, there's always a way around an attack. They use virulent plague, plague and juju all at once? Use a dark pact or something. Cast Doom to prevent those heals, use entangle.... There are so many ways you can do this.
If only what your saying actually was that easy when you do battle them. They may work on jades who are not that good but when its very high ranked at least for max lvl imo, it doesn't work that well. For Death sure they may be able to keep their dooms up. For other schools we would have to put in TC and if we run out of those TC rip doom and training them and filling up your main deck even more ( since it's max lvl i'm talking here) may cause even more problems for mostly when you end up fighting offensive players.

Again if only what you said was easier to do than to be said.

Defender
May 02, 2015
120
Solution that makes everyone happy:

Update the keeper's lore packs as levels continue to rise, but in the same way the level 110% update happened: Only slightly more health with no resist increase.

In PVE: For the future, KI, don't go crazy with mob and boss inherent pierce. Maybe a max of 15% pierce for mobs and 20 to 25% for regular run of the mill bosses. Keep these caps in mind as you move to Level 150 content. Maybe even cap it at that if you guys do manage to crank out a 4th arc. Natural pierce, while manageable now is a slippery slope if you don't check yourself. If I find myself with a total resist of, say 50% when questing, but minions pierce for 25 or 30% plus and bosses for 50% plus, what's even the point?

In PVP: Make sure to be giving us extra percent pierce jewels with our levels. I don't see many (if any) 7% pierce jewels walking around, and I know we don't have 8% pierce yet. This will let people further contend with jades: More pierce with levels while jades don't get anything "more" with levels aside from minimal health allowing other wizards to continually get the advantage on them.

Also (as much as I hate to say it because I REALLY like all of my darkmoor gear and really don't want to farm anything like that again as long as I live), give us another waterworks/tartarus/darkmoor with upgraded gear, including resist and pierce traits. The resist and pierce buffs will, in theory compete with one another but still be balanced. Like if my new "darkmoor" set has 45% total resist and 15% total pierce against a 40% total resist and 20% total pierce, that's balanced.

Meanwhile, jades will just sit there with their 62% resist while other builds become better suited to contend with them.

This is the best way to let Jade die on its own while still giving pve players the utility they paid for and allowing pvpers to have had their fun/money's worth trolling.

Explorer
Jun 17, 2011
73
Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
Jasmine3429 on Dec 30, 2016 wrote:
This is already true, most angels do not use a full set of jade gear because there is other gear that gives better heal boost, thus they do not have jade level resist. If you go strictly jade, your heal boost is not going to be high enough to compensate for the lack of damage you can do.
I didn't say they went strictly jade. Although 4 Jade items + 1 Healing Boost Ring + 1 Healing Boost Athame is Jade as far as I'm concerned.

And vice versa, we have 'Angel' players that just spam Sanctuary, TC Fortify, TC Tower Shield, etc. while having a maycast Fortify / Sanctuary pet with 15% Universal Resist + 10% Set School Resist + Set School Resist Jewels.

55 - 75% Universal Resist is not low. 71% - 84%, Incoming / Outgoing is not low. One can reach respectable resistances AND have massive self-healing. It is a fact. The school especially is known for this problem.

Off the top of my head, here is a build that achieves both:

Majoris Robe + Darkmoor Athame + Jade Hat + Jade Boots + Resist Pet + Ring of the Dying Star.

Besides, damage? You don't need damage when you can just shield-spam, stack 4 Blades + 2 / 3 Feints...eventually Shatter, Shrike, Spinysaur into Weaver...or just spam Guardian Angel with max TC reshuffles until your opponent runs out of cards.

If Enfeeble was a readily available TC, and all of the schools had a self-hit spell, many of the frustrating and anti-fun strategies that people employ to 'win' in PVP could be at least partially circumvented. But I digress.