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Jade is starting to overwhelm PvP it can be fixed

1
AuthorMessage
Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
Tonight I decided to do some PvP, and I got a Jade.
Second match, I got another Jade, a Storm next, and then on the forth I got another Jade.
After the last match, I decided to look at the players out front signing up, and guess what .....
Three more Jades, Duncan, Victoria and Allison (I didn't print the entire names).

Jades really drag out the game, and if it's a Jade Death, it's almost better to flee than waste the
time. You can't take the Jade gear away or make it no PvP, that would be unfair.

I have an easy way for KI to fix this, and I expect that it wouldn't take that much extra coding to do.

They currently base it off Skill and then Level... they just need to add one more piece to the puzzle.
Yep, you guess it, they can also split the players by resist, if your resist if 50 or below on
average, you go into one group, and if above 50 on average you go into the high resist group.

That way Jade would fight Jade, and the Jade empire would quickly get sick of fighting themselves.
It would drop the Jade empire almost overnight... it would be the best thing that could happen to the
pvp game imo. It would return the PvP matches and the Tournaments to fun, they way it should be.
The more skilled player would have a chance to win....... and not have to flee when they face 124
resist, etc. (No Joke, that is exactly the resist the player had to my school and 60 to all others).

Constructive Comments, a different idea, a logical reason you disagree?

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
Shrike and all the multiple piercing spells, auras, globals, spears are plenty enough to counter Jades already.

Champion
Aug 15, 2012
455
I don't think this would ever happen because if jade gear wasn't a big advantage, nobody would buy it anymore. KI makes money when people spend crowns trying to get the jade gear so why would they end it when more people are potentially going to buy it?
Sarai Thunderstrider
Legendary

Explorer
Jul 13, 2010
53
really? hmm.

well try facing a lvl 100 jade at lvl 61 going second -__-

they have 100 resist to storm and about 80 to myth.

even if we infallible, they not dumb, they going to shield and counter it.

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
The problem with removing or otherwise severely messing with Jade gear is that a lo5 of people have spent real money on this and there would be a riot if KI messed with it. We have Shrike and Infallible and Hades gear and all the other gear that people rage about, use that.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
The matching algorithm needs work, I agree with you on that point. I'm not sure about a hardline parameter like resist >50% vs. resist <50% though. Seems unfair to crafted Ice, since they will get clumped in with Jades.

Plus, we'd essentially be saying we're going to treat Jades as they they are exploiting the game (and yeah, they sort of are). The problem with that though is that KI is making serious money on this particular exploit, and there are a lot of Jade stakeholders who might be upset by changes to the current PvP win-insurance racket they're running.

I just don't know if we have the best possible solution on the table yet. But each time someone gets brave and makes a suggestion like you, I feel like we get closer.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
What am I supposed to be? Help your case or something? No. But I can help.

Jade was meant for usually being a tank. If you stack enough jade, you will have 100 resist.
That's immune to everything. Then you just pass for a while till he runs out of cards.

Here's how you counter jade.

Feint, blade, trap.

Spear, shrike, infallible.

gg.

Mastermind
Jul 26, 2011
304
PlayHard101 on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
What am I supposed to be? Help your case or something? No. But I can help.

Jade was meant for usually being a tank. If you stack enough jade, you will have 100 resist.
That's immune to everything. Then you just pass for a while till he runs out of cards.

Here's how you counter jade.

Feint, blade, trap.

Spear, shrike, infallible.

gg.
I highly doubt Jades can get Immunity. The highest a Level 100 Jade can get is in the 90's with all the Jade Resist, 15 universal pet resist, and 3 of the high school resist talents on a pet, and a Khrysalis crafted Ring. But anyways yeah Feint, Blade, Spear, Shrike, Wand for the extra pierce, Infallible, and possibly the 4 pip global if available.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
PlayHard101 on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
What am I supposed to be? Help your case or something? No. But I can help.

Jade was meant for usually being a tank. If you stack enough jade, you will have 100 resist.
That's immune to everything. Then you just pass for a while till he runs out of cards.

Here's how you counter jade.

Feint, blade, trap.

Spear, shrike, infallible.

gg.
All lvl 100 Jade plus a max stat Proof / Defy pet still isn't immune to all. Only 82%.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
PlayHard101 on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
What am I supposed to be? Help your case or something? No. But I can help.

Jade was meant for usually being a tank. If you stack enough jade, you will have 100 resist.
That's immune to everything. Then you just pass for a while till he runs out of cards.

Here's how you counter jade.

Feint, blade, trap.

Spear, shrike, infallible.

gg.
PlayHard101,

How is that to work, when you have a dozen Bad JuJu's on your head?
Plus, my Balance has no way to do that to a Death, who can empower and
bad Juju. Maybe those that have Ice or other schools can do that, but
not my Balance at level 100.

Even one hit kills are not always valid against a Life that has over 100%
heal boost, when the Guardian is set for a critical heal.

This idea is not that unreasonable, if they kept all schools at maybe 50 and
allowed Ice to have an average resist of 65. I think the guy that started this
post is Ice, so he may not have wanted to promote Ice or something.

I agree, this may not be valid, cause KI wants to sell Jade, but is selling Jade
more important than improving the game.

In 2011 KI made huge profits from this game (as I remember the CEO stating
the highest ROI in the MMORPG industry). Their lead Sales Regional back in 2012
stated that they made over 400% profit from this game that year. These comments
are listed in articles on the web, that you can look up.
I have not looked up the profit that they made in 2013, but I expect that it's very good.
Based on the income that KI is making, plus the expansion in China (another huge
market for this game that rivals the United States), I think they could lose Jades
pack sales, improve the game, and still make huge profits.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
I agree completely. Earlier today, and for the past week, I have been fighting Jade wizards who were "watching the queue" and set up to have almost 130% resist to my school. I'm Balance so Spectral Blast and Chimera are an option, but when you have no spells to take out Elemental or Spirit based shields, it's hard to strike with those spells. My opponent, probably laughing at me and daring me to use Supernova, used Fortify even when I'm a Balance wizard. I did use it, it took the aura away, but did 0% damage even with an Infallible up. He eventually wiped my health out with Dark Nova and I did a total of 0 damage on him from first.. hooray?

Now, the other issue is Bad Juju. I'm not a fan of this spell at all. Combo that up with Cloak and a Balance Mastery Amulet, and you have yourself a free win. I think that Bad Juju shouldn't be cloakable and that Jade wizards should only be able to fight opponents with their amount of resist, or have Jade gear disallowed in 1v1 but only allowed in team PvP.

Historian
Aug 18, 2011
658
Jade was a huge problem for PvP for a while. It is much less so now that high pierce gear and Shrike have been added. Jade has some legit uses for PvE, so I am against nerfing or eliminating it, but high resists should be taken into account for matching.

"Watching the queue" is broader problem, and one that should be addressed. IMO that is outright cheating and should be made impossible. Jade or not, if your opponent knows what to expect & can preset for it, he or she has an unfair advantage.

Cloaked Juju causes other problems. I wouldn't mind that going away. Actually Cloak in general is a mess.

Survivor
Apr 27, 2011
17
I don't think your suggestion about removing jade or same resist queue match up thing won't even be considered.

There are many ways to counter act jade, use your head, and i wanna mention that jades are most vulnerable when they decide to attack with shadow. Seriously guys don't complain. Think outside the box. I beat jades easy with one of my strategies which is by not letting them reshuffle. Use tc to counter act jades if you have to, one thing is for certain that complaining won't help.

If you really need help just come find me in pvp lobby or 1v1 matches, the name is ArturBattle.

Survivor
Apr 05, 2010
24
Jade allows the defense to 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 teams.... People tend to forget that PvP its more then 1v1. It allows new play forms like Death Jade, Life Jade even Balance Jade. Removing jade or putting it into this rediculous form will lessen the depth of PvP.... Everyone goes back to hades spam and storm can cut trough everything as nobody has defense. Besides there is level 100 people that have above 53% defense themselves without jade... you didnt think of that apparently as you will put them with the jades as well. This is a terrible plan, created by someone that is obviously unable to win a battle from any jade ever.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Noah Shadowweaver on Jul 8, 2014 wrote:
Jade allows the defense to 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 teams.... People tend to forget that PvP its more then 1v1. It allows new play forms like Death Jade, Life Jade even Balance Jade. Removing jade or putting it into this rediculous form will lessen the depth of PvP.... Everyone goes back to hades spam and storm can cut trough everything as nobody has defense. Besides there is level 100 people that have above 53% defense themselves without jade... you didnt think of that apparently as you will put them with the jades as well. This is a terrible plan, created by someone that is obviously unable to win a battle from any jade ever.
Noah,
I guess you like to jump to conclusions based on what posting, as you have missed what is being stated. To begin with, I think this conversation was started about 1v1, at least, that is the way I read the first post. I see no where in the first post that says anything about 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4. He does not say anything about jumping into a match with friends.
I see no way that it lessens the Depth of PVP, in any way. Let those that want three hour or more time frame matches to battle each other. Let the rest of us that don’t have four or five hours to be in a match, battle at a faster pace. You see, that is what this posting is about, imo, it’s some people have limited time to play this game.
More and more Jades are coming into the game, and at higher levels. You may have 40 hours for this game on the weekend, but many of us do not. Plus, let me ask, how many level 1500 Jade Death have you fought, by the way?
Now, how many level 100 are 53 resist, I find very, very few. Either they are Jade or they are at 42 resist or lower.
Finally, lets put you posting to the test, since you are obviously able to beat any Jade that shows up. I have a lower level death, level 90. I have old Jade gear at level 80, that I used on my storm in PvE.
I will put on the jade gear, and crafted rings, pack in the Virulent Plague and Bad JuJu, heals and shields and battle you. Lets see how fast you can take me down, as I will have no Shadow magic. I mean after all, you are the best in the game, I expect, based on your posting. So tell me what realm, where to meet, what day and time to meet you?

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
Then add more, haters.

@Veracity:
Put a cleanse in your deck. Its THAT simple.

@Megan & Seethe:
Add a Heartsteel and the Amulet of Divine Influence. That gave me 100% percent.

Close enough, there are way more strategies to cover Jade. Just get a bunch of pierce, and that will cover.

It works for me.

And look at what PVP King said. He said he was facing a balance with almost 130 resist to his school.

I agree with PVP King that it is possible.

Another strategy.

Try to figure out what school your opponent is.

Quickly change your gear so you can cover 100% resist to that school.

Your stats will be guaranteed terrible, but its still nice to have immunity to that school.
You can pass the entire game until he/she runs out of cards.

That's it. I'm out.
PlayHard101

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Artur Battle on Jul 8, 2014 wrote:
I don't think your suggestion about removing jade or same resist queue match up thing won't even be considered.

There are many ways to counter act jade, use your head, and i wanna mention that jades are most vulnerable when they decide to attack with shadow. Seriously guys don't complain. Think outside the box. I beat jades easy with one of my strategies which is by not letting them reshuffle. Use tc to counter act jades if you have to, one thing is for certain that complaining won't help.

If you really need help just come find me in pvp lobby or 1v1 matches, the name is ArturBattle.
Yes, having Jades use Dark Nova or any Shadow spell is their "weak point" in a match, but not in the higher ranks. Once you rank up to even 1400+, Jades start getting smarter. They pack Stun Blocks, they use attacks that deal damage and set up a boost (increasing their own damage and reducing backlash), and do something that many people consider cheating called "watching the queue." They set up for your school, use a pet that resists your school, and so on. You can't have a dispel for every school in your deck, so Dark Nova is going to get you at some point. Shrike doesn't work well if they shield (I was first against a Jade with 125% Balance resist, I used Shrike but Tower Shield absorbed it all and Counterforce was constantly being replaced by Sanctuary). There are just some strategies that are impossible to defeat or are extremely time consuming, and that's not what most players want from a game.

Survivor
May 02, 2014
38
PlayHard101 on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
What am I supposed to be? Help your case or something? No. But I can help.

Jade was meant for usually being a tank. If you stack enough jade, you will have 100 resist.
That's immune to everything. Then you just pass for a while till he runs out of cards.

Here's how you counter jade.

Feint, blade, trap.

Spear, shrike, infallible.

gg.
It not that easy you know

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
PlayHard101 on Jul 8, 2014 wrote:
Then add more, haters.

@Veracity:
Put a cleanse in your deck. Its THAT simple.

@Megan & Seethe:
Add a Heartsteel and the Amulet of Divine Influence. That gave me 100% percent.

Close enough, there are way more strategies to cover Jade. Just get a bunch of pierce, and that will cover.

It works for me.

And look at what PVP King said. He said he was facing a balance with almost 130 resist to his school.

I agree with PVP King that it is possible.

Another strategy.

Try to figure out what school your opponent is.

Quickly change your gear so you can cover 100% resist to that school.

Your stats will be guaranteed terrible, but its still nice to have immunity to that school.
You can pass the entire game until he/she runs out of cards.

That's it. I'm out.
PlayHard101
Adding Amulet of Divine Influence and Heartsteel (which I already included in the 82) still only gives 85% not 100%. Ice Jade can go slightly higher, but you can't get 100% universal resist from gear/pet alone.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
PlayHard101 on Jul 8, 2014 wrote:
Then add more, haters.

@Veracity:
Put a cleanse in your deck. Its THAT simple.

@Megan & Seethe:
Add a Heartsteel and the Amulet of Divine Influence. That gave me 100% percent.

Close enough, there are way more strategies to cover Jade. Just get a bunch of pierce, and that will cover.

It works for me.

And look at what PVP King said. He said he was facing a balance with almost 130 resist to his school.

I agree with PVP King that it is possible.

Another strategy.

Try to figure out what school your opponent is.

Quickly change your gear so you can cover 100% resist to that school.

Your stats will be guaranteed terrible, but its still nice to have immunity to that school.
You can pass the entire game until he/she runs out of cards.

That's it. I'm out.
PlayHard101
PlayHard101,

Put a Cleanse in my sidedeck, one cleanse would allow me to win? Wow, if only I had thought of that
before I wasted 3 hours and 3 minutes in my last Jade battle.

The last Jade Death I played had put 8 bad juju, 8 Vit plag, 6 weakness on me before the first reshuffle.
After the first reshuffle, the Cloaked increased the Bad Juju by 6, since I was not able to get the cards that
I needed to take him out. There were regular cards, not to mention what he was pulling from his TC side.
Not to mention the Tower shields and TC tower he was placing on himself every few rounds.
Plus he had four Balance Dis-spells on me that I had to take care of, plus the infection.

If I had known that one Cleanse would take care of all of that.... well now I know. Thanks.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
Veracity8 on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
PlayHard101,

How is that to work, when you have a dozen Bad JuJu's on your head?
Plus, my Balance has no way to do that to a Death, who can empower and
bad Juju. Maybe those that have Ice or other schools can do that, but
not my Balance at level 100.

Even one hit kills are not always valid against a Life that has over 100%
heal boost, when the Guardian is set for a critical heal.

This idea is not that unreasonable, if they kept all schools at maybe 50 and
allowed Ice to have an average resist of 65. I think the guy that started this
post is Ice, so he may not have wanted to promote Ice or something.

I agree, this may not be valid, cause KI wants to sell Jade, but is selling Jade
more important than improving the game.

In 2011 KI made huge profits from this game (as I remember the CEO stating
the highest ROI in the MMORPG industry). Their lead Sales Regional back in 2012
stated that they made over 400% profit from this game that year. These comments
are listed in articles on the web, that you can look up.
I have not looked up the profit that they made in 2013, but I expect that it's very good.
Based on the income that KI is making, plus the expansion in China (another huge
market for this game that rivals the United States), I think they could lose Jades
pack sales, improve the game, and still make huge profits.
How is that to work if 12 bad juju's damage base is 2280?. If your doing the angel strategy, that is not gonna work at all. I do not think that the user would put 12 bad jujus, because it would deal mass to the user, not the opponent. Though Bad Juju is funny when you go first. Put it on your opponent when they use a tc triton. Good times. I was immune to that.

Oh, and by the way. My balance has 100% to anything it faces. If it faces Fire, got that covered.
Facing Ice? Got that covered. Facing any possible threat, I got that covered.

Oh, and seethe, you forgot proof. You said "defy pet."

Never said anything about proof...

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
PvP King on Jul 7, 2014 wrote:
I agree completely. Earlier today, and for the past week, I have been fighting Jade wizards who were "watching the queue" and set up to have almost 130% resist to my school. I'm Balance so Spectral Blast and Chimera are an option, but when you have no spells to take out Elemental or Spirit based shields, it's hard to strike with those spells. My opponent, probably laughing at me and daring me to use Supernova, used Fortify even when I'm a Balance wizard. I did use it, it took the aura away, but did 0% damage even with an Infallible up. He eventually wiped my health out with Dark Nova and I did a total of 0 damage on him from first.. hooray?

Now, the other issue is Bad Juju. I'm not a fan of this spell at all. Combo that up with Cloak and a Balance Mastery Amulet, and you have yourself a free win. I think that Bad Juju shouldn't be cloakable and that Jade wizards should only be able to fight opponents with their amount of resist, or have Jade gear disallowed in 1v1 but only allowed in team PvP.
What about Cloak being x1 in PVP, just like like Reshuffle has been changed to?
Once used, they are gone.... I think this could help a great deal with all the bugs in
PvP with Cloak. Plus it would cut down the huge advantage the Jades currently have
with loading the side deck with Reshuffles, etc.

All of a sudden, the constant super fast discard and reshuffle would be a thing of the past, after
the first reshuffle was done.

Any thoughts about Cloak being converted to this format?

Plus, I agree, Bad Juju or Virt Plag should not be cloakable.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
Veracity8 on Jul 9, 2014 wrote:
What about Cloak being x1 in PVP, just like like Reshuffle has been changed to?
Once used, they are gone.... I think this could help a great deal with all the bugs in
PvP with Cloak. Plus it would cut down the huge advantage the Jades currently have
with loading the side deck with Reshuffles, etc.

All of a sudden, the constant super fast discard and reshuffle would be a thing of the past, after
the first reshuffle was done.

Any thoughts about Cloak being converted to this format?

Plus, I agree, Bad Juju or Virt Plag should not be cloakable.
Why shouldn't Virt Plag be cloakable? Heck, you can easily figure out what it is.

If you heal and its pretty darn low, its the mass infect.
If you damage and its lower, its a plag or a virt plag.

Oh, by the way. Your going way over the topic. Were supposed to be talking about Jade Gear, not cloak.

That's it. I'm out.

PS:
Use the spell, (like shatter, enfeelble, etc.) for the one that removes Negative Charms! That would cut the time down by 7/8 of the fight.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
PlayHard101 on Jul 9, 2014 wrote:
How is that to work if 12 bad juju's damage base is 2280?. If your doing the angel strategy, that is not gonna work at all. I do not think that the user would put 12 bad jujus, because it would deal mass to the user, not the opponent. Though Bad Juju is funny when you go first. Put it on your opponent when they use a tc triton. Good times. I was immune to that.

Oh, and by the way. My balance has 100% to anything it faces. If it faces Fire, got that covered.
Facing Ice? Got that covered. Facing any possible threat, I got that covered.

Oh, and seethe, you forgot proof. You said "defy pet."

Never said anything about proof...
PlayHard101,

Bad JuJu is 300 damage per use, therefore 12 of them would damage the player for 3600.
Remember, they have 82 percent resist, so they are only doing about 720 damage.
That is how it works, and even if they did do 2000 damage, that is taken care of in one heal.

Just like I told Noah, you gotta face these guys a few times to realize just how hard it is to
take them down. Setting up your deck to face the majority of players, and then running into a
Jade Death is a different world. If you set up for a Jade Death, then it hurts your chances of beating
a fast pace Fire or Storm. It 's like being between a rock and a hard place, which do you choose.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
Veracity8 on Jul 10, 2014 wrote:
PlayHard101,

Bad JuJu is 300 damage per use, therefore 12 of them would damage the player for 3600.
Remember, they have 82 percent resist, so they are only doing about 720 damage.
That is how it works, and even if they did do 2000 damage, that is taken care of in one heal.

Just like I told Noah, you gotta face these guys a few times to realize just how hard it is to
take them down. Setting up your deck to face the majority of players, and then running into a
Jade Death is a different world. If you set up for a Jade Death, then it hurts your chances of beating
a fast pace Fire or Storm. It 's like being between a rock and a hard place, which do you choose.
Excuse me. For your information, the bad juju does MORE.

1